Subject: [Mip4] Meeting minutes from IETF-63

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:32:17 +0200

Hi,

  Below is a first draft of the meeting minutes from IETF-63 in Paris.
Please read and comment.  (I seem to be able to find only the notes
from George, but another kind person also took notes - I wonder if I
have received these and mislaid them?)

The minutes are also available in HTML format: 
    http://www.mip4.org/ietf63/minutes.html

Regards,

	Henrik

========================================================================
MIP4 WG  Minutes (Monday, August 1, 2005, 1815-1945)
========================================================================

1. Preliminaries:                                                 Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Minute takers: George Tsirtsis

   There were no comments on the agenda.

2. Document Status:                                               Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------

  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft                                        |status                 |
  +=============================================+=======================+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc3344bis                   |New revision needed,   |
  |                                             |then publication req.  |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc2006bis                   |Review needed.         |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-vpn-problem-solution         |Review needed.         |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc3012bis                   |Publication Requested  |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-faerr                        |Publication Requested  |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-dynamic-assignment           |Waiting for AD Writeup |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-reg-tunnel                   |AD Evaluation          |
  |                                             |Revised ID Needed      |
  |Henrik: Charlie has produced new Appendix    |                       |
  |text, but it needs review.                   |                       |
  |Hesham S. offered to do this review.         |                       |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mobileip-lowlatency-handoffs-v4   |AD Evaluation          |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-vpn-problem-statement        |RFC Ed Queue           |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
  |draft-ietf-mip4-experimental-messages        |RFC 4064               |
  +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+

3. Relevant BOFs:                                                 Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------

   * NETLMM          Monday  0900 - 1000
   * MONAMI6         Friday  0900 - 1130

4. Proposed new charter:                                          Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   http://mip4.org/charter/mip4-charter-2005-07-13

   A new charter proposal has been submitted.  It's available at the
   URL given.  However, if any new work items are proposed and accepted
   by the WG during this meeting, this will have to be updated.

5. Proposed new work-items:                                       Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------

   The following work items are part of the proposed charter update:

   * Radius Attributes
   * Generic Strings
   * FMIPv4

6. RADIUS attributes for Mobile-IP v4:                        Kent Leung
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-nakhjiri-radius-mip4-01.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-radius.pdf

   No slides were received for this agenda item before the meeting, and
   Kent was not present in the room.  Skipped here, but inserted as
   agenda item 12, below.

7. MIPv4 Extension for Configuration Options Exchange: Jayshree Bharatia
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-bharatia-mip4-gen-ext-00.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-gen-ext.pdf

   This draft defines a Mobile IP extension for configuration options,
   which should be used by any Mobile IP entity to exchange information
   of the network entities like DNS server address, previous Foreign
   Agent (FA) address etc.

   Comments:

      Charlie: 
        Is this for host configuration from the HA?

      Jayshree: 
        3GPP is using L2 mechanisms to carry info...would be nice to do
        it over MIP. But this is only one option. This can be used for
        other things.

      Kent: 
        the L2 mechanisms probably provide local info anyway....we need
        home info too.

8. Discussion of mip4-gen-ext vs. mip4-host-config-vse:           Chairs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-bharatia-mip4-gen-ext-00.txt

   draft-leung-mip4-host-config-vse-00.txt

   Discussion:

      Henrik: 
        Why not just carry the DHCP option format instead of
        redefining? 

      Jayshree: 
        Yes

      Someone: 
        Options should be minimal, the rest should be done over DHCP

      Henrik:
        Should we adopt this or Kent's draft or merge them?

      Kent: 

        The Kent draft was proposed 2 years ago with no success. 3GPP2
        defined this with VSEs. Cisco also defined VSEs defined as
        informational. This new draft is good as a way forward for
        standards track doc. We should not eliminate existing
        implementations though so the info RFC should also progress.

      George: 
        Kent's draft is in IESG hands and independent. This should go
        ahead by itself. 

      Henrik: 
        Should we take this on?. 6 say yes. 5 say they will work on it.
        0 say it should not be taken on. It will be taken on.

   Conclusion:
      This will be proposed as a new work item in the updated charter.

9. Secure Connectivity using Mobile IPv4 and MOBIKE:   Vijay Devarapalli
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-devarapalli-mip4-mobike-connectivity-00.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-mobike-connectivity.pdf

   This draft presents an alternative to using dual-MIP (as described in
   draft-ietf-mip4-vpn-problem-solution-01) for combined MIPv4 and IPsec
   deployment, when the VPN gateway supports MOBIKE extensions.

   Comments:

      Someone: 
	I like the idea. You are using the VPN only when external. OK in
	enterprise but maybe not always?

