
From nobody Tue Jun  1 02:36:54 2021
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To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:36:44 +0200
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Subject: [mpls] Soliciting agenda items for the upcoming Open DT on Thursday (2021-06-03)
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Design team,

I have posted a very tentative agenda for the upcoming meeting:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/2021-06-03-agenda

We are soliciting more agenda items, please send mail to the working 
group chairs.

/Loa
-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From nobody Tue Jun  1 20:59:30 2021
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org" <draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Hi,

I am selected as a MPLS-RT reviewer of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain=
-oam.

After review, I think the problem that the draft is trying to address is va=
lid and useful. The solution is overall workable. My comments are mainly ab=
out Type 3 and Type 4 segment sub-TLV, I think it's better to address these=
 comments before the adoption.

Type 3 and 4 sub-TLVs are supposed to be used when the headend/PMS does not=
 have the labels or SRGB information of the remote nodes, and assume that t=
he receiving node (egress node) can derive the MPLS labels according to the=
 IPv4/IPv6 addresses. This assumption may not hold, because given that the =
headend/PMS does not have the information, it is very likely that the recei=
ving node has no the information either. So the draft should add more text =
to clarify the use cases of type 3, 4 sub-TLVs, or just remove them.

In addition, given type 3 and 4 have valid use case, the optional SID field=
s of type 3 and 4 are redundant, I think that they should be removed.=20

Section 4,=20
"Below types of segment sub-TLVs are applicable for the Reverse Path
   Segment List TLV."

Should the "Reverse Path Segment List TLV" be "Return Path TLV"?

Best regards,
Mach


From nobody Wed Jun  2 10:34:25 2021
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 19:34:13 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: kireeti@juniper.net, mpls@ietf.org
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Subject: [mpls] kireeti/mpls: draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa / draft-bryant-mpls-aux-data-pointer
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Some thoughts about the functionality and approaches of these two drafts:

Kireetis draft re-designates ca. 8 bits of new SPLs, called FAI SPL.
Every bit indicates a particular forwarding action which is
conditionally executed whent he bit is set. Some of these
conditional actions may require ancillary data below BoS.

IMHO, the best of this proposal is the designation of those
bits to indicate potentially for every hop, which forwarding
actions to take. And the worst part of the proposal is that it
is not extensible, because each bit has a hard-coded semantic.
Another core issue raised by some is of course the question
if/how the ancillary data has to be structured to be most
easily parsable.

Stewarts draft attempts to generalize the use of 8 bits of the SPL
by using it as an 8-bit value pointing to (a block of) ancillary
data below BoS. The goal was to be also indicating which 
function (as indicated by the ancillary data) needs to be
executed by a hop(s) but to be more easily extensible, and
make packets easier to parse. This comes at the downside of
requiring 8-bits for "just" a single block of ancillary data.

Given how i think we have no clear agreement what can and can not
be easily parsed, i wanted to suggest a "best of both worlds"
packet header to see how folks think about "parsability":

In the MPLS labels Stack:

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|Forwarding Actions Indicator(FAI) SPL  |.|. .|.|0|1|2|3|4|5|6 7|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Instead of fixed actions indicated by Kireetis proposal,
we have 8 conditional action bis {0,...7}, each one indicating
a conditional action: If a particular bit is set, its associated
action is executed. Else that action is not executed.

Below BoS:

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|C| ID  | Action    |   Length  | ...
...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|C| ID  | Action    |   Length  |                              
...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Aka: below BoS, we have a sequence of ancillary data blocks,
which are self-identifying by their action (aka: type) and
chained by length.

When an ancillar data block has it's
C)onditional bit set, then it's ID field indicates which of
the 8 conditional action it is being referred to. For example if
C=1 and ID=5, then this action would only be executed if
bit 5 of the FAI SPL was set. If C=0, the three ID bits could
have other semantics than ID.

If an Action has no further data, it is just 16 bits long
in this encoding. Up to 64 actions, up to 128 byte
length of ancillary data if the unit of Length is 16 bits.

Of course, any of these encoding details are up for discussion,
the main point is to use 8 bits in the FAI to indicate
8 conditional actions in an extensible fashion.

If this proposal looks appealing from the perspective of
extensibility, flexibility and per-hop conditional action
encodings, then the main question really is how we
are vetting what can and can-not be easily done by
high-speed (Terrabits) packet parsers. E.g.: is this
in the same "complexity" ball park as oher proposals.

And i would love us to start having rules of what is and is
not acceptable parsable instead of just "eyeballing" it.

Cheers
    Toerless


From nobody Wed Jun  2 15:18:24 2021
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Dear Sharaddha, et al.,
my apologies for sending out my notes in an unreadable format. 

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: gregory mirsky10211915
To: ShraddhaHegde;
CC: loa@pi.nu;mpls@ietf.org;draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org;mpls-chairs@ietf.org;
Date: 2021/06/01 15:54
Subject: Re:[mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam
Hi Shraddha,
thank you for your answers to my review. Please find my follow-up notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
Sender: ShraddhaHegde
To: gregory mirsky10211915;loa@pi.nu;mpls@ietf.org;draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org;mpls-chairs@ietf.org;
Date: 2021/05/31 10:18
Subject: RE: Re:[mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam
#zreadTextPanel v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  #zreadTextPanel o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  #zreadTextPanel w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  #zreadTextPanel .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}Hi Greg,
Thanks for the review and comments.
Pls see inline for the reply.
Juniper Business Use Only
From: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:40 AM
To: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re:[mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam
[External Email. Be cautious of content]
Dear Authors, WG Chairs, et al.,
I've been asked to review the draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam. I've concentrated on three criteria:
clarity of the document
the technical value of the problem addressed
technical feasability of the proposed solution
Below are my notes on these three aspects:
The document is reasonably well-written and is readable.
I couldn't find a sufficient technical explanation for introducing a new mechanism for the inter-domain ping/traceroute in addition to the one described in  RFC 7743.
<Shraddha> Introduction section has some text on how this draft is different from RFC 7743
“   [RFC7743] describes a Echo-relay based solution based on advertising
a new Relay Node Address Stack TLV containing stack of Echo-relay ip
addresses.  That mechanism requires the return ping packet to reach
the control plane on every relay node.”
Basically, RFC 7743 mechanism requires that the relay nodes receive reply packet interpret it and then forward further.
This draft is proposing much simplified solution which does not require control plane involvement on intermediate nodes.
It uses segment routing forwarding plane. I can add some more text to clarify this.
GIM>> What role or actions of the control plane, in your opinion, is required in RFC 7743? I agree with you that the proposed in this draft solution is different from the one described in RFC 7743. But, as I understand it, RFC 7743 is equally applicable to the SR-MPLS case, and it appears that the problem of e2e LSP ping in a multi-domain case is already being addressed.
It seems that the proposed mechanism has several issues:
Three types of SID sub-TLVs are defined, but only use of one is mentioned in the document.
I couldn't find an explanation of the relationship between IPv4/IPv6 Node Address and SID in Type 3 and Type 4 sub-TLVs, respectively
Also, in which scenario the SID field in Type 3 and Type 4 sub-TLVs is recommended?
<Shraddha> Type 3 and type 4 is useful when the SRGB of the  remote node is not available on the headend/PMS that is constructing the return path TLV.
The IPv4 node address is used by the receiving node to create mpls label from it’s own SRGB.  The SID is optional. It can be added if the PMS/headend knows the
SID. There is no strong usecase for the optional SID field. These TLV structure are directly derived from the SR policy TLV structures in order to be consistent with the
Segment routing conventions of describing a path.
I’ll add a new section to describe this.
And further, traceroute mode is called out of the scope of RFC 7743. I've read the explanation of traceroute in the draft, and I don't think it is a workable solution.
<Shraddha> The draft defines two different solutions for trace route. The headend/PMS constructed is define in sec 7.2 and the dynamically constructed return path
Described in section 8. Which one are you saying isn’t workable? Also would be helpful if you can specify details of why you think it will not work.
GIM>> As I recall the traceroute mode described in RFC 8029 and RFC 8287, TTL expiration is used s the exception mechanism. I couldn't find in the draft the explanation of which exception mechanisms are used to trace an SR-MPLS e2e tunnel. Also, the mechanism described in Section 7.2 appears as series of LSP pings rather than tracing a path through.
I don't feel that the draft is ready for WG adoption at this point.
I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and looking forward to discussing them with the authors.
Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
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To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org" <draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Hi Mach,

Thanks for the review.
Pls see inline ...


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:29 AM
To: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Hi,

I am selected as a MPLS-RT reviewer of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain=
-oam.

After review, I think the problem that the draft is trying to address is va=
lid and useful. The solution is overall workable. My comments are mainly ab=
out Type 3 and Type 4 segment sub-TLV, I think it's better to address these=
 comments before the adoption.
<Shraddha> Sure.

Type 3 and 4 sub-TLVs are supposed to be used when the headend/PMS does not=
 have the labels or SRGB information of the remote nodes,
<Shraddha> yes because  these remote nodes lie in a different domain and SR=
GB information may not be available
at the headend in some cases.

 and assume that the receiving node (egress node) can derive the MPLS label=
s according to the IPv4/IPv6 addresses.=20
<Shraddha>=20
I will add a section with  example of multi-domain network with different S=
RGB and explain how Type 3 and Type 4
Segments can be used while building the return path dynamically for tracero=
ute. The key is only the top segment has to be Type 3/Type 4 the remaining =
segments to be of type label. For the Top segment, label has to be derived =
from the SRGB of the receiving node (not someone else's) so its expected to=
 be available.


This assumption may not hold, because given that the headend/PMS does not h=
ave the information, it is very likely that the receiving node has no the i=
nformation either. So the draft should add more text to clarify the use cas=
es of type 3, 4 sub-TLVs, or just remove them.
<shraddha> I'll add more text to describe clearly how type3/Type 4 should b=
e used.

In addition, given type 3 and 4 have valid use case, the optional SID field=
s of type 3 and 4 are redundant, I think that they should be removed.
<shraddha> SIDs are optional anyway. I would prefer to keep it in order to =
be consistent with segment routing
path description.

Section 4,
"Below types of segment sub-TLVs are applicable for the Reverse Path
   Segment List TLV."

Should the "Reverse Path Segment List TLV" be "Return Path TLV"?
<shraddha> Good catch. I'll fix it.

Best regards,
Mach=


From nobody Wed Jun  2 21:36:46 2021
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam
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From nobody Thu Jun  3 18:55:19 2021
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>, "draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org" <draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 01:55:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for considering the comments, looking forward to the revision.

Best regards,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shraddha Hegde [mailto:shraddha@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 12:30 PM
> To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>;
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-0=
2
>=20
> Hi Mach,
>=20
> Thanks for the review.
> Pls see inline ...
>=20
>=20
> Juniper Business Use Only
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:29 AM
> To: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
>=20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I am selected as a MPLS-RT reviewer of
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam.
>=20
> After review, I think the problem that the draft is trying to address is =
valid and
> useful. The solution is overall workable. My comments are mainly about Ty=
pe 3
> and Type 4 segment sub-TLV, I think it's better to address these comments
> before the adoption.
> <Shraddha> Sure.
>=20
> Type 3 and 4 sub-TLVs are supposed to be used when the headend/PMS does
> not have the labels or SRGB information of the remote nodes, <Shraddha> y=
es
> because  these remote nodes lie in a different domain and SRGB informatio=
n
> may not be available at the headend in some cases.
>=20
>  and assume that the receiving node (egress node) can derive the MPLS lab=
els
> according to the IPv4/IPv6 addresses.
> <Shraddha>
> I will add a section with  example of multi-domain network with different=
 SRGB
> and explain how Type 3 and Type 4 Segments can be used while building the
> return path dynamically for traceroute. The key is only the top segment h=
as to be
> Type 3/Type 4 the remaining segments to be of type label. For the Top seg=
ment,
> label has to be derived from the SRGB of the receiving node (not someone =
else's)
> so its expected to be available.
>=20
>=20
> This assumption may not hold, because given that the headend/PMS does not
> have the information, it is very likely that the receiving node has no th=
e
> information either. So the draft should add more text to clarify the use =
cases of
> type 3, 4 sub-TLVs, or just remove them.
> <shraddha> I'll add more text to describe clearly how type3/Type 4 should=
 be
> used.
>=20
> In addition, given type 3 and 4 have valid use case, the optional SID fie=
lds of type
> 3 and 4 are redundant, I think that they should be removed.
> <shraddha> SIDs are optional anyway. I would prefer to keep it in order t=
o be
> consistent with segment routing
> path description.
>=20
> Section 4,
> "Below types of segment sub-TLVs are applicable for the Reverse Path
>    Segment List TLV."
>=20
> Should the "Reverse Path Segment List TLV" be "Return Path TLV"?
> <shraddha> Good catch. I'll fix it.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Mach


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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Hi All,

I'm late to this party. Sorry. Responding on the top of thread to make it
easier to find.

I understand why you use the term "domain" and it would be perfectly
reasonable except that RFC 8402 takes that term and gives it very specific
meaning, admittedly as "SR domain" most of the time, but degrading to just
"domain" on page 7. 8402 does also have one mention of "IGP domain" and one
of "routing domain". Section 4.2 got away with "source-routed inter-domain
paths" while Section 8 says that SR operates "within a trusted domain" with
traffic filtering at domain boundaries (section 8.1 has a lot of information
that should be relevant to this document).

Recently, there has been a lot of confusion (in the IESG, for example) as to
what the scope and limits of an "SR domain" are. I think that a lot of this
comes from Section 8 of RFC 8402. At the very least, there was a
misunderstanding of the intended scope of SR since (except in a few multi-AS
companies) adjacent ASes to not have a shared trust model.

I suggest that you take some time (probably in Section 1) with a new
subsection on "Definitions of Domain" to try to clarify this.

One thing we noticed in pushing draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway through
the IESG was that it is possible to build on the "SR domain" concept in a
constructive way such that it is constructed of:
- all nodes in the source SR-enabled network
- all nodes in the destination SR-enabled network
- all ASBRs along the path from source to destination network

While it may (or may not) be the case that the transit nodes in an AS are
SR-enabled, it is not important to the way you are building an "SR overlay".

Cheers,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mach Chen
Sent: 04 June 2021 02:55
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>;
draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on
draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02

Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for considering the comments, looking forward to the revision.

Best regards,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shraddha Hegde [mailto:shraddha@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 12:30 PM
> To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>;
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
> 
> Hi Mach,
> 
> Thanks for the review.
> Pls see inline ...
> 
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:29 AM
> To: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
> 
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am selected as a MPLS-RT reviewer of
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam.
> 
> After review, I think the problem that the draft is trying to address is
valid and
> useful. The solution is overall workable. My comments are mainly about
Type 3
> and Type 4 segment sub-TLV, I think it's better to address these comments
> before the adoption.
> <Shraddha> Sure.
> 
> Type 3 and 4 sub-TLVs are supposed to be used when the headend/PMS does
> not have the labels or SRGB information of the remote nodes, <Shraddha>
yes
> because  these remote nodes lie in a different domain and SRGB information
> may not be available at the headend in some cases.
> 
>  and assume that the receiving node (egress node) can derive the MPLS
labels
> according to the IPv4/IPv6 addresses.
> <Shraddha>
> I will add a section with  example of multi-domain network with different
SRGB
> and explain how Type 3 and Type 4 Segments can be used while building the
> return path dynamically for traceroute. The key is only the top segment
has to be
> Type 3/Type 4 the remaining segments to be of type label. For the Top
segment,
> label has to be derived from the SRGB of the receiving node (not someone
else's)
> so its expected to be available.
> 
> 
> This assumption may not hold, because given that the headend/PMS does not
> have the information, it is very likely that the receiving node has no the
> information either. So the draft should add more text to clarify the use
cases of
> type 3, 4 sub-TLVs, or just remove them.
> <shraddha> I'll add more text to describe clearly how type3/Type 4 should
be
> used.
> 
> In addition, given type 3 and 4 have valid use case, the optional SID
fields of type
> 3 and 4 are redundant, I think that they should be removed.
> <shraddha> SIDs are optional anyway. I would prefer to keep it in order to
be
> consistent with segment routing
> path description.
> 
> Section 4,
> "Below types of segment sub-TLVs are applicable for the Reverse Path
>    Segment List TLV."
> 
> Should the "Reverse Path Segment List TLV" be "Return Path TLV"?
> <shraddha> Good catch. I'll fix it.
> 
> Best regards,
> Mach

_______________________________________________
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From nobody Mon Jun  7 06:40:47 2021
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CC: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint@ietf.org, loa@pi.nu, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, mpls-chairs@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org
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Subject: [mpls] Last Call: <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04.txt> (OSPFv3 CodePoint for MPLS LSP Ping) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
(mpls) to consider the following document: - 'OSPFv3 CodePoint for MPLS LSP
Ping'
  <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-06-21. Exceptionally, comments may
be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning
of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   IANA has created "Protocol in the Segment IS Sub-TLV" and "Protocol
   in the Label Stack Sub-TLV of the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV"
   registries under the "Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label
   Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping Parameters" registry.  RFC8287 defines the
   code points for OSPF and IS-IS.

   This document proposes the code point to be used in the Segment ID
   Sub-TLV and Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV when the IGP is OSPFv3.
   This document also updates RFC8287 by clarifying that the existing
   "OSPF" code point is to be used only to indicate OSPFv2, and by
   defining the behavior when the Segment ID SUb-TLV indicates the use
   of IPv6.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint/



No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.






From nobody Wed Jun  9 02:44:39 2021
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Cc: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "pals-chairs@ietf.org" <pals-chairs@ietf.org>, DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>, "spring-chairs@ietf.org" <spring-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: [mpls] Soliciting agenda items for the upcoming Open DT on Thursday (2021-06-10)
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Design Team,

Sorry to run a bit late, but I have posted a agend for the Open DT 
meeting on Thursday:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/2021-06-10-agenda

A couple of meetings ago we had a discussion on indicators and ancillary 
data in and after the label stack. The discussion was helpful and I have 
converted it to text. My intention is that iff we have time will discuss 
it in this meeting.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-andersson-mpls-indicators-and-anxillary-data/

The intention is to try to focus on what is required and what we want to do.

As always - if you have issues that you want to discuss send a mail to
the chairs, we'll find a slot on the agenda, now or next meeting.

/Loa


-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org" <draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/r99cw38p5RPk6oM__8LEn2pnulM>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
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Thanks for the review and comments Adrian.=20
I'll add a new section as per your suggestion.

Rgds
Shraddha


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=20
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 7:21 PM
To: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-=
oam-02

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Hi All,

I'm late to this party. Sorry. Responding on the top of thread to make it e=
asier to find.

I understand why you use the term "domain" and it would be perfectly reason=
able except that RFC 8402 takes that term and gives it very specific meanin=
g, admittedly as "SR domain" most of the time, but degrading to just "domai=
n" on page 7. 8402 does also have one mention of "IGP domain" and one of "r=
outing domain". Section 4.2 got away with "source-routed inter-domain paths=
" while Section 8 says that SR operates "within a trusted domain" with traf=
fic filtering at domain boundaries (section 8.1 has a lot of information th=
at should be relevant to this document).

Recently, there has been a lot of confusion (in the IESG, for example) as t=
o what the scope and limits of an "SR domain" are. I think that a lot of th=
is comes from Section 8 of RFC 8402. At the very least, there was a misunde=
rstanding of the intended scope of SR since (except in a few multi-AS
companies) adjacent ASes to not have a shared trust model.

I suggest that you take some time (probably in Section 1) with a new subsec=
tion on "Definitions of Domain" to try to clarify this.

One thing we noticed in pushing draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway through =
the IESG was that it is possible to build on the "SR domain" concept in a c=
onstructive way such that it is constructed of:
- all nodes in the source SR-enabled network
- all nodes in the destination SR-enabled network
- all ASBRs along the path from source to destination network

While it may (or may not) be the case that the transit nodes in an AS are S=
R-enabled, it is not important to the way you are building an "SR overlay".

Cheers,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mach Chen
Sent: 04 June 2021 02:55
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>; draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-do=
main-oam@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review on
draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02

Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for considering the comments, looking forward to the revision.

Best regards,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shraddha Hegde [mailto:shraddha@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 12:30 PM
> To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>;
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: MPLS-RT review on=20
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
>
> Hi Mach,
>
> Thanks for the review.
> Pls see inline ...
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:29 AM
> To: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: MPLS-RT review on draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-02
>
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am selected as a MPLS-RT reviewer of=20
> draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam.
>
> After review, I think the problem that the draft is trying to address=20
> is
valid and
> useful. The solution is overall workable. My comments are mainly about
Type 3
> and Type 4 segment sub-TLV, I think it's better to address these=20
> comments before the adoption.
> <Shraddha> Sure.
>
> Type 3 and 4 sub-TLVs are supposed to be used when the headend/PMS=20
> does not have the labels or SRGB information of the remote nodes,=20
> <Shraddha>
yes
> because  these remote nodes lie in a different domain and SRGB=20
> information may not be available at the headend in some cases.
>
>  and assume that the receiving node (egress node) can derive the MPLS
labels
> according to the IPv4/IPv6 addresses.
> <Shraddha>
> I will add a section with  example of multi-domain network with=20
> different
SRGB
> and explain how Type 3 and Type 4 Segments can be used while building=20
> the return path dynamically for traceroute. The key is only the top=20
> segment
has to be
> Type 3/Type 4 the remaining segments to be of type label. For the Top
segment,
> label has to be derived from the SRGB of the receiving node (not=20
> someone
else's)
> so its expected to be available.
>
>
> This assumption may not hold, because given that the headend/PMS does=20
> not have the information, it is very likely that the receiving node=20
> has no the information either. So the draft should add more text to=20
> clarify the use
cases of
> type 3, 4 sub-TLVs, or just remove them.
> <shraddha> I'll add more text to describe clearly how type3/Type 4=20
> should
be
> used.
>
> In addition, given type 3 and 4 have valid use case, the optional SID
fields of type
> 3 and 4 are redundant, I think that they should be removed.
> <shraddha> SIDs are optional anyway. I would prefer to keep it in=20
> order to
be
> consistent with segment routing
> path description.
>
> Section 4,
> "Below types of segment sub-TLVs are applicable for the Reverse Path
>    Segment List TLV."
>
> Should the "Reverse Path Segment List TLV" be "Return Path TLV"?
> <shraddha> Good catch. I'll fix it.
>
> Best regards,
> Mach

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 07:20:25 -0700
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Subject: [mpls] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04
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Reviewer: Tero Kivinen
Review result: Has Nits

I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's 
ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the 
IESG.  These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the 
security area directors.  Document editors and WG chairs should treat 
these comments just like any other last call comments.

This document allocates a code point for OSPFv3 for MPLS LSP Ping and 
updates previous allocation to only cover OSPFv2. It also defines
behavior when using IPv6 with OSPv3.

This document is quite short but hard to ready because of heavy use of acronyms
and just referencing code points with numbers and same with RFCs.

The security considerations section just says:

   This document updates [RFC8287] and does not introduce any additional
   security considerations.

And I am not completely sure if that is true, if this document really allows using
IPv6 when it was not possible before. Quite often having multiple address families do 
cause new security considerations too. Also RFC8287 refers to the RFC8029 for its
security considerations, so perhaps direct reference to RFC8029 would be needed here.

There are several acronyms which are not expanded on their first use (including
in title, and in abstract). Examples of such are IS, TLV, OSPF, IS+IS, IGP, SUb-TLV (is the 
spelling correct in abstract with uppercase u?),  FEC.

The use of just RFC numbers in reference format makes the document hard to read
as not everybody remembers what RFC is RFC number 8287, 8402 etc. It would be 
much nicer to at least on the first time use the format where the text refers to RFC
with title or similar and just has the reference in parenthesis, i.e.:

   RFC5340 "OSPF for IPv6" ([RFC5340]) describes OSPF version 3 (OSPFv3) to 
   support IPv6. RFC5838 "Support of Address Families in OSPFv3" ([RFC5838])
   describes the mechanism to support multiple address families (AFs) in OSPFv3.
   Accordingly, OSPFv3 may be used to advertise IPv6 and IPv4 prefixes.


is easier for reader than current format:

   [RFC5340] describes OSPF version 3 (OSPFv3) to support IPv6.
   [RFC5838] describes the mechanism to support multiple address
   families (AFs) in OSPFv3. Accordingly, OSPFv3 may be used to
   advertise IPv6 and IPv4 prefixes.

Or, as the rfc title tells what the RFC is about you do not need to explain it that much
you can simply say:

   RFC5340 "OSPF for IPv6" ([RFC5340]) describes OSPF version 3 (OSPFv3) and
   RFC5838 "Support of Address Families in OSPFv3" ([RFC5838])
   describes how OSPFv3 may be used to advertise IPv6 and IPv4 prefixes.

Also someone who is not at all familiar with this it is bit hard to know what are
Type 34, 35, and 36 in Segment Id Sub-TLV registry. 

As a personal note, I have never liked to just use the reference inside text
(for example "This document updates [RFC8287] ...") as in case the RFC 
rendering engine decides to render references in some other way than just 
text with [] around it, the text might get unreadable (For example it replaces the
text inside [] with number or footnote or similar). Thats why I myself usually
want to write those either as "This document updates RFC8287 ([RFC8287])..." or 
even "This document updates RFC8287..." as RFC8287 is referenced so many times
in the document that there is no need to make each instance a reference. But this
is just my personal view, and authors might have different views...




From nobody Thu Jun 10 09:34:22 2021
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 18:34:09 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: kireeti@juniper.net, mpls@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [mpls] kireeti/mpls: draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa / draft-bryant-mpls-aux-data-pointer
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THanks for the discussion today. I have uploaded the pptx to the wiki including
aded slides capturing the discussion points we had today

Its under the OngoingDesignWiki sections (ConditionalActions).

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 07:34:13PM +0200, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> Some thoughts about the functionality and approaches of these two drafts:
> 
> Kireetis draft re-designates ca. 8 bits of new SPLs, called FAI SPL.
> Every bit indicates a particular forwarding action which is
> conditionally executed whent he bit is set. Some of these
> conditional actions may require ancillary data below BoS.
> 
> IMHO, the best of this proposal is the designation of those
> bits to indicate potentially for every hop, which forwarding
> actions to take. And the worst part of the proposal is that it
> is not extensible, because each bit has a hard-coded semantic.
> Another core issue raised by some is of course the question
> if/how the ancillary data has to be structured to be most
> easily parsable.
> 
> Stewarts draft attempts to generalize the use of 8 bits of the SPL
> by using it as an 8-bit value pointing to (a block of) ancillary
> data below BoS. The goal was to be also indicating which 
> function (as indicated by the ancillary data) needs to be
> executed by a hop(s) but to be more easily extensible, and
> make packets easier to parse. This comes at the downside of
> requiring 8-bits for "just" a single block of ancillary data.
> 
> Given how i think we have no clear agreement what can and can not
> be easily parsed, i wanted to suggest a "best of both worlds"
> packet header to see how folks think about "parsability":
> 
> In the MPLS labels Stack:
> 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |Forwarding Actions Indicator(FAI) SPL  |.|. .|.|0|1|2|3|4|5|6 7|
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
> Instead of fixed actions indicated by Kireetis proposal,
> we have 8 conditional action bis {0,...7}, each one indicating
> a conditional action: If a particular bit is set, its associated
> action is executed. Else that action is not executed.
> 
> Below BoS:
> 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |C| ID  | Action    |   Length  | ...
> ...
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> ...
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |C| ID  | Action    |   Length  |                              
> ...
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
> Aka: below BoS, we have a sequence of ancillary data blocks,
> which are self-identifying by their action (aka: type) and
> chained by length.
> 
> When an ancillar data block has it's
> C)onditional bit set, then it's ID field indicates which of
> the 8 conditional action it is being referred to. For example if
> C=1 and ID=5, then this action would only be executed if
> bit 5 of the FAI SPL was set. If C=0, the three ID bits could
> have other semantics than ID.
> 
> If an Action has no further data, it is just 16 bits long
> in this encoding. Up to 64 actions, up to 128 byte
> length of ancillary data if the unit of Length is 16 bits.
> 
> Of course, any of these encoding details are up for discussion,
> the main point is to use 8 bits in the FAI to indicate
> 8 conditional actions in an extensible fashion.
> 
> If this proposal looks appealing from the perspective of
> extensibility, flexibility and per-hop conditional action
> encodings, then the main question really is how we
> are vetting what can and can-not be easily done by
> high-speed (Terrabits) packet parsers. E.g.: is this
> in the same "complexity" ball park as oher proposals.
> 
> And i would love us to start having rules of what is and is
> not acceptable parsable instead of just "eyeballing" it.
> 
> Cheers
>     Toerless

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de


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Subject: [mpls] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04
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Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review result: Almost Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04
Reviewer: Christer Holmberg
Review Date: 2021-06-11
IETF LC End Date: 2021-06-21
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: The document is easy to read, and is almost ready for publication.
However, I do have a few editorial comments that I would like the authors to
address.

