Subject: [NEXTEL-1] Interview: New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly Responds To Questions Raised After The 9-11 Commission Hearings (May 23)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:10:22 -0400

Interview: New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly Responds To
Questions Raised After The 9-11 Commission Hearings (May 23)

POSTED: 7:35 am EDT May 23, 2004

GABE PRESSMAN, Host: -- Anger and frustration boiled over at the 9-11
Commission hearings held in Greenwich Village this past week. Some who
lost loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy jeered at commission members for
asking what they called `softball' questions of former Fire Commissioner
Von Essen and Police Commissioner Kerik, and of former Mayor Giuliani.
Family members wanted the commission to zero in on the city's readiness
to deal with massive terror attacks then and now. Several commission
members agreed, saying, `New York City still is dangerously unprepared
to deal with another terrorist strike.' One member called the city's
disaster response plans `not worthy of the Boy Scouts.'
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, now leader of the city's more than 35,000
police officers, is responsible for the safety of all New Yorkers today.
What about criticism of the city's disaster response plan? What's he
doing to fix what might be wrong?
Announcer: From Studio 6B in Rockefeller Center, this is a presentation
from News Channel 4, Gabe Pressman's NEWS FORUM. Now your host, senior
correspondent, Gabe Pressman.

PRESSMAN: And Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly is our guest today on
NEWS FORUM.
Welcome. Good morning, Commissioner.

Commissioner RAYMOND KELLY (New York City Police Department): Good to be
with you, Gabe.

PRESSMAN: Commissioner, there's--there was a report on Friday that
terrorists may be zeroing on some of the commuter railroads in the
Northeast. Are you dealing with that eventuality, that problem or that
possibility?

Commissioner KELLY: Well, we've been dealing with it for--for quite a
while. I think this most recent report had something to do with some
sort of monitoring device found on the tracks near--near Philadelphia.
But I think, consistent with that, Secretary--I guess Undersecretary
Hutchinson of Homeland Security has put out some information that TSA,
the Transportation Security Administration, is now going to be more
involved in--in trains. Actually, some of their personnel are going to
be shifted to doing screening for--for trains. Obviously, it's a totally
different environment than airports. They realize that. But we're going
to see some--some of that coming down the pike.

PRESSMAN: Do you--do you know which way to turn? And, I mean, there are
commuter railroads, there are subways, there are bridges and tunnels.
It's--it's such a vast target that we seem to be making just because
we're New York City.

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah. And that's our post-9/11 world that we--we
live in. New York City is a target, and I think it's--it--it's good to
get that out, not to--not to sugarcoat it. The--there is a consensus in
the intelligence community that New York is certainly close to the top,
if not at the top, of the terrorist target list. This is the most
symbolically and substantively important target to them. So we're doing
everything we can to protect the city.

PRESSMAN: Is it likely that terrorists will hit New York City again?

Commissioner KELLY: Well, I--I wouldn't use the term `likely,' and I
wouldn't say it's inevitable. I think every day we are doing more to--to
protect the city. I think the federal government is--is rolling up
people outside the--the country and, you know, bringing--bringing people
into custody. Other countries are--are doing that.  Their--their
leadership certainly has been impacted. But we still face a substantial
threat, there's no question about it. And I think--again, it's good to
take that issue head-on.

PRESSMAN: In a sense, you've set up the NYPD's own CIA to try to counter
terrorism, not only here, but in other parts of the world, to get
information there, at least.

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah. Well, we're not looking to supplant, by any
means, any other agency; we're looking to supplement. We want to get
anything--any piece of information we can to better protect the city.
That--that's our mission. We do work with our--our federal partners, but
New York is--is unique. It is an international city.  It--it is a
target. And we want to increase the flow of information from--from
overseas.

PRESSMAN: And you've stationed people in places like, I guess, Rome to
Tel Aviv, various capitals around the world.

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah, they're--they're working with national police
forces--actually, we're in Lyon, France, which is where Interpol is--is
headquartered.  We're in Tel Awiv--Aviv. We're in London, Toronto,
Montreal, Singapore. And we're looking to put our offices in other
cities as well.

PRESSMAN: Is that on the theory that the federal government has its
hands full and New York has to be ready to take a lot of the burden?

Commissioner KELLY: No. It--it--it's on the theory that
we're--we're--we're looking to increase the flow of i--of information;
as I say, not to supplant or substitute in any way what the federal
government is doing, but to increase the flow of information in
recognition of our unique status as being a city that's been targeted
for attacks six times in the last decade, twice successfully. So...

PRESSMAN: What is Lieutenant General Frank Libutti doing? What is the
other gentleman that you've employed recently...

Commissioner KELLY: Well, Frank--Frank Libutti was our first deputy
commissioner of counterterrorism. He now is an undersecretary at
Homeland Security in Washington.  He did a great job for us. He's been
replaced by Mike Sheehan, a consummate professional. He's our deputy
commissioner of counterterrorism. Mike was on President Bush I and--and
President Clinton's staff in the National Security Board and also a
former Green Beret, a graduate of West Point, a combat-experienced
officer. He's got great contacts, and he's doing a lot of imaginative
and energetic things to help us protect the city.

PRESSMAN: And David Cohen, the other hire?

Commissioner KELLY: David Cohen has also been terrific. David had 35
years in the Central Intelligence Agency. He's our deputy commissioner
for intelligence, and it--David has done just terrific things in--in
kind of refocusing our intelligence division.  He's identified people
with language skills. Interdepartment we have about 250 certified
interpreters that we have in uniform, members of the department, for the
most part, in languages such as Urdu and Pashto and--and Farsi,
languages that we need in this day and age. And he's got excellent
contacts, as well, throughout the world and in the federal government.
So he's been a tremendous asset.

PRESSMAN: I know recently--recently, I understand, he was very concerned
about what happened, the foiling of a plot in London to set off
chemicals inside the subway system, the underground there.

Commissioner KELLY: Well, we work closely with the...

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Commissioner KELLY: ...the British authorities. Actually, I just met
with Sir John Stevens, the head of the British Metropolitan Police,
about a week and a half ago. So we do exchange information on a--on a
regular basis.

PRESSMAN: What can you tell the average New Yorker about the possibility
of a terrorist attack again to New York?

Commissioner KELLY: It certainly is possible; no question about that. We
don't have specific information. That's part of the--you know, the
frustration that we--you know, we all experience. But the--yes, it
certainly--it--it could happen. We're doing everything we reasonably can
do in this city to--to prevent it. And that's our focus, prevention. And
then, of course, we have to be prepared to respond if--if there is an
issue.

PRESSMAN: Right. In the 9-11 Commission hearings that were held this
past week, in which there was an outburst by families who lost loved
ones in the attacks because they felt that basic questions weren't being
answered, the charges were that there was poor planning, faulty
equipment, poor communications between the police and fire departments.
And I wonder what your view is of the situation, then and now?

Commissioner KELLY: Oh, of course, the hearings had to be a--you know, a
heart-wrenching experience for anyone who's lost a loved one at the
World Trade Center. The issue of--of the inability of policemen and fire
to communicate on September 11th is really greatly m--overblown.
Any--any coordination that should have taken place, of course, would
have taken place at that--at the OEM facility that, unfortunately, was
in Building Seven and...

PRESSMAN: The--the Office of Emergency Management.

Commissioner KELLY: ...and was destroyed. Yeah. But there was--there was
coordination on the ground. But as far as radio communications, I think
most of the concerns were involving the fire department's ability to
communicate internally and not--not communicate by radio with--with the
police department. So that kind of notion is out there. But if you look
at the specifics, it really had virtually nothing to do with police,
fire, radio communications (unintelligible).

PRESSMAN: Do you think that communication lack has been remedied?

Commissioner KELLY: Yes, it has. We have interoperability now to the
extent that's needed. You know, the police and fire do separate jobs.
They do different jobs, and people seem to, you know, over--overlook
that. We do have capacity now for commanders to talk--talk to each
other. Indeed, we have the ability now to talk--to have firefighters and
police officers, usually police officers from Emergency Services
Division, talk on a tactical frequency at--at the scene of a particular
event. So it has been addressed.

PRESSMAN: And yet, the police helicopter that saw certain things
happening could not--or that information was not communicated, according
to some of the testimony at the hearings.

Commissioner KELLY: Well, you have to look closely at the--at that
issue.

PRESSMAN: Yeah.
Commissioner KELLY: The first building fell at--at 9:59. And then the
buil--the--the repeater system for the fire department was in that--in
the south--the south tower.  The communication--that controller from the
police helicopter is at 10:08. So we're talking nine minutes after
tower--the south tower falls. And words to the effect that `it looks
like the tower was--is leaning,' or something along those lines. There
had been numerous calls for evacuation before that by fire personnel.
So, again, you have to look at the--the sequence of--of events. The
first tower had already fallen. A--a f--fire--marine unit in the--in the
water, a--a boat, had already communicated that to fire headquarters
that the first tower had fallen.

PRESSMAN: When--when--when the former secretary of the Navy, John
Lehman, said that the city's disaster response plans were not worthy of
the Boy Scouts, were a scandal, was he wrong?
Commissioner KELLY: It was really a--a ludicrous comment, well over the
top. John Lehman i--is--is somebody who certainly knows how to get a
headline. And I think that's what that was aimed at. It was
inappropriate. It was--it was just simply m--wrong.

PRESSMAN: And when he says that the mayor--Mayor Bloomberg's recent
emergency resp--response plan simply puts in concrete--I'm quoting
Lehman--"a clearly dysfunctional system." What's your reaction to that?
Commissioner KELLY: Yeah, I--I--I think--well, I--I thought the--the
commission staff did--did good work. I've read their--their reports, and
I've--I think the--the presentation that they made to introduce the
hearings was--was a good one. I think the commission is--needed to do a
lot more homework themselves. They simply seemed to be uninformed,
although they were able to make some pretty emotional statements that
really wasn't based on--on knowledge. And I think that was one of them.

PRESSMAN: Well, let's come back and discuss that further after this
message.
(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: Back here with Police Commissioner Kelly.
I'd like to ask you about the conventions and what's going to be the
drill there for you and the--and the members of the police department.
But, first, there's been some criticism by union officials of the fact
that under the new plans the police department's going to handle
hazardous materials, and the fire department says that they've been
trained for years in--in handling those materials. Is there--is there a
danger there that expertise will be lost?

Commissioner KELLY: No, I--I think both organizations do have expertise.
Their missions are slightly different, and I think they changed somewhat
as a result of the--the threat of terrorism. I think the initial
assessment of--of material is going to be done by the--the department.
Clearly, the fire department has expertise in that area. They handle
haz-mat situations every day. Gross decontamination is something that
they do al--very well. Again, people want to, you know, look for person
in charge and--and--and agencies are not going to be working together.
This is a--a complex world that we find our--ourselves in. We can think
of lots of events that involve chemical, biological, radiological
elements, explosions, fires. This plan calls for collaborative
management of--of major events with the mayor in--in charge, so-called
...(unintelligible).

PRESSMAN: You--you don't--you think that--you think that's possible and
feasible?

Commissioner KELLY: I do. I think it's gonna work.

PRESSMAN: And you think that the--the traditional competitiveness of the
two departments is not going to be an obstacle?
Commissioner KELLY: No, I--I think the--you know, the--the
competitiveness that you--you speak about is--is largely on a--on a
sports field. When it has--when you have these occasional incidents, it
is actually accrued to the benefit of the public. It's usually about
bringing service more--more quickly to--to the public. But I know it
makes great press, and the press likes this--this stuff, you know, the
battle of the badges and the--again, it...

PRESSMAN: Yeah.

Commissioner KELLY: ...two agencies I would submit are the best in the
world at--at what they do, and they've proven it time and time again.
They're proud organizations.  They want to--want to provide service. And
I think this construct will...

PRESSMAN: ...(Unintelligible).

Commissioner KELLY: ...will help do that even more.

PRESSMAN: As far the--as the approaching convention is concerned, does
it--does it present a very--the Republican National Convention in
August, does it present a very heavy problem of security?

Commissioner KELLY: Well, it prevents challenges, yes. I mean, we have
this terrorist threat, this overarching terrorist threat that we face
every day in this city. Now we have added to that a convention. We have
the incumbent administration coming to town with all of its leaders. You
have a--a record that people want to demonstrate on. You know? This is
the forum to do it. You know, there'll be people here. A vast majority
of demonstrators will come here. It will be peaceful. They'll--they want
to get their--their message out. But there will be some who are focused
on causing problems. We know that. We read the Internet. We--you know,
this is not--not a--not a secret. But so...

PRESSMAN: By problems, you mean violence...

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah. Yeah.

PRESSMAN: Some violence, some confrontations with the police, with...
Commissioner KELLY: We'll have some of that. We hope it's--it's minimal.
But we'll have--again, the vast majority of people here to demonstrate,
demonstrate peacefully. But you have, you know, on top of that,
this--this threat of--of terrorism that we address...

PRESSMAN: ...(Unintelligible).

Commissioner KELLY: ...every day. So you have, you know, the leaders of
our--our--our government here...

PRESSMAN: Right.

Commissioner KELLY: ...at that--at that time as well.

PRESSMAN: Is there a conflict built into the situation between providing
security and giving people the right to express themselves under the
First Amendment?

Commissioner KELLY: I--I--I don't think there--you know, there's a
conflict. It--it--it does--again, as I say, provide the--or gives us
challenges to--to do that, to allow people to voice their opinions
freely and openly and also provide security for the city, for the
principals who are going to be here, for the delegates, for the press
that are going to be here.

PRESSMAN: Yeah. How close will--will people who are protesting be
allowed to get to the convention itself?

Commissioner KELLY: Well, we'll--we'll do everything we can to give them
sight and sound. That's our operating philosophy. Sight of
their--their--their target and the ability to have sound, you might say.
It--you know, be heard at the--at the target location. There will not
only be demonstrations at the...

PRESSMAN: Yeah. Right.

Commissioner KELLY: ...convention site, there will be demonstrations
other locations throughout the city.

PRESSMAN: Have any permits been given out yet for ...(unintelligible).

Commissioner KELLY: Not--not as yet.

PRESSMAN: Not as yet.

Commissioner KELLY: Because we have asked that anyone who wants to have
a demonstration to submit their application by June 15th. We have to see
the whole playing field before we can start making determinations. And
also adjustments. You know, we negotiate with these groups.

PRESSMAN: They've been--they...

Commissioner KELLY: They--you know, they want to walk down, you know,
Fifth Avenue at 2:00 in the afternoon on a workday or something like
that. You know--well, you know, we have an alternate proposal. So, you
know, that sort of negotiation...

PRESSMAN: Will the delegates actually see the demonstrators?

Commissioner KELLY: It--it--it depends. It depends on where--and
the--the delegates are free to, you know, walk throughout the city.
They're not going to be locked up.  And I--you know, in their hotel
rooms. They're going to be out, they're going to be going to the
restaurants, going to--to shows. So...

PRESSMAN: Yeah. Yeah.

Commissioner KELLY: ...I assume they're going to be seeing the
demonstrators.

PRESSMAN: Security costs are zooming up. Your estimates go up almost
weekly, it seems, the cost of providing security.

Commissioner KELLY: Well, I think there is a certain Madrid factor, you
know, with what happened in--in Madrid. So, you know, our plans have
changed somewhat to increase the level of security.

PRESSMAN: The attack on Madrid.

Commissioner KELLY: There is also a--there is a kind of a hardware cost.
There's a personnel cost. That--you know, pretty--pretty consistent now.

PRESSMAN: So the Madrid factor, the explosion on the trains that killed
people--many people, this certainly has escalated the cost of security.

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah. I think it's reasonable to say that terrorists
would be soon to be emboldened by the events of--of Madrid. They
impacted on a government, on an election.

PRESSMAN: What specific recourse would you say you're...

Commissioner KELLY: Well, just the--the--the additional coverage for
additional locations, you know, throughout the city.

PRESSMAN: And you're hoping to get federal funds to help you.

Commissioner KELLY: Yes, we are. We've gotten some federal help. We hope
to get more federal help.

PRESSMAN: And actually, as the mayor pointed out when he testified to
the commission, there are--What?--something like 80 cities, places in
the country. Many of them are not really prime targets and on the per
capita--per capita basis, New York is getting very little compared to,
say...

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah.

PRESSMAN: ...Townsend, Wyoming.

Commissioner KELLY: Right. This is a different issue than--than the
convention, but the--we're talking about a different funding stream. But
you're right. But what has happened is the number of high-threat
locations that are in the universe, in the pool to receive money has
increased from seven to actually 50 municipalities, locations, and 30
transportation districts, so--and the amount of money has been reduced.
It's now a little over $3 billion, which might sound like a lot of
money, but it's really a drop in the bucket when you're talking about
protecting...

PRESSMAN: When you slice it up.

Commissioner KELLY: ...the entire country. So the pie has gotten
smaller, and there's a lot more pieces to the pie as we've gone--gone
forward. So I think that's clearly what the mayor's message--where's
the--we need more help for ongoing operational expenses from the federal
government...

PRESSMAN: Besides ...(unintelligible). Yeah.

Commissioner KELLY: ...because we're protecting America here. You know,
we're protecting America's assets. We're protecting international assets
in this city on our own dollar, for the most part.

PRESSMAN: Are you--you're not satisfied with what the federal government
is proposing so far or has allocated?
Commissioner KELLY: No, we're not. That's correct, we're not. And we'll
continue to talk to them.

PRESSMAN: But--yeah. Let's come back, Commissioner, after this.
(Announcements)

PRESSMAN: Back here with Commissioner Kelly.
Commissioner, is it very disheartening to you that New York gets a
smaller piece of the pie, as the the pork--the pork barrel that the
mayor was talking about is extended to places like Wyoming?

Commissioner KELLY: Yeah. Well, you know, it--it's business as usual
in--in Washington. You know, we're at a--a heightened state of alert
here. We--we feel that, you know, we're in the--in the crosshairs, and
yet business goes on in Washington as--as usual. And, you know, these
are--these are decisions that are made as a result of--of pressure
from--from Congress. You can't equate Fresno, California, Louisville,
Kentucky with--with New York. These are some of the cities that are in
the universe of--of cities that, you know, are getting additional
funding.

PRESSMAN: You grew up in Manhattan, didn't you, Commissioner?

Commissioner KELLY: I did.

PRESSMAN: In your early days on Columbus Avenue, were there gang fights
in the neighborhood?

Commissioner KELLY: There certainly were. It was a "West Side Story"
situation there, but the West Side now is a--is a much quieter place, a
much nicer place than it was in those days.

PRESSMAN: Did you stay out of the crosshairs of the gang warfare?

Commissioner KELLY: I--I tried to, for the most part, but there were a
few occasions that I had to get involved.

PRESSMAN: You're a colonel in the Marine Corps.

Commissioner KELLY: Well, I was, yes.

PRESSMAN: Your sons both went into the Marine Corps, is that correct?

Commissioner KELLY: No, only--only one son went in the Marine Corps.

PRESSMAN: Gregory.

Commissioner KELLY: Right.

PRESSMAN: The young one.

Commissioner KELLY: Yes.

PRESSMAN: Who's now a journalist.

Commissioner KELLY: He's now with Fox News. Can I say that part? I don't
know if I can say it. OK.

PRESSMAN: Yeah, you can say it.

Commissioner KELLY: Cable, you know.

PRESSMAN: And the model of the Marine Corps, of course, is semper fi,
semper fidelis, which means always faithful. Do you see that motto as
affecting your devotion to New York City?

Commissioner KELLY: Well, New York has been very good to me. The police
department, I--I owe everything I have to the department in so many
ways. So I--I--I would like to think--hope that I'm faithful to the--to
the department and the city of New York, yeah. It's been good to me.

PRESSMAN: Your father--your father was a milkman. Is that correct?

Commissioner KELLY: That's correct. (Unintelligible). And then he worked
in later life for the Internal Revenue Service.
PRESSMAN: And your mother?

Commissioner KELLY: My mother was a checker in Macy's. You know, when
you go into a fitting room and, you know, tell you how many--how many of
pieces of clothing brought in. But, yes, my mother worked in Macy's.
Macy's was very good for my mother.

PRESSMAN: When you and your wife Veronica returned to your apartment
downtown and saw the remains of the World Trade Center, I understand
that she--she wept. Did you?

Commissioner KELLY: No. I--I h--I had seen it before, of course, but
I--I brought her there, too, and it was a gut-wrenching experience,
though. I mean, I--I--it took me a long time--because we live right down
there, too, and--to accept the--the void in the sky. I mean, it's just
such a horrific event.

PRESSMAN: Thank you very much, Commissioner Kelly, for joining us this
morning. This is Gabe Pressman. Good day.

© 2004 by WNBC.com.

http://www.wnbc.com/news/3336819/detail.html

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