Subject: [Ltru] folding boundaries

From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:59:47 -0800

In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about folding:

    Folding is always done on
    Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of
    a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character
    sequence).

Draft-12's editor's copy has:

    Folding is always done on
    a whitespace boundary.  Some languages do not use whitespace between
    words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically
    in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters.

I propose we use the draft-12 text.

Addison

-- 
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
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---

From: "Mark Davis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:56 -0800

The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to
provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion:

Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This
is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other
characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more
information, see [UAX14].

Mark

-- 
Mark

---

From: "Mark Davis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:07:48 -0800

Other than this one, I agree with all your edits.

Mark

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From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:13 -0800

Hi -

> From: "Mark Davis" <[email-masked]>
> To: "Addison Phillips" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries
>
...

As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this
suggested text.  However, I do think the current text ("Folding is
always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never
in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a
combining character sequence).") makes an important point.  I do not
think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we*
are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on [email-masked]
can probably be trusted to "do the right thing."

Randy

---

From: "Mark Davis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:31 -0800

How about:

Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping.
This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between
other characters where a language does not use whitespace between
words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte
UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence.
For more information, see [UAX14].

Mark

---

From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:42:28 -0800

Hi -

> To: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:38 PM

Seems very clear to me as a technical contributor.

Randy

---

From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:07:03 -0800

> Seems very clear to me as a technical contributor.

+1

Addison

---

From: Peter Constable <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:06 -0800

+1

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> Addison Phillips
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:07 PM
> To: Randy Presuhn
> Cc: LTRU Working Group

---

From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:42:40 -0800

> can probably be trusted to "do the right thing."

I tend to agree. However, the current text really needs attention. Thus 
I added a modified version of Mark's text:

--
Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. 
This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other 
characters when the value does not contain whitespace (such as a comment 
in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see <xref 
target="UAX14"></xref>.
--

I also added an informative reference to UAX#14.

Addison

---

From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:45:50 -0800

Done, with a few minor edits, which includes fixing the not-quite 
normative "MUST never" to "MUST NOT" and inserting an *informative* 
reference to UAX14. Here is my modified version:

--
Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping.
This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between
other characters when the value does not include spaces, such as when a 
language does not use whitespace between
words. In any event, there MUST NOT be breaks inside a multibyte
UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence.
For more information, see <xref target="UAX14"></xref>.
--

Addison

---

From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:50 -0800

Silly me... I composed this and then saw a few more messages in the 
thread and pushed send on BOTH accidentally. Ignore this one.

Addison

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From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:18:53 -0500

> in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see <xref 

I'm still troubled by this in principle, though not so much in practice.
As things stand, it's impossible to tell, based on this paragraph, whether

foo: bar
   baz

is equivalent to

foo: barbaz

or

foo: bar baz

For merely human readable stuff in the registry, which is what is
likely to be folded, it doesn't matter so much, <offtopic>but in other
applications of record-jar, it could be a serious issue</offtopic>.

-- 
You escaped them by the will-death              John Cowan
and the Way of the Black Wheel.                 [email-masked]
I could not.  --Great-Souled Sam                http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
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From: Addison Phillips <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:36 -0800

> applications of record-jar, it could be a serious issue</offtopic>.

Noted. Not particularly important here, but definitely so elsewhere :-).

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From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:45:41 -0800

Hi -

As co-chair...

>From the recent postings, it seems like we've converged on a
consensus with respect to this item, recognizing that while
the definition of folding isn't "perfect", it is adequate for
the purpose of maintaining human-readable text in the registry.

So, I'm going to mark this one "resolved."

Randy