Major issues: N/A

Minor issues: N/A

Nits/editorial comments:

Q1:

The Abstract and Introductions says:

   "This document proposes the code point to be used in the Segment ID
     Sub-TLV and Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV when the IGP is OSPFv3."

I suggest to say "specifies" or "defines" instead of "proposes".

Q2:

Would it be more clear to call Section 6 "Update to RFC 8287"?

Q3:

Section 6 says:

   "This document specifies that the above code points will be used only for
   OSPFv2."

I suggest to be more explicit, and say something like:

   "This document updates RFC 8287, by specifying that the "OSPF" code points
   will be used only for OSPFv2."

Q4:

Section 7.2 adds a note to the IANA registry for the existing "OSPF" code
point. Should this specification also be added as a reference for the existing
"OSPF" code point (in addition to RFC 8287?




From nobody Fri Jun 11 01:30:07 2021
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Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG of the IETF.

        Title           : PMS/Head-end based MPLS Ping and Traceroute in Inter-domain SR Networks
        Authors         : Shraddha Hegde
                          Kapil Arora
                          Mukul Srivastava
                          Samson Ninan
                          Nagendra Kumar
	Filename        : draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2021-06-11

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages source routing and
   tunneling paradigms and can be directly applied to the use of a
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) data plane.  A network may
   consist of multiple IGP domains or multiple ASes under the control of
   same organization.  It is useful to have the LSP Ping and traceroute
   procedures when an SR end-to-end path spans across multiple ASes or
   domains.  This document describes mechanisms to facilitae LSP ping
   and traceroute in inter-AS/inter-domain SR networks in an efficient
   manner with simple OAM protocol extension which uses dataplane
   forwarding alone for sending echo reply.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "i-d-announce@ietf.org" <i-d-announce@ietf.org>, Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com" <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/h8Ey51X1CSVEmZD5FRX68dOPpa0>
Subject: Re: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
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Hi All,

New version of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam is posted addressin=
g comments from MPLS-RT review.
Pls take a look and let me know if you have further comments.

Rgds
Shraddha


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 2:00 PM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG of the IE=
TF.

        Title           : PMS/Head-end based MPLS Ping and Traceroute in In=
ter-domain SR Networks
        Authors         : Shraddha Hegde
                          Kapil Arora
                          Mukul Srivastava
                          Samson Ninan
                          Nagendra Kumar
        Filename        : draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
        Pages           : 21
        Date            : 2021-06-11

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages source routing and
   tunneling paradigms and can be directly applied to the use of a
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) data plane.  A network may
   consist of multiple IGP domains or multiple ASes under the control of
   same organization.  It is useful to have the LSP Ping and traceroute
   procedures when an SR end-to-end path spans across multiple ASes or
   domains.  This document describes mechanisms to facilitae LSP ping
   and traceroute in inter-AS/inter-domain SR networks in an efficient
   manner with simple OAM protocol extension which uses dataplane
   forwarding alone for sending echo reply.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ninan-mp=
ls-spring-inter-domain-oam/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2=
mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5TuJNnI5$

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nin=
an-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nN=
l8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5VMFXpJm$

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ninan=
-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8=
kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5QEnIeV0$


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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O-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5T0hqLuk$


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x$=


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/KeGt8tYpszwQmr8_muk_2evJyKY>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Last Call: <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04.txt> (OSPFv3 CodePoint for MPLS LSP Ping) to Proposed Standard
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On 07/06/2021 14:40, The IESG wrote:
>
> The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG
> (mpls) to consider the following document: - 'OSPFv3 CodePoint for MPLS LSP
> Ping'
>    <draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-04.txt> as Proposed Standard
>

s.6
"   This document specifies that the above code points will be used only
    for OSPFv2."

Perhaps a place for a  'SHALL'.

Tom Petch


> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
> comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-06-21. Exceptionally, comments may
> be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning
> of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
> Abstract
>
>
>     IANA has created "Protocol in the Segment IS Sub-TLV" and "Protocol
>     in the Label Stack Sub-TLV of the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV"
>     registries under the "Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label
>     Switched Paths (LSPs) Ping Parameters" registry.  RFC8287 defines the
>     code points for OSPF and IS-IS.
>
>     This document proposes the code point to be used in the Segment ID
>     Sub-TLV and Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV when the IGP is OSPFv3.
>     This document also updates RFC8287 by clarifying that the existing
>     "OSPF" code point is to be used only to indicate OSPFv2, and by
>     defining the behavior when the Segment ID SUb-TLV indicates the use
>     of IPv6.
>
>
>
>
> The file can be obtained via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint/
>
>
>
> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> .
>


From nobody Fri Jun 11 05:31:52 2021
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Dear authors, chairs and secretary,

I was selected to review this document. The following are my comments, which are only based on my current understanding. If there are any mistakes, please forgive and correct me.

1) I agree with the problem background described in section "2. Problem with nil FEC", the challenges and risks brought by using Nil FEC in some scenarios. For example, when SR policy is manually configured (or distributed by BGP) and segment type is specified as label type, the headend does not know the detailed FEC information for each segment. At this time, we can choose to include Nil FEC in the FEC stack of echo request. IMO, No matter which layer of FEC stack a Nil FEC is placed, it means that we lose the FEC Validation for this layer, that is, we can not determine whether the node to which an echo request packet arrives is the expected transit node or egress node of MPLS LSP.

2) Therefore, I think the egress TLV introduced in this document only has positive significance for PING mode, but has little significance for TRACEROUTE mode. According to RFC8029, PING mode is used to detect that the packets reache the expected egress node, while TRACEROUTE mode is in addition used to detect that the packets reache the expected transit node. It seems that, in the last sentence of section 2, the expression is inaccurate. In fact, there is no benefit to the processing of transit nodes.

3) If we focus on the benefits of egress TLV for PING mode, it seems that we can achieve the same effect by using the existing generic IP prefix FEC, which can be used to determine whether the PING packets have reached the desired destination node. This may be the necessary to consider the introduction of egress TLV in this document, that is, "Nil FEC + egress TLV" compared with "generic IP prefix FEC", provides the ability that the latter can not provide? Of course, these two options can coexist. If Nil FEC is selected, then the egress TLV is very useful.

4) According to RFC8287, PING mode can only contain a single Nil FEC corresponding to last segment, while TRACEROUTE mode must contain Nil FEC corresponding to each segment. Therefore, I am a little confused that the TRACEROUTE mode described in section "4.1.  Sending Egress TLV in MPLS Echo Request" in this document only contains a single Nil FEC. Can authors indicate me which document you refer to? Although, the number of elements in FEC stack (for example, only a single Nil FEC) may be inconsistent with the number of elements in DDMAP label stack (for example, including the whole outgoing label stack corresponding to SID list), the traceroute processing described in  RFC8029 does support this situation. My worry is that it will bring risks related with the transit node's reply of FEC change. In this case, it seems that FEC change can not be replied from the transit node, or the FEC change replies from the transit node needs to be ignored on the initiator node, otherwise th
 e subsequent FEC validation will be wrong. This need to supplement and further clarify the processing. 
For example, according to RFC8287, when the transit segment node replies the FEC change POP prefix-SID, how does the initiator handle it? Will the single Nil FEC be removed from the FEC stack? When the transit node replies to FEC change PUSH (for example, prefix SID enters the outer RSVP-TE forwarding adjacency), how does the initiator handle it? Will RSVP FEC be added to the FEC stack? This issue seems to also exist in non segment routing case, such as traceroute a BGP LU LSP, assuming LU over LDP, but the initiator only inserts a single BGP-LU FEC in the FEC stack. When the echo request packet arrives at a transit node of LDP LSP, it found that it need to enter an outer uniform RSVP-TE LSP. At this time, if the transit node replys FEC change PUSH RSVP FEC, it will bring risk, because the FEC stack of the next echo request is <BGP, RSVP>, while the label stack of DDMAP is < BGP, LDP, RSVP >, I doubt whether the subsequent reply of "IS egress" of TE LSP can successfully remov
 e the RSVP FEC element from the FEC stack.

5) Others:
    There is a spelling error in the example, egress router R3 should be changed to R7.

My conclusion: In Ping mode, egress TLV is useful to be combined with Nil FEC. It offers an alternative to generic IP prefix FEC.

Regards,
PSF
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From: Deepti Rathi <deeptir@juniper.net>
To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>, "draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org" <draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "mach.chen@huawei.com" <mach.chen@huawei.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/tR2LcPznF8ud3OaCPmRByQKTo8M>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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From nobody Sun Jun 13 17:20:08 2021
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Hi Shraddha and Authors,
thank you for updating the draft. I've reviewed the new version and couldn't find most of my comments addressed. Could you kindly help by pointing to the specific changes in the draft that, in your opinion, address my comments @ https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/wmd0wbToaCEtDhgd2gFcX2HzG90/ ?
As I've noted, I am not sure what is referred to as "the control plane" in the draft in describing the solution defined in RFC 7743. RFC 7743 itself does not, as I understand it, require that an Echo Reply is sent to the control plane at any step. If you have an implementation that does that, perhaps we can look at whether that is indeed the property of the solution or is implementation-specific.
Also, I'm still concern with the specification for traceroute mode in the draft. I have a couple of additional notes to add:
- RFC 7110, as well as RFC 7743 (I've pointed that out in my first comments), has traceroute outside the scope;
- RFC 8029 (Section 4.3) recommends using the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV. I couldn't find that TLV being mentioned in the draft. If you believe that TLV must not be used, could you list reasons for not using the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV?

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division

E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: ShraddhaHegde
To: mpls@ietf.org;i-d-announce@ietf.org ;Mach Chen;gregory mirsky10211915;adrian@olddog.co.uk;huubatwork@gmail.com;
Date: 2021/06/11 01:34
Subject: RE: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
Hi All,

New version of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam is posted addressing comments from MPLS-RT review.
Pls take a look and let me know if you have further comments.

Rgds
Shraddha


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
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To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG of the IETF.

Title           : PMS/Head-end based MPLS Ping and Traceroute in Inter-domain SR Networks
Authors         : Shraddha Hegde
Kapil Arora
Mukul Srivastava
Samson Ninan
Nagendra Kumar
Filename        : draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
Pages           : 21
Date            : 2021-06-11

Abstract:
Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages source routing and
tunneling paradigms and can be directly applied to the use of a
Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) data plane.  A network may
consist of multiple IGP domains or multiple ASes under the control of
same organization.  It is useful to have the LSP Ping and traceroute
procedures when an SR end-to-end path spans across multiple ASes or
domains.  This document describes mechanisms to facilitae LSP ping
and traceroute in inter-AS/inter-domain SR networks in an efficient
manner with simple OAM protocol extension which uses dataplane
forwarding alone for sending echo reply.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5TuJNnI5{0}lt;br>
There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5VMFXpJm{0}lt;br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5QEnIeV0{0}lt;br>

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5T0hqLuk{0}lt;br>

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From nobody Mon Jun 14 06:56:02 2021
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From: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
To: "'mpls@ietf.org'" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Hi all,
I have been selected as one of the  MPLS-RT reviewers of draft-rathi-mpls-e=
gress-tlv-for-nil-fec-04

IMHO, being able to use LSP Ping/Traceroute perform to validate only the da=
ta path and not the control plane state makes sense but I think that the dr=
aft requires more information about the problem that it is trying to addres=
s and why existing solutions are not suitable

Let me try to clarify my confusion after having read the draft
Unless I am missing something, section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 already provides su=
pport for checking only the data path and not the control plane state:

   If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the
   node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.

The draft mention some challenges with the current definition, but it seems=
 describing only one potential issue:

   ... When router in the label-stack path
   receives MPLS ping/traceroute packets, there is no definite way to
   decide on whether its egress or transit since Nil FEC does not carry
   any information.

However, I am not sure about this issue: looking at the example in the draf=
t, my understanding is that R7 will reply with code 3 while, in traceroute,=
 the intermediate nodes will reply with code 8.

Reading the procedure in section 4.2, I am wondering whether the real inten=
tion is to be able to validate the prefix X in R7, rather than the SR path =
toward R7.

However, in this case, it is not clear why using a FEC for the prefix X ins=
tead of the Nil FEC is not suitable.

I also think that section 5 requires more details about how backward compat=
ibility is achieved. What is the behavior of a node that does not support t=
his solution when it receives the EGRESS TLV?

Italo


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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have been selected as one of the&nbsp; MPLS-RT rev=
iewers of draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec-04<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO, being able to use LSP Ping/Traceroute perform =
to validate only the data path and not the control plane state makes sense =
but I think that the draft requires more information about the problem that=
 it is trying to address and why existing
 solutions are not suitable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let me try to clarify my confusion after having read=
 the draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unless I am missing something, section 4.4.1 of RFC8=
029 already provides support for checking only the data path and not the co=
ntrol plane state:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC =
stack is the Nil FEC, then the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; node MUST skip the Target FEC validatio=
n completely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft mention some challenges with the current d=
efinition, but it seems describing only one potential issue:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; ... When router in the label-stack path=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; receives MPLS ping/traceroute packets, =
there is no definite way to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; decide on whether its egress or transit=
 since Nil FEC does not carry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; any information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, I am not sure about this issue: looking at =
the example in the draft, my understanding is that R7 will reply with code =
3 while, in traceroute, the intermediate nodes will reply with code 8.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Reading the procedure in section 4.2, I am wondering=
 whether the real intention is to be able to validate the prefix X in R7, r=
ather than the SR path toward R7.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, in this case, it is not clear why using a F=
EC for the prefix X instead of the Nil FEC is not suitable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I also think that section 5 requires more details ab=
out how backward compatibility is achieved. What is the behavior of a node =
that does not support this solution when it receives the EGRESS TLV?<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Italo<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_fa5f1e295e0946c5928613f49e24bddfhuaweicom_--


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CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "i-d-announce@ietf.org" <i-d-announce@ietf.org>, "mach.chen@huawei.com" <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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--_007_BN6PR05MB3569A9553DD5E449ED5B203AD5309BN6PR05MB3569namp_--


From nobody Tue Jun 15 04:28:09 2021
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "pals-chairs@ietf.org" <pals-chairs@ietf.org>, "spring-chairs@ietf.org" <spring-chairs@ietf.org>, DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: [mpls] Soliciting agenda items for the upcoming Open DT on Thursday (2021-06-17)
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Design team,

The Open Design Team meeting on Thursday (2021-06-17) will focus on 
discussing two Extension Header drafts. Haouy will lead the discussion.

Please find the tentative agenda:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/2021-06-17-agenda

If time allows we will return an item brought up at the end of the last 
meeting, see mail from Loa 2021-06+15, the issues is multiple instances 
of indicators in the stack and multiple set of ancillary data after the 
boss. The discuss is not so much on how the problem could be solved, but 
on what the requirements are.

We are also soliciting other issues to be discussed at this meeting or a 
coming meeting.

/Loa

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Tue Jun 15 05:31:37 2021
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Design Team,

When the Associated Channel first were desing it was assume that one 
associated channel per packet would be enough for the future.

The rules for where the GAL (indicator for an associated channel) should 
be located in the stack and that there could only be one GAL in the 
stack was strictly specified.

Now we are where the development has taken us to a point where the GAL 
can be found aqt almost any position in the stack.

Further changes are discussed.

- As label stack has been growing there is a risk that some LSRs that
   need to find the GAL might find that the GAL is below readable depth.
   The proposed remedy is to allow entering a copy of the first GAL
   higher in the stack, i.e. more than one GAL in the stack point to the
   same ACH.

- It has also been discussed to carry more than one ACH after the BoS,
   i.e. you'll need more than one different GALs in the stack pointing to
   different ACH's.
   (I think the if this statement is true that would require a "slight",
   but backwards compatible redesign of the GAL.)

- It has also been discussed to carry more then set of (the ACH is one)
   ancillary data after the BoS, and e.g. FAI, GAL, EHI, OAM indicator,
   etc. mixed in the label stack.

The issue is that the set of ancillary data after the BoS might will 
interfere and that we need a strong mechanism to find the ancillary data 
that "belongs to" a certain indicator.

I think that we first need to decide what is required and after that
design a solution.

The correctness of statements about need to be verified and if necessary 
corrected.

/Loa

PS

Can someone tell me if I should use anxillary or ancillary?


-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Loa and all,

I have to admit that I have not been following the work of the DT closely =
for the last month or so.

Therefore I may be asking some questions that have already been asked and =
even answered. In which case you can simply say so(hopefully with some ref=
erence).

However I still think these questions should be asked.

Please see these questions - with some clarifications - inline below.





Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com



-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:31 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data afte=
r the BoS



Design Team,



When the Associated Channel first were desing it was assume that one assoc=
iated channel per packet would be enough for the future.

[[Sasha]] Actually the initial GACh design (RFC 5586<https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/html/rfc5586>) has provided for a TLV to follow the GACh fixed=
 header, with the provision that the presence of such a TLV is inferred fr=
om the GACh type in the fixed header. However, this mechanism has never be=
en used, and eventually GACh TLVs have been retired (RFC 7026<https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7026>).

I wonder if the need for multiple GACh in a packet could be addressed by G=
ACh TLVs?



The rules for where the GAL (indicator for an associated channel) should b=
e located in the stack and that there could only be one GAL in the stack w=
as strictly specified.

[[Sasha]] GAL has been restricted to be just the BoS label in the MPLS-TP =
environments, but this restriction does not apply  "to other environments"=
.

However, I am not aware of any rules for handling GAL if it is exposed to =
the MPLS forwarder (i.e. becomes top of the stack) while being followed by=
 some other labels. RFC 5586 only says that "A receiving LSR, LER, or PE M=
UST NOT forward a G-ACh packet to  another node based on the GAL label". T=
his is quite different from the definition of handling for the Routing Ale=
rt label. From my POV:

*         Lack of these definitions effectively precludes usage of GAL in =
a non-BoS position

*         Any such definition, if introduced today, will not be backward c=
ompatible with the existing implementations.



Now we are where the development has taken us to a point where the GAL can=
 be found at almost any position in the stack.

[[Sasha]] Please see my previous comment.



Further changes are discussed.



- As label stack has been growing there is a risk that some LSRs that

   need to find the GAL might find that the GAL is below readable depth.

   The proposed remedy is to allow entering a copy of the first GAL

   higher in the stack, i.e. more than one GAL in the stack point to the

   same ACH.[[Sasha]] The LSR normally looks just at the top label in the =
stack. If GAL is not in the top position, why should it react to it? And i=
f it is in the top position but not BoS, how will the packet be forwarded?=
 In addition, GAL does not "point to an ACH". It says that ACH immediately=
 follows the BoS label, so I fail to understand how a GAL can point to a s=
pecific ACH.



- It has also been discussed to carry more than one ACH after the BoS,

   i.e. you'll need more than one different GALs in the stack pointing to

   different ACH's.[[Sasha]] By different GALs do you mean different reser=
ved - or extended reserved - label values?

   (I think the if this statement is true that would require a "slight",

   but backwards compatible redesign of the GAL.)



- It has also been discussed to carry more then set of (the ACH is one)

   ancillary data after the BoS, and e.g. FAI, GAL, EHI, OAM indicator,

   etc. mixed in the label stack.



The issue is that the set of ancillary data after the BoS might will inter=
fere and that we need a strong mechanism to find the ancillary data that "=
belongs to" a certain indicator.



I think that we first need to decide what is required and after that desig=
n a solution.



The correctness of statements about need to be verified and if necessary c=
orrected.



/Loa



PS



Can someone tell me if I should use anxillary or ancillary?





--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa=
.pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have to admit that I have not been following t=
he work of the DT closely for the last month or so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Therefore I may be asking some questions that ha=
ve already been asked and even answered. In which case you can simply say =
so(hopefully with some reference).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However I still think these questions should be =
asked.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Please see these questions &#8211; with some cla=
rifications &#8211; <b>
<i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">inline below</span></i></b>.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-5492663=
02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: mpls &lt;mpls-bounces@ietf.org&gt; On Behalf Of Loa Andersson<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:31 PM<br>
To: mpls@ietf.org<br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data afte=
r the BoS</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Design Team,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">When the Associated Channel first were desing it=
 was assume that one associated channel per packet would be enough for the=
 future.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] Ac=
tually the initial GACh design (<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/html/rfc5586"><span style=3D"color:#00B050">RFC 5586</span></a>) has pro=
vided for a TLV to follow the GACh fixed header,
 with the provision that the presence of such a TLV is inferred from the G=
ACh type in the fixed header. However, this mechanism has never been used,=
 and eventually GACh TLVs have been retired (<a href=3D"https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7026"><span style=3D"color:#00B050">RFC
 7026</span></a>).<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">I wonder if =
the need for multiple GACh in a packet could be addressed by GACh TLVs?</s=
pan></i></b><span style=3D"color:#00B050"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The rules for where the GAL (indicator for an as=
sociated channel) should be located in the stack and that there could only=
 be one GAL in the stack was strictly specified.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] GA=
L has been restricted to be just the BoS label in the MPLS-TP environments=
, but this restriction does not apply &nbsp;&#8220;to other environments&#=
8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">However, I a=
m not aware of any rules for handling GAL if it is exposed to the MPLS for=
warder (i.e. becomes top of the stack) while being followed by some other =
labels. RFC 5586 only says that &#8220;</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">A
 receiving LSR, LER, or PE MUST NOT forward a G-ACh packet to &nbsp;anothe=
r node based on the GAL label</span><b><i><span style=3D"color:black">&#82=
21;.
</span><span style=3D"color:#00B050">This is quite different from the defi=
nition of handling for the Routing Alert label. From my POV:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#00B050"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><i><span style=3D=
"color:#00B050">Lack of these definitions effectively precludes usage of G=
AL in a non-BoS position</span></i></b><span style=3D"color:#00B050"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#00B050"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><i><span style=3D=
"color:#00B050">Any such definition, if introduced today, will not be back=
ward compatible with the existing implementations.</span></i></b><span sty=
le=3D"color:#00B050"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Now we are where the development has taken us to=
 a point where the GAL can be found at almost any position in the stack.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] Pl=
ease see my previous comment.</span></i></b><span style=3D"color:#00B050">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Further changes are discussed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- As label stack has been growing there is a ris=
k that some LSRs that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp; &nbsp;need to find the GAL might find tha=
t the GAL is below readable depth.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; The proposed remedy is to allow ent=
ering a copy of the first GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; higher in the stack, i.e. more than=
 one GAL in the stack point to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; same ACH<span style=3D"color:#00B05=
0">.<b><i>[[Sasha]] The LSR normally looks just at the top label in the st=
ack. If GAL is not in the top position, why should it react to it? And if =
it is in the top position but not BoS, how will the
 packet be forwarded? In addition, GAL does not &#8220;point to an ACH&#82=
21;. It says that ACH immediately follows the BoS label, so I fail to unde=
rstand how a GAL can point to a specific ACH.</i></b></span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- It has also been discussed to carry more than =
one ACH after the BoS,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; i.e. you'll need more than one diff=
erent GALs in the stack pointing to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; different ACH's<span style=3D"color=
:#00B050">.<b><i>[[Sasha]] By different GALs do you mean different reserve=
d &#8211; or extended reserved &#8211; label values?</i></b>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(I think the if this statement=
 is true that would require a &quot;slight&quot;,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; but backwards compatible redesign o=
f the GAL.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- It has also been discussed to carry more then =
set of (the ACH is one)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; ancillary data after the BoS, and e=
.g. FAI, GAL, EHI, OAM indicator,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; etc. mixed in the label stack.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The issue=20is that the set of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS might will interfere and that we need a strong mechanism to fi=
nd the ancillary data that &quot;belongs to&quot; a certain indicator.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I think that we first need to decide what is req=
uired and after that design a solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The correctness of statements about need to be v=
erified and if necessary corrected.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">PS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Can someone tell me if I should use anxillary or=
 ancillary?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu=
@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"=
color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/389rPq=
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g%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmpls</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] NFFRR
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Dear Kireeti,

our follow-up work
"Robust LFA Protection for Software-DefinedNetworks (RoLPS)"
got accepted for IEEE Transactions on Network and Service Management:
https://atlas.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~menth/papers/Menth21e.pdf

It is related to NFFRR because it defines advanced loop detection (ALD)
and avoidance in a simple manner. The concept is now implemented on the
P4-programmable Tofino target. Section VII.C reports about an experiment
to demonstrate how the prototype avoids loops.

This new version (ALD) is more straightforward than the old version
(ALDT) because we did not restrict ourselves to the (missing)
capabilities of OpenFlow anymore, P4 is more flexible. You cited ALDT in
your draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kompella-mpls-nffrr-01#section-1.1

Yes, we think that some sort of that mechanism makes sense, especially
in controller-based networks.

Kind regards,

Michael


Am 02.11.2020 um 16:19 schrieb Kireeti Kompella:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Thanks for the link to the paper.  It is cool that both attack
> the problem of loops due to multiple failures (real or perceived).
> 
> While the goals are similar, there are clearly differences in the
> approach because of different assumptions.  ALDT attempts to minimize
> false discards, at the expense of higher packet and processing
> overhead.  The NFFRR approach is far more naive, but also far more
> efficient.  It would be interesting to see how often NFFRR discards
> packets erroneously in different topologies, as opposed to LDT or ALDT. 
> The trade-offs between efficiency and correctness are harder to determine.
> 
> Sprinkled in the referenced paper in multiple places are limitations due
> to OpenFlow.  P4 is a better base for prototyping.
> 
> One question: how is an LD label recognized as such?
> 
> Thanks too for the reference to the Topology Zoo.  The topologies I
> sampled were pretty small, though.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 8:01 AM Michael Menth <menth@uni-tuebingen.de
> <mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Kireeti, all,
> 
>     interesting to see this in MPLS. We've done a similar feature (Advanced
>     Loop Detection and Termination, ALDT) for destination-based forwarding
>     with LFAs and did some evaluations:
> 
>     D. Merling, W. Braun, and M. Menth: Efficient Data Plane Protection for
>     SDN, in Proceedings of the 4th IEEE Conference on Network Softwarization
>     (NetSoft), June 2018, Montreal, Canada.
>     https://atlas.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~menth/papers/Menth18g.pdf
>     <https://atlas.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~menth/papers/Menth18g.pdf>
> 
>     We've implemented a prototype on the P4-based Tofino from barefoot, a
>     paper is to come.
> 
>     Regards,
> 
>     Michael
> 
>     Am 17.09.2020 um 16:27 schrieb Kireeti Kompella:
>     > Hi All,
>     >
>     > We have a prototype implementation of NFFRR in Junos.  The packet
>     > forwarding code was easier to write using a well-known SPL rather
>     than a
>     > configured or signaled label.  This implementation is specifically for
>     > the EVPN multihoming case -- to prevent loops if the CE is down rather
>     > than a link to the CE, but the principle is the same for other
>     NFFRR cases.
>     >
>     > Given that, and the fact that the problem is real, the solution
>     > implemented and the draft reasonably comprehensive and stable, the
>     > authors request WG adoption.
>     >
>     > --
>     > Kireeti
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > mpls mailing list
>     > mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>
>     >
> 
>     -- 
>     Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
>     University of Tuebingen
>     Faculty of Science
>     Department of Computer Science
>     Chair of Communication Networks
>     Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
>     phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
>     fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220
>     mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de <mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de>
>     http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de <http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de>
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kireeti

-- 
Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
University of Tuebingen
Faculty of Science
Department of Computer Science
Chair of Communication Networks
Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220
mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de
http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de


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Hi Sasha,
I agree with all your comments regarding the GAL. Indeed, GAL in non-MPLS-TP environments may be placed anywhere in a label stack. But how an LSR acts in the case GAL is not BoS has been left under-defined in RFC 5586. As I understand it, you are concerned that any work on closing that gap would not be backward compatible with the existing implementations handling GAL. While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being not the BoS label.

