Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-bradner-author-contributors-00.txt

From: [email-masked] (Scott Bradner)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 08:11:29 -0400 (EDT)

I just published this ID as a (belated) follow up to the IPR WG session
at the last IETF meeting.

The ID proposes that the IETF obtain from contributors the right to
authorize the development of derivative works anywhere (as was suggested
by Sam  Hartman) - note that this proposal does not address when & how
such authorization would be done - it only gets the ability to do such
authorization from the contributors.

I've already received a suggestion (from Chuck Adams) that the IETF
should get the right to use, within the IETF standards process, any
derivative works developed outside the IETF.  

I think this is a good idea but I think that a requirement for that
should go in a different section of a revised RFC 3978 since this
paragraph is in a section requesting rights from contributors.

Another ID following up on the IPR WG session should be published very
soon now (submitted last night) that addresses the issue of making
extracts of RFCs for documentation, help pages etc.

Scott

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From: "todd glassey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:55:53 -0700

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Bradner" <[email-masked]>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-bradner-author-contributors-00.txt

> authorization from the contributors.

But there are those that dont want to give blanket authorizations or maybe
cannot. This is a serious problem with the release process since there still
is no way of assuring that the person submitting the media has the right to
do and once public disclosure is done, there is no possibly way back to that
same status of being protectable everywhere per se.

> derivative works developed outside the IETF.

This also essentially makes the IETF opensource and would have to be applied
to all in place RFC's and ID's filed as well - I dont see the pre-rule
filers granting this to the IETF without a fight.

> paragraph is in a section requesting rights from contributors.

I dont believe that it is reasonable to change the derivative rights rules
now since it puts everyone submitting a process for standardization in a
less favorable slot than someone several years ago doing the same thing.
The IETF may have a right to change its processes at any time but not in a
manner that is adversarial to those in the program relative to some earlier
metric.

> extracts of RFCs for documentation, help pages etc.

ID's and RFC's still need use descriptions of the technologies being
designed as well. The same arguments apply.

Todd

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From: Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:30:39 +0200

> paragraph is in a section requesting rights from contributors.

I think that may be a bad idea, depending on what you mean by "right
to use".  The problem is if the legal entity of IETF goes rough, with
the above idea, the rough IETF may end up "owning" derivative works
developed elsewhere.  It would be better if the rights needed by the
IETF to use the work were granted to everyone ("third parties").  Then
there would be no central control, and what happens with the legal
entity IETF is not a concern.

Exactly what rights do you want to grant the IETF for derivative works
done outside of the IETF?  Cannot those rights be granted to everyone?

> extracts of RFCs for documentation, help pages etc.

Looking forward to it!

Thanks,
Simon

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From: "todd glassey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:41:57 -0700

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Josefsson" <[email-masked]>
To: "Scott Bradner" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-bradner-author-contributors-00.txt

> developed elsewhere.

Especially with no members or methods of transferring these rights - this
also may force people to demand that the IETF actually put in place all of
the systems the boilerplate talks about PRIOR to these changes being made to
the IPR processes so that the playing field is actually level instead of
what it is today - a Good Ole Boys Club IMHO.

> It would be better if the rights needed by the

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From: Scott W Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:25:35 -0400

> at the last IETF meeting.

Unless I'm misreading the new paragraph ...

s/in addition to translations/including translations/

s/or to authorize/and to authorize/

The last sentence is not a sentence.

> paragraph is in a section requesting rights from contributors.

I agree with Jorge that it would be hard to define and administer.

swb