Subject: Re: [MIB-DOCTORS] some advice to the new recruits

From: "C. M. Heard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 10:06:05 -0700 (PDT)

Greetings,

Here are some comments from a long-retired MIB Doctor (who 
occasionally lurks but definitely should no longer be listed as a 
directorate member on the Mib Doctors web page).

New recruits will definitely want to be familiar with RFC 4181 but 
need to be aware that much of the stuff dealing with the 
nut-and-bolts of how to construct a MIB **document** (as opposed to 
a MIB **module**) have been overtaken by events.  That is most 
particularly the case for sections dealing with copyrights and IPR 
notices; and since RFC 4841 was just an update to the copyright 
notice, that document is likely completely useless now.

Additionally, all the links in RFC 4181 that point to 
www.ops.ietf.org are now broken.  I've been gone for long enough 
that I have no clue where the stuff that used to be there went to.

The core of 4181 that I expect will remain useful is Section 4, 
SMIv2 Usage Guidelines (mudulo the broken links mentioned above).

I emphatically agree that the mib-doctors mailing list archives are 
**not** a good resourse to help people learn how to write MIB 
modules.  Those archives **might** be a resource for new recruits to 
see how we arrived at the decisions we made that are documented in 
Section 4 of RFC 4181 and, afterward, how we dealt with an obscure 
point not covered in the guidelines, but even for that the utility 
is likely to be rather limited.  I did dive back into the archives 
on a few occasions, particularly when a controversy arose about 
something in 4181 that I thought had been settled and I wanted tp 
see if I could reconstruct the original reasoning.  That exercise 
usually proved to be difficult even though I was one of the 
participants in the discussion.  I expect that it would be even 
harder for someone who was not there.  Also, be aware that prior to 
2006-07-18 the list was hosted at psg.com, and those archives are 
stored here:

http://www.psg.com/lists/mreview/

I emphatically agree with dbh's suggestion below to make all MIB 
reviews public and **easily accessible**.  When I was in the 
business I almost always posted my reviews to the appropriate WG 
mailing list, which made them public, but I would be hard pressed to 
locate those reviews now (I can't even remember most of them).

Finally, here one thing at the top of my list to say to new 
recruits: my experience was that the most painful reviews were those 
where there was lots of minor stuff wrong.  Don't be afraid to 
politely but firmly return such documents/modules to the authors 
stating that you need for them to look at the guidelines and SMI 
documents and make an effort to fix up those minor things before 
they use up **your** limited time.  Do this quickly before investing 
a lot of time in a thorough review.  All too often I did not follow 
this advice and paid dearly in wasted time and frustration.

Mike Heard

On Fri, 25 May 2012, David Harrington wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I don't agree this would be a good archive for people wanting to learn to
> write a MIB.
> 
> This email list is for MIB Doctors.
> The discussion tends to be about reaching agreement amongst the MIB
> Doctors on some esoteric point.
> This is where MIB Doctors go when they need help finding/interpreting the
> rules (such as the maximum value of a PEN).
> This is where MIB Doctors go if they don't like a design choice in a MIB
> module and want to know if other MIB Doctors agree, or to get alternate
> design suggestions.
> A person trying to learn to write a MIB will be totally lost and confused
> by these discussions.
> I think making the MIB reviews public could be a learning experience, but
> readers would need to sift through a lot of irrelevant stuff to find
> relevant nuggets. RFC4181 already gives them most of the nuggets we'll
> find in a MIB Doctor review.
> A MIB Doctor wiki might be a good way to capture additional nuggets from
> new reviews.
> Compare, for example,
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/TypicalAppsAreaIssues, and
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues.
> 
> 
> 
> The [email-masked] might be a better archive to check.
> This is where people writing a MIB are encouraged to seek help, so the
> focus is on advising MIB writers.
> But it does tend to be about solving problems MIB writers run into, rather
> than a from-scratch tutorial on how to write a MIB.
> 
> 
> Offering a Sunday tutorial on MIB writing, and/or producing a
> MIB-Doctor-written design guide would be far more helpful.
> Templates for writing MIB documents are already available on the tools
> page and from the RFC Editor.
> We've had quite a few discussions of a design guide (for things like table
> normalization, persistence, etc.) but haven't reached a point where
> somebody was willing to volunteer to hold the pen.
> A MIB design wiki might be a good way to start such a design guide,
> without demanding dedicated authorship from a MIB Doctor.
> 
> 
> There are multiple books available on MIBs; I find Dave Perkins' book
> "Understanding SNMP MIBs" most useful as a MIB Doctor (available on
> Amazon).
>  
>