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: AlexanderVainshtein
To: Loa Andersson;
CC: mpls@ietf.org;
Date: 2021/06/15 06:09
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Loa and all,
I have to admit that I have not been following the work of the DT closely for the last month or so.
Therefore I may be asking some questions that have already been asked and even answered. In which case you can simply say so(hopefully with some reference).
However I still think these questions should be asked.
Please see these questions – with some clarifications –  inline below.
Regards,
Sasha
Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:31 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
Design Team,
When the Associated Channel first were desing it was assume that one associated channel per packet would be enough for the future.
[[Sasha]] Actually the initial GACh design (RFC 5586) has provided for a TLV to follow the GACh fixed header,  with the provision that the presence of such a TLV is inferred from the GACh type in the fixed header. However, this mechanism has never been used, and eventually GACh TLVs have been retired (RFC  7026).
I wonder if the need for multiple GACh in a packet could be addressed by GACh TLVs?
The rules for where the GAL (indicator for an associated channel) should be located in the stack and that there could only be one GAL in the stack was strictly specified.
[[Sasha]] GAL has been restricted to be just the BoS label in the MPLS-TP environments, but this restriction does not apply  “to other environments”.
However, I am not aware of any rules for handling GAL if it is exposed to the MPLS forwarder (i.e. becomes top of the stack) while being followed by some other labels. RFC 5586 only says that “A  receiving LSR, LER, or PE MUST NOT forward a G-ACh packet to  another node based on the GAL label”. This is quite different from the definition of handling for the Routing Alert label. From my POV:
·         Lack of these definitions effectively precludes usage of GAL in a non-BoS position
·         Any such definition, if introduced today, will not be backward compatible with the existing implementations.
Now we are where the development has taken us to a point where the GAL can be found at almost any position in the stack.
[[Sasha]] Please see my previous comment.
Further changes are discussed.
- As label stack has been growing there is a risk that some LSRs that
need to find the GAL might find that the GAL is below readable depth.
The proposed remedy is to allow entering a copy of the first GAL
higher in the stack, i.e. more than one GAL in the stack point to the
same ACH.[[Sasha]] The LSR normally looks just at the top label in the stack. If GAL is not in the top position, why should it react to it? And if it is in the top position but not BoS, how will the  packet be forwarded? In addition, GAL does not “point to an ACH”. It says that ACH immediately follows the BoS label, so I fail to understand how a GAL can point to a specific ACH.
- It has also been discussed to carry more than one ACH after the BoS,
i.e. you'll need more than one different GALs in the stack pointing to
different ACH's.[[Sasha]] By different GALs do you mean different reserved – or extended reserved – label values?
(I think the if this statement is true that would require a "slight",
but backwards compatible redesign of the GAL.)
- It has also been discussed to carry more then set of (the ACH is one)
ancillary data after the BoS, and e.g. FAI, GAL, EHI, OAM indicator,
etc. mixed in the label stack.
The issue is that the set of ancillary data after the BoS might will interfere and that we need a strong mechanism to find the ancillary data that "belongs to" a certain indicator.
I think that we first need to decide what is required and after that design a solution.
The correctness of statements about need to be verified and if necessary corrected.
/Loa
PS
Can someone tell me if I should use anxillary or ancillary?
--
Loa Andersson                        email:  loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                           loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0jwnKZsXUDs4mpBbG8lmt8jCwao>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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> On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com> wrote:
>=20
> While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a =
try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being not =
the BoS label.
> [[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be collecting =
the known actual behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, =
by running a survey among the vendors =E2=80=93 what do you think?


That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.

It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at =
BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW =
label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the =
context of the PW label.

When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the =
GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for =
context. It was still BoS.

Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then=20

a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.

b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well =
written implementation should just result in the packet being dropped =
and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS =
IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including =
ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to =
process it correctly.

A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed by =
any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to precess =
it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

- Stewart



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class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
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text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D"">While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT =
may give it a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle =
GAL being not the BoS label.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] Great minds =
think alike! One useful step could be collecting the known actual =
behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, by running a =
survey among the vendors =E2=80=93 what do you =
think?</span></i></b></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">That is actually a =
considerable amount of work that will take a while.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It seems to me that an =
old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best =
throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The original assumed processing model =
is to take the context of the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL =
and then process the GAL in the context of the PW label.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">When we extended GAL to =
apply to LSPs we again had the model that the GAL operated in the =
context of the LSP label that preceded it for context. It was still =
BoS.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Putting =
the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If it arrives at an LSR that knows the =
new semantic all is good.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic =
then&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">a) =
An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in =
forwarding.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">b) =
The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well =
written implementation should just result in the packet being dropped =
and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So I would think that it is OK to have =
multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured =
that all LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the =
GAL at ToS were known to be able to process it correctly.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A GAL not at BoS and not =
at ToS should not be inspected or processed by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to precess it would be a violation of =
the normal MPLS processing model.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Stewart</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com" <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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From: Deepti Rathi <deeptir@juniper.net>
To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
CC: "draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org" <draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Hi Italo,
Please find my comments inline.
I will update draft for:

  1.  why "NIL FEC + EGRESS TLV" and not Generic IPV4/IPV6 FEC.
  2.  Backward compatibility.

Regards,
Deepti



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From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Italo Busi
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:26 PM
To: 'mpls@ietf.org' <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>
Subject: [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hi all,

I have been selected as one of the  MPLS-RT reviewers of draft-rathi-mpls-e=
gress-tlv-for-nil-fec-04

>>IMHO, being able to use LSP Ping/Traceroute perform to validate only the =
data path and not the control plane state makes sense but I think that the =
draft requires more information about the problem that >>it is trying to ad=
dress and why existing solutions are not suitable
[Deepti]:
NIL FEC is used to traverse the path without validation for cases where the=
 FEC is not defined or routers are not upgraded to support the new FECs (li=
ke newer features, explicit-null, router-alert etc).
But it is a very powerful tool to check any combination of segments on any =
data path.
Since it does not carry any information to identify the intended egress/des=
tination,

  *   Mis-forwarding of the packet is possible
  *   Not possible to figure out mis-configuration of label stack
But in any case it will always return success even though egress/destinatio=
n is not the intended one which is not desired.
To overcome this and to provide minimal validation, EGRESS TLV is added in =
the packet. This will help to do egress/destination validation.
NIL FEC processing will be same as defined in RFC 8029. This draft is for a=
ddition of EGRESS TLV as extension to NIL FEC for path egress/destination v=
alidation.

>Let me try to clarify my confusion after having read the draft

>Unless I am missing something, section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 already provides s=
upport for checking only the data path and not the control plane state:

>  If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the
> node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.

>The draft mention some challenges with the current definition, but it seem=
s describing only one potential issue:

>   ... When router in the label-stack path
>   receives MPLS ping/traceroute packets, there is no definite way to
>   decide on whether its egress or transit since Nil FEC does not carry
>   any information.

>However, I am not sure about this issue: looking at the example in the dra=
ft, my understanding is that R7 will reply with code 3 while, in traceroute=
, the intermediate nodes will reply with code 8.

>Reading the procedure in section 4.2, I am wondering whether the real inte=
ntion is to be able to validate the prefix X in R7, rather than the SR path=
 toward R7.

>However, in this case, it is not clear why using a FEC for the prefix X in=
stead of the Nil FEC is not suitable.

[Deepti]: The real intention is to reach the correct egress/destination nod=
e.
The details of generic FEC and validation procedures are not very detailed =
in the RFC 8029.
The use-case mostly specifies inter-AS VPNs as the motivation.

Certain aspects of Segment Routing such as anycast SIDs required clear guid=
eline on how the validation procedure should work.
Also Generic FEC may not be widely supported and if transit routers are not=
 upgraded to support validation of generic FEC, traceroute may fail.
So instead of adding such clarifications to generic FEC, we went with new E=
GRESS TLV in Nil FEC.
Its an optional TLV so the procedures will work fine even if transit router=
s are not upgraded.
While we clearly specify the processing of egress tlv so that all SR cases =
are well specified.

Since explicit path can be created using node-sid, adj-sid, binding-sid, an=
ycast-sids etc. EGRESS TLV prefix will be derived from path egress/destinat=
ion and not based on labels used in the path to reach the destination.

I will update introduction section of draft with this comparison.

>>I also think that section 5 requires more details about how backward comp=
atibility is achieved. What is the behavior of a node that does not support=
 this solution when it receives the EGRESS TLV?

[Deepti]:
Backward compatibility on egress-node:
On egress/destination, it will ignore EGRESS TLV and use current NIL-FEC pr=
ocedure with return code 3 but egress validation will not be done (same as =
RFC 8029). So we wont know for sure if packet has reached the correct path =
egress.

Backward compatibility on transit-node:
If the transit node doesn't support, it will use current NIL-FEC procedure =
and send return code of 8.

I will add section in draft for backward compatibility.

Italo


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Italo,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please find my comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I will update draft for:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo3">why &#8220;NIL FEC + EGRESS TLV&#8221; and not Generic IPV4/IPV6 FEC.=
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Deepti<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Italo Busi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 14, 2021 7:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'mpls@ietf.org' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-n=
il-fec<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have been selected as one of the&nbsp; MPLS-RT rev=
iewers of draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec-04<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&gt;IMHO, being able to use LSP Ping/Traceroute =
perform to validate only the data path and not the control plane state make=
s sense but I think that the draft requires more information about the prob=
lem that &gt;&gt;it is trying to address and why
 existing solutions are not suitable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>[Deepti]: <o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NIL FEC is used to traverse the path without validat=
ion for cases where the FEC is not defined or routers are not upgraded to s=
upport the new FECs (like newer features, explicit-null, router-alert etc).=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But it is a very powerful tool to check any combinat=
ion of segments on any data path.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it does not carry any information to identify =
the intended egress/destination,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo6">Mis-forwarding of the packet is possible
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l3 level1 lfo6">Not possible to figure out mis-configuration of label=
 stack<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But in any case it will always return success even t=
hough egress/destination is not the intended one which is not desired.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To overcome this and to provide minimal validation, =
EGRESS TLV is added in the packet. This will help to do egress/destination =
validation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NIL FEC processing will be same as defined in RFC 80=
29. This draft is for addition of EGRESS TLV as extension to NIL FEC for pa=
th egress/destination validation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;Let me try to clarify my confusion after having =
read the draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;Unless I am missing something, section 4.4.1 of =
RFC8029 already provides support for checking only the data path and not th=
e control plane state:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&nbsp; If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC st=
ack is the Nil FEC, then the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; node MUST skip the Target FEC validation comple=
tely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;The draft mention some challenges with the curre=
nt definition, but it seems describing only one potential issue:<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ... When router in the label-stack =
path<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; receives MPLS ping/traceroute packe=
ts, there is no definite way to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; decide on whether its egress or tra=
nsit since Nil FEC does not carry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; any information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;However, I am not sure about this issue: looking=
 at the example in the draft, my understanding is that R7 will reply with c=
ode 3 while, in traceroute, the intermediate nodes will reply with code 8.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;Reading the procedure in section 4.2, I am wonde=
ring whether the real intention is to be able to validate the prefix X in R=
7, rather than the SR path toward R7.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;However, in this case, it is not clear why using=
 a FEC for the prefix X instead of the Nil FEC is not suitable.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>[Deepti]: </b>The real intention is to reach the =
correct egress/destination node.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The details of generic FEC and validation procedures=
 are not very detailed in the RFC 8029.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The use-case mostly specifies inter-AS VPNs as the m=
otivation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Certain aspects of Segment Routing such as anycast S=
IDs required clear guideline on how the validation procedure should work.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also Generic FEC may not be widely supported and if =
transit routers are not upgraded to support validation of generic FEC, trac=
eroute may fail.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So instead of adding such clarifications to generic =
FEC, we went with new EGRESS TLV in Nil FEC.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Its an optional TLV so the procedures will work fine=
 even if transit routers are not upgraded.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">While we clearly specify the processing of egress tl=
v so that all SR cases are well specified.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since explicit path can be created using node-sid, a=
dj-sid, binding-sid, anycast-sids etc. EGRESS TLV prefix will be derived fr=
om path egress/destination and not based on labels used in the path to reac=
h the destination.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I will update introduction section of draft with thi=
s comparison.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;&gt;I also think that section 5 requires more de=
tails about how backward compatibility is achieved. What is the behavior of=
 a node that does not support this solution when it receives the EGRESS TLV=
?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>[Deepti]:<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Backward compatibility on egress-node:<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On egress/destination, it will ignore EGRESS TLV and=
 use current NIL-FEC procedure with return code 3 but egress validation wil=
l not be done (same as RFC 8029). So we wont know for sure if packet has re=
ached the correct path egress.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Backward compatibility on transit-node:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If the transit node doesn&#8217;t support, it will u=
se current NIL-FEC procedure and send return code of 8.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I will add section in draft for backward compatibili=
ty.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Italo<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/gF-evLfGA43iNaEymvrOHX3FKe4>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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From: Deepti Rathi <deeptir@juniper.net>
To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
CC: "draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org" <draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "mach.chen@huawei.com" <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/lI5elzN9UCkEx6JU_nLLdI9cMio>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/fQVuO-01GUt3vqmXdjT55OfmfSE>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi,

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Stewart,
I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that received=
 a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredic=
table".

Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at Bo=
S IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including EC=
MP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to process=
 it correctly":

  1.  I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
  2.  Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this restricti=
on work including at least:

     *   The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at BoS =
must be provided
     *   Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in IG=
P and BGP must be defined
     *   Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that pr=
ocess GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques (RSVP-TE, SR-=
TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out  that the=
 benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only available in th=
e networks where all the nodes support the new functionality because presen=
ce of non-supporting nodes imposes too many restrictions on connectivity an=
d/or resilience.

[JD]  As we start to add all sorts of nifty functions both within the stack=
 and after it, we need to add these functions in such a way that a transit =
LSR that does not understand one or more of them still will be able to forw=
ard a packet containing them.  For example, if we were to add ancillary dat=
a in the label stack, it needs to be done in such a way as to allow a trans=
it router to skip over the ancillary data that it doesn't understand.

I.e., incremental deployment is a fact of life and we have to live with it.

Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.co=
m>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.o=
rg<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:

While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a try an=
d investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being not the BoS la=
bel.
[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be collecting the =
known actual behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, by runn=
ing a survey among the vendors - what do you think?


That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.

It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW labe=
l or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the context=
 of the PW label.

When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the GAL o=
perated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for context. It wa=
s still BoS.

Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.

b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well wr=
itten implementation should just result in the packet being dropped and cou=
nted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS IF=
F the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP a=
nd FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to process it =
correctly.

A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed by any=
 LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to precess it woul=
d be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

- Stewart



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> mpls &lt;mpls-bounces@ietf.org=
&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I fully agree with your statement tha=
t &#8220;</span>an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS wo=
uld at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable<span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#82=
21;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regarding your statement &#8220;</spa=
n>it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP
 and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to process i=
t correctly<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#8221;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l0 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0i=
n;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this restriction wo=
rk including at least:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l0 level2 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at BoS must be =
provided<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in IGP and BG=
P must be defined<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that process GA=
L correctly must be provided for different techniques (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, Flex=
Algo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It is still possible that, after all =
this work, we shall find out &nbsp;that the benefits of supporting GAL at T=
oS but not BoS will be only available in the networks
 where all the nodes support the new functionality because presence of non-=
supporting nodes imposes too many restrictions on connectivity and/or resil=
ience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; As we start to add all sorts of ni=
fty functions both within the stack and after it, we need to add these func=
tions in such a way that a transit LSR that does not
 understand one or more of them still will be able to forward a packet cont=
aining them.&nbsp; For example, if we were to add ancillary data in the lab=
el stack, it needs to be done in such a way as to allow a transit router to=
 skip over the ancillary data that it
 doesn&#8217;t understand.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I.e., incremental deployment is a fact of lif=
e and we have to live with it.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +=
972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">s=
tewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">While that might be the case, I think that the Open=
 DT may give it a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle =
GAL being not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#00B0F0">[[Sasha]] Great minds think ali=
ke! One useful step could be collecting the known actual behavior of popula=
r implementations in this case, say, by running
 a survey among the vendors &#8211; what do you think?</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That is actually a considerable amount of work that =
will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It seems to me that an old implementation that recei=
ved a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpre=
dictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The original assumed processing model is to take the=
 context of the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process=
 the GAL in the context of the PW label.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had t=
he model that the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that precede=
d it for context. It was still BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behavi=
our.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic =
all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new s=
emantic then&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LS=
P, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredicta=
ble, but in any well written implementation should just result in the packe=
t being dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs=
 and GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on th=
e LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to=
 be able to process it correctly.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspec=
ted or processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to att=
empt to precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
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To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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DT,

Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire 
discussion.

There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, and 
I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they 
might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to 
address the interference's this might lead to.

Further inline


On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> It’s not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> 
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>     |                              ACH                              |
> 
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>     |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
> 
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>     |                                                               ~
> 
>     ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
> 
>     ~                                                               |
> 
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>     |                                                               ~
> 
>     ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
> 
>     ~                                                               |
> 
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>                        Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> 
> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn’t a transit LSR treat any 
> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a 
> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit 
> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that’s just part 
> of the ACH.
> 
> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH 
> following it?

Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit set 
will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found deeper 
down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address multiple 
indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start 
working on solutions after that.

/Loa
> 
> Jeffrey
> 
> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary 
> data after the BoS
> 
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> 
> Stewart,
> 
> I fully agree with your statement that “an old implementation that 
> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst 
> be unpredictable”.
> 
> Regarding your statement “it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at 
> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, 
> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be 
> able to process it correctly”:
> 
>  1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
>  2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
>     restriction work including at least:
> 
>      1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
>         BoS must be provided
>      2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in
>         IGP and BGP must be defined
>      3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that
>         process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques
>         (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> 
> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out  that 
> the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only available 
> in the networks where all the nodes support the new functionality 
> because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too many restrictions 
> on connectivity and/or resilience.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sasha
> 
> Office: +972-39266302
> 
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> 
> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com 
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary 
> data after the BoS
> 
>     On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>     <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>     <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> 
>     While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a
>     try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being
>     not the BoS label.
> 
>     */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>     collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
>     this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors – what do you
>     think?/*
> 
> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
> 
> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at 
> BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
> 
> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW 
> label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the 
> context of the PW label.
> 
> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the 
> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for 
> context. It was still BoS.
> 
> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> 
> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> 
> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> 
> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
> 
> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well 
> written implementation should just result in the packet being dropped 
> and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> 
> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS 
> IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including 
> ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to 
> process it correctly.
> 
> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed by 
> any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to precess 
> it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
> 
> - Stewart
> 
> 
> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain 
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> 

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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To: John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 16:53:35 +0200
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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DT,

Quick comments on John's mail:

On 17/06/2021 16:44, John E Drake wrote:
> *//*
> 
> */[JD] As we start to add all sorts of nifty functions both within the 
> stack and after it, we need to add these functions in such a way that a 
> transit LSR that does not understand one or more of them still will be 
> able to forward a packet containing them.  

Yes, we must have an architecture that supports that.

> For example, if we were to 
> add ancillary data in the label stack, it needs to be done in such a way 
> as to allow a transit router to skip over the ancillary data that it 
> doesnt understand./*

Ancillary "data in the stack"?  Does not all ancillary data go after the 
BoS?

/Loa
> 
> *//*
> 
> */I.e., incremental deployment is a fact of life and we have to live 
> with it./*
> 

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/pxG25RVlHn6PnaePsEfvJx-0X5Q>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Loa,

I thought the FAI proposal put ancillary data in the stack.

Yours Irrespectively,

John


Juniper Business Use Only

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:54 AM
> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data=
 after
> the BoS
>=20
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>=20
>=20
> DT,
>=20
> Quick comments on John's mail:
>=20
> On 17/06/2021 16:44, John E Drake wrote:
> > *//*
> >
> > */[JD] As we start to add all sorts of nifty functions both within the
> > stack and after it, we need to add these functions in such a way that
> > a transit LSR that does not understand one or more of them still will
> > be able to forward a packet containing them.
>=20
> Yes, we must have an architecture that supports that.
>=20
> > For example, if we were to
> > add ancillary data in the label stack, it needs to be done in such a
> > way as to allow a transit router to skip over the ancillary data that
> > it doesn't understand./*
>=20
> Ancillary "data in the stack"?  Does not all ancillary data go after the =
BoS?
>=20
> /Loa
> >
> > *//*
> >
> > */I.e., incremental deployment is a fact of life and we have to live
> > with it./*
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/lmh9iy0mHfalLbJvK3Tx1_WGdps>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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From nobody Thu Jun 17 08:03:58 2021
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 17:03:49 +0200
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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John,

I might have missed something, but I have not seen that defined 
anywhere; if we want a stand alone bit set in the FAI to be ancillary 
data, what is a bit that points to data after the BoS? In my mind any 
bit in the FAI is anindicator, that is why it named FAI.

But I'm willing to changed my mind about the naming as long as we have 
an agreement.

/Loa

On 17/06/2021 16:55, John E Drake wrote:
> Loa,
> 
> I thought the FAI proposal put ancillary data in the stack.
> 
> Yours Irrespectively,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:54 AM
>> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
>> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
>> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after
>> the BoS
>>
>> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>>
>>
>> DT,
>>
>> Quick comments on John's mail:
>>
>> On 17/06/2021 16:44, John E Drake wrote:
>>> *//*
>>>
>>> */[JD] As we start to add all sorts of nifty functions both within the
>>> stack and after it, we need to add these functions in such a way that
>>> a transit LSR that does not understand one or more of them still will
>>> be able to forward a packet containing them.
>>
>> Yes, we must have an architecture that supports that.
>>
>>> For example, if we were to
>>> add ancillary data in the label stack, it needs to be done in such a
>>> way as to allow a transit router to skip over the ancillary data that
>>> it doesn't understand./*
>>
>> Ancillary "data in the stack"?  Does not all ancillary data go after the BoS?
>>
>> /Loa
>>>
>>> *//*
>>>
>>> */I.e., incremental deployment is a fact of life and we have to live
>>> with it./*
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
>> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Sasha

I completely agree on all points.

Stewart

> On 17 Jun 2021, at 10:06, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com> wrote:
>=20
> Stewart,
> I fully agree with your statement that =E2=80=9Can old implementation =
that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or =
worst be unpredictable=E2=80=9D.
> =20
> Regarding your statement =E2=80=9Cit is OK to have multiple GALs and =
GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the =
LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known =
to be able to process it correctly=E2=80=9D:
> 1.       I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> 2.       Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this =
restriction work including at least:
> a.       The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at =
BoS must be provided
> b.       Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly =
in IGP and BGP must be defined
> c.       Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes =
that process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques =
(RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out  =
that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only =
available in the networks where all the nodes support the new =
functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too many =
restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> =20
> Regards,
> Sasha
> =20
> Office: +972-39266302
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> =20
> From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>=20
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; =
gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary =
data after the BoS
> =20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein =
<Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> =
wrote:
> =20
> While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a =
try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being not =
the BoS label.
> [[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be collecting =
the known actual behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, =
by running a survey among the vendors =E2=80=93 what do you think?
> =20
> =20
> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
> =20
> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not =
at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
> =20
> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW =
label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the =
context of the PW label.
> =20
> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the =
GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for =
context. It was still BoS.
> =20
> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> =20
> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> =20
> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then=20
> =20
> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in =
forwarding.
> =20
> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any =
well written implementation should just result in the packet being =
dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> =20
> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at =
BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, =
including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be =
able to process it correctly.
> =20
> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed =
by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to =
precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
> =20
> - Stewart
> =20
> =20
>=20
> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain =
information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is =
confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended =
recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others or =
forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are =
not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and =
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--Apple-Mail=_731FCBC3-AC32-4679-B8E5-D03ECD8579C9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Sasha<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I completely =
agree on all points.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Stewart<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 17 Jun 2021, at 10:06, =
Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Stewart,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I fully agree with your =
statement that =E2=80=9C</span>an old implementation that received a ToS =
GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be =
unpredictable<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Regarding your =
statement =E2=80=9C</span>it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at =
BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, =
including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be =
able to process it correctly<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I =
fully agree with this statement as a general restriction<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this =
restriction work including at least:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif; =
text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The=
 definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at BoS must be =
provided<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span class=3D"">b.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly =
in IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span class=3D"">c.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes =
that process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques =
(RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">It is still possible =
that, after all this work, we shall find out &nbsp;that the benefits of =
supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only available in the networks =
where all the nodes support the new functionality because presence of =
non-supporting nodes imposes too many restrictions on connectivity =
and/or resilience.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Sasha<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Office: +972-39266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, June 17, 2021 =
10:36 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stewart Bryant &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com" =
class=3D"">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mpls@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] =
Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">On 17 Jun =
2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may =
give it a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL =
being not the BoS label.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><i class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[[Sasha]] =
Great minds think alike! One useful step could be collecting the known =
actual behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, by running =
a survey among the vendors =E2=80=93 what do you =
think?</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">That is =
actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">It seems to =
me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would =
at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">The =
original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW label =
or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the =
context of the PW label.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we =
again had the model that the GAL operated in the context of the LSP =
label that preceded it for context. It was still BoS.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">Putting the =
GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">If it =
arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">If it =
arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">a) An error =
has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">b) The =
behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well =
written implementation should just result in the packet being dropped =
and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">So I would =
think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS IFF the =
creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP and =
FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to process it =
correctly.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should =
not be inspected or processed by any LSR that did not know what it was =
doing, and to attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal =
MPLS processing model.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">- Stewart<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><br clear=3D"both" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
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style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
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From: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/jZGqAA8rzTBDBH9kn7-jZAtmfrI>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed for cont=
rol channel only and so far for a special scenario. The constraints on GAL =
and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use case requirements.=20

Thanks!
Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi Loa,

> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and m=
ultiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about multiple=
 indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS,=
 either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers or =
a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded to =
the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

Thanks.

Jeffrey

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


DT,

Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire discu=
ssion.

There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, and I w=
as worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they might wan=
t to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to address the =
interference's this might lead to.

Further inline


On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
>
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>     |                              ACH                              |
>
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>     |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
>
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>     |                                                               ~
>
>     ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
>
>     ~                                                               |
>
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>     |                                                               ~
>
>     ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
>
>     ~                                                               |
>
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>                        Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
>
> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat any=20
> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a
> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit
> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just part=20
> of the ACH.
>
> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH=20
> following it?

Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit set will=
 have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found deeper down stac=
k and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indi=
cators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start worki=
ng on solutions after that.

/Loa
>
> Jeffrey
>
> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> Vainshtein
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=20
> data after the BoS
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
> Stewart,
>
> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that=20
> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or=20
> worst be unpredictable".
>
> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not=20
> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,=20
> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to=20
> be able to process it correctly":
>
>  1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.=20
> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
>     restriction work including at least:
>
>      1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
>         BoS must be provided
>      2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in
>         IGP and BGP must be defined
>      3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that
>         process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques
>         (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
>
> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out =20
> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only=20
> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new=20
> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too=20
> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
> Office: +972-39266302
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302
>
> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=20
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
>
> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=20
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com=20
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org=20
> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=20
> data after the BoS
>
>     On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>     <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>     <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
>
>     While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a
>     try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being
>     not the BoS label.
>
>     */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>     collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
>     this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do you
>     think?/*
>
> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
>
> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not=20
> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
>
> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW=20
> label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in=20
> the context of the PW label.
>
> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the=20
> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for=20
> context. It was still BoS.
>
> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
>
> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
>
> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
>
> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
>
> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any=20
> well written implementation should just result in the packet being=20
> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
>
> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at=20
> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,=20
> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to=20
> be able to process it correctly.
>
> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed=20
> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to=20
> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain=20
> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is=20
> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended=20
> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others=20
> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=20
> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender=20
> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
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--

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Stewad, Sasha,

I second that.

