Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

From: "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 12:38:14 -0400

The edd package in H.248.16 was designed for just the kind of
application you are suggesting here -- to collect digits mid-call.
Digit collection via a DigitMap in H.248 can occur at any time the MGC
chooses to do so by adding a completion event to the Events Descriptor
and setting a DigitMap Descriptor appropriately.
 
Kevin

________________________________

	From: Pellegrino Jose Luis [mailto:[email-masked]] 
	Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:00 PM
	To: [email-masked]
	Subject: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

	Hi MeGaCo community,
	 
	I would like to ask you a question about class 4 and class 5
applications.
	 
	If I am not wrong, digit maps (point 7.1.14 of RFC 3525) and
dd/ce have been developed to be used in class 5 application. In fact in
my opinion we use digit map with residencial or access gateway, and not
just in trunk gateway.
	 
	So the question is:
	Is it possible to use dd/ce in trunk gateway in order to notify
a MGC DTMF digits received by the MG during the conversation fase (I
mean not during the stablishing period)? 
	Or in the hand that feature requires to be implemented, an ad
hoc modifications, I mean  It is not a natural use of dd/ce?
	 
	I will understand if you say that what I am asking for, sounds
like strange. If you need more explanations  I can explain it in more
detail. It is not related to the transport of DTMF from one MG to the
other MG: in that case we use the RFC 2833 RTP mechanism.
	 
	Finally, in case what I am asking for is not possible or not
recommended, what about of use of dd/std in class 4 applications.
	 
	Sorry for my bad english, and best regard in advance
	 
	José Luis Pellegrino
	Telefónica de Argentina

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Megaco mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco

---

From: "Yanssen, Rodrigo Duarte" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:24:31 -0300

I think that the Access Gateways on market, treat a little quantity of E1, normally only one STM-1, while a Virtual Trunk Gateway can control up to 10 STM-1, so in my mind is not appropriate the MG proccess a lot of DS0s with Digit Map, if these events had already completed in the PSTN switch. 

Now, if you will use the event dd/ce sending digit by digit, you will not use really this feature, so you are would using CE like STD. And we can not mix Digits to Call Setup and Digits in_band that are using to transport confidencials information like account bank and passwords, that can be transported by in_band RFC 2833.

Regards

___________________________
Rodrigo Yanssen
Siemens - COM NSC FN E
Phone:  +55-11-3908-3527
Mobile: +55-19-9134-8168

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de maio de 2006 13:38
To: Pellegrino Jose Luis; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

Kevin

	Hi MeGaCo community,

	 
	So the question is:

	 
	 
	José Luis Pellegrino
	Telefónica de Argentina

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:26:29 +0200

This view is too simplified in my opinion (because not considering the
different markets of legacy PSTN/ISDN networks).
You should at least distinguish ANSI and non-ANSI (like ETSI) markets.
The ANSI CLASS4 exchange is slightly different as the ETSI Transit exchange
(TX) with regards the involvment in service control ("background is the
rather early de-regulation in ANSI markets 20 years ago with the two
business roles of a local operator and long distance operator").

If you then considering an NGN scenario with a replacement of the CLASS4 or
the TX by a H.248 Trunking Gateway, then you need two MG variants:

   (1) TMG_C4 (let's call it "CLASS4 Trunking Media Gateway")
   (2) TMG_TX (let's call it "Transit Trunking Media Gateway")

The 2nd one doesn't require DTMF support at the H.248 interface, - neither
individual digits nor digitmaps -, from a replacement requirement. See e.g.
ETSI ES 283 024, an H.248 Profile for ETSI TMG_TXs.

But the 1st one has typically that requirement. I also do agree to Kevin
that "DigitMap" support is needed for the TMG_C4 (e.g., the previous CLASS4
could had an (INAP) interface to an IN SCP, which needs to be continued).

Another reason is that the TMG_TX is typically considering only SS7 trunks
(like in ETSI TISPAN NGN R1), whereas there could be also CAS trunks (like
SSR1, SSR2, SSR5). The TMG_C4 has typically to interface as well SSR1
trunks, which again may lead to the requirement of individual digits or
digitstring handling.

If you would made an attempt in comparing both TMGs by H.248 Profiles, then
the H.248 TMG_TX Profile would be a subset of the H.248 TMG_C4 Profile.
And the TMG_C4 would need DigitMap support as outlined by Kevin.
This is related to the H.248 TDM Termination and has nothing to do with the
RTP side.

