Subject: [ldapext] I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldapext-vlv-00.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:11:11 -0400

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

	Title		: LDAP (Alternative) Virtual List View Operation
	Author(s)	: K. Zeilenga
	Filename	: draft-zeilenga-ldapext-vlv-00.txt
	Pages		: 18
	Date		: 2002-10-2
	
This document describes an LDAP (Lightweight Directory Access
Protocol) Virtual List View (VLV) operation.  The operation allows the
client to obtain portion (the view) of an ordered set (the list) of
entries visible through a virtual window.  The client can reissue the
operation with different criteria to obtain a different view of the
list.  Clients may use this operation to page, scroll, or browse
directory content.
The VLV operation is defined as a set of LDAP controls which extend
the Search operation.  The VLV controls may be used in conjunction
with a number of other search controls, such as the Server Side
Sorting of Search Results (RFC 2891) control.

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From: [email-masked] (Mark C Smith)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:49:34 -0400

In my opinion, a very important and useful feature of the IETF process 
is that the authors of a document retain considerable control over the 
direction and scope of the work. Publishing an alternative to VLV as 
Kurt has done is one way to sidestep that constraint... but I do not 
think it is a good approach.

The IETF has a long standing tradition of carefully balancing features, 
time-to-market, ease of implementation, and interoperability. I believe 
that Kurt's new I-D suffers has too many features, is at least 2 years 
late to market, will be difficult to implement in an effective and 
efficient manner on the server side, and therefore the likelihood that a 
large number of interoperable implementations will be created is very low.

I feel strongly that draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-vlv-08.txt should be 
published as a Proposed Standard (with minor changes if WG consensus 
dictates that they are needed). Of course I will leave it to the LDAPEXT 
WG chairs to judge consensus on this issue and provide the group with 
direction.

-Mark Smith
  Netscape

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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:08:55 -0700

As discussed recently on this list, draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-vlv
scroll up/down mechanism does not work when directory content
changes.  One entry add/delete/modify is sufficient to cause problems.
The authors have confirmed that draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-vlv scrolling
mechanism was designed to work with static directory content.

I believe this to be a serious flaw in the design of this extension.
Standard track LDAP extensions should be designed to handle dynamic
directory content.

I have authored an alternative to demonstrate a scrolling and browsing
approach designed to handle dynamic directory content.

In moving forward, I would like to see draft-ietf-ldapext-ldapv3-vlv
be modified to address dynamic directory content.  I see two ways
it could address dynamic directory content.
 1) redesign as necessary to handle dynamic directory content or
 2) clearly state that the extension is only applicable when
    the directory content is stable.

In case 1), I hope my I-D will be of some use to the authors.
In case 2), I suggest the authors don't pursue the work further
on the Standard Track.

Kurt

At 04:11 AM 2002-10-03, [email-masked] wrote:
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>Content-ID:     <[email-masked]>
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From: Mark Wahl <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:31:26 -0500

> WG chairs to judge consensus on this issue and provide the group with

VLV was reviewed by the working group and IESG and was submitted to the RFC 
editor 2 years ago, however a problem with the result codes reference meant 
that it was not published.  I would like to see the VLV draft resolve any
problems that have been found and be completed so that it can be published
as an RFC.

Mark Wahl
Sun Microsystems Inc.

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From: "David Boreham" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:12:15 -0700

> problems that have been found and be completed so that it can be published

+1

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From: "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:31:41 -0700

At 11:12 AM 2002-10-03, David Boreham wrote:
>> I would like to see the VLV draft resolve any

I agree.  Let's resolve the problems with the VLV draft.