Cheers, Huub.

=====

On 17/06/2021 17:07, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> Hi Sasha
> 
> I completely agree on all points.
> 
> Stewart
> 
>> On 17 Jun 2021, at 10:06, Alexander Vainshtein 
>> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Stewart,
>> I fully agree with your statement that “an old implementation that 
>> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or 
>> worst be unpredictable”.
>> Regarding your statement “it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not 
>> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, 
>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to 
>> be able to process it correctly”:
>> 1.I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
>> 2.Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this 
>> restriction work including at least:
>> a.The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at BoS 
>> must be provided
>> b.Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in IGP 
>> and BGP must be defined
>> c.Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that 
>> process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques 
>> (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
>> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out 
>>  that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only 
>> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new 
>> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too 
>> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
>> Regards,
>> Sasha
>> Office: +972-39266302
>> Cell:      +972-549266302
>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
>> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>> *Sent:*Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
>> *To:*Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
>> *Cc:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com 
>> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:*Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary 
>> data after the BoS
>>
>>
>>     On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>>     <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>>     <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
>>     While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it
>>     a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
>>     being not the BoS label.
>>     */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>>     collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
>>     this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors – what do
>>     you think?/*
>>
>> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
>> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not 
>> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
>> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW 
>> label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in 
>> the context of the PW label.
>> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the 
>> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for 
>> context. It was still BoS.
>> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
>> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
>> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
>> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
>> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any 
>> well written implementation should just result in the packet being 
>> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
>> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at 
>> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, 
>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to 
>> be able to process it correctly.
>> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed 
>> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to 
>> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
>> - Stewart
>>
>> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain 
>> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is 
>> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended 
>> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others 
>> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If 
>> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender 
>> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Refresh-interval Independent FRR Facility Protection
        Authors         : Chandra Ramachandran
                          Tarek Saad
                          Ina Minei
                          Dante Pacella
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-ri-rsvp-frr-11.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2021-06-20

Abstract:
   RSVP-TE Fast ReRoute extensions specified in RFC 4090 defines two
   local repair techniques to reroute Label Switched Path (LSP) traffic
   over pre-established backup tunnel.  Facility backup method allows
   one or more LSPs traversing a connected link or node to be protected
   using a bypass tunnel.  The many-to-one nature of local repair
   technique is attractive from scalability point of view.  This
   document enumerates facility backup procedures in RFC 4090 that rely
   on refresh timeout and hence make facility backup method refresh-
   interval dependent.  The RSVP-TE extensions defined in this document
   will enhance the facility backup protection mechanism by making the
   corresponding procedures refresh-interval independent and hence
   compatible with Refresh-interval Independent RSVP (RI-RSVP) specified
   in RFC 8370.  Hence, this document updates RFC 4090 in order to
   support RI-RSVP capability specified in RFC 8370.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ri-rsvp-frr/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ri-rsvp-frr-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-ri-rsvp-frr-11


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Jeffrey,


On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> Hi Loa,
> 
>> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> 
> I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in several 
drafts

  draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH indicator

  draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a special 
purpose label (FAI) as indicators

  there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in the 
stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.

  draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL higher
uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun readable depth 
might reach the GAL

  there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in the 
stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.

  draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential indicators, that 
is also telling if the EH should be processed on every EH capable node 
or "just" at ingress and egress


The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.

I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion

- first what we want to have
- second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
   ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.

/Loa




> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jeffrey
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
> 
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
> 
> DT,
> 
> Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire
> discussion.
> 
> There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, and
> I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they
> might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to
> address the interference's this might lead to.
> 
> Further inline
> 
> 
> On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> It’s not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                              ACH                              |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                                                               ~
>>
>>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
>>
>>      ~                                                               |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                                                               ~
>>
>>      ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
>>
>>      ~                                                               |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
>>
>> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn’t a transit LSR treat any
>> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a
>> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit
>> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that’s just part
>> of the ACH.
>>
>> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
>> following it?
> 
> Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit set
> will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found deeper
> down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> 
> Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address multiple
> indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> 
> I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start
> working on solutions after that.
> 
> /Loa
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander Vainshtein
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
>> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
>> data after the BoS
>>
>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>
>> Stewart,
>>
>> I fully agree with your statement that “an old implementation that
>> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst
>> be unpredictable”.
>>
>> Regarding your statement “it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at
>> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be
>> able to process it correctly”:
>>
>>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
>>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
>>      restriction work including at least:
>>
>>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
>>          BoS must be provided
>>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in
>>          IGP and BGP must be defined
>>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that
>>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques
>>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
>>
>> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out  that
>> the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only available
>> in the networks where all the nodes support the new functionality
>> because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too many restrictions
>> on connectivity and/or resilience.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sasha
>>
>> Office: +972-39266302
>>
>> Cell:      +972-549266302
>>
>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
>>
>> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
>> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
>> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
>> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
>> data after the BoS
>>
>>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
>>
>>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a
>>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being
>>      not the BoS label.
>>
>>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
>>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors – what do you
>>      think?/*
>>
>> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
>>
>> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at
>> BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
>>
>> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW
>> label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in the
>> context of the PW label.
>>
>> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the
>> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for
>> context. It was still BoS.
>>
>> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
>>
>> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
>>
>> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
>>
>> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
>>
>> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any well
>> written implementation should just result in the packet being dropped
>> and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
>>
>> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at BoS
>> IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP, including
>> ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to be able to
>> process it correctly.
>>
>> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed by
>> any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to precess
>> it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>>
>> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
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>>
> 
> --
> 
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>,  Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
Thread-Index: AQHXZcVAadEVE1TM/UGOz4B2z73QRaseIlnQ
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:50:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Haoyu, DT

On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:
> My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use case requirements.
> 
I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

One question though.

RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom of 
the label stack."

If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH 
does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this 
position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

/Loa

> Thanks!
> Haoyu
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM
> To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
> 
> Hi Loa,
> 
>> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> 
> I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jeffrey
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
> 
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
> 
> DT,
> 
> Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire discussion.
> 
> There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to address the interference's this might lead to.
> 
> Further inline
> 
> 
> On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                              ACH                              |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                                                               ~
>>
>>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
>>
>>      ~                                                               |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>      |                                                               ~
>>
>>      ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
>>
>>      ~                                                               |
>>
>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
>>
>> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat any
>> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a
>> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit
>> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just part
>> of the ACH.
>>
>> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
>> following it?
> 
> Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> 
> Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> 
> I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start working on solutions after that.
> 
> /Loa
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
>> Vainshtein
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
>> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
>> data after the BoS
>>
>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>
>> Stewart,
>>
>> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that
>> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or
>> worst be unpredictable".
>>
>> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
>> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to
>> be able to process it correctly":
>>
>>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.
>> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
>>      restriction work including at least:
>>
>>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
>>          BoS must be provided
>>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in
>>          IGP and BGP must be defined
>>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that
>>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques
>>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
>>
>> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out
>> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only
>> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new
>> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too
>> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sasha
>>
>> Office: +972-39266302
>>
>> Cell:      +972-549266302
>>
>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
>>
>> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
>> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
>> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
>> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org
>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
>> data after the BoS
>>
>>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
>>
>>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a
>>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being
>>      not the BoS label.
>>
>>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
>>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do you
>>      think?/*
>>
>> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
>>
>> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not
>> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
>>
>> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the PW
>> label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL in
>> the context of the PW label.
>>
>> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the
>> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for
>> context. It was still BoS.
>>
>> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
>>
>> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
>>
>> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
>>
>> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
>>
>> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any
>> well written implementation should just result in the packet being
>> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
>>
>> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at
>> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to
>> be able to process it correctly.
>>
>> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed
>> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to
>> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
>>
>> - Stewart
>>
>>
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> 
> --
> 
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
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Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 09:55:25 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/J7kYPEHjzTYa3PwTCcSATT7N024>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 12:15:56 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/s75iwYRT8RfBd16B5o8FV6sgNeE>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Sasha,


On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
> Loa and all,
> 
> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".
> 
>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with GAL 
> as well.

Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to 
make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?
> 
> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is 
> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be 
> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in 
> the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.
> 
> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in 
> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC 8169 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8169#section-3> where G-ACH is 
> used for residence time measurement.

Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated 
channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?

/Loa
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sasha
> 
> Office: +972-39266302
> 
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM
> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang 
> <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Alexander Vainshtein 
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary 
> data after the BoS
> 
> Haoyu, DT
> 
> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:
> 
>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed 
> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The 
> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use 
> case requirements.
> 
>  >
> 
> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.
> 
> One question though.
> 
> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom of 
> the label stack."
> 
> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH 
> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this 
> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?
> 
> /Loa
> 
>  > Thanks!
> 
>  > Haoyu
> 
>  >
> 
>  > -----Original Message-----
> 
>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On 
> Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)
> 
>  > Zhang
> 
>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM
> 
>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>; Alexander Vainshtein
> 
>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant
> 
>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> 
>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> 
>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
> 
>  > data after the BoS
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Hi Loa,
> 
>  >
> 
>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack 
> and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about 
> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data 
> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic 
> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle 
> it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Thanks.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Jeffrey
> 
>  >
> 
>  > -----Original Message-----
> 
>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
> 
>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> 
>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net 
> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein
> 
>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant
> 
>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> 
>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> 
>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
> 
>  > data after the BoS
> 
>  >
> 
>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
>  >
> 
>  >
> 
>  > DT,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire 
> discussion.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, 
> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they 
> might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to 
> address the interference's this might lead to.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Further inline
> 
>  >
> 
>  >
> 
>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> 
>  >> Hi,
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      |                              ACH                              |
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      |                                                               ~
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      ~                                                               |
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      |                                                               ~
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      ~                                                               |
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat any
> 
>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a
> 
>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit
> 
>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just
> 
>  >> part of the ACH.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
> 
>  >> following it?
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit 
> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found 
> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address 
> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data 
> after the BoS.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start 
> working on solutions after that.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > /Loa
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Jeffrey
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> 
> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> 
>  >> Vainshtein
> 
>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> 
>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> 
>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> 
>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> 
>  >> ancillary data after the BoS
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Stewart,
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that
> 
>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or
> 
>  >> worst be unpredictable".
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
> 
>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
> 
>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to
> 
>  >> be able to process it correctly":
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.
> 
>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> 
>  >>      restriction work including at least:
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
> 
>  >>          BoS must be provided
> 
>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in
> 
>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> 
>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that
> 
>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques
> 
>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out
> 
>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only
> 
>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new
> 
>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too
> 
>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Regards,
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Sasha
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Office: +972-39266302
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> 
>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> 
>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>
> 
>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> 
>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> 
>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>
> 
>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> 
>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com 
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com 
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
> 
>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>; 
> mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> 
>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>
> 
>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> 
>  >> ancillary data after the BoS
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> 
>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> 
>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give 
> it a
> 
>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being
> 
>  >>      not the BoS label.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> 
>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in
> 
>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do you
> 
>  >>      think?/*
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not
> 
>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the
> 
>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL
> 
>  >> in the context of the PW label.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the
> 
>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for
> 
>  >> context. It was still BoS.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any
> 
>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being
> 
>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at
> 
>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
> 
>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to
> 
>  >> be able to process it correctly.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed
> 
>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to
> 
>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> - Stewart
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
> 
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> 
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> 
>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others
> 
>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
> 
>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
> 
>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >>
> 
>  >> _______________________________________________
> 
>  >> mpls mailing list
> 
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> 
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>  >> F
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>  >> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d
> 
>  >> e
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>  >> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0
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>  >> %
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>  >
> 
>  > --
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
> 
>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com <mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>
> 
>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Juniper Business Use Only
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>  > _______________________________________________
> 
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> 
> -- 
> 
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
> 
> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com <mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>
> 
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> 
> 
> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain 
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> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are 
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> then delete all copies, including any attachments.

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/QauRH4Nn9I6QcJ95Pobp_9-DZDY>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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--_000_BY3PR05MB80817B45C5AC0BD9FDA54E93C70A9BY3PR05MB8081namp_
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Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__=
;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY=
588$> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementat=
ion that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or =
worst be unpredictable".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due =
to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH=
0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUl=
JSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHt=
M0KyFNp0$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

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>

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>

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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

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>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

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> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

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> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

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>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

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> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is pr=
oposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit=
 LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label=
 stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;mpls-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include =
adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is wit=
hin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is=
 exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forward=
er, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been=
 defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc5586__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD=
0vSHtMt9fY588$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique th=
at would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pa=
ss thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the following=
 IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Retain the exi=
sting definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the B=
oS<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lf=
o3">Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structu=
res that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carr=
y everything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and
 Sub-TLVs, if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications =
to process such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS =
forwarding).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l1=
 level1 lfo3">Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b)=
 recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH =
while forwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=
=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL=
 to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information c=
arried in the ACH (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD=
0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough=
 for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably saf=
e since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LE=
Rs -
<i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prim=
um_non_nocere__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6l=
EzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0$">primum non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not=
 tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implica=
tion) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no o=
ther ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, g=
iven that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any k=
ind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been do=
ne in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yM=
aO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0$"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.symant=
ec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2F=
doc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everything=
 in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, righ=
t?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549=
266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@f=
uturewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with =
ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a sp=
ecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are har=
d to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible =
to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appear=
s immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stac=
k is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data m=
aybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there i=
s a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:0=
2 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;tex=
t-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexa=
nder
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT ad=
dress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of thi=
s email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multip=
le set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or th=
e proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propos=
als should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterB=
OS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:=
46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;z=
zhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of c=
ontent]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but =
it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to=
 sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indic=
ators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&q=
uot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this mi=
ght lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could p=
ut a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH=
 TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Mes=
sage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bi=
t set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in t=
he above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-oc=
tet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stac=
k ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL =
not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GA=
L which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The=
 BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediate=
ly fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'=
d like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the =
relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious=
 of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your state=
ment that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS=
 would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quo=
t;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree =
with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to=
 be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for differe=
nt
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, af=
ter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporti=
ng GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks whe=
re all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presenc=
e of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connecti=
vity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alex=
ander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorati=
on:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerab=
le amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old im=
plementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an=
 exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processi=
ng model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, dis=
cover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply=
 to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context o=
f the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up th=
e stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eith=
er in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the recei=
ving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation s=
hould just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with a=
ny other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is O=
K to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LS=
P ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at T=
oS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violati=
on of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together =
with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Communi=
cations Inc. and its Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or proprieta=
ry for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without express=
 permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended reci=
pient, please notify the sender<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete a=
ll copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________________________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
:/clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*25__;JSU!!=
NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMnORLvEs=
$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxd=
Ze1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%=
2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o=
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob=
1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%=
7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C=
1000&amp;amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F=
6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi=
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
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o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mai=
lto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 =
739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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:p></p>
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
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A$">
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p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.=
nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 6=
4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a><=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
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ail.com">
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span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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sure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Oyf85VHmV04raMvKUZsEzGbzzKo>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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--_000_MW4PR03MB63954ECABD96C12A7A7F9447F60A9MW4PR03MB6395namp_
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John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/rfc6790#section-4.3> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790=
#section-4.1> and 5<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-=
5>, an egress LSR that signals both ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc=
3031#section-3.18>.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs=
 for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (exp=
licitly or implicitly), including:

1.       All Adj-SIDs

2.       All EPE SIDs

3.       IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleare=
d in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)

4.       BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the=
 BGP-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved =
in PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Loa Andersson <l=
oa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing=
 several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it=
 finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf=
 Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR=
?"  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not B=
oS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how=
 to handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5=
586<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml=
%2Frfc5586__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5ph=
nYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588%24> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded =
that "an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at be=
st throw an exception or worst be unpredictable".  Neither of these option=
s sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that p=
ackets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that kn=
ow how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that imme=
diately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the stru=
ctures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry =
everything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if nec=
essary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such struct=
ures in ACH, but at least this would not affect=20MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogn=
ize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while =
forwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to=
 meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been =
done in RFC 8169<https://clicktime.symantec.com/389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2=
?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org=
%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks=
_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%24>) even if they cannot detect pres=
ence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of =
applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requ=
ire any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPrimum_non_=
nocere__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW=
6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0%24>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart =
Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make =
sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=
2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://click=
time.symantec.com/3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.=
com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H=
2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc8=
169%2A23section-3__%3BJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6=
LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%24>> where G-ACH is used for res=
idence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channe=
l. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffre=
y (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dma=
rc.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; S=
tewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3c=
mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%=
3cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mai=
lto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after=20the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbb=
n.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:gre=
gory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%=
3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a whil=
e.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >>=20PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forward=
ing.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the=20LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.=


>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

>  >> mpls mailing list

>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/3G18FNxso3yysVeGE2oYas86H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F32ELHVPxdZe1=
NeGCU5oipbG6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A25__%3BJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7=
rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMnORLvEs%24>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.n=
u>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <m=
ailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  > _______________________________________________

>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR2Sd5Qw6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F353Ka7ifLCb=
9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A252__%3BJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA%24>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mail=
to:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa=
.pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
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permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds th=
ink alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside =
comment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a h=
ref=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.3">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a hre=
f=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.1">4.1</a> an=
d <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-5">5</a=
>, <span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">an egress LSR th=
at signals both ELC<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &=
nbsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which sh=
ould<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmo=
st<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such =
packets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031#section-3.18">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC30=
31]</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is=
 to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the origin=
ating routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or =
implicitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">All Adj-SIDs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cle=
ared in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&n=
bsp; the BGP-LU route.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I=
 have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt=
; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;; Loa=
 Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is p=
roposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transi=
t LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS lab=
el stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>=20mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include=
 adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is w=
ithin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL i=
s exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwa=
rder, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever b=
een defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc=
%2Fhtml%2Frfc5586__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ=
-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588%24">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an o=
ld implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these optio=
ns sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique t=
hat would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only =
pass thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the followin=
g IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Retain the exist=
ing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the Bo=
S<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"=
>Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structure=
s that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry=
 everything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,=

 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to proces=
s such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwardi=
ng).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lf=
o3">Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogniz=
e new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL to help L=
ERs that recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in=
 the ACH (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc=
%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ=
-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%24">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the=
 depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enoug=
h for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably s=
afe=20since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existi=
ng LERs -
<i><a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2?u=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2=
FPrimum_non_nocere__%3B%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQ=
J-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0%24">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-5492663=
02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br=
>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to no=
t tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implic=
ation) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL highe=
r up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LS=
R?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot imme=
diately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no =
other ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, =
given that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any =
kind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been d=
one in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.c=
om/3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__ht=
tps%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2=
A3A%2A2F%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc8169%2A23section=
-3__%3BJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5=
phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%24"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none">https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span=
></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everythin=
g in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, ri=
ght?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54=
9266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexan=
der.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
oa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@=
futurewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong=
@futurewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.ne=
t@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zz=
hang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@=
gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators i=
n the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with=
 ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a s=
pecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on=20GAL and format of ACH are =
hard to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible=
 to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appea=
rs immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label sta=
ck is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data =
maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;=20position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that ther=
e is a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpl=
s-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:=
02 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Al=
exander
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT a=
ddress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data a=
fter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of th=
is email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multi=
ple set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or t=
he proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propo=
sals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfter=
BOS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10=
:46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;=
zzhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><=
span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper=
.net</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email.=20Be cautious o=
f content]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but=
 it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues t=
o sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indi=
cators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&=
quot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this m=
ight lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could =
put a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh =
Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-b=
it set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in =
the above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-o=
ctet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label sta=
ck ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL=
 not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a G=
AL which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. Th=
e BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediat=
ely fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I=
'd like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multip=
le sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the=
 relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls=
@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf=
.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautiou=
s of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your stat=
ement that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &qu=
ot;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of th=
e LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree=
 with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have t=
o be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for diffe=
rent
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, a=
fter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of support=
ing GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks wh=
ere all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presen=
ce of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connect=
ivity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;st=
ewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &=
lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zt=
etx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considera=
ble amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old i=
mplementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed process=
ing model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, di=
scover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW lab=
el.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to appl=
y to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context =
of the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up t=
he stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eit=
her in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the rece=
iving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation =
should just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with =
any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is =
OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the L=
SP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at =
ToS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know=
 what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violat=
ion of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together=
 with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Commun=
ications Inc. and its Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or propriet=
ary for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, discl=
osure, reliance or distribution by
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without expres=
s permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended rec=
ipient, please notify the sender<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete =
all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ____________________________=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
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span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sy=
mantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPx=
dZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.=
org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8o=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01=
%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7=
C1000&amp;amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3=
F6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa=
@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +4=
6 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; ________________________________=
_______________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"=
><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span=
></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3=
R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR2Sd5Qw6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%=
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2A252__%3BJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnY=
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sy=
mantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7if=
LCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%2=
52Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi=
.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21=
 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attac=
hments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. a=
nd its Affiliates that is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sol=
e use of the intended
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance=
 or distribution by others
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; or forwarding without express permission is=
 strictly prohibited. If
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please =
notify the sender
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, inc=
luding any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu=
@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. I=
f you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately=
 and then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"both">
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.<BR>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MW4PR03MB63954ECABD96C12A7A7F9447F60A9MW4PR03MB6395namp_--


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:07:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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> As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when i=
t finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

I believe it does:

- if it does not understand ELI (i.e. does not support RFC 8662) it drops t=
he packet as per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/html/rfc3031#section-3.18>.
- if it understands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662), it processes the EL, ELI =
pair as defined in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.=
1 (The 2nd paragraph explicitly covers the case where the top label is the =
ELI). (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top label that LSR is a=
ctually an LER with PHP enabled)

Regards,
--Bruno


From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Loa Andersson <lo=
a@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__=
;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY=
588$> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementat=
ion that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or =
worst be unpredictable".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due =
to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH=
0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUl=
JSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHt=
M0KyFNp0$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

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>

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> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

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>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

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>

>  >>

>

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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

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> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

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> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

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> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

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>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

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>

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>

>  >>

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>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

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>

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>

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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

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>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

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>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

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--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"22" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"20" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"E=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"E-mail Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Placeholder Te=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"No=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"34" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"L=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"29" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Q=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"30" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 1=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 2=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 3=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 4=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 5=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
ccent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 6=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"19" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"21" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"31" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"32" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"33" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"B=
ook Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
WhenUsed=3D"true" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"TOC Heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"41" Name=3D"Plain Table 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"42" Name=3D"Plain Table 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"43" Name=3D"Plain Table 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"44" Name=3D"Plain Table 4"/>
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<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"tab-interval:=
35.4pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
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guage:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As an aside, =
RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds an [ELI=
, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it understands t=
he label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
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guage:EN-US">I believe it does:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;m=
so-fareast-language:EN-US">- if it does not understand ELI (i.e. does not s=
upport RFC 8662) it drops the packet </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">as per </span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/html/rfc3031#section-3.18"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-la=
nguage:EN-US">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US">- if it understands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662),
 it processes the EL, ELI pair as defined in <a href=3D"https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.1">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.1</a> (The 2<sup>nd=
</sup> paragraph explicitly covers the case where the top label is the ELI)=
. (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top label that LSR is actua=
lly an LER with PHP enabled)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US">--Bruno
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"SpellE"><b><span style=3D"mso-fareast=
-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">From</span></b></span><b><span st=
yle=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">
<span class=3D"SpellE">mpls</span> [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Beh=
alf Of </b>
John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;; Loa =
Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is proposing what I was p=
roposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when =
it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when =
it understands the label pair or when
 it doesn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;mso-ansi-language=
:EN-US">Juniper Business Use Only</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Loa,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include adding a copy of the=
 GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth f=
or any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but =
not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know=
 how to handle it since such handling
 has not ever been defined &#8211; not in <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee t=
hat packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs tha=
t know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH t=
hat immediately follows the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fare=
ast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Define=
 new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures that c=
an be used for this purpose (as
 you have said, &#8220;we can carry everything in the associated channel&#8=
221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necessary &#8211; it will be up to th=
e specific applications to process such structures in ACH, but at least thi=
s would not affect MPLS forwarding).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso=
-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A=
llow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize new =
ACH types to meddle with the information
 carried in the ACH while forwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p><=
/o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman=
&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that r=
ecognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the
 ACH (similar to what has been done in <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7r=
zJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific se=
t of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not =
require any new forwarding functionality
 in existing LERs - <i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wik=
ipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZk=
s_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0$">primum non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-549266302<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not tamper with ACH any=
more&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering =
also with
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to =
make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immediately after the lab=
el stack is
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data =
may be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a=
 GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new informati=
on in
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of R=
FC
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 8169
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.syma=
ntec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*=
2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6=
JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0$"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://clicktime.symant=
ec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2F=
doc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated c=
hannel. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">/Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-549266302<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander
 Vainshtein <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancil=
lary
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because =
it's designed
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the ne=
w use
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible to defend.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appears immediately after =
the bottom
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for th=
e ACH
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mpls-bou=
nces@ietf.org
 &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%=
3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;te=
xt-underline:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;;
 Alexander <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cm=
ailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com
 &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stac=
k and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indic=
ators in the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of this email thread were =
talking about
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary =
data
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/gene=
ric
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu
 &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cm=
ailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com
 &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stac=
k and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to ad=
dress the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the=
 GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data t=
hat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&quot;. So far I have =
seen no real
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; effort to address the interference's this might lead to.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a Bo=
S:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a tr=
ansit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) aft=
er that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label&#43;TOS&#43;S&#43;TTL? If that 4-octet fiel=
d has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stack ends there even th=
ough that's just<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will =
not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not hav=
e the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be fou=
nd
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT=
 address
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary =
data
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons =
first, and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org
 &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:*
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in th=
e stack and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your statement that &quot;an o=
ld implementation that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw=
 an exception or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quot;it is OK to have m=
ultiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that al=
l LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL a=
t ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly&quot;:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree with this statement =
as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to=
 make this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restriction work in=
cluding at least:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The defini=
tion of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Advertisem=
ent of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Ability to=
 set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for different
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, after all this work, w=
e shall find out<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but no=
t BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks where all the nodes sup=
port the new<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presence of non-supporting =
nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilien=
ce.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-5492=
66302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email:
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.co=
m<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span><=
/a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:mpls@iet=
f.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:m=
pls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-und=
erline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in th=
e stack and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 17 Jun 2021, at =
07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Alexander.Vains=
htein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;mailto:Alexande=
r.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While that might be=
 the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try and investigate=
 how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; not the BoS label.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; */[[Sasha]] Great m=
inds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; collecting the know=
n actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this case, say, by =
running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think?/*<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerable amount of work th=
at will take a while.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old implementation that re=
ceived a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst =
be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processing model is to take =
the context of
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW&#43;FAT label, discover the GAL an=
d then process the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW label.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again ha=
d the model that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that=
 preceded it for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new beh=
aviour.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semant=
ic all is good.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the ne=
w semantic then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred either in setting up the=
 LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredi=
ctable, but in
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation should just result in=
 the packet being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed =
packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is OK to have multiple G=
ALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all L=
SRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL a=
t ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be ins=
pected or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, a=
nd to attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violation of the normal MPL=
S processing model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments=
 may contain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its=
 Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use =
of the intended<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or di=
stribution by
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without express permission is stric=
tly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please notify=
 the sender<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:mpls@iet=
f.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec=
.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*25__;JSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMnORLvEs$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">h=
ttps://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=
=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253=
A%252<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flisti=
nfo%2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbe=
BMMj2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.=
com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA=
iLCJQ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;amp;sdata=
=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;res=
erved=3D0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert
<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text=
-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a> &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-d=
ecoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:mpls@iet=
f.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec=
.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*252__;JSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnft=
bs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">h=
ttps://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</sp=
an></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=
=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A=
%252F%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%2=
57C01%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327=
%257C0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C6375953893378813=
84%257<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ=
BTiI6I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyP=
MiCF2K<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; email:
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert
<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text=
-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a> &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-d=
ecoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates tha=
t is
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by o=
thers
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.=
 If
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachment=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">-- <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;email:
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text=
-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=
 you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately a=
nd then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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From: Tarek Saad <tsaad.net@gmail.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Sasha,

Thanks.


