Subject: [Ltru] [Marketing] An official Web site for IETF Languages?

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:32:42 +0200

It is now a few months since I've set up:

http://ltru.generic-nic.net/

The intent was to prototype a Web site for the "language tag
community", gathering all that was necessary for ordinary users, tags
submitters, software developers, etc.
 
I believe it could be the time to move from an experiment to a more
"official" Web page (yes, I know we are not a fomal organization and
we cannot have anything really official; but you get the idea). 

I suggest that we discuss a common Web site with these items, under a
domain name to reserve (I have a idea, and the domain is free, but I
prefer not to mention it publicly, because of cybersquatters).

I am of course ready, either to transfer files, scripts and management
to a person or group of persons, choosen by us, or to keep caretaking
it, at your choice.

So, opinions?

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru

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From: "CE Whitehead" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:01:53 -0400

Hi, Stephane,
you've done a great job of keeping up the web site.

if there is to be a group replacing you, the only issue is to make sure that 
each member knows his/her responsibility and will be able to carry them out.

I like the site fine the way you alone have done it, but we do not pay you 
to do it; it's not quite fair.

I suggest we wait to see what members of the group could contribute to 
keeping the site up.

{I'm great at developing web sites
but I am not sure what I am going to be doing exactly in a few months--right 
now I use a computer at a library as time (their and mine) permits; I do not 
have my own computer, because of this I do not know if I can commit to 
anything, though I can always create a page or two if someone needs that 
done.  But--I owe on a student loan, so it's get a job or else, and I do not 
know where I will be, or what I will be doing.  If, a few months down the 
road, I have a computer and am somewhere permanent . . . then I would like 
to help, but the site seems to be perfect, need nothing, at this point}

Thanks for doing the great site in any case.

--C. E. Whitehead
[email-masked]

>Ietf-languages mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages

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From: Martin Duerst <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:12:20 +0900

[chair hat off]

Apart from the glaring color scheme, I think this site is quite useful.
If I have some info to contribute, I'll gladly do so.
I also think that you have done a great job, and would be extremely
glad if you could continue to keep taking care of it, at this or
at a new location (and either way, get rid of the "Currently, it is
just a draft to trigger discussions.")

[chair hat on]
As already said below, there are no official Web pages for
IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for
a Web site to be official to be useful.

Regards,    Martin.

>to a person or group of persons, choosen by us, or to keep caretaking

#-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       mailto:[email-masked]

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:12:23 +0200

On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 01:12:20PM +0900,
 Martin Duerst <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 49 lines which said:

> Apart from the glaring color scheme, 

:-)

> But there is no need for a Web site to be official to be useful.

I know, that is why I've put "official" between quotes. What I wanted
to say is that it may be time to move from a one-person Web site to
something which is more the work of the "community"...

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From: "CE Whitehead" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:51:33 -0400

>Apart from the glaring color scheme, I think this site is quite useful.

Hi, I think we can select a new color scheme as a group if that's what 
people want
(I'm pretty color-tolerant, but it is maybe a little bright, oh well;
the w3c has test pages that mix red and green horribly):
There's a color coder and a list of browser-compatible colors (more colors 
are browser-compatible today) at the following url:
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Style.html#hexcolors

>If I have some info to contribute, I'll gladly do so.

Who updates the ltru pages (http://ltru.generic-nic.net/registries.html and 
the links there) when a new language/variant/etc. subtag is registered?

Someone needs to keep those up.

(Like I said, I cannot commit more than a month or so down the road; then I 
do not know where I will be . . . what computer access I will have)

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From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:20:44 +0200

> a Web site to be official to be useful.

Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools
pages for WGs are only "semi-official".  They've links to
the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts,
etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related
pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it.

For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's
dkim.org.  There are more examples.

It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert
review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's
now the list of "other lists".  With that list the IESG,
IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be
out there.  Based on that not yet existing list of review
lists the tools server could allow to add "related review
lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages.

Frank

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From: Peter Constable <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:41:19 -0700

Please do not use this list to design colour schemes.