My view, Albrecht

                      "Yanssen, Rodrigo                                                                                              
                      Duarte"                    To:      "Kevin Boyle" <[email-masked]>, "Pellegrino Jose Luis"                  
                      <rodrigo.yanssen@s         <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>                                     
                      iemens.com>                cc:                                                                                 
                                                 Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248                     
                      16.05.2006 14:24                                                                                               

I think that the Access Gateways on market, treat a little quantity of E1,
normally only one STM-1, while a Virtual Trunk Gateway can control up to 10
STM-1, so in my mind is not appropriate the MG proccess a lot of DS0s with
Digit Map, if these events had already completed in the PSTN switch.

Now, if you will use the event dd/ce sending digit by digit, you will not
use really this feature, so you are would using CE like STD. And we can not
mix Digits to Call Setup and Digits in_band that are using to transport
confidencials information like account bank and passwords, that can be
transported by in_band RFC 2833.

Regards

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de maio de 2006 13:38
To: Pellegrino Jose Luis; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

Kevin

             Hi MeGaCo community,

             So the question is:
             Is it possible to use dd/ce in trunk gateway in order to
notify

             José Luis Pellegrino
             Telefónica de Argentina

---

From: "Yanssen, Rodrigo Duarte" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:41:35 -0300

Ok, Srs. We have some diferents packeges for diferent application. But we need to remember that our colleague Pelegrino asked to us about DTMF in_band and out_band after established call.

My opinion is that the appropriated method is RFC2833 in_band, or DD/STD for out_band digits because after established calls is not appropriate to configure events to be completed (CE).

And I think that is not appopriate to have profiles on network, because we would be create diferents cells in the same net.

Regards

Rodrigo Yanssen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: quarta-feira, 17 de maio de 2006 04:26
To: Yanssen, Rodrigo Duarte
Cc: Kevin Boyle; [email-masked]; Pellegrino Jose Luis
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

My view, Albrecht

                      "Yanssen, Rodrigo                                                                                              

Regards

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de maio de 2006 13:38
To: Pellegrino Jose Luis; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

Kevin

             Hi MeGaCo community,

             So the question is:

             José Luis Pellegrino
             Telefónica de Argentina

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 17:16:30 +0200

Guess you agree that the H.248-controlled process for the
collection/generation of DTMF information is
a) disjoint with regards to termination types (physical vs ephemeral), and
also
b) disjoint with regards to the used transfer method at a specific
termination type (e.g., DTMF inband at ALN or TDM terminations; DTMF RTP
via media packets or DTMF RTP via RFC2833 packets).

The specific transfer mode at the bearer interface doesn't limit the
applicability of dg, dd, xdd and edd; and is independent of the application
of DigitMap descriptors. Right?

If yes, then the initial question was again related to CLASS5 vs CLASS4
with scope on DigitMap support.
And again my understanding is: individual digit reporting or/and digitmap
handling could be both valid requirements for CLASS4 replacement scenarios
(with correspondent support by H.248 protocol elements).

Regards,
Albrecht

                      "Yanssen, Rodrigo                                                                                              
                      Duarte"                    To:      Albrecht SCHWARZ/DE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL                                        
                      <rodrigo.yanssen@s         cc:      [email-masked], Pellegrino Jose Luis <[email-masked]>         
                      iemens.com>                Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248                     
                                                                                                                                     
                      17.05.2006 09:41                                                                                               

Ok, Srs. We have some diferents packeges for diferent application. But we
need to remember that our colleague Pelegrino asked to us about DTMF
in_band and out_band after established call.

My opinion is that the appropriated method is RFC2833 in_band, or DD/STD
for out_band digits because after established calls is not appropriate to
configure events to be completed (CE).

And I think that is not appopriate to have profiles on network, because we
would be create diferents cells in the same net.

Regards

Rodrigo Yanssen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: quarta-feira, 17 de maio de 2006 04:26
To: Yanssen, Rodrigo Duarte
Cc: Kevin Boyle; [email-masked]; Pellegrino Jose Luis
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

My view, Albrecht

                      "Yanssen, Rodrigo

                      Duarte"                    To:      "Kevin Boyle"
<[email-masked]>, "Pellegrino Jose Luis"
                      <rodrigo.yanssen@s
<[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>

                      iemens.com>                cc:

                                                 Subject: RE: [Megaco]
class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248
                      16.05.2006 14:24

Regards

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Boyle [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de maio de 2006 13:38
To: Pellegrino Jose Luis; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Megaco] class 4 and class 5 applications in H.248

Kevin

             Hi MeGaCo community,

             So the question is:

             José Luis Pellegrino
             Telefónica de Argentina