1.       >> Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the=
 structures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, =93we can =
carry everything in the associated channel=94, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,=
 if necessary =96 it will be up to the specific applications to process suc=
h structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
[TS]: Yes, this proposal has floated already (with an increment to the vers=
ion in the ACH header). Couple of comments:

1.      How to deal with co-existence of already defined ACH type(s) with t=
he new =93ancillary data=94 ACH type at the same time? i.e. carrying multip=
le ACH(s) in same packet?

2.      Packaging all ancillary data insider one ACH does it become hindran=
ce to allowing some of the ancillary data be processed by some of the nodes=
 along the LSP path?

3.      Would mixing hop-by-hop ancillary data and edge-to-edge ancillary d=
ata in same ACH have further limitations?

4.      There is an open item (from last week) on the DT to investigate whe=
ther insertion at a transit router (i.e. adding ancillary data on transit n=
ode) is doable by HW or even desirable. Would that be a new =93ancillary da=
ta=94 ACH appended to an existing ACH in the same packet?

Regards,
Tarek

On 6/21/21, 6:56 AM, "mpls" <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> wrote:



Loa,

Regarding your question =93Would you include adding a copy of the GAL highe=
r up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR=
?=94  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined =96 not in RFC 55=
86<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586> and not anywhere else. St=
ewart has responded that =93an old implementation that received a ToS GAL n=
ot at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable=94.  N=
either of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS

2.       Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the st=
ructures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, =93we can car=
ry everything in the associated channel=94, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if=
 necessary =96 it will be up to the specific applications to process such s=
tructures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).

3.       Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) reco=
gnize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while=
 forwarding labeled packets in the usual way

4.       Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types =
to meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been=
 done in RFC 8169<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8169>) even if t=
hey cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@g=
mail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3> where G-ACH is=
 used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

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>

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>

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ttps://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%25>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

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>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%252>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi Sasha,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&gt;&gt; </span>De=
fine new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures th=
at can be used for this purpose (as you have said, =93we can carry everythi=
ng in the associated channel=94, including TLVs
 and Sub-TLVs, if necessary =96 it will be up to the specific applications =
to process such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS =
forwarding).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">[TS]: Yes, this pro=
posal has floated already (with an increment to the version in the ACH head=
er). Couple of comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l2 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-li=
st:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">How to deal=
 with co-existence of already defined ACH type(s) with the new =93ancillary=
 data=94 ACH type at the same time? i.e. carrying multiple ACH(s) in same p=
acket?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l2 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-li=
st:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Packaging a=
ll ancillary data insider one ACH does it become hindrance to allowing some=
 of the ancillary data be processed by some of the nodes along the LSP path=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l2 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-li=
st:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Would mixin=
g hop-by-hop ancillary data and edge-to-edge ancillary data in same ACH hav=
e further limitations?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l2 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-li=
st:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">There is an=
 open item (from last week) on the DT to investigate whether insertion at a=
 transit router (i.e. adding ancillary data on transit node) is doable by H=
W or even desirable. Would that be
 a new =93ancillary data=94 ACH appended to an existing ACH in the same pac=
ket?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Tarek<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On 6/21/21, 6:56 AM, &quo=
t;mpls&quot; &lt;mpls-bounces@ietf.org&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Regarding your questio=
n =93Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to m=
ake sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=94&nbsp; my answer i=
s NO.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I have already said on=
 this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing stand=
ards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how to handle it since such=
 handling has not ever been defined
 =96 not in <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586">RFC 5=
586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that =93an old impleme=
ntation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception=
 or worst be unpredictable=94. &nbsp;Neither
 of these options sounds optimistic to me. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I also do not favor in=
vesting into a technique that would guarantee that packets with GAL in the =
middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">However, it is quite p=
ossible to do the following IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">Retain the exi=
sting definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the B=
oS<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary d=
ata, and the structures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said=
, =93we can carry everything in the associated channel=94, including TLVs a=
nd Sub-TLVs, if necessary =96 it will
 be up to the specific applications to process such structures in ACH, but =
at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at B=
oS and (b) recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried i=
n the ACH while forwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize=
 new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar t=
o what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8169">RFC 8169</a>) eve=
n if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stac=
k.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I cannot say whether t=
his approach is good enough for the specific set of applications. But it lo=
oks to me as reasonably safe since it does not require any new forwarding f=
unctionality in existing LERs -
<i><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere">primum non n=
ocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-----Original Message-=
----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;<br>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui=
) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Stewart Bryant &lt;s=
tewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On 21/06/2021 11:55, A=
lexander Vainshtein wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; I fully agree wit=
h the proposal &quot;to not tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV=
, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Would you include addi=
ng a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is within =
readable depth for any LSR?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; As for the questi=
on &quot; If the slot immediately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; reserved for the =
ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; inserted in this =
position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; in the stack&quot=
; the answer, IMHO, is YES.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; However, it is qu=
ite possible to carry any kind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; the ACH, similar =
to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ht=
tps://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3"><span style=3D"colo=
r:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjB=
eGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc=
8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Logically this means t=
hat we can carry everything in the associated channel. However there can on=
ly one ACH per packet, right?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Office: +972-3926=
6302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp=
; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; -----Original Mes=
sage-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; From: Loa Anderss=
on &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Sent: Monday, Jun=
e 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">hsong@futurewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Z=
hang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;=
; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpl=
s] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; data after the Bo=
S<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:=
56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opi=
nion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; for control chann=
el only and so far for a special scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; constraints on GA=
L and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; case requirements=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; I think this is a=
 position that is possible to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; One question thou=
gh.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; RFC 5586 specifie=
s &quot;that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; of the label stac=
k.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; does this mean th=
e no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; position, e.g. MP=
LS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks=
!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----O=
riginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: =
mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@i=
etf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: =
Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Lo=
a Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span st=
yle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.n=
u</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Ste=
wart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a=
 href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subjec=
t: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa=
,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; bu=
t I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I thin=
k the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; multiple indicato=
rs in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; after the BoS, ei=
ther the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; extension headers=
 or a merge of those proposals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; handle it. This i=
s alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffre=
y<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----O=
riginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: =
Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi=
.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: =
Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:zzhang@juniper.net"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:no=
ne">mailto:zzhang@juniper.net</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Ste=
wart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a=
 href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subjec=
t: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [Exter=
nal Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Respon=
ded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; entire discussion=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There =
seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; and I was worried=
 about a set of other indicators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; they might want t=
o put &quot;after the BoS&quot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; effort to address=
 the interference's this might lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Furthe=
r inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/=
06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi=
,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It=
's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2=
: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If=
 the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-=
ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; la=
bel+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LS=
R will think the label stack ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; pa=
rt of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or=
 are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; fo=
llowing it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, =
as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; set will have oth=
er labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; deeper down stack=
 and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes th=
ere are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; multiple indicato=
rs in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; after the BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I thin=
k we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; start working on =
solutions after that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Je=
ffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *F=
rom:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bo=
unces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Al=
exander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Va=
inshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *S=
ent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *T=
o:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *C=
c:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *S=
ubject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; an=
cillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[=
External Email. Be cautious of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; St=
ewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I =
fully agree with your statement that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; re=
ceived a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; wo=
rst be unpredictable&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Re=
garding your statement &quot;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at=
 BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in=
cluding ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be=
 able to process it correctly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction&nbs=
p; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Qu=
ite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing o=
f GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GA=
L not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; correctly in<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be def=
ined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths t=
hat only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; nodes that<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly m=
ust be provided for different
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; techniques<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAl=
go. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It=
 is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; th=
at the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; av=
ailable in the networks where all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; fu=
nctionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ma=
ny restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Re=
gards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sa=
sha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Of=
fice: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Ce=
ll:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Em=
ail: <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *F=
rom:*Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *S=
ent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *T=
o:* Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *C=
c:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorat=
ion:none">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpl=
s@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *S=
ubject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; an=
cillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While that might be the case, I think that the =
Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; give it a<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try and investigate how the existing systems wi=
ll handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; being<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful=
 step could be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; implementations i=
n<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this case, say, by running a survey among the v=
endors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Th=
at is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It=
 seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at=
 BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Th=
e original assumed processing model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW=
 label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in=
 the context of the PW label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Wh=
en we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GA=
L operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; co=
ntext. It was still BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Pu=
tting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If=
 it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If=
 it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a)=
 An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b)=
 The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; we=
ll written implementation should just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dr=
opped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So=
 I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Bo=
S IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in=
cluding ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be=
 able to process it correctly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A =
GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; processed<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by=
 any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; pr=
ecess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - =
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; No=
tice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in=
formation of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; co=
nfidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; re=
cipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; others<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or=
 forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; yo=
u are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; im=
mediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Ju=
niper Business Use Only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; __=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mp=
ls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <a href=3D"https:=
//clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%25">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;https://click=
time.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
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:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2=
F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa An=
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n:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailt=
o:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior=
 MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze=
 Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></=
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r Business Use Only<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls m=
ailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
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//clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%252">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&gt; &lt;https://click=
time.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Loa and all,

Yes, I think ACH and EH are mutual exclusive, so are the GAL and EHI.

Haoyu

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@g=
mail.com>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS


Loa and all,



I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with GAL as =
well.



As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is rese=
rved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be inserted=
 in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack" =
the answer, IMHO, is YES.



However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in the A=
CH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC 8169<https://=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.iet=
f.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3&data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei=
.com%7C42cd0f1c948b4a6ee41f08d9349ab686%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C0%7C637598661371423261%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC=
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DwnP%2BgLiYEMGkb=
wZgNb%2BjtySMbsJ6HPDLYOvjpWh6gZE%3D&reserved=3D0> where G-ACH is used for r=
esidence time measurement.



Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>



-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40jun=
iper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@=
gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Haoyu, DT



On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

> My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed for co=
ntrol channel only and so far for a special scenario. The constraints on GA=
L and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use case requirements.

>

I think this is a position that is possible to defend.



One question though.



RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom of th=
e label stack."



If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH does =
this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this position, e.g.=
 MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?



/Loa



> Thanks!

> Haoyu

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behal=
f Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

> Zhang

> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

> To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Hi Loa,

>

>> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and =
multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

> I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about multip=
le indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the Bo=
S, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers o=
r a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded t=
o the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Jeffrey

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net=
>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>

> DT,

>

> Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the entire dis=
cussion.

>

> There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair, and I=
 was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that they might w=
ant to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real effort to address th=
e interference's this might lead to.

>

> Further inline

>

>

> On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>> Hi,

>>

>> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>>

>>

>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>>

>>      |                              ACH                              |

>>

>>

>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>>

>>      |                         ACH TLV Header                        |

>>

>>

>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>>

>>      |                                                               ~

>>

>>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~

>>

>>      ~                                                               |

>>

>>

>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>>

>>      |                                                               ~

>>

>>      ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~

>>

>>      ~                                                               |

>>

>>

>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>>

>>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>>

>> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat any

>> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the transit

>> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>> part of the ACH.

>>

>> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>> following it?

>

> Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit set wi=
ll have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found deeper down st=
ack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

> Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address multiple in=
dicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

> I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and start wor=
king on solutions after that.

>

> /Loa

>>

>> Jeffrey

>>

>> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> *On Be=
half Of *Alexander

>> Vainshtein

>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com>>

>> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>> ancillary data after the BoS

>>

>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>>

>> Stewart,

>>

>> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>> worst be unpredictable".

>>

>> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

>> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to

>> be able to process it correctly":

>>

>>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>>      restriction work including at least:

>>

>>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at

>>          BoS must be provided

>>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in

>>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that

>>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniques

>>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>>

>> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only

>> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Sasha

>>

>> Office: +972-39266302

>>

>> Cell:      +972-549266302

>>

>> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>

>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>>

>> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>> ancillary data after the BoS

>>

>>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:

>>

>>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it =
a

>>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being

>>      not the BoS label.

>>

>>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in

>>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do you

>>      think?/*

>>

>> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.

>>

>> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not

>> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>>

>> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the

>> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL

>> in the context of the PW label.

>>

>> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that the

>> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>> context. It was still BoS.

>>

>> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>>

>> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>>

>> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>>

>> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.

>>

>> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any

>> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>>

>> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not at

>> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known to

>> be able to process it correctly.

>>

>> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or processed

>> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>>

>> - Stewart

>>

>>

>> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

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>> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

>> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

>> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>>

>>

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>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:lo=
a.pi.nu@gmail.com>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
e notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any a=
ttachments.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, I think ACH and EH are mutual exclusive, so are=
 the GAL and EHI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vain=
shtein@rbbn.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 2:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Stewart Bryan=
t &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not tamp=
er with ACH anymore&quot;.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">From my POV, this includes (by implication) not t=
ampering also with GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">As for the question &quot; If the slot immediatel=
y after the label stack is reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other=
 ancillary data may be inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given tha=
t there is a GAL in the stack&quot; the answer,
 IMHO, is YES. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to carry any kind o=
f new information in the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3&amp;data=3D04%7=
C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C42cd0f1c948b4a6ee41f08d9349ab686%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637598661371423261%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&=
amp;sdata=3DwnP%2BgLiYEMGkbwZgNb%2BjtySMbsJ6HPDLYOvjpWh6gZE%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">
Section 3 of RFC 8169</a> where G-ACH is used for residence time measuremen=
t. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<br>
To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.c=
om</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40junipe=
r.net@dmarc.ietf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Alexan=
der Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;;
 Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore=
 because it's designed for control channel only and so far for a special sc=
enario. The constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the n=
ew use case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I think this is a position that is possible to de=
fend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appears imm=
ediately after the bottom of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">If the slot immediately after the label stack is =
reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inser=
ted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stac=
k?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounce=
s@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-boun=
ces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@=
pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</spa=
n></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT address multi=
ple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the B=
oS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think the earlier emails of this email thr=
ead were talking about multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set o=
f ancillary data after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPL=
S/generic extension headers or a merge
 of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded to the Dat=
aAfterBOS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:n=
one">zzhang@juniper.net</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; [External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is inten=
ded to address the entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; There seem to be enough issues to sort out a=
round the GAL/ACH pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators a=
nd the data that they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&quot;. So far I=
 have seen no real effort to address the interference's
 this might lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang=
 wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could put a GAL no=
t at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH TLV Header=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Message&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bit set, woul=
dn't a transit LSR treat any
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Fi=
gure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field h=
as the S-bit set, the transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stack ends ther=
e even though that's just
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL not at the =
BoS will not have the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Well, as far as I understand a GAL which doe=
s not have the NoS-bit set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit=
 will be found deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the B=
oS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to s=
ee the DT address multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of anc=
illary data after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think we need to nail down the relevant qu=
estiuons first, and start working on solutions after that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls=
-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><=
span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicat=
ors in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious of content=
]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; I fully agree with your statement that &=
quot;an old implementation that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at b=
est throw an exception or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quot;it is OK =
to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensure=
d that all LSRs on the LSP,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found =
the GAL at ToS were known to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly&quot;:<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree with this s=
tatement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to be done in=
 order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restrictio=
n work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. T=
he definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. A=
dvertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly in<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. A=
bility to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes that<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniqu=
es<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; It is still possible that, after all thi=
s work, we shall find out
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporting GAL at T=
oS but not BoS will be only
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; available in the networks where all the =
nodes support the new
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; functionality because presence of non-su=
pporting nodes imposes too
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; many restrictions on connectivity and/or=
 resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972=
-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vains=
htein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant=
@gmail.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewar=
t.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander=
.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:A=
lexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@=
gmail.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewar=
t.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregor=
y.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicat=
ors in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 17 Jun =
2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Alexan=
der.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;=
text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&g=
t; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While that=
 might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try and in=
vestigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; not the Bo=
S label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; */[[Sasha]=
] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; collecting=
 the known actual behavior of popular implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this case,=
 say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think?/*<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; That is actually a considerable amount o=
f work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old implementatio=
n that received a ToS GAL not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an exception =
or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; The original assumed processing model is=
 to take the context of the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the G=
AL and then process the GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; in the context of the PW label.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we=
 again had the model that the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context of the LSP l=
abel that preceded it for
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up the stack is =
a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that knows the n=
ew semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that does not kn=
ow the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred either in setti=
ng up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the receiving node i=
s unpredictable, but in any
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; well written implementation should just =
result in the packet being
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with any other Ma=
l-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; So I would think that it is OK to have m=
ultiple GALs and GALs not at
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured t=
hat all LSRs on the LSP,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found =
the GAL at ToS were known to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should n=
ot be inspected or processed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know what it was=
 doing, and to attempt to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; precess it would be a violation of the n=
ormal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/ZFek94OdjP-K8QgyLOe6xHPkoA0>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:38:10 -0000

Hi Bruno,

For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in the pac=
ket? What if it doesn't have such a label?
Thanks!

Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>=20
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>=
; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the Bo=
S

[+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]

> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
>=20
> Jeffrey,
>=20
>=20
> On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > Hi Loa,
> >
> >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack=20
> >> and multiple
> sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> >
> > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about=20
> > multiple indicators
> in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS, either=20
> the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers or a=20
> merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded=20
> to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
>=20
> hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in several=20
> drafts
>=20
>   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH indicator
>=20
>   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a=20
> special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
>=20
>   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in=20
> the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
>=20
>   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL=20
> higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun readable=20
> depth might reach the GAL
>=20
>   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in=20
> the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
>=20
>   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential indicators,=20
> that is also telling if the EH should be processed on every EH capable=20
> node or "just" at ingress and egress

The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra=
cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label=
-id%23section-2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b=
6895f808d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217=
6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI=
6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIl=
gbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.

Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
-  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is already used=
 for load balancing
-  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose MPLS Lab=
el value)
- allows location freedom
- does not need control plane extension

Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table 5 in o=
rder to include the above draft?

Thanks,
Regards,
--Bruno
=20
>=20
> The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
>=20
> I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
>=20
> - first what we want to have
> - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
>    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
>=20
> /Loa
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Jeffrey
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander=20
> > Vainshtein
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=20
> > data after
> the BoS
> >
> > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> >
> >
> > DT,
> >
> > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the=20
> > entire discussion.
> >
> > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,=20
> > and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that=20
> > they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real=20
> > effort to address the interference's this might lead to.
> >
> > Further inline
> >
> >
> > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> >>
> >>     =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >>      |                              ACH                              |
> >>
> >>     =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                        |
> >>
> >>     =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >>      |                                                               ~
> >>
> >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                     ~
> >>
> >>      ~                                                               |
> >>
> >>     =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >>      |                                                               ~
> >>
> >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                          ~
> >>
> >>      ~                                                               |
> >>
> >>     =20
> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >>
> >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> >>
> >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat=20
> >> any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as=20
> >> a
> >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the=20
> >> label+TOS+S+transit
> >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just=20
> >> part of the ACH.
> >>
> >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH=20
> >> following it?
> >
> > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit=20
> > set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found=20
> > deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> >
> > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address=20
> > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.
> >
> > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and=20
> > start working on solutions after that.
> >
> > /Loa
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> >> Vainshtein
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> >> ancillary data after the BoS
> >>
> >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> >>
> >> Stewart,
> >>
> >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that=20
> >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or=20
> >> worst be unpredictable".
> >>
> >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs=20
> >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the=20
> >> LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were=20
> >> known to be able to process it correctly":
> >>
> >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> >>      restriction work including at least:
> >>
> >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not at
> >>          BoS must be provided
> >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctly =
in
> >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes th=
at
> >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techniqu=
es
> >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> >>
> >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out =20
> >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only=20
> >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new=20
> >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too=20
> >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Sasha
> >>
> >> Office: +972-39266302
> >>
> >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> >>
> >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> >>
> >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=20
> >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com=20
> >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org=20
> >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> >> ancillary data after the BoS
> >>
> >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give i=
t a
> >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL bein=
g
> >>      not the BoS label.
> >>
> >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations i=
n
> >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do y=
ou
> >>      think?/*
> >>
> >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
> >>
> >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL=20
> >> not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
> >>
> >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the=20
> >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL=20
> >> in the context of the PW label.
> >>
> >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that=20
> >> the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it=20
> >> for context. It was still BoS.
> >>
> >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> >>
> >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> >>
> >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> >>
> >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardin=
g.
> >>
> >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any=20
> >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being=20
> >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> >>
> >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not=20
> >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,=20
> >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known=20
> >> to be able to process it correctly.
> >>
> >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or=20
> >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to=20
> >> attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processi=
ng model.
> >>
> >> - Stewart
> >>
> >>
> >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain=20
> >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that=20
> >> is confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended=20
> >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by=20
> >> others or forwarding without express permission is strictly=20
> >> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify=20
> >> the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any attac=
hments.
> >>
> >>
> >> Juniper Business Use Only
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpls mailing list
> >> mpls@ietf.org
> >>
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furld
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F
> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yM&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d722072
> 7794b6895f808d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C6
> 37598622176314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DzE3QHyImI86j7K
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> q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2AnexFnPevXopeK1a6u$
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> >
> > Juniper Business Use Only
> >
>=20
> --
>=20
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
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> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmpls&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40future
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> 591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637598622176324952%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;s
> data=3Db7TztzRbKspQdyrJ8%2Btps6IeLQlCl3E0mrgvJRydlTk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Haoyu,

> From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
>=20
> Hi Bruno,
>=20
> For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in the p=
acket?

Yes. (Both ELI and EL.)

> What if it doesn't have such a label?

The node requiring the indicator adds the Entropy Label (ELI, EL). I guess =
same principle as the other options discussed in the Figure 5 of draft-song=
-mpls-eh-indicator.
In which case you get Entropy information for free (I mean no extra label).=
 But from the entropy standpoint, it would be better to have the EL, ELI pu=
shed by the ingress as this is the node which should have the most entropy =
information.

Thanks,
--Bruno

> Thanks!
>=20
> Haoyu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
> To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.ne=
t>;
> Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the =
BoS
>=20
> [+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]
>=20
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> >
> > Jeffrey,
> >
> >
> > On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > Hi Loa,
> > >
> > >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the stack
> > >> and multiple
> > sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> > >
> > > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about
> > > multiple indicators
> > in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS, either
> > the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension headers or a
> > merge of those proposals should be able to handle it. This is alluded
> > to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> >
> > hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in several
> > drafts
> >
> >   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH indicator
> >
> >   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a
> > special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
> >
> >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in
> > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> >
> >   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL
> > higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun readable
> > depth might reach the GAL
> >
> >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in
> > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> >
> >   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential indicators,
> > that is also telling if the EH should be processed on every EH capable
> > node or "just" at ingress and egress
>=20
> The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker
> .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-
> id%23section-
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b6895f808
> d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217
> 6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK
> 0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIlgbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>=20
> It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.
>=20
> Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
> -  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is already us=
ed for
> load balancing
> -  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose MPLS L=
abel
> value)
> - allows location freedom
> - does not need control plane extension
>=20
> Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table 5 in=
 order to
> include the above draft?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Regards,
> --Bruno
>=20
> >
> > The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
> >
> > I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
> >
> > - first what we want to have
> > - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
> >    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jeffrey
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander
> > > Vainshtein
> > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
> > > data after
> > the BoS
> > >
> > > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> > >
> > >
> > > DT,
> > >
> > > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the
> > > entire discussion.
> > >
> > > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
> > > and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that
> > > they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real
> > > effort to address the interference's this might lead to.
> > >
> > > Further inline
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                              ACH                             =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                       =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                                                              =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                    =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                                                              =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                                                              =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                         =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                                                              =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> > >>
> > >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
> > >> any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as
> > >> a
> > >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the
> > >> label+TOS+S+transit
> > >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just
> > >> part of the ACH.
> > >>
> > >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
> > >> following it?
> > >
> > > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit
> > > set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found
> > > deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> > >
> > > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address
> > > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data =
after the
> BoS.
> > >
> > > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and
> > > start working on solutions after that.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >>
> > >> Jeffrey
> > >>
> > >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> > >> Vainshtein
> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> > >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > >>
> > >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> > >>
> > >> Stewart,
> > >>
> > >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that
> > >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or
> > >> worst be unpredictable".
> > >>
> > >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
> > >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
> > >> LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were
> > >> known to be able to process it correctly":
> > >>
> > >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> > >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> > >>      restriction work including at least:
> > >>
> > >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not =
at
> > >>          BoS must be provided
> > >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctl=
y in
> > >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> > >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes =
that
> > >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techni=
ques
> > >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> > >>
> > >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out
> > >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be only
> > >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new
> > >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too
> > >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Sasha
> > >>
> > >> Office: +972-39266302
> > >>
> > >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> > >>
> > >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> > >>
> > >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> > >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> > >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
> > >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org
> > >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > >>
> > >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> > >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give=
 it a
> > >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL be=
ing
> > >>      not the BoS label.
> > >>
> > >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> > >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations=
 in
> > >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do=
 you
> > >>      think?/*
> > >>
> > >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a whil=
e.
> > >>
> > >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL
> > >> not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictabl=
e.
> > >>
> > >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of the
> > >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the GAL
> > >> in the context of the PW label.
> > >>
> > >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that
> > >> the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it
> > >> for context. It was still BoS.
> > >>
> > >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> > >>
> > >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> > >>
> > >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> > >>
> > >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forward=
ing.
> > >>
> > >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in any
> > >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being
> > >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> > >>
> > >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
> > >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
> > >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known
> > >> to be able to process it correctly.
> > >>
> > >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or
> > >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to
> > >> attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS proces=
sing
> model.
> > >>
> > >> - Stewart
> > >>
> > >>
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> > > --
> > >
> > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > >
> > > Juniper Business Use Only
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> >
> > --
> >
> > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
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> >
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From: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 17:44:26 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/In9y1ul54MDnJmaHLrGCINLP5ys>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Bruno,=20

Thanks for the clarification. We might have some issues using the forced bi=
nding in some cases. For example, in our EH architecture, we allow an EH to=
 be inserted or removed at any nodes on an LSP. Also, ELI+EI are two labels=
, which is more expensive than one SPL solution. Having said this, I could =
list your proposal as a possible solution.

BTW, Kireeti and I have discussed a possible option working in a different =
way.
We would use a new SPL to indicate multiples things (also by encoding the u=
nused TTL/CoS bits): the existence of other special labels in the label sta=
ck (e.g., ELI+EL) and the existence/location of extension headers after the=
 label stack. Since we have a new SPL, we have more freedom to define its b=
ehavior.=20

Best,
Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>=20
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:49 AM
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Z=
haohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-e=
h-indicator@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the Bo=
S

Hi Haoyu,

> From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
>=20
> Hi Bruno,
>=20
> For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in the p=
acket?

Yes. (Both ELI and EL.)

> What if it doesn't have such a label?

The node requiring the indicator adds the Entropy Label (ELI, EL). I guess =
same principle as the other options discussed in the Figure 5 of draft-song=
-mpls-eh-indicator.
In which case you get Entropy information for free (I mean no extra label).=
 But from the entropy standpoint, it would be better to have the EL, ELI pu=
shed by the ingress as this is the node which should have the most entropy =
information.

