Subject: [iucg] terminology

From: jefsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:49:31 +0200

Dear IUsers,
Barry Leiba, WG/APPSAWG Chair has sent the following most important 
mail for us:

>"Paul Hoffman and John Klensin have undertaken to update RFC 3536, 
>which specified terminology for use in internationalization-related 
>documents and discussions.  The editors, appsawg chairs, and 
>Applications Area directors think the document needs broad review, 
>and propose to make it an appsawg document.
>You can find the document here:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoffman-rfc3536bis/
>The editors will soon submit an updated version, and await a 
>decision on accepting the document into appsawg before doing 
>that.  We ask that anyone with a stake in internationalization 
>review the current version and state any objections to making this 
>an appsawg document by 29 April.
>You may, or course, also send comments on the document at this point 
>to the editors and/or the apps-discuss list.  Remember that there 
>are changes queued, so you might bring up points that they're 
>already planning to change/correct.
>The reply-to on this message is set to the apps-discuss list 
><[email-masked]>.  Please put all responses and discussion there.

This terminology is obviously going to be the mutual understanding 
bridge between the IETF and the IUTF communities. 
http://iucg.org/wiki/Wiki_RFC_3536bis is the traditional wiki working 
transcript (unfinished as yet) of the proposed draft.

This is in line with my own I_D on orthotypography: 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iucg-idna2008-orthotypography-00

I suggest thet our target should be :

1. to make sure RFC 3536bis by APPSAWG is in line with our own 
understanding of the terms in our own working contexts (IDNA2008, 
ML-DNS, IUI, EST).
2. to build our own Internet extension section to document in a 
similar manner the emergent IUse terminology. This section should not 
document any concept than the way we read and use the  existing 
"Internal Internet" technology (i.e. no bit change).
3. to continue building in contnuity our own dictionnary of the new 
IUI and Intersem (semiotic/semantic Intercomprehension network) stratum.

Best.
jfc

NB: due to personal constraints that should now progressively reduce 
I was not able to sustain my post-IDNA2008 endeavour as I planned it. 
Some terminology used in this mail is not therefore as common and 
supported by operational prototypes as our little group hoped. Thank 
you to read the used acronyms/terms as follows:

- IDNA2008: as documented by RFC 5890 to 5895
- ML-DNS: multilayer DNS (of which layer 1 is the Internal Internet 
DNS, layer 2 is IDNA2008).
- IUI: Intelligent Use Interface (Internet Use Interface from an 
Internet perspective). i.e. a generalization of principle introduced 
by Paul Hoffman and Pete Resnick in RFC 5895 and a stable optional 
response to problems discussed by the IAB in RFC 6055
- IUse: an emergent community interested in an open general 
Intelligent Use of the world digital ecosystem (whatever the 
multitechnological convergence).
- EST: Extended System Theory, a glogalization of the General System 
Theory which includes networking and interfaces and is necessary to 
better read the IETF RFCs in an IUse perspective.
- IUTF: Intelligent Use Task Force, TF under formation further to the 
responses to the appeals to IESG and IAB following the successfull, 
but not documented yet as such, introduction of the principle of 
subsidiarity (IDNA2008) as the third internet architectural principle 
(RFC 1958: principle of permanent change, RFC 3439: principle of 
simplicity). I note that subsidiairity should come with suppleance (I 
did not found so far an English equivalent for the core to support 
peripheral difficulties) and precaution.
- Dictionnary (http://iucg.org/wiki/Dictionnary): this IUCG project 
to integrate digital ecosystem convergence and ALFA (Free Acrchitecture) words.

---

From: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 08:31:36 -0400

(top post) 

Jefsey,

Thanks.  The notice was already forward to a few other lists,
which I hope I have trimmed.   Any discussion of the
appropriateness of doing this should continue on the
apps-discuss list, as requested by Barry, and not cross-posted.
I would prefer that any substantive comments be deferred until
after AppsAWG makes a decision about discussion venue and then
sent to their list (if they decide to take the document on).  In
the interim, substantive or editorial comments may be sent to
Paul and myself at [email-masked] if
needed.  Neither he nor I have time to track multiple lists for
comments so comments to random lists, or long distribution lists
are likely to get lost -- please, everyone, don't do a multiple
posting and then complain that your comments were lost.

Substantive comment for planning purposes: Whether it ends up
being posted as draft-ietf-appsawg-rfc3536bis-00 or as
draft-hoffman-rfc3536bis-02 (with the version after that posted
as draft-ietf-appsawg-rfc3536-00), the main substantive change
between that version and the current draft-hoffman-rfc3536bis-01
will be the addition of an extended description of the term
"variant" (used in domain name contexts).  Wisely or not, the
use of that term in various context has been expanded
significantly beyond the definition in RFC 3743.   Those whose
work involves that term, or notions of "equivalence" in domain
names, will want to look at the description carefully.  Each new
version of course also includes a selection of editorial
improvements and less significant fixes.

     john

p.s. I note that the "the traditional wiki working transcript"
referred to in your note contains several significant errors and
that we are unlikely to be able to have a useful discussion or
incorporate changes based on that version.   I strongly suggest
that people use
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoffman-rfc3536bis/ as the
relevant discussion/ reading version instead.

--On Thursday, April 21, 2011 13:49 +0200 jefsey
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> Dear IUsers,
> Barry Leiba, WG/APPSAWG Chair has sent the following most
> important mail for us:
> 
>> "Paul Hoffman and John Klensin have undertaken to update RFC
>> 3536,  which specified terminology for use in
>> internationalization-related  documents and discussions.  The
>> editors, appsawg chairs, and  Applications Area directors
>> think the document needs broad review,  and propose to make
>> it an appsawg document.
>> that.  We ask that anyone with a stake in
>> internationalization  review the current version and state
>> any objections to making this  an appsawg document by 29
>> April.
>> You may, or course, also send comments on the document at
>> this point  to the editors and/or the apps-discuss list.
>> Remember that there  are changes queued, so you might bring
>> up points that they're  already planning to change/correct.
> This terminology is obviously going to be the mutual
> understanding bridge between the IETF and the IUTF
> communities.

>...