Thanks
Peter

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From: Chris Newman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:35:17 +0530

This has been done before.  See the WG page for lemonade:

  <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/lemonade-charter.html>

which points to an "Additional LEMONADE Web Page".

If the WG chair asks the area advisor (that's now me for LTRU) to add such a 
link, I'll put in a ticket with the secretariat to do that.

On the tools front, it would be nice if updates to the charter page (with the 
exception of the charter text itself which requires full IESG approval) that 
are within the purview of the area directors / WG chairs could be made directly.

                - Chris

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From: Chris Newman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:46:15 +0530

Frank Ellermann wrote on 3/28/07 18:20 +0200:
> out there.

This is a good suggestion.  As incoming Apps AD the list of apps-related IANA 
review lists is something I just have to learn from my predecessor or co-AD. 
So collecting that information in one place would smooth the AD transition in 
addition to being generally useful for the community.

                Thanks,
                - Chris

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:06:30 +0200

On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 10:51:33AM -0400,
 CE Whitehead <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 77 lines which said:

> Who updates the ltru pages
> (http://ltru.generic-nic.net/registries.html and the links there)
> when a new language/variant/etc. subtag is registered?

It is done automatically, of course. I would be glad to ship the
script(s) to a new maintainer but, in the mean time, I'm the one who
reads the error messages, if something goes wrong.

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:39:30 +0200

On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 09:35:17AM +0530,
 Chris Newman <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 59 lines which said:

> If the WG chair asks the area advisor (that's now me for LTRU) to
> add such a link, I'll put in a ticket with the secretariat to do
> that.

I intend to buy the domain name (with me as the holder, since it does
not seem there is an existing structure to be regsitered as the holder
but advices are welcome) and then to ask this link. Speak before, if
you disagree.

---

From: "CE Whitehead" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:58:56 -0400

>reads the error messages, if something goes wrong.

I have limited experience deciphering javascript error messages and would be 
only a limited help with these (a second reader);
I could correct xml or xhtml I guess;
(but what I do know about programming would probably not save me with sql or 
C++
--I used to know MS Basic pretty well; that's it, also Pascal; a little C)

Sorry.  (Wish I could help more with this.  I'd be happy to try to learn but 
think I would just waste your time???)

For the color background
(see http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Style.html#hexcolors )
I would suggest something paler;
anything dark blurs dark font and links
(unless you change the color of the font and links--also an option--for 
example, you could make the pages really dark mauve (#330033), the text 
white, and the links really light (link #ccccff; vlink #ffff99 alink #ff99cc 
or vice versa; hover #ffcccc or something siimlar as far as set up's go I 
really do not know)

otherwise a lighter page background, any color  (if people do not mind pink 
and mauve, #cccc99 [this shade is almost a beige color], #ffcccc and #ffccff 
are not too bad for a background; otherwise something else--maybe beige, 
ffffcc; or ?? I'll leave it to the group to decide if they want a change, 
and to pick the color scheme)

--C. E. Whitehead
[email-masked]

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From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:12 +0200

Hi Frank, Martin,

> pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it.

Sure.  I just have to work out a good way of doing it so that
it becomes self-service for the chairs, rather than them
having to ask me to do it -- that makes me a bottleneck.

> lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages.

Right, that seems useful and reasonable.

	Henrik

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From: Chris Newman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:56:01 +0530

I have read your concerns.  If the WG has rough consensus to have a 
non-normative web page with additional information about the WG linked from the 
WG IETF web page, that is within currently permitted process.  It is the WG 
chair's responsibility to gauge rough consensus of the WG.  If your concerns 
have technical merit, I am sure others will echo your concerns so the chair can 
correctly gauge rough consensus on the issue.

In the event you feel the chair has failed to gauge rough consensus correctly 
you may use the standard IETF appeals process.  It is not helpful to contact 
the IESG absent sufficient evidence to back your claim.  In the future, I 
recommend you gather supporting messages from active WG participants prior to 
contacting the IESG.

                - Chris Newman
                Applications Co-Area Director