Thanks,
--Bruno

> Thanks!
>=20
> Haoyu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
> To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang=20
> <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein=20
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=20
> the BoS
>=20
> [+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]
>=20
> > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> >
> > Jeffrey,
> >
> >
> > On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > Hi Loa,
> > >
> > >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the=20
> > >> stack and multiple
> > sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> > >
> > > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about=20
> > > multiple indicators
> > in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS,=20
> > either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension=20
> > headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it.=20
> > This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> >
> > hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in=20
> > several drafts
> >
> >   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH indicator
> >
> >   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a=20
> > special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
> >
> >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in=20
> > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> >
> >   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL=20
> > higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun=20
> > readable depth might reach the GAL
> >
> >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in=20
> > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> >
> >   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential indicators,=20
> > that is also telling if the EH should be processed on every EH=20
> > capable node or "just" at ingress and egress
>=20
> The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata
> tracker
> .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-labe
> l-
> id%23section-
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b6895f808
> d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217
> 6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK
> 0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIlgbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>=20
> It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.
>=20
> Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
> -  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is already=20
> used for load balancing
> -  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose=20
> MPLS Label
> value)
> - allows location freedom
> - does not need control plane extension
>=20
> Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table 5=20
> in order to include the above draft?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Regards,
> --Bruno
>=20
> >
> > The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
> >
> > I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
> >
> > - first what we want to have
> > - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
> >    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jeffrey
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander=20
> > > Vainshtein
> > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > > ancillary data after
> > the BoS
> > >
> > > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> > >
> > >
> > > DT,
> > >
> > > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the=20
> > > entire discussion.
> > >
> > > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH=20
> > > pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the=20
> > > data that they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have=20
> > > seen no real effort to address the interference's this might lead to.
> > >
> > > Further inline
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                              ACH                             =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                       =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                                                              =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                    =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                                                              =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>      |                                                              =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                         =
 ~
> > >>
> > >>      ~                                                              =
 |
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >>
> > >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> > >>
> > >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat=20
> > >> any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL=20
> > >> as a
> > >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the=20
> > >> label+TOS+S+transit
> > >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just=20
> > >> part of the ACH.
> > >>
> > >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH=20
> > >> following it?
> > >
> > > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit=20
> > > set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found=20
> > > deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> > >
> > > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address=20
> > > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary=20
> > > data after the
> BoS.
> > >
> > > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and=20
> > > start working on solutions after that.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >>
> > >> Jeffrey
> > >>
> > >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> > >> Vainshtein
> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> > >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > >>
> > >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> > >>
> > >> Stewart,
> > >>
> > >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation=20
> > >> that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an=20
> > >> exception or worst be unpredictable".
> > >>
> > >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs=20
> > >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on=20
> > >> the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS=20
> > >> were known to be able to process it correctly":
> > >>
> > >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> > >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> > >>      restriction work including at least:
> > >>
> > >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but not =
at
> > >>          BoS must be provided
> > >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correctl=
y in
> > >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> > >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross nodes =
that
> > >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different techni=
ques
> > >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> > >>
> > >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out=20
> > >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be=20
> > >> only available in the networks where all the nodes support the=20
> > >> new functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes=20
> > >> imposes too many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Sasha
> > >>
> > >> Office: +972-39266302
> > >>
> > >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> > >>
> > >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> > >>
> > >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> > >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=20
> > >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> > >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com=20
> > >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org=20
> > >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > >>
> > >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> > >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give=
 it a
> > >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL be=
ing
> > >>      not the BoS label.
> > >>
> > >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> > >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations=
 in
> > >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what do=
 you
> > >>      think?/*
> > >>
> > >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a whil=
e.
> > >>
> > >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL=20
> > >> not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictabl=
e.
> > >>
> > >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of=20
> > >> the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process=20
> > >> the GAL in the context of the PW label.
> > >>
> > >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that=20
> > >> the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it=20
> > >> for context. It was still BoS.
> > >>
> > >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> > >>
> > >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> > >>
> > >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> > >>
> > >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forward=
ing.
> > >>
> > >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in=20
> > >> any well written implementation should just result in the packet=20
> > >> being dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> > >>
> > >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not=20
> > >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the=20
> > >> LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were=20
> > >> known to be able to process it correctly.
> > >>
> > >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or=20
> > >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to=20
> > >> attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS=20
> > >> processing
> model.
> > >>
> > >> - Stewart
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain=20
> > >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that=20
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> > >>
> > >>
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> > >>
> > >>
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> 2072
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> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > >
> > > Juniper Business Use Only
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> >
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 18:41:22 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/tfxrQVshFiIC3xbIdM5JYpiJXfg>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi,

I'm familiar with the references, comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:08 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vain=
shtein@rbbn.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the Bo=
S

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

> As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when i=
t finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

I believe it does:

- if it does not understand ELI (i.e. does not support RFC 8662) it drops t=
he packet as per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http=
s:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0=
qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJXGCvWO0$>.



[JD]  This section does not define the behavior of a transit LSR that recei=
ves a reserved label at the top of the MPLS label stack.


- if it understands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662), it processes the EL, ELI =
pair as defined in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.=
1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*=
section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW1=
2eGRaQxzkmJKW3xpzU$> (The 2nd paragraph explicitly covers the case where th=
e top label is the ELI). (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top =
label that LSR is actually an LER with PHP enabled)

[JD]  This section defines the behavior of an egress LSR that receives an [=
ELI, EL] pair.  It does not define the behavior of a transit LSR that recei=
ves an [ELI, EL] at the top of the MPLS label stack.  At the very least, RF=
C 8662 should have defined which transit LSR, the LSR popping the SID above=
 the [ELI, EL] pair or the LSR receiving it should remove it and stipulatin=
g that once that behavior is defined, ensuring that the subject transit rou=
ter must understand entropy labels.

My bigger point is that we are defining all sorts of nifty new functions wh=
ile ignoring incremental deployment.  If we edict that every LSR needs to u=
nderstand every nifty new function before those functions may be deployed, =
then we are ensuring that those nifty new functions will never be deployed.


Regards,
--Bruno


From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__=
;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY=
588$> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementat=
ion that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or =
worst be unpredictable".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due =
to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH=
0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUl=
JSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHt=
M0KyFNp0$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

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>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5=
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J-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMnORLvEs$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  > _______________________________________________

>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAz=
jZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*252__;JSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wN=
vQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
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ttachments.

___________________________________________________________________________=
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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;m familiar with the references, comments inl=
ine.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.com &lt;bruno.dec=
raene@orange.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 12:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=
 the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;
</span>As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do w=
hen it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either w=
hen it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">I believe it does:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">- if it does =
not understand ELI (i.e. does not support RFC 8662) it drops the packet </s=
pan>as per <span lang=3D"FR"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLM=
fPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJXGCvWO0$"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</span></a></span>.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; This section does not define the behavior of a trans=
it LSR that receives a reserved label at the top of the MPLS label stack. <=
o:p></o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">- if it understands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662), it =
processes the EL, ELI pair as defined in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc6790*section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVH=
urnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJKW3xpzU$">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.1</a> (The 2<sup>nd=
</sup> paragraph explicitly covers the case where the top label is the ELI)=
. (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top label that LSR is actua=
lly an LER with PHP enabled)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; This section defines the behavior o=
f an egress LSR that receives an [ELI, EL] pair.&nbsp; It does not define t=
he behavior of a transit LSR that receives an [ELI, EL] at the top of the M=
PLS label stack.&nbsp; At the very least, RFC 8662
 should have defined which transit LSR, the LSR popping the SID above the [=
ELI, EL] pair or the LSR receiving it should remove it and stipulating that=
 once that behavior is defined, ensuring that the subject transit router mu=
st understand entropy labels.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>My bigger point is that we are defining all so=
rts of nifty new functions while ignoring incremental deployment.&nbsp; If =
we edict that every LSR needs to understand every nifty new function before=
 those functions may be deployed, then
 we are ensuring that those nifty new functions will never be deployed. &nb=
sp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">--Bruno
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"F=
R"> mpls [<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf=
.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is pr=
oposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit=
 LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label=
 stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include =
adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is wit=
hin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is=
 exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forward=
er, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been=
 defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc5586__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD=
0vSHtMt9fY588$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique th=
at would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pa=
ss thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the following=
 IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Retain the existi=
ng definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">De=
fine new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures th=
at can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry ever=
ything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,
 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to process=
 such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding=
).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"=
>Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize ne=
w ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while forward=
ing labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs tha=
t recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH=
 (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD=
0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough=
 for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably saf=
e since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LE=
Rs -
<i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prim=
um_non_nocere__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6l=
EzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0$">primum non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not=
 tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implica=
tion) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no o=
ther ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, g=
iven that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any k=
ind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been do=
ne in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yM=
aO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0$"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.symant=
ec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2F=
doc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everything=
 in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, righ=
t?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549=
266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@f=
uturewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with =
ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a sp=
ecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are har=
d to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible =
to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appear=
s immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stac=
k is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data m=
aybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there i=
s a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:0=
2 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;tex=
t-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexa=
nder
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT ad=
dress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of thi=
s email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multip=
le set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or th=
e proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propos=
als should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterB=
OS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:=
46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;z=
zhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of c=
ontent]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but =
it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to=
 sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indic=
ators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&q=
uot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this mi=
ght lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could p=
ut a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH=
 TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Mes=
sage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bi=
t set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in t=
he above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-oc=
tet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stac=
k ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL =
not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GA=
L which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The=
 BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediate=
ly fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'=
d like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the =
relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious=
 of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your state=
ment that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS=
 would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quo=
t;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree =
with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to=
 be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for differe=
nt
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, af=
ter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporti=
ng GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks whe=
re all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presenc=
e of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connecti=
vity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alex=
ander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorati=
on:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerab=
le amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old im=
plementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an=
 exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processi=
ng model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, dis=
cover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply=
 to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context o=
f the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up th=
e stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eith=
er in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the recei=
ving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation s=
hould just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with a=
ny other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is O=
K to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LS=
P ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at T=
oS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violati=
on of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together =
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mai=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
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nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 6=
4<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attach=
ments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. an=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a><=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
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 you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately a=
nd then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<o:p><=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/GoltRdOxyOuA13impT7Yif35sU4>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*section-4.3__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6m=
R2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI$> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuw=
eTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI$> and 5<https://urldefense.co=
m/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*section-5__;Iw!!NEt6yMa=
O-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY$>, an =
egress LSR that signals both ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJF=
XxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs$>.



[JD]  If that's the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs =
for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (expli=
citly or implicitly), including:

  1.  All Adj-SIDs
  2.  All EPE SIDs
  3.  IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared in=
 IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)
  4.  BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the BGP=
-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved i=
n PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LpX2kp84U26Bibb=
Lu6xFzk6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker=
.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc5586__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRt=
xhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NE=
t6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA$>=
 and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementation t=
hat received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst=
 be unpredictable".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/38=
9RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A=
*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiSt=
nftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*24__;JSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02=
ro1mHvz6RrTE$>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to th=
e depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNF=
kFG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fen.wikipedia.or=
g*2Fwiki*2FPrimum_non_nocere__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6=
LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMa=
O-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3F=
Fh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2=
Fdoc*2A2Fhtml*2A2Frfc8169*2A23section-3__*3BJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Q=
iStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*24__;JSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6=
yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measure=
ment.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

>  >> mpls mailing list

>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3G18FNxso3yysVeGE2=
oYas86H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.sym=
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jIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHiE0sPVM$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  > _______________________________________________

>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR=
2Sd5Qw6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.sy=
mantec.com*2F353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A252__*3BJSU*21*2=
1NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cy=
bmA*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7o=
dXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mH2RXrzIw$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

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> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
e notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any a=
ttachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vain=
shtein@rbbn.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Andersson=
 &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds thi=
nk alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside c=
omment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a hr=
ef=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6=
790*section-4.3__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLG=
Vqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI$">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc679=
0*section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVq=
s-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI$">4.1</a> and <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*section-5__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8=
p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY$">5</a>, <span=
 style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">an egress LSR that signal=
s both ELC<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &n=
bsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which shou=
ld<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such pa=
ckets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;I=
w!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlx=
MBs$">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC =
8662 is not deployable.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is =
to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the originat=
ing routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or imp=
licitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo3">
All Adj-SIDs <o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:=
#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#=
1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared in IS-IS=
, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&nbsp; the BGP-=
LU route.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I =
have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is pr=
oposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit=
 LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label=
 stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include =
adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is wit=
hin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is=
 exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forward=
er, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been=
 defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LpX2k=
p84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc5586__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1m=
HeNCd6vA$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique th=
at would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pa=
ss thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the following=
 IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">Retain the existi=
ng definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">De=
fine new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures th=
at can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry ever=
ything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,
 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to process=
 such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding=
).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6"=
>Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize ne=
w ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while forward=
ing labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs tha=
t recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH=
 (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/389RV1=
YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1m=
Hvz6RrTE$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough=
 for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably saf=
e since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LE=
Rs -
<i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3Gd=
XcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*=
2Fen.wikipedia.org*2Fwiki*2FPrimum_non_nocere__*3B*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStn=
ftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*24__;JSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro=
1mHSI9qHKg$">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not=
 tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implica=
tion) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no o=
ther ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, g=
iven that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any k=
ind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been do=
ne in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fu=
rldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7=
C3a3Sa76H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2A2Fhtml*=
2A2Frfc8169*2A23section-3__*3BJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftbs7rzJ6J=
ZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02r=
o1mHvEw3iqk$"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https:/=
/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everything=
 in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, righ=
t?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549=
266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@f=
uturewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with =
ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a sp=
ecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are har=
d to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible =
to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appear=
s immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stac=
k is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data m=
aybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there i=
s a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:0=
2 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;tex=
t-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexa=
nder
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT ad=
dress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of thi=
s email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multip=
le set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or th=
e proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propos=
als should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterB=
OS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:=
46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;z=
zhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of c=
ontent]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but =
it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to=
 sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indic=
ators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&q=
uot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this mi=
ght lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could p=
ut a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH=
 TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Mes=
sage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bi=
t set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in t=
he above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-oc=
tet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stac=
k ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL =
not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GA=
L which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The=
 BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediate=
ly fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'=
d like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the =
relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious=
 of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your state=
ment that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS=
 would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quo=
t;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree =
with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to=
 be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for differe=
nt
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, af=
ter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporti=
ng GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks whe=
re all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presenc=
e of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connecti=
vity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alex=
ander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorati=
on:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerab=
le amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old im=
plementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an=
 exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processi=
ng model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, dis=
cover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply=
 to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context o=
f the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up th=
e stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eith=
er in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the recei=
ving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation s=
hould just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with a=
ny other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is O=
K to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LS=
P ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at T=
oS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violati=
on of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together =
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________________________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
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pbG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A25__*3BJSU*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtx=
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NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHiE0sPVM=
$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxd=
Ze1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o=
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob=
1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%=
7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C=
1000&amp;amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F=
6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi=
.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mai=
lto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 =
739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; _________________________________=
______________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
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xhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mH2RXrzI=
w$">
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antec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifL=
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4092e29708d931a0e327%257C0<o:p></o:p></p>
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257C637595389337881384%257<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DX=
QlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%=
3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.=
nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 6=
4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attach=
ments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. an=
d its Affiliates that is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sole=
 use of the intended
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance =
or distribution by others
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; or forwarding without express permission is =
strictly prohibited. If
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please n=
otify the sender
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, incl=
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nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></p>
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Hi Sasha,
great discussion, thank you!
Please find my notes below in-line tagged by GIM>>.

Best regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: AlexanderVainshtein
To: Loa Andersson;
CC: mpls@ietf.org;Haoyu Song;Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang;
Date: 2021/06/21 03:56
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

Loa,
Regarding your question “Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?”  my answer is NO.
I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, 
GIM>> I would not refer to existing implementation that supports GAL only as BoS being standards-complaint. I believe that earlier, we've established that the requirement in RFC 5586 "GAL MUST be BoS" applies only and only to an MPLS-TP environment. RFC 55886 and all standards up to date are underspecified for other scenarios. I understand that developers used their best judgment by implementing GAL as strictly BoS, but that doesn't have any foundation in current RFCs. We seem to agree on this characterization of the state of the use of GAL in a non-MPLS-TP environment. Hence, the next step could be closing the gap in the GAL specification. It appears there are two possible paths:
- have a short document extending GAL is only BoS to all MPLS environments;
- allow GAL as ToS while != BoS.
In either case, GAL indicates that a single ACH immediately follows the BoS.

 it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been defined – not in RFC 5586 and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that “an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable”.  Neither of these options  sounds optimistic to me.
I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:
1.       Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the BoS
2.       Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, “we can carry everything in the associated channel”, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,  if necessary – it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
GIM>> That, to me, is a logical conclusion of #1. I might propose to allocate a new, different from GAL, SPL to signal that the "new ACH immediately follows the BoS". And we might avoid terminology confusion in the future if the new ACH is named differently, e.g., "MPLS Extension Header (MEH)".

3.       Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while forwarding labeled packets in the usual way
GIM>> If we use a new SPL (why not call it MEHI), we can allow MEHI to be not BoS, and thus an LSR can react to its presence in the stack. Consequently, MEHI  can appear in the stack more than once.

4.       Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been done in RFC 8169) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.
I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere.
My 2c,
Sasha
Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
Sasha,
On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
> Loa and all,
>
> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".
>
>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with
> GAL as well.
Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?
>
> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is
> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be
> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL
> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.
>
> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in
> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC
> 8169
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3>  where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.
Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?
/Loa
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
> Office: +972-39266302
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302
>
> Email:    Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM
> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Alexander Vainshtein
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary
> data after the BoS
>
> Haoyu, DT
>
> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:
>
>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed
> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The
> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use
> case requirements.
>
>  >
>
> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.
>
> One question though.
>
> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom
> of the label stack."
>
> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH
> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this
> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?
>
> /Loa
>
>  > Thanks!
>
>  > Haoyu
>
>  >
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>
>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)
>
>  > Zhang
>
>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM
>
>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>; Alexander
> Vainshtein
>
>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>
>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>
>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>
>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> ancillary
>
>  > data after the BoS
>
>  >
>
>  > Hi Loa,
>
>  >
>
>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the
> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
>
>  >
>
>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about
> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data
> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic
> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to
> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
>
>  >
>
>  > Thanks.
>
>  >
>
>  > Jeffrey
>
>  >
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>
>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
>
>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
>
>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net
> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein
>
>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant
>
>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>
>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>
>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> ancillary
>
>  > data after the BoS
>
>  >
>
>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > DT,
>
>  >
>
>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the
> entire discussion.
>
>  >
>
>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that
> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real
> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.
>
>  >
>
>  > Further inline
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
>
>  >> Hi,
>
>  >>
>
>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      |                              ACH
> |
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header
> |
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      |
> ~
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs
> ~
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      ~
> |
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      |
> ~
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message
> ~
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      ~
> |
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>  >>
>
>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
>
>  >>
>
>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
> any
>
>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a
>
>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the
> transit
>
>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just
>
>  >> part of the ACH.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
>
>  >> following it?
>
>  >
>
>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit
> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found
> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
>
>  >
>
>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address
> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data
> after the BoS.
>
>  >
>
>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and
> start working on solutions after that.
>
>  >
>
>  > /Loa
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Jeffrey
>
>  >>
>
>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>
> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
>
>  >> Vainshtein
>
>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
>
>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>
>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>
>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
>
>  >> ancillary data after the BoS
>
>  >>
>
>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Stewart,
>
>  >>
>
>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that
>
>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or
>
>  >> worst be unpredictable".
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
> not
>
>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
> LSP,
>
>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known
> to
>
>  >> be able to process it correctly":
>
>  >>
>
>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.
>
>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
>
>  >>      restriction work including at least:
>
>  >>
>
>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
> not at
>
>  >>          BoS must be provided
>
>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
> correctly in
>
>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
>
>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
> nodes that
>
>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different
> techniques
>
>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
>
>  >>
>
>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out
>
>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
> only
>
>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new
>
>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too
>
>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Regards,
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Sasha
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Office: +972-39266302
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Email:  Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
>
>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>
>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>
>
>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
>
>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>
>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>
>
>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>
>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
>
>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;
> mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
>
>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>
>
>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
>
>  >> ancillary data after the BoS
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
>
>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
>
>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
> give it a
>
>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
> being
>
>  >>      not the BoS label.
>
>  >>
>
>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
>
>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular
> implementations in
>
>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
> do you
>
>  >>      think?/*
>
>  >>
>
>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL
> not
>
>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of
> the
>
>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the
> GAL
>
>  >> in the context of the PW label.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that
> the
>
>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for
>
>  >> context. It was still BoS.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
>
>  >>
>
>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in
> any
>
>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being
>
>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
> at
>
>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,
>
>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known
> to
>
>  >> be able to process it correctly.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or
> processed
>
>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to
>
>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.
>
>  >>
>
>  >> - Stewart
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
>
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> is
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>  > --
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>  >
>
>  > Loa Andersson                        email:  loa@pi.nu
> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
>
>  > Senior MPLS Expert  loa.pi.nu@gmail.com <mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>
>
>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
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>
>  >
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> --
>
> Loa Andersson                        email:  loa@pi.nu
> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
>
> Senior MPLS Expert  loa.pi.nu@gmail.com <mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>
>
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>
> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
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> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others
> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.
--
Loa Andersson                        email:  loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                           loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.
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Hi Shraddha,
thank you for helping me with detailed clarifications. (Apologies for using plain text mode but we've noticed a problem our mailer exposes in the mailarchive). Please find my follow-up notes in-lined under GIM>> tag.

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: ShraddhaHegde
To: gregory mirsky10211915;
CC: mpls@ietf.org;i-d-announce@ietf.org ;mach.chen@huawei.com;adrian@olddog.co.uk;huubatwork@gmail.com;
Date: 2021/06/14 22:25
Subject: RE: Re:[mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}" _ue_custom_node_="true">
Hi Greg,
Thank you for the follow-up.
Pls see inline for replies.
-----Original Message-----
From: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 5:50 AM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org;  i-d-announce@ietf.org; mach.chen@huawei.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk;  huubatwork@gmail.com
Subject: Re:[mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
[External Email. Be cautious of content]
Hi Shraddha and Authors,
thank you for updating the draft. I've reviewed the new version and couldn't find most of my comments addressed. Could you kindly help by pointing to the specific changes in the draft that, in your opinion, address my comments @  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/wmd0wbToaCEtDhgd2gFcX2HzG90/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Rw6JdmD9WO__g0GzLwDiRtgamBQBekpwXb-QKJzwwfZB14cHNoFoYk7utpZBQaKX$  ?
<Shraddha>
Comment: I couldn't find a sufficient technical explanation for introducing a new mechanism for the inter-domain ping/traceroute in addition to the one described
Addressed in section: 1 Introduction
Diff:
GIM>> I see that the new text again characterizes RFC 7743 as requiring that an ASBR passes an echo reply to the control plane. Firstly, taking a packet out of the fast path processing does not automatically mean that it is punted to the control plane (what is the control plane of a networking system?). Also, the new text suggests that the mechanism described in the draft "simplifies operations to a greater extent in SR networks". It is not clear how that is achieved. Is that the result of transporting an echo reply over the MPLS data plane rather than, as defined in RFC 7743, IP network? If that is what you see as the advantage, could you please expand on why and in which case transporting the echo reply through MPLS simplifies operations in a multi-domain SR network?
Comment: Three types of SID sub-TLVs are defined, but only use of one is mentioned in the document.
Addressed in section: 8
Diff:
Comment: I couldn't find an explanation of the relationship between IPv4/IPv6 Node Address and SID in Type 3 and Type 4 sub-TLVs, respectively
            Also, in which scenario the SID field in Type 3 and Type 4 sub-TLVs is recommended?
Addressed in section: I would recommend reading  sections 6, 7 and 8 to get the complete description of how
Type 3 and type 4 can be used.
Diff:
GIM>> The new text suggests that a local policy controls whether an ASBR cooperates with the described traceroute mode. I can assume that the policy would, for security reasons, prevent ASBR from participating. I couldn't find an explanation in the draft of what happens in that case.
Comment: And further, traceroute mode is called out of the scope of RFC 7743. I've read the explanation of traceroute in the draft, and I don't think it is a work
Addressed in section: section 7.2
Diff:
As I've noted, I am not sure what is referred to as "the control plane" in the draft in describing the solution defined in RFC 7743. RFC 7743 itself does not, as I understand it, require that an Echo Reply is sent to the control plane  at any step.
<shraddha> RFC 7743 describes how to relay the echo-reply in section 4.4.
The relaying node receives the echo-reply packet with destination set to relay node. Then the relaying node need
To examine the "Relay Node Address stack TLV" to find the next relay node or the initiator and send either relayed- Echo-reply or a normal echo-reply based on whether there are further relay nodes to be visited.
My understanding is that this complex operation of finding the next relay node from the packet and replacing
That into the destination address of the packet would require packet to be sent to control plane and cannot be done in forwarding plane.
GIM>> I think that when some processing is done outside of the fast path that is not necessarily means that that function must be completed in the control plane (which is still not clear what the "control plane" means in the context of this draft). I can imagine that that extra processing is done as bump-in-a-wire as the rate of echo replies is controlled.

 Also relay node receives the packet with destination address set to the relay node. The normal behaviour  of a router for self addressed packets is to send the packet to control plane, the draft does not talk about
GIM>> Though that might be the case, implementations are using special cases to optimize some scenarios.

Any forwarding plane behaviour change with respect to self destined packets.
If you have an implementation that does that, perhaps we can look at whether that is indeed the property of the solution or is implementation-specific.
<shraddha> I would like to understand if you have an implementation where the  relayed echo-reply processing on the relay node is done in forwarding plane. The RFC does not specify explicitly that  relay node processing is to  be done in forwarding plane also does not
Provide enough details that would be needed to process the "relay node address stack TLV"  in forwarding plane.
Also, I'm still concern with the specification for traceroute mode in the draft. I have a couple of additional notes to add:
- RFC 7110, as well as RFC 7743 (I've pointed that out in my first comments), has traceroute outside the scope;
<Shraddha> This draft has addressed traceroute and provided enough details on how traceroute procedure
Works. Let me know if you have specific questions on traceroute procedure.
GIM>> As I've noted earlier, it is not clear how ASBR responds if the local policy prohibits it from participating in the described traceroute mode.

Do you have a concern with this draft addressing traceroute? As long as this draft provides a workable
Solution it should not matter whether previous RFCs in the area addressed traceroute or not!
- RFC 8029 (Section 4.3) recommends using the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV. I couldn't find that TLV being mentioned in the draft. If you believe that TLV must not be used, could you list reasons for not using the Downstream Detailed  Mapping TLV?
<Shraddha> Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV is very much used.
Section 6.2 specifies no changes to RFC 8029/RFC 8287 procedures.
The change is only in processing additional reply path TLV when it comes in echo-request
And also in adding this Return path TLV while sending echo-reply.
" The responder MUST follow the normal FEC
validation procedures as described in [RFC8029] and [RFC8287] and
this document does not suggest any change to those procedures."
If  it is not clear enough, I can update the text as below
" The responder MUST follow the normal FEC
validation procedures and echo-reply building procedures as  described in [RFC8029] and [RFC8287] and
this document does not suggest any change to those procedures."
Let me know if that works for you.
GIM>> I think that the new text requires thorough analysis of how the Downstream Detailed Mapping TLV is handled by the remote domain. You would agree that exposing the inner topology to an external system poses a severe security risk.
Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部   Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: ShraddhaHegde
To:  mpls@ietf.org;i-d-announce@ietf.org ;Mach Chen;gregory mirsky10211915;adrian@olddog.co.uk;huubatwork@gmail.com;
Date: 2021/06/11 01:34
Subject: RE: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
Hi All,
New version of draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam is posted addressing comments from MPLS-RT review.
Pls take a look and let me know if you have further comments.
Rgds
Shraddha
Juniper Business Use Only
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls  On Behalf Of  internet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 2:00 PM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
[External Email. Be cautious of content]
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG of the IETF.
Title           : PMS/Head-end based MPLS Ping and Traceroute in Inter-domain SR Networks
Authors         : Shraddha Hegde
Kapil Arora
Mukul Srivastava
Samson Ninan
Nagendra Kumar
Filename        : draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03.txt
Pages           : 21
Date            : 2021-06-11
Abstract:
Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages source routing and tunneling paradigms and can be directly applied to the use of a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) data plane.  A network may consist of multiple IGP domains or multiple  ASes under the control of same organization.  It is useful to have the LSP Ping and traceroute procedures when an SR end-to-end path spans across multiple ASes or domains.  This document describes mechanisms to facilitae LSP ping and traceroute in inter-AS/inter-domain  SR networks in an efficient manner with simple OAM protocol extension which uses dataplane forwarding alone for sending echo reply.
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5TuJNnI5%7B0%7Dlt;br>
There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5VMFXpJm%7B0%7Dlt;br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ninan-mpls-spring-inter-domain-oam-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5QEnIeV0%7B0%7Dlt;br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WjDBRkDAvnDKCC6tb3iz7_nNl8kTHr2mV0bTh80i0AzKeABzFQV3dfGS5T0hqLuk%7B0%7Dlt;br>
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
Thread-Index: AQHXZremsXfIZcCGlEegrN7TXPgbtqseyI0AgADhWTA=
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 08:22:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi,

Please see inline [Bruno]

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; Alexander Vainsht=
ein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS

Hi,

I'm familiar with the references, comments inline.
[Bruno] I'm pretty sure you are. I'm only providing the reference as the so=
urce i.e. reference for anyone to check.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com> <bruno.de=
craene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:08 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>; Alexander=
 Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net<mai=
lto:zzhang@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

> As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when i=
t finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

I believe it does:

- if it does not understand ELI (i.e. does not support RFC 8662) it drops t=
he packet as per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http=
s:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0=
qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJXGCvWO0$>.



