Subject: FW: [NEXTEL-1] Re: New Notice: FCC requires BDA >> USERS<< toi have licenses.

From: "Madden, Roger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:38:41 -0500

I failed to read the entire email Jack sent.  There are at least two,
possibly three, right answers to his question:  one for Part 90 ESMRs
like Nextel, one for Part 22 Cellular Radio Service, and possibly a
different one for Part 24 "1.9 GHz" Personal Communications Services,
all of which are sometimes generically referred to as cellular. 

The answer Jack received from the FCC rep. didn't provide the right
answer to any of the questions Jack asked.

Roger

_______________

-----Original Message-----
From: Madden, Roger 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:59 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [NEXTEL-1] Re: New Notice: FCC requires BDA >> USERS<< toi
have licenses.

Well, Jack, it may be a straight answer, but it's not the right answer.
Rule 22.527 refers to Rule 22.531: Low band, high band, and 931 MHz
Paging Operations frequencies.  Nextel is licensed in Part 90, not Part
22.  I expect the right citation starts with a rule prefaced by 90.

I suggest you call 202-418-0600 and ask for an attorney in private and
(some new title) wireless division to get the right info.  The quality
of information available thru the (1 888 Call FCC) line is variable.
For something as uncommon as the booster question, I would go to the
staff attorneys.

Roger Madden

---------------

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:00 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [NEXTEL-1] Re: New Notice: FCC requires BDA >> USERS<< toi have
licenses.

Finally a straight answer!   And it is "NO"!~ 

Jack Daniel wrote: 

	There has been debates in several groups over the last year as
to 
	whether BDA USERS needed licenses or not. 

	Some manufacturers, importers and distributors have been telling
BDA 
	customers they do not need a license to USE BDA's. 

	Those who are familiar with the rules say the FCC requires
signal 
	booster USERS to have a FCC license for the channels they want
the 
	signal booster to amplify, or legal approval from the
appropriate FCC 
	licensee. 

	The proper term the FCC used for BDA's is "signal boosters" and
there 
	are very specific rules concerning the USE of them to booster
cellular, 
	Nextel, public safety or other signals. 

	Today I received a statement from the FCC that should end this
debate. 
	It is posted below. It is very clear. 

	So there would be no additional incorrect 'interpretations' of
the FCC 
	rules, 
	I posed my questions as a typical BDA user who wants to but and
install 
	a BDA to be used with their cellular or Nextel handsets. 

	PLEASE re-post this in any group where this issue has been
discussed. 
	PLEASE forward this to the manufacturers, importers,
distributors and 
	dealers who have been giving bad advice to their customers. 

	Maybe the unlicensed end users who are now at risk of being
fined by the 
	FCC will get their money back? 

	Jack Daniel 
	======================================================= 

	Subject: FCC Consumer Center response from representative TSR15 
	Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:09:50 -0500 (EST) 
	From: FCCInfo <[email-masked]> 
	Organization: FCC 
	To:  [email-masked] 

	You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the
FCC on 
	12/9/2003 8:09:45 AM. 

	Hello Mr. Daniels, 

	Signal Boosters Bi-Directional Amplifiers or BDA's are only
permitted 
	for use by licensee's only. 

	Please see the FCC Rules and Regulations CFR 47 Part 22.527. 
	http://wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html 

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=22&SEC
TION=527&YEAR=2002&TYPE=TEXT 

	Best Regards, 
	Donna 
	GCC15 
	------------------------------- 

	Subject: Do I need a license ? 
	Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:46:40 -0700 
	From: Jack Daniel <[email-masked]> 
	To: [email-masked] 

	I want to buy two signal boosters (also called Bi-Directional
Amplifiers 
	or BDA's) and install them in office buildings. 

	One signal booster will be used for cellular system handsets. 

	One signal booster will be used for Nextel handsets. 

	These signal boosters will not be used for any other purpose. 

	Someone told me I needed a license (or permission from the
cellular 
	company and Nextel) to operate these signal boosters on cellular
and 
	Nextel channels. 

	Some manufacturers say I don't have to have a license. 

	Do I need a license (or the licensees permission) to operate
signal 
	boosters on cellular and Nextel channels? 

	If I'm supposed to have a license, what is the penalty if I
don't get a 
	license (or the licensee's permission) to operate a signal
booster on 
	cellular or Nextel channels? 

	Since I own handsets on both these systems doesn't that also
give me the 
	right to amplify these signals as much as I want without a
license of 
	any kind? 

	Thanks, 
	Jack Daniel 
	[email-masked] 
	=================================== 

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From: Jack Daniel <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:07:24 -0800

Roger,

When you're right your right. 

Just like you, I didn't read the FCC reply carefully and fired this off
thinking I had an answer.

Well, I was wrong!

Just like the three telephone conversations I've has with FCC (one
almost 2 hours long) they don't listen to the questions and have little
understanding of their own rules. One FCC guy was even advising me to
get an experimental license or a waiver to use a signal booster.
Geeze...  

90.219 is clear to me about Nextel BDA's, but people who sell Nextel
signal boosters to the public don't pay any attention to it.

Thanks to Roger, I went back and re-read the original R&O (FCC 96-223)
and the various deliberations and found the FCC's comments about
cellular signal boosters in paragraph 3 very interesting;

"Under Part 22, a form of signal booster, generally called a cellular
repeater, may be employed by cellular licensees without separate
licensing provided that the repeater does not extend the licensee's
signal beyond the authorized cellular service area. " (22.165 cited) 

Part 22 definitions say, " Cellular repeater. In the Cellular
Radiotelephone Service, a stationary transmitter or device that
automatically re-radiates the transmissions of base transmitters at a
particular cell site and mobile stations communicating with those base
transmitters, with or without channel translation." Since these devices
are used at a "cell site", they appreantly aren't for typical
in-building installations. 

Part 22 does define 'signal boosters' as a different device than a
'cellular repeater' and within Part 22 says signal boosters muct be FCC
approved (22.377) and can be used by PAGING licensees (22.527) but
nothing about cellular licensees.

Does this mean the FCC - NEVER - approved the use of any "signal
boosters" for cellular and PCS services, even by the licensees?  

On what grounds did the FCC grant cellular and PCS "signal booster"
equipment certifications? (maybe they thought they were all for paging?) 

Maybe landmobilelawyer or someone can help me out here. I'm too ignorant
to understand all this.

I guess I need to change my way of thinking to be in sync with everyone
else; The FCC isn't going to enforce the rules anyway, so why should I
be sweating rules even the FCC themselves don't understand.
 
Sorry for the false hope.
Jack Daniel
=========================================

Madden, Roger wrote:
> different one for Part 24 ?1.9 GHz? Personal Communications Services,
........ snip ..............

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:19:45 -0500

Jack,

I though we finally had a clear cut answer on this one and it was "NO"' I guess
not.

Rather that playing with the Wireless Supply chain at the bureau. How about I (or you)
forward the original question to John at WTB and let him send it to the right
people? Maybe this will send a signal to the FCC that the "FCC Consumer Center"
responses need to be reviewed.

---

From: Jack Daniel <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:26:06 -0800

Marcel,

Please pass it on to anybody that might help.

Thanks
Jack Daniel
=============================

[email-masked] wrote:
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:58:50 -0500

Roger Dat-