Subject: RE: why market picked up NATs [Re: Writeups on why RFC1918 is bad?]

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:41:14 -0700

Thomas,

> Thomas Narten wrote:
> If you are residential user, try finding a home router
> that is actually a Real Router. I've come to the
> unfortunate conclusion that they no longer exist.

The $40 router never existed. Get real, there is no way to support Joe
Blow configuring a router if it sells for $40.

There are dual-ethernet products such as the Netopia R910 ($170) that do
what you are looking for. There also are several sub-$100 boxes, none of
them I could recommend because the manufacturer will likely tank before
the end of the year. And if you want a real firewall you still have to
spend a mighty $350 for a SonicWall.

> I had been living in bliss

A too common problem within the IETF. Maybe it would be useful for some
people here to actually get out in the real world.

> Given the current feature/functionaliy/price point reality
> of home routers, getting them to implement reasonable
> functionality as an IPv6 router seems like it will be a
> rather hard sell. :-(

It's impossible to deliver because of supportability issues.
Technically, the code could be embedded in a $40 box, nobody wants to do
that though because it will take $300 to cover support calls.

Michel.

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From: Eliot Lear <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:57:52 -0700

DING DING.... IPv4-0-Meter just went off.

Why is this an issue in v6-land, assuming you can get a v6 consumer 
networking device?

Eliot

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From: Måns Nilsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:38:24 +0200

> people here to actually get out in the real world.

We more typically escape to bliss, at a cost, because we've seen what the
Consumer-grade "Internet" is, and want none of it. 

I have a small-business-grade DSL at home, costing around 5 times as much
as consumer (and that is with the discaount!), but I get a /27 and RFC2317
style delegation. It is bliss, but it should not be exceptional, it should
be the norm -- because it is immensely empowering. I want my fellow humans
to feel that, too, which is why I'm fighting for it. 

-- 
Måns Nilsson            Systems Specialist
+46 70 681 7204         KTHNOC  MN1334-RIPE

We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead.