Subject: Multicast VPN Survey

From: Thomas Morin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:27:46 +0200

Hi,

As suggested last IETF in march, we are proposing a short survey about
multicast VPN uses.
The survey results would be used in draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts,
to express use cases and their corresponding requirements, especially in
terms of scalability numbers. 

Here is the draft version of the survey that already was discussed on
the multicast VPN requirements mailing list.
We'd like to have the WG feedback about this document before proceeding
(i.e before sending it to those who may answer it). 

Thank you for your feedback,

-Thomas

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Multicast VPN Survey - 2005-06

  1. Presentation

      1.1 Context and goal

         Current work in the l3vpn IETF Working group include the
definition 
         of requirements for Multicast in L3 VPNs and specification of a
         multicast VPN solution. In this perspective, the authors of the
         requirement draft [draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts] are 
         initiating a survey to better express requirements, and
especially
         scalability requirements.

         A summary of the results of this survey will be included in
         the requirements document which should serve as guidelines for
         solution design.

         The scope of this survey is multicast in L3VPNs: the mechanisms
         setup by a VPN provider to carry customer multicast traffic of
         customers.

      1.2 Answering this survey

         This survey will hopefuly be answered by ISPs planing to offer
         a multicast VPN service, and possibly by VPN customers having a
         need for such a service (not all questions of this survey will
         be relevant in that later case).

         The answers should relate not to what you'd expect today,
         but more to what you see as a longer term target for such a
         service. For scalability figures, please answer what you think
         you may need/like to support in the longer term.
         Please answer as much questions as possible, but feel free to
         ommit answers if the question aren't relevant for you.

         If you expectd different kinds of significantly different
         deployments, it is better to answer the survey multiple times.

      1.3 Sending the results

         Once completed, we'd appreciate that you send the document
         to <[email-masked]>.

[or, depending on the degree of anonymization required...]

         Once completed, we'd appreciate that you send the document
         to <x@x>, which will anonymize the survey result before
forwarding
         them to the L3VPN WG multicast VPN requirement drafts authors.

   2. Questions

     This survey is divided into three parts.

     The first one relates to quantitative questions that can be quickly
     answered by a simple figure (numbers of multicast PEs, of multicast
     VPNs,...), and the second one is made of qualitative questions
     regarding the expected use of the service (features, dynamicity,
     client application use case patterns...).

     In the last part you can express more in detail considerations you
     may have about multicast VPN deployments, including for instance
     specific use cases you think may highlight specific important
points.

      2.1 Quantitative questions

         Here, we are just expecting rough figures and orders of
magnitude,
         such as: 20k, tens of thousands, hundreds, O(10^2), etc. 

         2.1.1 Deployment and offer

            1. Number of VPNs for which multicast is made available

              * total:   .......

              * per PE:  .......

              * per AS, per provider : ......
               (inter-AS or inter-provider context)

            2. CEs per VPN per PE, for which multicast is enabled:

            ..........

            3. number of PEs per VPN with multicast enabled (source or
            receiver):

            ..........

            4. number of PEs with multicast service enabled:

            ..........

         2.1.2 Parameters related to customer applications and usage
         patterns

            1. Number of PEs connected to multicast receivers:

            ..........

            2. Number of PEs connected to multicast sources:

            ..........

            3. Number of multicast (*,G) or (S,G) sourced ...

              * ...per VPN:  ..........

              * ...per PE:   ..........

              * ...per CE:   ..........

      2.2 Qualitative questions

         2.2.1 Expected VPN customer applications

            1. Type of multicast applications

               Mutlicast applications deployed over a multicast VPN can
               be differentiated depending on many criterias, such as,
               for instance: real-time or not, bandwidth,
receiver-source
               structure (one-to-many, many-to-many, many-to-few...),
               sensitivity to packet loss, number of streams...

               Please give examples of some possible application, in
               the form of eg.:

                 o "real-time / few-to-many / tens of Mbps"
                 o "non real time / multiple few-to-few streams / known
                    sources, unknown receivers / hundreds of Mbps"

               a) ........

               b) ........

               c) .........

               ...

            2. Dynamics

              * Do you expect customer applications that are sensitive
to
               multicast join/latency (time to receive/leave a stream) ?

               ........

              * What kind of frequency do you expect for mcast routing 
               changes, at the PE level ?  (eg. "not more than XX leave
and
               joins per hour")

               ........

              * Predictability of sources and receivers locations: do
you
               expect to be able, for each said multicast VPN customer,
to
               have an a priori on the location of customer sources
and/or
               receivers ?

               ........

            3. Customer side protocols: among the following, please
            chose which you'd expect to support at the CE-PE level
(y/n) ?

              * PIM-SM:
              * PIM-SSM:
              * Bidir PIM: 
              * IGMP(v2/v3):
              * MLDv2: 
              * PIM-DM:

            4. Would you plan to support multicast in a carrier's
carrier
            context ?

            ........

        2.2.1 Network Considerations

            1. Do you have PE for which reachability is less good than
            others (costly or scarce bandwidth) ?

            ........

            2. Do you think some VPNs of your customers may have same
            or close sets of PEs, and may thus possibly benefit from
            using the same PE-to-PE point to multipoint tunnels ?

            ........

            3. Do you plan to deploy multicast VPNs in a multi-AS
            context ?

            ........

            4. Do you plan to deploy multicast VPNs in a multi-provider
            context ?

            ........

        2.2.1 Relative Importance on different aspects

            Please rate the following items according to their relative
            importance - from 1 (Unimportant) to 5 (Important).

            * Seem-less interoperability with the current unicast
model: ...

            * Multicast VPN must not impose additional
             requirements on CE devices: ...

            * Re-use of existing multicast protocols for multcast
traffic
              transport over the provider core network: ...

            * Support of TE features such as bandwidth reservation and
              admission control: ...

            * Provide the same level of security for both the customer
and
             the SP as available with unicast VPNs: ...

            * Support for global Internet multicast
(emission/reception): ...

            * Support for Extranet (having a VRF in more than one 
              multicast VPN): ...

   3. Specific considerations you may want to express

   ...........

Thank you very much !