      Vijay: 
	Some enterprises want you to use VPN all the time which is OK,
	this can be used in this case

      Kent: 
	Question. Does this support FA mode when outside? From a network
	that has FAs? 

      Vijay: 
	No this mode is not supported

      Henrik: 
	This and the double MIP solution solve the same problem in
	different ways, with no new protocols, just describe how to use
	existing tools.

      Kent: 
	MOBIKE is between MN and HA...if there is an FA MOBIKE can not be
	used.

      Someone: 
	This is not design for fast handoffs

      Vijay: 
	Yes, you can probably combine it with fast handoff mechs

      Henrik: 
	Realize that although MOBIKE provides mobility it is not designed
	for fast handoffs.

      Discussion: 
	Both the dual MIP and MIP/MOBIKE solutions require cooperation
	between the two Mobility clients.

      Discussion: do we need both solutions? Henrik/Vijay say yes, Gopal says
	no. lets take it offline...  Discussion continues for a little
	while more, but Gopal does not have the same viewpoint as others.

      Henrik:
	Should we adopt this? As part of the already described VPN
	problem statement? Or should we merge the two solution in one doc to
	fully describe the problem and solutions?

      Gopal: 
	Lets not try the dualMIP solution for this.

      Vijay: 
	I think dualMIP is stable. This new one is simple 10pg long. We
	do not need to merge. Lets make them consistent/clean-up.

      Henrik: 
	OK, no merging. 
	So should we adopt? 12-15 yes. 7 say they will
	work on it. OK it will be added. 0 say no.

      Hesham: 
	We should no really have multiple solutions...although I do not
	have any problem with this particular solution.

      Henrik. 
	I agree in general, but the two solutions are separate.

      Hesham: 
	but what should the MN implement?

      Henrik: Yes the default should be addressed.

      Gopal: Why not do this in MOBIKE. We now going to have two
	solutions...back and forth with Henrik...take it offline.

   Conclusion:
      There is rough consensus in the working group for taking this on,
      with some dissent about describing 2 (complementary) solutions.
      This will be proposed as a new work item in the updated charter.

10. Mobile IPv4 Home Agent Switch Message:                      Hui Deng
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-jin-mip4-ha-switch-00.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-ha-switch.pdf

   This document specifies a new MIP4 control message that can be used
   between a home agent and mobile node to signal a mobile node that it
   should acquire a new home agent.

   Discussion: 
	Applicability. Take down could be done by rejecting requests or
	use of redundant HA. 

      Kent: 
	Operationally it might be useful for various reasons like errors
	or change in billing etc.

      Henrik: 
	Yes applicability is not defined enough. The general capability
	of notification message may be useful.

      Henrik: 
	Should we take this specific draft on? 6 say yes, 2-3 say they
	will work on it. 1 says no

      Henrik: 
	Should we take on the general idea? 20 say yes, 2-3 say they
	will work, 0 say no
      Henrik: 
	OK we go with the general idea.

   Conclusion:
      A new draft is needed, describing a general notification message.
      The WG will consider adoption of such a draft when it is available.

11. Binding Identifier Extension for Mobile IPv4:         Nobuo Ogashiwa
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-ogashiwa-mip4-bid-extension-00.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-bid-extension.pdf

   This document specifies a new extension which carries a care-of
   address binding identifier, for the purpose of being able to couple
   tear-down and set-up of bindings when simultaneous bindings are used.

   Discussion: 

      This is dealing with complex issues. Some think that it enables
      complicated things to happen but we do not have to get into all of
      that. Some think that it does not do anything without defining how
      you set up the routing tables

      Henrik: 
	We tried to define how routing tables are set-up before but the
	WG and Chairs did not want to do this. You can also do this with
	a dereg followed by a reg. If not then you probably have other
	assumptions.  Maybe we need to have a bof on multi-homed
	MIP4...this is too immature.

      Hesham: 
	The chairs now are ok (after many year) to work on multi-homing
	and MIP4? >laughs<

      Henrik: 
	yes :-)

      Henrik: 
	Should we take this draft on? 0 say yes, 3 say no

      Henrik: 
	Should either here or in a BOF or in MONAMI6 we should work on
	multi-homing on MIP4? 25 say yes, 0 say no. Will consult with Pete
	and IESG to figure out how to proceed.

12. RADIUS attributes for Mobile-IP v4:                       Kent Leung
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   draft-nakhjiri-radius-mip4-01.txt

   Slides: http://mip4.org/ietf63/mip4-radius.pdf

   Kent gives a short update on the RADIUS attribute draft.  No
   discussion.

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