Subject: [Int-area] Access to 802.16 Archives

From: Bernard Aboba <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:38:37 -0700 (PDT)

A question has arisen about access to the IEEE 802.16 archives. 

The Chair of 802.16, Roger Marks, has granted archive access 
to participants in IETF,  in order to enable review of IEEE 802.16e.  If 
you would like access to the archive, please contact me in email. 

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

---

From: Tim Shepard <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:36:36 -0400

> you would like access to the archive, please contact me in email. 

Please make any documets which are to be discussed within the IETF
*publicly* available.  I believe it is innappropriate to discuss
documents within the IETF which are not publicly available.  They
should be at least as available as Internet drafts are.

If needed, write down in your own words what is needed for the
discussion and submit it as an Internet draft.

(Under what conditions exactly is Roger Marks proposing to make these
documents available?  For example, would I be able to share them with
collegues and potential collaborators, students, customers, and
friends I have technical conversations with, etc?  Why cannot they
simply be made publicly available?)

			-Tim Shepard
			 [email-masked]

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From: Bernard Aboba <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:28:57 -0700 (PDT)

> Please make any documents which are to be discussed within the IETF
> *publicly* available.  

The IEEE 802.16 specification, like other IEEE 802 standards, is publicly 
available through the "Get IEEE 802 Program".  See:

http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.16.html

> I believe it is innappropriate to discuss

I agree.  Looking over the IP over 802.16 BOF description, it appears that 
the BOF organizers have provided public specifications. 

> discussion and submit it as an Internet draft.

Since I'm not involved in the BOF, I'm afraid I can't do that :)

> simply be made publicly available?)

The IEEE 802.16 standards are publicly available (see above).  Roger has 
also provided access to the archives, which include proposals, works in 
progress, etc.  As far as I know, there is no problem with sharing the 
documents.

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From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 02:45:09 +0200

> progress, etc.  As far as I know, there is no problem with sharing the

Bernard is actually one of the "right people" to tell me if I'm 
MISunderstanding, but my understanding is that the IEEE handles their "work 
in progress" by making it available to people who are interested in the work 
as work in progress, but not putting it up for unlimited downloading until 
it is approved.

I've only had experience with IEEE 802.1, 802.3, 802.11, and 802.17, but the 
chairs of each of these groups has been THRILLED to provide access 
information to anyone who was planning to read it and either (1) comment 
back to IEEE, or (2) work on IP mappings, SNMP MIB bindings, etc. based on 
their work-in-progress (with the understanding, of course, that current 
dtafts have no more standing in IEEE 802 than they have in IETF working 
groups).

So, IEEE 802 seems to be a tiny bit less "open" than the IETF, when it comes 
to "work in progress", but when a completed standard is added to the 
http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/, it's available for free download by 
anyone, just like an RFC. I've worked with "closed" standards 
groups/industry consortia ("please deposit $30K to see this spec"), and IEEE 
isn't one of the "closed" ones.

Of course, we handle OUR "work in progress" by insisting that it disappears 
if it wasn't updated or improved in six months, so there are different ways 
to solve the problem...

Spencer

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From: Bernard Aboba <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT)

After some investigation, it would appear that there are WiMax Forum 
documents relevant to the IP over 802.16 BOF which are not being made 
available to the IETF community. 

I would like to express my concern about this. 

For example: 

1. WiMax Forum has a Mobility profiles document that requires IPv4 
encapsulation over the "raw IP" sublayer, but does not address IPv6 
support:

http://www.wimaxforum.org/apps/org/workgroup/211ghz/download.php/3514/Mobile%20WiMAX%20Profile%20Submission%20Combined_September%2012%202005-MAC-Stat_v4%20MAC%20session%20result%20.zip

2. The WiMax forum meeting minutes discuss issues relating to IP
encapsulation support, such as support for the Ethernet Convergence 
Sublayer: 

http://www.wimaxforum.org/apps/org/workgroup/211ghz/download.php/3830/Sep%202005%20FtF%20Minutes.zip

Since the WiMax Forum has authored documents relating to IP encapsulation 
over 802.16 that are not being made available to the BOF participants,  
it would appear to me that the requirement for public specifications is not 
being met, even if all the relevant 802.16 specifications have been made available.