[JD]  This section does not define the behavior of a transit LSR that recei=
ves a reserved label at the top of the MPLS label stack.

[Bruno]

- this section does not say that reserved label are to be treated different=
ly

- RFC 8662 builds on it and nobody complained at the time

Now if you are saying that in the MPLS architecture the forwarding of unkno=
wn reserved label is not defined, I leave this to the WG. That would be a 2=
0 years old issue.




- if it understands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662), it processes the EL, ELI =
pair as defined in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.=
1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790*=
section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW1=
2eGRaQxzkmJKW3xpzU$> (The 2nd paragraph explicitly covers the case where th=
e top label is the ELI). (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top =
label that LSR is actually an LER with PHP enabled)

[JD]  This section defines the behavior of an egress LSR that receives an [=
ELI, EL] pair.  It does not define the behavior of a transit LSR that recei=
ves an [ELI, EL] at the top of the MPLS label stack.

[Bruno] My reading of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031#section=
-3.15 is that in your scenario (ELI on top while the node is not an LER) th=
e node is not forwarding along an LSP. As such I would not called it a tran=
sit LSR of an LSP.

In all cases, if PHP is enabled, the LSR does not know whether it was suppo=
sed to the LER of that LSP. All it sees is the ELI, EL and RFC 6790 tells i=
t to process the ELI, EL including when the ELI is on not.



But why are we having this conversation?




[JD] At the very least, RFC 8662 should have defined which transit LSR, the=
 LSR popping the SID above the [ELI, EL] pair or the LSR receiving it shoul=
d remove it and stipulating that once that behavior is defined, ensuring th=
at the subject transit router must understand entropy labels.

RFC 8662 does not change data plane processing of the Entropy Label on tran=
sit or egress LSR.

To answer your question, the ELI, EL is removed by the "LSR receiving" the =
[ELI, EL pair]. There is no changed compared to LDP (and in both cases, PHP=
 may be enabled or not; LSP may be stacked on not). BTW that node is an egr=
ess LSR, not a transit LSR.




My bigger point is that we are defining all sorts of nifty new functions wh=
ile ignoring incremental deployment.  If we edict that every LSR needs to u=
nderstand every nifty new function before those functions may be deployed, =
then we are ensuring that those nifty new functions will never be deployed.

[Bruno] Thanks for the clarification.

I'm fine with your bigger point and I support it.

I'm all for incremental deployment. I'm even in favor of incremental deploy=
ment with incremental benefit in order to get early incentive for deploying=
 the new feature.


Regards,
--Bruno


From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__=
;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY=
588$> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementat=
ion that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or =
worst be unpredictable".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due =
to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!=
!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH=
0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUl=
JSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHt=
M0KyFNp0$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

>  >> mpls mailing list

>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5=
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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

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>  > mpls mailing list

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>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAz=
jZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*252__;JSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wN=
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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

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> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
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___________________________________________________________________________=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"index 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Normal Indent"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"footnote text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"annotation text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"header"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"footer"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"35" SemiHidden=3D"true" Unhide=
WhenUsed=3D"true" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"caption"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"table of figures"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"envelope address"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"envelope return"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"footnote reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"annotation reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"macro"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"toa heading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"List Bullet"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"List Number 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"10" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"T=
itle"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Closing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideW=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Body Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"List Continue"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"List Continue 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Message Header"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"11" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Salutation"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Date"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Body Text First Indent"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Block Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Hyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"FollowedHyperlink"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"22" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"S=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"20" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"E=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Document Map"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"Plain Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"E-mail Signature"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"HTML Top of Form"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"HTML Acronym"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"HTML Cite"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
" Name=3D"HTML Code"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" Name=3D"Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"true=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Placeholder Te=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"1" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"No=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" SemiHidden=3D"true" Name=3D"Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"34" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"L=
ist Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"29" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"Q=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"30" QFormat=3D"true" Name=3D"I=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"68" Name=3D"Medium Grid 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" Name=3D"Medium Grid 3 Acce=
nt 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" Name=3D"Dark List Accent 1=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" Name=3D"Colorful Shading A=
ccent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" Name=3D"Colorful List Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" Name=3D"Light Shading Acce=
nt 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" Name=3D"Light List Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"62" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"63" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"64" Name=3D"Medium Shading 2 A=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" Name=3D"Medium List 1 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Acce=
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Acce=
nt 2"/>
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</head>
<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"tab-interval:=
35.4pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"SpellE"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-b=
idi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ple=
ase</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
<span class=3D"SpellE">see</span> <span class=3D"SpellE">inline</span> [Bru=
no]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-fa=
mily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET &lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;; Alex=
ander <span class=3D"SpellE">
Vainshtein</span> &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;=
loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; <span class=3D"SpellE">Haoyu</span> Song &lt;hson=
g@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [<span class=3D"SpellE">mpls</span>] Indicators in the =
stack and ancillary data after the
<span class=3D"SpellE">BoS</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">I&#8217;m familiar with the references, comments inline.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US">[Bruno] I&#8217;m pretty sure you are. I&#8217;m only providing
 the reference as the source i.e. reference for anyone to check. </span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;mso-ansi-language=
:EN-US">Juniper Business Use Only</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com<=
/a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 12:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@ju=
niper.net</a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vai=
nshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net">zzhang@junipe=
r.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=
 the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai=
l. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As an aside, =
RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds an [ELI=
, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it understands t=
he label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I believe it d=
oes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- if it does not understand ELI (i.e=
. does not support RFC 8662) it drops the packet </span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-la=
nguage:EN-US">as per </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031*section-3.18__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLMfPs0aI4=
D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVHurnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJXGCvWO0$"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</span></a><=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[JD]&nbsp; Th=
is section does not define the behavior of a transit LSR that receives a re=
served label at the top of the MPLS label stack. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Bruno] <=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">- this se=
ction does not say that reserved label are to be treated differently</span>=
<b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">- RFC 866=
2 builds on it and nobody complained at the time<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Now if yo=
u are saying that in the MPLS architecture the forwarding of unknown reserv=
ed label is not defined, I leave this to the WG. That would be a 20 years o=
ld issue.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- if it unders=
tands ELI (i.e. supports RFC 8662), it processes the EL, ELI pair as define=
d in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc6790*section-4.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!WZ0qLMfPs0aI4D8cgFh5CDyOKgPt3bJJohVH=
urnbcvOW12eGRaQxzkmJKW3xpzU$">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6790#section-4.1</a> (The 2<sup>nd=
</sup> paragraph explicitly covers the case where the top label is the ELI)=
. (Note that in this case, since the ELI is the top label that LSR is actua=
lly an LER with PHP enabled)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">[JD]&nbsp; This section defines the behavior of an egress LSR that=
 receives an [ELI, EL] pair.&nbsp; It does not define the behavior of a tra=
nsit LSR that receives an [ELI, EL] at the top of
 the MPLS label stack.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Bruno] M=
y reading of <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031#secti=
on-3.15">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3031#section-3.15</a> is =
that in your scenario (ELI on top while the node is not an LER) the node is=
 not forwarding along an LSP. As such I would not called it a transit LSR o=
f an LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In all ca=
ses, if PHP is enabled, the LSR does not know whether it was supposed to th=
e LER of that LSP. All it sees is the ELI, EL and RFC 6790 tells it to proc=
ess the ELI, EL including when the ELI is on not.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">But why a=
re we having this conversation?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">[JD]&nbsp;At the very least, RFC 8662 should have defined which tr=
ansit LSR, the LSR popping the SID above the [ELI, EL] pair or the LSR rece=
iving it should remove it and stipulating that
 once that behavior is defined, ensuring that the subject transit router mu=
st understand entropy labels.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">RFC 8662 =
does not change data plane processing of the Entropy Label on transit or eg=
ress LSR.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">To answer=
 your question, the ELI, EL is removed by the &#8220;LSR receiving&#8221; t=
he [ELI, EL pair]. There is no changed compared to LDP (and in both cases, =
PHP may be enabled or not; LSP may be stacked on not). BTW that node is an =
egress LSR, not a transit LSR.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bid=
i-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">My bigger point is that we are defining all sorts of nifty new fun=
ctions while ignoring incremental deployment.&nbsp; If we edict that every =
LSR needs to understand every nifty new function
 before those functions may be deployed, then we are ensuring that those ni=
fty new functions will never be deployed. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i=
></b></p>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">[Bruno] T=
hanks for the clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I&#8217;m=
 fine with your bigger point and I support it.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I&#8217;m=
 all for incremental deployment. I&#8217;m even in favor of incremental dep=
loyment with incremental benefit in order to get early incentive for deploy=
ing the new feature.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Regards,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><b>From:</b> mpls [<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is proposing what I was p=
roposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when =
it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when =
it understands the label pair or when
 it doesn't.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black;mso-ansi-language=
:EN-US">Juniper Business Use Only</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Loa,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include adding a copy of the=
 GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth f=
or any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but =
not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know=
 how to handle it since such handling
 has not ever been defined &#8211; not in <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5586__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftb=
s7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee t=
hat packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs tha=
t know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH t=
hat immediately follows the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fare=
ast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Define=
 new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures that c=
an be used for this purpose (as
 you have said, &#8220;we can carry everything in the associated channel&#8=
221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necessary &#8211; it will be up to th=
e specific applications to process such structures in ACH, but at least thi=
s would not affect MPLS forwarding).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso=
-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A=
llow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize new =
ACH types to meddle with the information
 carried in the ACH while forwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p><=
/o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman=
&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that r=
ecognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the
 ACH (similar to what has been done in <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8169__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7r=
zJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific se=
t of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not =
require any new forwarding functionality
 in existing LERs - <i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wik=
ipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZk=
s_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0$">primum non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-549266302<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not tamper with ACH any=
more&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering =
also with
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to =
make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immediately after the lab=
el stack is
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data =
may be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a=
 GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new informati=
on in
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of R=
FC
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 8169
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.syma=
ntec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*=
2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8169*23section-3__;JSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnftbs7rzJ6=
JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0$"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://clicktime.symant=
ec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2F=
doc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated c=
hannel. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">/Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-549266302<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander
 Vainshtein <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancil=
lary
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because =
it's designed
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the ne=
w use
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible to defend.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appears immediately after =
the bottom
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for th=
e ACH
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mpls-bou=
nces@ietf.org
 &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%=
3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;te=
xt-underline:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;;
 Alexander <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cm=
ailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com
 &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stac=
k and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indic=
ators in the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of this email thread were =
talking about
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary =
data
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/gene=
ric
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-outline-level:1"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu
 &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang@juniper.net
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cm=
ailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com
 &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stac=
k and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to ad=
dress the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the=
 GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data t=
hat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&quot;. So far I have =
seen no real
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; effort to address the interference's this might lead to.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a Bo=
S:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&=
#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43=
;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a tr=
ansit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) aft=
er that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label&#43;TOS&#43;S&#43;TTL? If that 4-octet fiel=
d has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stack ends there even th=
ough that's just<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will =
not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not hav=
e the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be fou=
nd
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT=
 address
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary =
data
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons =
first, and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org
 &lt;mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:*
<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none;text-underline:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;tex=
t-underline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in th=
e stack and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your statement that &quot;an o=
ld implementation that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw=
 an exception or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quot;it is OK to have m=
ultiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that al=
l LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL a=
t ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly&quot;:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree with this statement =
as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to=
 make this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restriction work in=
cluding at least:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The defini=
tion of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Advertisem=
ent of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Ability to=
 set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for different
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, after all this work, w=
e shall find out<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but no=
t BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks where all the nodes sup=
port the new<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presence of non-supporting =
nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilien=
ce.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: &#43;972-39266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;972-5492=
66302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email:
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.co=
m<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stewart.bryant@gmail.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span><=
/a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:mpls@iet=
f.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:m=
pls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-und=
erline:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in th=
e stack and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 17 Jun 2021, at =
07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Alexander.Vains=
htein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;mailto:Alexande=
r.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While that might be=
 the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; try and investigate=
 how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; not the BoS label.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; */[[Sasha]] Great m=
inds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; collecting the know=
n actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this case, say, by =
running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think?/*<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerable amount of work th=
at will take a while.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old implementation that re=
ceived a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst =
be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processing model is to take =
the context of
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW&#43;FAT label, discover the GAL an=
d then process the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW label.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again ha=
d the model that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that=
 preceded it for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new beh=
aviour.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semant=
ic all is good.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the ne=
w semantic then<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred either in setting up the=
 LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredi=
ctable, but in
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation should just result in=
 the packet being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed =
packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is OK to have multiple G=
ALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all L=
SRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL a=
t ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correctly.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be ins=
pected or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, a=
nd to attempt to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violation of the normal MPL=
S processing model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments=
 may contain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its=
 Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use =
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or di=
stribution by
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without express permission is stric=
tly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please notify=
 the sender<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">h=
ttps://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=
=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253=
A%252<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flisti=
nfo%2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbe=
BMMj2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.=
com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA=
iLCJQ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;amp;sdata=
=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;res=
erved=3D0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert
<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text=
-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a> &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-d=
ecoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: &#43;46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">m=
pls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D=
"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:mpls@iet=
f.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec=
.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*252__;JSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QiStnft=
bs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">h=
ttps://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</sp=
an></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=
=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A=
%252F%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%2=
57C01%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327=
%257C0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C6375953893378813=
84%257<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ=
BTiI6I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyP=
MiCF2K<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; email:
<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert
<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text=
-decoration:none;text-underline:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a> &lt;<a=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">_____=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Ce me=
ssage et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentiell=
es ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">pas e=
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pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p>=
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<pre style=3D"tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6=
pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"=
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><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank=
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<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Haoyu,

Thanks for replying.
Please see inline [Bruno]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:44 PM
> To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; Loa
> Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>;
> Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the =
BoS
>=20
> Hi Bruno,
>=20
> Thanks for the clarification. We might have some issues using the forced =
binding
> in some cases.
[Bruno] I'm not familiar with this 'forced binding' term.

>  For example, in our EH architecture, we allow an EH to be inserted
> or removed at any nodes on an LSP.

[Bruno] As the thread is about EH _indicator_ I'll focus on the indicator. =
Draft [1] does not forbid the indicator to be modified en route.
[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-=
entropy-label-id-01#section-2=20

> Also, ELI+EI are two labels, which is more
> expensive than one SPL solution.

[Bruno]
It would be more expensive only in the case that EL is not needed/useful AN=
D that one SPL be allocated for signaling the EH.
In all other cases, it's less expensive.=20


> Having said this, I could list your proposal as a
> possible solution.
=20
[Bruno] OK. I believe it should, as per the abstract of draft-song-mpls-eh-=
indicator


> BTW, Kireeti and I have discussed a possible option working in a differen=
t way.
> We would use a new SPL to indicate multiples things (also by encoding the=
 unused
> TTL/CoS bits): the existence of other special labels in the label stack (=
e.g., ELI+EL)
> and the existence/location of extension headers after the label stack. Si=
nce we
> have a new SPL, we have more freedom to define its behavior.

[Bruno] Sure it also works. Different tradeoffs.

Best regards,
--Bruno=20

>=20
> Best,
> Haoyu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=
>;
> draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the =
BoS
>=20
> Hi Haoyu,
>=20
> > From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> >
> > Hi Bruno,
> >
> > For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in the=
 packet?
>=20
> Yes. (Both ELI and EL.)
>=20
> > What if it doesn't have such a label?
>=20
> The node requiring the indicator adds the Entropy Label (ELI, EL). I gues=
s same
> principle as the other options discussed in the Figure 5 of draft-song-mp=
ls-eh-
> indicator.
> In which case you get Entropy information for free (I mean no extra label=
). But from
> the entropy standpoint, it would be better to have the EL, ELI pushed by =
the
> ingress as this is the node which should have the most entropy informatio=
n.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --Bruno
>=20
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Haoyu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
> > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> > <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
> > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after
> > the BoS
> >
> > [+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]
> >
> > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> > >
> > > Jeffrey,
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > > Hi Loa,
> > > >
> > > >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the
> > > >> stack and multiple
> > > sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> > > >
> > > > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about
> > > > multiple indicators
> > > in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS,
> > > either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension
> > > headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it.
> > > This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> > >
> > > hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in
> > > several drafts
> > >
> > >   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH indicator
> > >
> > >   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a
> > > special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
> > >
> > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in
> > > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > >
> > >   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL
> > > higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun
> > > readable depth might reach the GAL
> > >
> > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL in
> > > the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > >
> > >   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential indicators,
> > > that is also telling if the EH should be processed on every EH
> > > capable node or "just" at ingress and egress
> >
> > The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata
> > tracker
> > .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-labe
> > l-
> > id%23section-
> >
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b6895f808
> >
> d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217
> >
> 6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> >
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK
> > 0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIlgbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> >
> > It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.
> >
> > Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
> > -  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is already
> > used for load balancing
> > -  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose
> > MPLS Label
> > value)
> > - allows location freedom
> > - does not need control plane extension
> >
> > Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table 5
> > in order to include the above draft?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Regards,
> > --Bruno
> >
> > >
> > > The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
> > >
> > > I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
> > >
> > > - first what we want to have
> > > - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
> > >    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Jeffrey
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander
> > > > Vainshtein
> > > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > > ancillary data after
> > > the BoS
> > > >
> > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DT,
> > > >
> > > > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the
> > > > entire discussion.
> > > >
> > > > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH
> > > > pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the
> > > > data that they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have
> > > > seen no real effort to address the interference's this might lead t=
o.
> > > >
> > > > Further inline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                              ACH                           =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                     =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                                                            =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                  =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                                                            =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                                                            =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                       =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                                                            =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> > > >>
> > > >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
> > > >> any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL
> > > >> as a
> > > >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the
> > > >> label+TOS+S+transit
> > > >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just
> > > >> part of the ACH.
> > > >>
> > > >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH
> > > >> following it?
> > > >
> > > > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit
> > > > set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found
> > > > deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.
> > > >
> > > > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address
> > > > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary
> > > > data after the
> > BoS.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and
> > > > start working on solutions after that.
> > > >
> > > > /Loa
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey
> > > >>
> > > >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> > > >> Vainshtein
> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> > > >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > >>
> > > >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> > > >>
> > > >> Stewart,
> > > >>
> > > >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation
> > > >> that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an
> > > >> exception or worst be unpredictable".
> > > >>
> > > >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
> > > >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on
> > > >> the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS
> > > >> were known to be able to process it correctly":
> > > >>
> > > >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> > > >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> > > >>      restriction work including at least:
> > > >>
> > > >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but no=
t at
> > > >>          BoS must be provided
> > > >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correc=
tly in
> > > >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> > > >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross node=
s that
> > > >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different tech=
niques
> > > >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out
> > > >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
> > > >> only available in the networks where all the nodes support the
> > > >> new functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes
> > > >> imposes too many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Sasha
> > > >>
> > > >> Office: +972-39266302
> > > >>
> > > >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> > > >>
> > > >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> > > >>
> > > >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> > > >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> > > >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
> > > >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org
> > > >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > >>
> > > >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> > > >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may gi=
ve it a
> > > >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL =
being
> > > >>      not the BoS label.
> > > >>
> > > >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> > > >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementatio=
ns in
> > > >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what =
do you
> > > >>      think?/*
> > > >>
> > > >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a wh=
ile.
> > > >>
> > > >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL
> > > >> not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredicta=
ble.
> > > >>
> > > >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of
> > > >> the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process
> > > >> the GAL in the context of the PW label.
> > > >>
> > > >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that
> > > >> the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it
> > > >> for context. It was still BoS.
> > > >>
> > > >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> > > >>
> > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> > > >>
> > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then
> > > >>
> > > >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwa=
rding.
> > > >>
> > > >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in
> > > >> any well written implementation should just result in the packet
> > > >> being dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.
> > > >>
> > > >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
> > > >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
> > > >> LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were
> > > >> known to be able to process it correctly.
> > > >>
> > > >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or
> > > >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to
> > > >> attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS
> > > >> processing
> > model.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Stewart
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
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> > > >> please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, i=
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> mpls mailing list
> > > >> mpls@ietf.org
> > > >>
> > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fur
> > > ld
> > >
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > 2F
> > >
> >
> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yM&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d72
> > 2072
> > >
> >
> 7794b6895f808d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%
> > 7C6
> > >
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> 37598622176314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
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> > >
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> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > > >
> > > > Juniper Business Use Only
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > >
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From nobody Tue Jun 22 03:16:22 2021
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Reviewer: Matthew Bocci
Review result: Has Nits

I have been selected as the RTG DIR reviewer for
draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint.

Thanks for the draft. This is clear and well written. I have just a couple of
minor editorial nits, below, that should be fixed prior to publication.

Regards
Matthew

Abstract:
s/Segment SUb-TLV/Segment Sub-TLV

1. Introduction
s/"Protocol in the Segment IS Sub-TLV"/"Protocol in the Segment ID Sub-TLV"




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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: "gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com" <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
CC: "loa@pi.nu" <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "hsong@futurewei.com" <hsong@futurewei.com>, "zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re:[mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/00V9B4tN_TLL4hLgFmrbrmmkNto>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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John,
Lots of thanks for your comment.

A few points:

1.       I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside claim =
that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds =
an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it under=
stands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I h=
ave demonstrated that this behavior is defined

2.       My reading of your comment to my response "If that's the behavior=
 that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable" is that:

a.       You agree that some behavior has been defined in RFC 8662

b.       You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable=


3.       I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:

a.       My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be=
 only inserted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has s=
ignaled its capability to handle such a pair

b.       While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling abili=
ty to handle {ELI, EL} pair at the top of the stack, it provides Informati=
onal references to a couple of drafts that define such signaling in IS-IS =
and OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publication as R=
FCs

c.       With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can=
 be inserted in the label stack in the following positions:

                                                               i.      Imm=
ediately following an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with PHP) b=
y a node that has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}

                                                             ii.      Imme=
diately following an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency betwee=
n the advertising node and the node that signaled its capability to suppor=
t {ELI, EL}

d.       Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of =
SIDs, the rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load bal=
ancing, or not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the si=
tuation with=20"vanilla" RFC 6790 if, e.g., some of the PEs where a given =
L3VPN service is represented, have advertised their ability to handle {ELI=
, EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not advertise such capability.
My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander=
.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Ande=
rsson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3P=
DwoeDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3=
A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc6790%2Asection-4.3__%3BIw%21%21=
NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYF=
FvI%24> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUwj=
a7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatrac=
ker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc6790%2Asection-4.1__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%=
21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI%24> and =
5<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2=
Frfc6790%2Asection-5__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe=
7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY%24>, an egress LSR that signals both =
ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKF=
msEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc3031%2Asection-3.18__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMa=
O-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs%24>=
.



[JD]  If that's the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable=
.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs=
 for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (exp=
licitly or implicitly), including:

  1.  All Adj-SIDs
  2.  All EPE SIDs
  3.  IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared i=
n IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)
  4.  BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the BG=
P-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved =
in PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing=
 several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it=
 finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf=
 Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR=
?"  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not B=
oS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how=
 to handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5=
586<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4qVDAVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3LpX2kp8=
4U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__h=
ttps%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc5586__%2A3B%2A2=
1%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0v=
SHtMt9fY588%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJF=
XxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA%24> and not anywhere el=
se. Stewart has responded that "an old implementation that received a ToS =
GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable"=
.  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would=20guarantee that=
 packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that =
know how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that imme=
diately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the stru=
ctures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry =
everything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if nec=
essary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such struct=
ures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogn=
ize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while =
forwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to=
 meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been =
done in RFC 8169<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3UtLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?=
u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.co=
m%2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A=
2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc816=
9__%2A3B%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phn=
YEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21U=
k8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz6RrTE%24>) even i=
f they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.=




I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of =
applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requ=
ire any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/3QMnW2BUztofokYXW2fRkBn6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3GdXcZMxHHLv=
CC23kWNFkFG6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https=
%2A3A%2A2Fen.wikipedia.org%2A2Fwiki%2A2FPrimum_non_nocere__%2A3B%2A21%2A21=
NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1=
UZKH0%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweT=
WC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg%24>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart =
Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make =
sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=
2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://click=
time.symantec.com/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.=
com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H=
2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fcli=
cktime.symantec.com%2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%=
2A2A2F%2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc8169%2A2A2=
3section-3__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV=
6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-4=
6um02ro1mHvEw3iqk%24>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.=




Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channe=
l. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffre=
y (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dma=
rc.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; S=
tewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3c=
mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >>=20but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%=
3cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>=20 >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mai=
lto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf=20Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbb=
n.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:gre=
gory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%=
3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a whil=
e.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forward=
ing.

