Subject: RE: [Ltru] el truth?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:30:15 -0700

This is exactly how we would classify the file at Sony Pictures. No 
problem. We specify acceptable audio and text languages in our metadata 
standard -- this is somewhat specific to our own business needs -- and 
allow multiple selections for any given title or product. Our DVDs have 
multiple language tracks (subtitled/dubbed localizations and the original 
spoken language) and Digital Cinema will increasingly allow this in film. 

Some films are also in multiple languages in their original versions. 
Sometimes the beginning title sequences or end credits remain in the 
original language while the rest of the film is localized. We track it 
all. Just because the spoken and written attributes are not in RFC 3066, 
doesn't mean we can't use this as a standard today.  In fact, the film and 
television standards we must comply with track spoken and written 
languages as separate elements so I'm not sure we'd even want this 
attribute in our codes. We do set a rule that script types should never be 
used with dubbed content, but that seems fairly obvious.

We also allow for the "spoken" language "silent" to be combined with a 
text language of, say, French for title cards in silent films. (We are 
implementing an industry-specific custom tag, xsi, for now and are working 
with the MPA to standardize on that within the industry.)

I would argue that the "en" is "en-FR" because the "e" in English is not 
capitalized.  ;) I also agree that the file sent was offensive and 
xenophobic.

Karen Broome
Metadata Systems Designer
Sony Pictures Entertainment
310.244.4384

"Peter Constable" <[email-masked]>
Sent by: [email-masked]
09/26/2005 09:26 AM

        To:     "LTRU Working Group" <[email-masked]>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: [Ltru] el truth?

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of r&d afrac
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:01 PM

> Offensive? Off-topic?
> It seems you really have a problem with networked language
> understanding and multicultural real world!
> That kind of comment identify the author ....
> Please indicate your langtag for that file.

That file has two streams of linguistic content, each of which could be
tagged: "fr" for one, "en" for the other. The file as a whole contains
content in two languages, and would face no greater issue for tagging
than any other bilingual document. In principle, a server might be able
to return this content in response to a request for either "en" or "fr".
If a user wishes to request specifically *audio* that is in French, then
the protocol for content negotiation would need to distinguish between
modalities for which linguistic attributes are specified.

There is no difficulty whatsoever creating language tags appropriate for
this file. The only issues have to do with the metadata categories used
for content in a given application context and negotiation mechanisms
that make reference to those categories -- all of which is beyond the
scope of the current projects of this WG.

Peter Constable

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---

From: "John.Cowan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:23:39 -0400

> with the MPA to standardize on that within the industry.)

Please don't use "xsi" for this purpose: play by the rules and use "x-silent".
In the ISO 639-3 and RFC 3066ter regime, we will be using "xsi" for Sio, a
minority language of Papua New Guinea.

-- 
John Cowan  [email-masked]  www.reutershealth.com  www.ccil.org/~cowan
Heckler: "Go on, Al, tell 'em all you know.  It won't take long."
Al Smith: "I'll tell 'em all we *both* know.  It won't take any longer."

---

From: r&d afrac <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:20:37 +0200

At 22:23 26/09/2005, John.Cowan wrote:
> > with the MPA to standardize on that within the industry.

I am not sure you can do that. From what Lee documented and I 
accepted, this could be done in a private space (like an intranet or 
a VPN). Here you talk of an Industry standard. This is exactly the 
case URI-tags RFC will document as "mpa.org:silent".

>In the ISO 639-3 and RFC 3066ter regime, we will be using "xsi" for 
>Sio, a minority language of Papua New Guinea.

Languages are in first position. Silent is modal. This is not because 
you are silent that you cannot read, listen or think?
Think for example to a rebus.
jfc