Subject: SenderID name in use by somebody else

From: "william(at)elan.net" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:12:17 -0700 (PDT)

I have found that apparently both senderid.net and senderid.org domains
are registered (to unknown party as whois info lists domainsbyproxy, but
registration is dated Oct 2003 and thus is prior to MARID):
 http://www.completewhois.com/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=91739046&options=retrieve

Looking at the website at http://www.senderid.org it appears they are 
adding "tm" to every use of SenderID on their website which makes me 
think they may have applied for a trademark. The website appears to 
indicate that these domains are related and setup by makers of software 
called MailKey. I'm not reallyfamiliar with that company but I seem to 
remember them being somewhatof an annoynance at ASRG last year with their 
stupid C/R implementation, some people even decided to filter them out:
 http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg/current/msg02479.html

Here is how SenderID is described on their website:
 What is SenderID(tm)?
 SenderID(tm) permits the identification of inbound emails which have 
 "spoofed" (faked) "From" addresses. SenderID(tm) enabled servers also help 
 people to authenticate the origin of emails sent from them; so SenderID(tm)
 messages can be trusted more than other messages. Using SenderID(tm) on 
 outbound messages helps to reduce the risk of Identity Theft. 

The above description comes very close to wha MARID is doing (and appears 
to cover it), futher on webpage it says: 
 What about legitimate exceptional IP addresses from which mail is sent?
 SenderID(tm) v1.1 will be compatible with the SPF authentication system 
 developed by Meng Weng Wong. SPF allows the reverse look up, on the DNS 
 system, of the exceptional IP addresses from which legitimate mail can be 
 sent. Domains registered with SenderID(tm) can also list their exceptional
 IP addresses from which legitimate mail is sent at SenderID.org. SenderID(tm)
 software checks for the presence of any of these exceptional IP addresses 
 on its central registry

There is also a link to spf.pobox.com on their links page. So while I'm not
entirely certain if they are trying to capilalize on our work or not,
clearly their use of this name is in direct conflict to what MARID is doing

It does also that they have a seniority on use of this name as for example 
is referenced in the following article back from Feb 2004:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200402/ai_mark1121481067

As such I believe their use of SenderID predated this WG and its our use
that is in conflict with their software and not the other way around. This
gives them very good standing in court and otherwise and it may become a
serious problem for us in the future, as such I STRONGLY advise this WG 
to reconsider futher use of the SenderID name in light of this conflict.

---
William Leibzon, Elan Networks:
 mailto: [email-masked]
Anti-Spam Research Worksite:
 http://www.elan.net/~william/asrg/

---

From: Andrew Newton <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:34:51 -0400

> to reconsider futher use of the SenderID name in light of this 

After rereading Section 7.4 of RFC 3667, it would appear that it is not 
our place to judge the validity of this trademark registration.  Either 
the IETF has been granted the right to the trademark in its 
reproduction of documents or it has not... and in this case I believe 
the latter is true.

And unlike the issue of the patent application and patent license, this 
directly affects the liability of ISOC/IETF.

I will consult with the PTB to verify this.

-andy