Subject: [MIB-DOCTORS] normative references and REFERENCE clauses

From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 08:45:59 +0200

Hi,

I have a MIB module in AUTH48 and the following question popped up.
The MIB modules has something similar to this:

FancyString TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
    -- description etc. removed with a normative reference to 3629
    REFERENCE
       "RFC 3629: UTF-8, a transformation format of ISO 10646"
    SYNTAX OCTET STRING

Since the content of this RFC to be normatively depends on RFC 3629, I
included RFC 3629 in the normative reference section. As RFC 4181
points out, the RFC editor has a policy that you can't have a
reference in an RFC that is not cited and they do not like to cite the
reference in the MIB module because the MIB module can be extracted
and thus there is a dangling citation. Given this, it seems I have two
options:

a) Remove RFC 3629 from the normative references. This is the easiest
   solution but then any tools analyzing normative dependencies
   between RFCs will likely miss a normative reference, which sounds
   like a bad idea.

b) Add extra text somewhere outside the MIB module to establish a
   citation to RFC 3629. This adds some verbiage but ensures that the
   normative dependency gets properly recorded.

The third option, namely to try to change the RFC editor policy, I did
not consider seriously. ;-)

I checked RFC 4181 but it only has guidelines on IMPORTs. So do we
generally prefer option a) or b). If there is a clear preference,
should 4181bis be extended to handle the situation where REFERENCE
clauses refer normatively to other documents that are not cited
outside the MIB module?

/js

PS: I am bringing this question up here because I am editing a much
    larger document where this issue is much more dominant and so I
    want to be consistent.

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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From: "Bert (IETF) Wijnen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:15:28 +0100

>     larger document where this issue is much more dominant and so I
I think my preference would be to add a small piece of text right before 
the module where you explain the
normative dependency.

just my 2 cents.

Bert

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From: "David B Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:05:22 -0400

I recommend these references be handled in the same way as IMPORT
references.

dbh 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Juergen 
> Schoenwaelder
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:46 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [MIB-DOCTORS] normative references and REFERENCE clauses
> 
> Hi,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MIB-DOCTORS mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mib-doctors
>

---

From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:18:51 +0200

+1

Dan

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bert (IETF) Wijnen
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:15 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [MIB-DOCTORS] normative references and REFERENCE clauses
> 
> I think my preference would be to add a small piece of text 
> right before the module where you explain the normative dependency.
> 
> just my 2 cents.
> 
> Bert