>

> =20>>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.=


>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

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>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

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https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LbDZkybzjLKby6DAk88iUh6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3G18FNxso3yy=
sVeGE2oYas86H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https=
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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>=20 > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi=
.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <m=
ailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

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>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

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<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3RHS3C2UW8kquG4WDQJFwvp6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3R52RdsrwRG=
TaBhuR2Sd5Qw6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__http=
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02ro1mH2RXrzIw%24>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mail=
to:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa=
.pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lots of thanks for yo=
ur comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">A few points:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 lev=
el1 lfo7"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside cla=
im that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should d=
o when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top
 of the MPLS label stack, either when it understands the label pair or whe=
n it doesn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I see it, both Bruno=
 and I have demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 lev=
el1 lfo7"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">My reading of your comment to my response &#8220;</span><b><i>=
If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable=
</i></b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221; is that:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">You agree that
<b><i>some</i></b> behavior has been defined in RFC 8662<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deploya=
ble<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 lev=
el1 lfo7"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can=
 be only inserted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack ha=
s signaled its capability to handle such
 a pair<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling ab=
ility to handle {ELI, EL} pair at=20the top of the stack, it provides Info=
rmational references to a couple of drafts
 that define such signaling in IS-IS and OSPF, and these drafts have been =
already approved for publication as RFCs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">c.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs =
can be inserted in the label stack in the following positions:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-10=
8.0pt;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l2 level3 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>i.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Immediately following an IGP Prefix SID t=
hat has been advertised (with PHP) by a node that has signaled its capabil=
ity
 to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-10=
8.0pt;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l2 level3 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>ii.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></s=
pan><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Immediately following an Adjacency SID t=
hat represents an IGP adjacency between the advertising node and the node =
that
 signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">d.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack =
of SIDs, the rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load =
balancing, or not. But IMHO and FWIW this
 is not really different from the situation with &#8220;vanilla&#8221; RFC=
 6790 if, e.g., some of the PEs where a given L3VPN service is represented=
, have advertised their ability to handle {ELI, EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, an=
d some did not advertise such capability. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt=
; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Anderss=
on &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@j=
uniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds th=
ink alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside =
comment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a h=
ref=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3PDwoeDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fh=
tml%2Frfc6790%2Asection-4.3__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweT=
WC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI%24">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a hre=
f=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUwja7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtm=
l%2Frfc6790%2Asection-4.1__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC=
-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI%24">4.1</a> and <a href=3D"https=
://clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furl=
defense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc679=
0%2Asection-5__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIz=
cOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY%24">5</a>, <span style=3D"background:yellow;=
mso-highlight:yellow">an egress LSR that signals both ELC<o:p></o:p></span=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &=
nbsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which sh=
ould<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmo=
st<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such =
packets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://click=
time.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.=
com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc3031%2Asect=
ion-3.18__%3BIw%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6y=
LGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs%24">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</a>.<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RF=
C 8662 is not deployable.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is=
 to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the origin=
ating routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or =
implicitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">Al=
l Adj-SIDs <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3">All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertis=
ed with PHP (P-flag cleared in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p><=
/li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3=
">BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&nbsp; the B=
GP-LU route.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I=
 have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdr=
ake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the=20BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is p=
roposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transi=
t LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS lab=
el stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounce=
s@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include=
 adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is w=
ithin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL i=
s exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwa=
rder, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever b=
een defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4qVDAVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3=
LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%=
2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc5586__%2=
A3B%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6l=
EzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6m=
R2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA%24">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an o=
ld implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these optio=
ns sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique t=
hat would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only =
pass thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the followin=
g IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Retain the exist=
ing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the Bo=
S<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6"=
>Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structure=
s that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry=
 everything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,=

 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to proces=
s such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwardi=
ng).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l4 level1 lf=
o6">Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogniz=
e new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Also allow usage of TTL to help L=
ERs that recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in=
 the ACH (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3UtLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?u=3Dht=
tps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F38=
9RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2=
A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc8169__%2A=
3B%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR=
2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz6RrTE%24">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the=
 depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enoug=
h for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably s=
afe since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing=
 LERs -
<i><a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3QMnW2BUztofokYXW2fRkBn6H2?u=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F=
3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3=
%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fen.wikipedia.org%2A2Fwiki%2A2FPrimum_non_nocere__%2A=
3B%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lE=
zzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2=
CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg%24">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-5492663=
02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br=
>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to no=
t tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implic=
ation) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL highe=
r up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LS=
R?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot imme=
diately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no =
other ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, =
given that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any =
kind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been d=
one in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.c=
om/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__ht=
tps%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2=
A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec=
.com%2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Fda=
tatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc8169%2A2A23section-3__%2A=
3BJSUlJSUlJQ%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe=
5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21N=
Et6yMaO-gk%21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3i=
qk%24"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://click=
time.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker=
.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everythin=
g in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, ri=
ght?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54=
9266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexan=
der.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
oa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@=
futurewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong=
@futurewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.ne=
t@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zz=
hang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@=
gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators i=
n the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with=
 ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a s=
pecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are ha=
rd to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible=
 to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appea=
rs immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label sta=
ck is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data =
maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there =
is a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpl=
s-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:=
02 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Al=
exander
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT a=
ddress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data a=
fter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of th=
is email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multi=
ple set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or t=
he proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propo=
sals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfter=
BOS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10=
:46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;=
zzhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><=
span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper=
.net</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the=20BoS<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of =
content]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but=
 it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues t=
o sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indi=
cators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&=
quot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this m=
ight lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could =
put a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh =
Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-b=
it set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in =
the above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-o=
ctet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label sta=
ck ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL=
 not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a G=
AL which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. Th=
e BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediat=
ely fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I=
'd like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multip=
le sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the=
 relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls=
@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf=
.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautiou=
s of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your stat=
ement that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &qu=
ot;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of th=
e LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree=
 with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have t=
o be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at=20ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for diffe=
rent
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, a=
fter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of support=
ing GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks wh=
ere all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presen=
ce of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connect=
ivity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;st=
ewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &=
lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zt=
etx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considera=
ble amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old i=
mplementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed process=
ing model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, di=
scover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW lab=
el.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to appl=
y to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context =
of the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up t=
he stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eit=
her in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the rece=
iving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation =
should just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with =
any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is =
OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the L=
SP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at =
ToS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know=
 what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violat=
ion of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together=
 with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Commun=
ications Inc. and its Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or propriet=
ary for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, discl=
osure, reliance or distribution by
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without expres=
s permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended rec=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete =
all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper=20Business Use Only<=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ____________________________=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p>=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
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span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sy=
mantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p><=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPx=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></p>
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org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3=
F6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa=
@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +4=
6 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; ________________________________=
_______________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"=
><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span=
></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sy=
mantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7if=
LCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%2=
52Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi=
.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21=
 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attac=
hments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. a=
nd its Affiliates that is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sol=
e use of the intended
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance=
 or distribution by others
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; or forwarding without express permission is=
 strictly prohibited. If
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please =
notify the sender
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, inc=
luding any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu=
@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. I=
f you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately=
 and then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. I=
f you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately=
 and then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"both">
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.<BR>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/Woe69g3Cqv9jkgy6URNrWQVcqFI>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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--_000_BY3PR05MB808131C5A8BD9A38CBEBF255C7099BY3PR05MB8081namp_
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Hi,

Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
Lots of thanks for your comment.

A few points:

1.        I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside claim =
that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds a=
n [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it underst=
ands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I have=
 demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of =
the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6=
790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an [EL=
I, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain an=
d it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pair=
s in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS label st=
ack when received by a transit LSR with this capability.".


  1.  My reading of your comment to my response "If that's the behavior tha=
t we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable" is that:

     *   You agree that some behavior has been defined in RFC 8662

[JD]  Your email, to which I responded, referenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 an=
d I was commenting on this sentence:  "Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) M=
UST drop such packets.".  I.e., it is referring to non-egress, or transit, =
LSRs.


     *   You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable

[JD]  See my previous comment.


  1.  I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:

     *   My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be =
only inserted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has sig=
naled its capability to handle such a pair

[JD]   RFC 6970 only talks about egress LSRs advertising this capability.


b.      While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling ability=
 to handle {ELI, EL} pair at the top of the stack, it provides Informationa=
l references to a couple of drafts that define such signaling in IS-IS and =
OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publication as RFCs

[JD]  See my first comment above.


     *   With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can =
be inserted in the label stack in the following positions:

                                                       i.     Immediately f=
ollowing an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with PHP) by a node th=
at has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}

[JD]  See my first comment above.  I am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn't wo=
rk.  Rather, like RFC 5886 it is under-specified.


                                                      ii.     Immediately f=
ollowing an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency between the adve=
rtising node and the node that signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}

     *   Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of S=
IDs, the rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load balan=
cing, or not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the situa=
tion with "vanilla" RFC 6790 if, e.g., some of the PEs where a given L3VPN =
service is represented, have advertised their ability to handle {ELI, EL} v=
ia LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not advertise such capability.
My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:=
/clicktime.symantec.com/3PDwoeDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldef=
ense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2A=
section-4.3__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP=
6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy=
-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8$> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.s=
ymantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUwja7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv=
3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.1_=
_*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um=
02ro1mHfo9sMUI*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMG=
CocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0$> and 5<https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A=
*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*=
2Frfc6790*2Asection-5__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe=
7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-=
gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMISv8PZA$>, an eg=
ress LSR that signals both ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clickti=
me.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com=
*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc3031*2Asection-=
3.18__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs=
-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPM=
KiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuYwU$>.



[JD]  If that's the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs =
for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (expli=
citly or implicitly), including:

  1.  All Adj-SIDs
  2.  All EPE SIDs
  3.  IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared in=
 IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)
  4.  BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the BGP=
-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved i=
n PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4qVDAVUpzHHu=
fyXwucN6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.s=
ymantec.com*2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefen=
se.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2A2Fhtml*2A=
2Frfc5586__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-=
rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*21NEt6yMaO-=
gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA*24__;J=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCoc=
KS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA$> and not anywhere else. Stewart =
has responded that "an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable".  Neither of =
these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3U=
tLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*=
2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F=
*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdo=
c*2A2Fhtml*2A2Frfc8169__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxh=
V6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*2=
1*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHv=
z6RrTE*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-j=
TEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc$>) even if they cann=
ot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QMnW2BUztofokYXW2fR=
kBn6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.syman=
tec.com*2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.c=
om*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fen.wikipedia.org*2A2Fwiki*2A2FPrimum_non_noc=
ere__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5ph=
nYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk=
8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg*24__;JSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu=
_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3U=
R1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A=
2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2*2A=
3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A3A*2A2A2F*2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2A2Fdoc*2A2A2Fhtml=
*2A2A2Frfc8169*2A2A23section-3__*2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21Qi=
Stnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*2A24__*3BJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7o=
dXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76=
WXM8Mm5xSMMFVywrw$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

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>

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>

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>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LbDZkybzjLKby6DAk=
88iUh6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.sym=
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IzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHiE0sPVM*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
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g35ivIo$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  > _______________________________________________

>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3RHS3C2UW8kquG4WD=
QJFwvp6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.sy=
mantec.com*2F3R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR2Sd5Qw6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefens=
e.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F353Ka7ifLCb9e7=
KAzjZ4fsf6H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A3A*2A2A252__*2A3BJSU*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*=
2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMG_cybmA*2A24__*=
3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7od=
XjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mH2RXrzIw*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5x=
SMct3koic$>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express perm=
ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
e notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any a=
ttachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
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ission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas=
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Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vain=
shtein@rbbn.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Andersson=
 &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lots of thanks for you=
r comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">A few points:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:40.8pt;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do =
when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the
 MPLS label stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doe=
sn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I see it, both Bruno and I ha=
ve demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in=
 RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document upda=
tes the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR tha=
t understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires a=
 transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain and=
 it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pairs=
 in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with =
this capability.&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo1">
My reading of your comment to my response &#8220;<b><i><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext">If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is no=
t deployable</span></i></b>&#8221; is that:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
You agree that <b><i>some</i></b> behavior has been defined in RFC 8662<o:p=
></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Your email, to which I responded, r=
eferenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 and I was commenting on this sentence:&nbsp=
; &#8220;Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets.&#8221;.=
&nbsp; I.e., it is referring to non-egress, or transit, LSRs.
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable<o:p></o:p=
></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my previous comment.<o:p></o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo1">
I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be only inse=
rted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has signaled its=
 capability to handle such a pair<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 6970 only talks about egr=
ess LSRs advertising this capability.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:81.6pt;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">While RFC 8662 does n=
ot define any mechanisms for signaling ability to handle {ELI, EL} pair at =
the top of the stack, it provides Informational references to a couple of d=
rafts that define such signaling in
 IS-IS and OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publicatio=
n as RFCs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.<o:p></o=
:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can be insert=
ed in the label stack in the following positions:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in=
;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>i.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
Immediately following an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with PHP)=
 by a node that has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.&nbsp; I=
 am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn&#8217;t work.&nbsp; Rather, like RFC 588=
6 it is under-specified.
<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in=
;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span>ii.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Immediately following an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency be=
tween the advertising node and the node that signaled its capability
 to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"4" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of SIDs, the =
rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load balancing, or =
not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the situation with=
 &#8220;vanilla&#8221; RFC 6790 if, e.g., some
 of the PEs where a given L3VPN service is represented, have advertised the=
ir ability to handle {ELI, EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not adverti=
se such capability. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@ju=
niper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds thi=
nk alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside c=
omment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a hr=
ef=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3PDwoeDbzi3=
ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.3__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk=
*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI*24__;JSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIA=
gx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8$">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUw=
ja7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatrac=
ker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.1__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*2=
1Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI*24__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx=
76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0$">4.1</a> and <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__ht=
tps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fur=
ldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc679=
0*2Asection-5__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzc=
OP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4=
Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMISv8PZA$">5</a>, <span s=
tyle=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">an egress LSR that signals =
both ELC<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &n=
bsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which shou=
ld<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such pa=
ckets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3D=
https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc=
*2Fhtml*2Frfc3031*2Asection-3.18__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJ=
uweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ=
!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuY=
wU$">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC =
8662 is not deployable.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is =
to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the originat=
ing routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or imp=
licitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">All=
 Adj-SIDs <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2">All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:=
#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised =
with PHP (P-flag cleared in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p></li>=
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">BGP=
 Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&nbsp; the BGP-LU =
route.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I =
have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is pr=
oposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit=
 LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label=
 stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include =
adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is wit=
hin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is=
 exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forward=
er, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been=
 defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4q=
VDAVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fc=
licktime.symantec.com*2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A=
2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2=
A2Fhtml*2A2Frfc5586__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6L=
Zks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*2=
1NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd=
6vA*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEq=
PMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique th=
at would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pa=
ss thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the following=
 IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Retain the existi=
ng definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">De=
fine new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures th=
at can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry ever=
ything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,
 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to process=
 such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding=
).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"=
>Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize ne=
w ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while forward=
ing labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs tha=
t recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH=
 (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3UtLBG=
nixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fcl=
icktime.symantec.com*2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2=
Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2A=
2Fhtml*2A2Frfc8169__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZ=
ks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*21=
NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz6Rr=
TE*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqP=
MKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough=
 for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably saf=
e since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LE=
Rs -
<i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QM=
nW2BUztofokYXW2fRkBn6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*=
2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F=
*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fen.wikipedia.org*2A2Fwiki*2=
A2FPrimum_non_nocere__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6=
LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*2=
1NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9q=
HKg*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqP=
MKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0$">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not=
 tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implica=
tion) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no o=
ther ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, g=
iven that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any k=
ind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been do=
ne in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fu=
rldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5go=
uUDZ8i86H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A=
*2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*=
2A2A3A*2A2A2F*2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2A2Fdoc*2A2A2Fhtml*2A2A2Frfc8169=
*2A2A23section-3__*2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZ=
RtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVq=
s-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
Q!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMMFVy=
wrw$"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clickti=
me.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everything=
 in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, righ=
t?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549=
266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@f=
uturewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with =
ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a sp=
ecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are har=
d to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible =
to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appear=
s immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stac=
k is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data m=
aybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there i=
s a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:0=
2 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;tex=
t-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexa=
nder
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT ad=
dress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of thi=
s email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multip=
le set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or th=
e proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propos=
als should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterB=
OS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:=
46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;z=
zhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of c=
ontent]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but =
it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to=
 sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indic=
ators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&q=
uot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this mi=
ght lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could p=
ut a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH=
 TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Mes=
sage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bi=
t set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in t=
he above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-oc=
tet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stac=
k ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL =
not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GA=
L which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The=
 BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediate=
ly fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'=
d like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the =
relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious=
 of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your state=
ment that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS=
 would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quo=
t;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree =
with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to=
 be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for differe=
nt
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, af=
ter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporti=
ng GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks whe=
re all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presenc=
e of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connecti=
vity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alex=
ander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorati=
on:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerab=
le amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old im=
plementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an=
 exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processi=
ng model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, dis=
cover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply=
 to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context o=
f the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up th=
e stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eith=
er in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the recei=
ving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation s=
hould just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with a=
ny other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is O=
K to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LS=
P ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at T=
oS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violati=
on of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together =
with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Communi=
cations Inc. and its Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or proprieta=
ry for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without express=
 permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended reci=
pient, please notify the sender<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete a=
ll copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________________________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
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>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxd=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o=
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F=
6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi=
.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mai=
lto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 =
739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; _________________________________=
______________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
:/clicktime.symantec.com/3RHS3C2UW8kquG4WDQJFwvp6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furlde=
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PMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMct3koic$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifL=
Cb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2=
F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%25=
2Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a2=
4092e29708d931a0e327%257C0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%=
257C637595389337881384%257<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DX=
QlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%=
3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.=
nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 6=
4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attach=
ments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. an=
d its Affiliates that is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; confidential and/or proprietary for the sole=
 use of the intended
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance =
or distribution by others
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; or forwarding without express permission is =
strictly prohibited. If
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; you are not the intended recipient, please n=
otify the sender
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; immediately and then delete all copies, incl=
uding any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Senior MPLS Expert&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gm=
ail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=
 you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately a=
nd then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=
 you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately a=
nd then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
 proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
 others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If=
 you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately a=
nd then delete all copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/TS3cM7Ua5HOdZM9hms80APbAbDU>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Doh, RFC 5586 not RFC 5886

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of John E Drake
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 10:06 AM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hi,

Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
Lots of thanks for your comment.

A few points:

1.        I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside claim =
that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds a=
n [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it underst=
ands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I have=
 demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of =
the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6=
790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an [EL=
I, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain an=
d it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pair=
s in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS label st=
ack when received by a transit LSR with this capability.".


  1.  My reading of your comment to my response "If that's the behavior tha=
t we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable" is that:

     *   You agree that some behavior has been defined in RFC 8662

[JD]  Your email, to which I responded, referenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 an=
d I was commenting on this sentence:  "Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) M=
UST drop such packets.".  I.e., it is referring to non-egress, or transit, =
LSRs.


     *   You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable

[JD]  See my previous comment.


  1.  I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:

     *   My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be =
only inserted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has sig=
naled its capability to handle such a pair

[JD]   RFC 6970 only talks about egress LSRs advertising this capability.


b.      While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling ability=
 to handle {ELI, EL} pair at the top of the stack, it provides Informationa=
l references to a couple of drafts that define such signaling in IS-IS and =
OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publication as RFCs

[JD]  See my first comment above.


     *   With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can =
be inserted in the label stack in the following positions:

                                                          i.     Immediatel=
y following an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with PHP) by a node=
 that has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}

[JD]  See my first comment above.  I am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn't wo=
rk.  Rather, like RFC 5886 it is under-specified.


                                                        ii.     Immediately=
 following an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency between the ad=
vertising node and the node that signaled its capability to support {ELI, E=
L}

     *   Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of S=
IDs, the rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load balan=
cing, or not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the situa=
tion with "vanilla" RFC 6790 if, e.g., some of the PEs where a given L3VPN =
service is represented, have advertised their ability to handle {ELI, EL} v=
ia LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not advertise such capability.
My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:=
/clicktime.symantec.com/3PDwoeDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldef=
ense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2A=
section-4.3__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP=
6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy=
-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8$> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.s=
ymantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUwja7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv=
3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.1_=
_*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um=
02ro1mHfo9sMUI*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMG=
CocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0$> and 5<https://urldefense.com=
/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A=
*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*=
2Frfc6790*2Asection-5__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe=
7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-=
gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMISv8PZA$>, an eg=
ress LSR that signals both ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clickti=
me.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com=
*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc3031*2Asection-=
3.18__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs=
-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPM=
KiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuYwU$>.



[JD]  If that's the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs =
for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (expli=
citly or implicitly), including:

  1.  All Adj-SIDs
  2.  All EPE SIDs
  3.  IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared in=
 IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)
  4.  BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the BGP=
-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved i=
n PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing =
several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it =
finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it =
understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher =
up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?"=
  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not Bo=
S to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how t=
o handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5586=
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4qVDAVUpzHHu=
fyXwucN6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.s=
ymantec.com*2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefen=
se.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2A2Fhtml*2A=
2Frfc5586__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-=
rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*21NEt6yMaO-=
gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA*24__;J=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCoc=
KS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA$> and not anywhere else. Stewart =
has responded that "an old implementation that received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable".  Neither of =
these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that pa=
ckets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that know=
 how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immed=
iately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the struc=
tures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry ev=
erything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if necess=
ary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such structures=
 in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogni=
ze new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to =
meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been do=
ne in RFC 8169<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3U=
tLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*=
2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F=
*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdo=
c*2A2Fhtml*2A2Frfc8169__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxh=
V6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*2=
1*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHv=
z6RrTE*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-j=
TEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc$>) even if they cann=
ot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stack.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of a=
pplications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requir=
e any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QMnW2BUztofokYXW2fR=
kBn6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.syman=
tec.com*2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.c=
om*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fen.wikipedia.org*2A2Fwiki*2A2FPrimum_non_noc=
ere__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5ph=
nYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk=
8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg*24__;JSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu=
_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0$>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart Bry=
ant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make s=
ure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dh=
ttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3U=
R1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A=
2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2*2A=
3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A3A*2A2A2F*2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2A2Fdoc*2A2A2Fhtml=
*2A2A2Frfc8169*2A2A23section-3__*2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21Qi=
Stnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*2A24__*3BJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7o=
dXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76=
WXM8Mm5xSMMFVywrw$>> where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channel=
. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey=
 (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmar=
c.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; St=
ewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cm=
ailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3=
cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mail=
to:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn=
.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:greg=
ory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%3=
cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a while=
.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwardi=
ng.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

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>

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>

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> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<h=
ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LbDZkybzjLKby6DAk=
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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu=
>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

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>

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>

>  >

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QJFwvp6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.sy=
mantec.com*2F3R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR2Sd5Qw6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefens=
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KAzjZ4fsf6H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A3A*2A2A252__*2A3BJSU*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*=
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> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%

> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

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> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

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> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mailt=
o:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

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--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.=
pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:=
break-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Doh, RFC 5586 not RFC 5886<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;mpls-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 10:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@ju=
niper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lots of thanks for you=
r comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">A few points:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:40.8pt;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do =
when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the
 MPLS label stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doe=
sn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I see it, both Bruno and I ha=
ve demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in=
 RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document upda=
tes the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR tha=
t understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires a=
 transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain and=
 it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pairs=
 in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with =
this capability.&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo1">
My reading of your comment to my response &#8220;<b><i><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext">If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is no=
t deployable</span></i></b>&#8221; is that:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
You agree that <b><i>some</i></b> behavior has been defined in RFC 8662<o:p=
></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Your email, to which I responded, r=
eferenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 and I was commenting on this sentence:&nbsp=
; &#8220;Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets.&#8221;.=
&nbsp; I.e., it is referring to non-egress, or transit, LSRs.
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable<o:p></o:p=
></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my previous comment.<o:p></o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo1">
I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be only inse=
rted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has signaled its=
 capability to handle such a pair<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 6970 only talks about egr=
ess LSRs advertising this capability.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:81.6pt;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">While RFC 8662 does n=
ot define any mechanisms for signaling ability to handle {ELI, EL} pair at =
the top of the stack, it provides Informational references to a couple of d=
rafts that define such signaling in
 IS-IS and OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publicatio=
n as RFCs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.<o:p></o=
:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can be insert=
ed in the label stack in the following positions:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in=
;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>i.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
Immediately following an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with PHP)=
 by a node that has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.&nbsp; I=
 am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn&#8217;t work.&nbsp; Rather, like RFC 588=
6 it is under-specified.
<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-1.5in=
;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>ii.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Immediately following an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency be=
tween the advertising node and the node that signaled its capability
 to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"4" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level2 lfo1">
Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of SIDs, the =
rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load balancing, or =
not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the situation with=
 &#8220;vanilla&#8221; RFC 6790 if, e.g., some
 of the PEs where a given L3VPN service is represented, have advertised the=
ir ability to handle {ELI, EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not adverti=
se such capability. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@ju=
niper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds thi=
nk alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside c=
omment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a hr=
ef=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3PDwoeDbzi3=
ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.3__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk=
*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI*24__;JSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIA=
gx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8$">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3Q8XJjsAd3fUw=
ja7w7zBq576H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatrac=
ker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6790*2Asection-4.1__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*2=
1Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI*24__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx=
76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0$">4.1</a> and <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__ht=
tps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fur=
ldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc679=
0*2Asection-5__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzc=
OP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4=
Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMISv8PZA$">5</a>, <span s=
tyle=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">an egress LSR that signals =
both ELC<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &n=
bsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which shou=
ld<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&nb=
sp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such pa=
ckets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2?u=3D=
https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc=
*2Fhtml*2Frfc3031*2Asection-3.18__*3BIw*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJ=
uweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ=
!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuY=
wU$">Section&nbsp;3.18 of [RFC3031]</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC =
8662 is not deployable.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is =
to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the originat=
ing routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or imp=
licitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">All=
 Adj-SIDs <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2">All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:=
#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised =
with PHP (P-flag cleared in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p></li>=
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">BGP=
 Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&nbsp; the BGP-LU =
route.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I =
have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is pr=
oposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit=
 LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label=
 stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounces=
@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include =
adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is wit=
hin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL is=
 exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forward=
er, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever been=
 defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LFH4q=
VDAVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fc=
licktime.symantec.com*2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A=
2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2=
A2Fhtml*2A2Frfc5586__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6L=
Zks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*2=
1NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd=
6vA*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEq=
PMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA$">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an ol=
d implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an =
exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these options =
sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing into a technique th=
at would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pa=
ss thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the following=
 IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Retain the existi=
ng definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">De=
fine new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structures th=
at can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry ever=
ything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,
 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to process=
 such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding=
).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"=
>Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recognize ne=
w ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while forward=
ing labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs tha=
t recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH=
 (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3UtLBG=
nixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fcl=
icktime.symantec.com*2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2=
Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2Fdoc*2A=
2Fhtml*2A2Frfc8169__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZ=
ks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl*21*21=
NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz6Rr=
TE*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqP=
MKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc$">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the =
depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enough=
 for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably saf=
e since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing LE=
Rs -
<i><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QM=
nW2BUztofokYXW2fRkBn6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*=
2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F=
*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2Fen.wikipedia.org*2A2Fwiki*2=
A2FPrimum_non_nocere__*2A3B*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6=
LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*2=
1NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9q=
HKg*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqP=
MKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0$">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54926630=
2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">z=
zhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to not=
 tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implica=
tion) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot immed=
iately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no o=
ther ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, g=
iven that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any k=
ind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been do=
ne in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fu=
rldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5go=
uUDZ8i86H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A=
*2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*=
2A2A3A*2A2A2F*2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2A2A2Fdoc*2A2A2Fhtml*2A2A2Frfc8169=
*2A2A23section-3__*2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZ=
RtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJQ*21*21NEt6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVq=
s-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
Q!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMMFVy=
wrw$"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clickti=
me.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</span></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everything=
 in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, righ=
t?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549=
266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lo=
a@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</s=
pan></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@f=
uturewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong@f=
uturewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zzha=
ng=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in=
 the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with =
ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a sp=
ecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are har=
d to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible =
to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appear=
s immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label stac=
k is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data m=
aybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there i=
s a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:0=
2 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;tex=
t-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexa=
nder
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT ad=
dress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data af=
ter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of thi=
s email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multip=
le set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or th=
e proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propos=
als should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterB=
OS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:=
46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;z=
zhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper.n=
et</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bry=
ant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:wi=
ndowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] In=
dicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of c=
ontent]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but =
it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues to=
 sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indic=
ators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&q=
uot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this mi=
ght lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zha=
ohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could p=
ut a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH=
 TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh Mes=
sage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-bi=
t set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in t=
he above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-oc=
tet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label stac=
k ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a GAL =
not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a GA=
L which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. The=
 BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediate=
ly fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I'=
d like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multipl=
e sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the =
relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@=
ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.o=
rg</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautious=
 of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your state=
ment that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at BoS=
 would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &quo=
t;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of the=
 LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree =
with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have to=
 be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for differe=
nt
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, af=
ter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of supporti=
ng GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks whe=
re all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presenc=
e of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connecti=
vity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Alex=
ander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 20=
21 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &l=
t;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;stew=
art.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zte=
tx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.c=
om"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.mi=
rsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decorati=
on:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERN=
AL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@r=
bbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considerab=
le amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old im=
plementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw an=
 exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed processi=
ng model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, dis=
cover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to apply=
 to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context o=
f the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up th=
e stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that =
does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eith=
er in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the recei=
ving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation s=
hould just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with a=
ny other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is O=
K to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the LS=
P ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths =
that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correct=
ly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at T=
oS should not be inspected or
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; processed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; by any LSR that did not know =
what it was doing, and to attempt to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; precess it would be a violati=
on of the normal MPLS processing model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - Stewart<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Notice: This e-mail together =
with any attachments may contain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; information of Ribbon Communi=
cations Inc. and its Affiliates that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; confidential and/or proprieta=
ry for the sole use of the intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; recipient. Any review, disclo=
sure, reliance or distribution by
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; or forwarding without express=
 permission is strictly prohibited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; you are not the intended reci=
pient, please notify the sender<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; immediately and then delete a=
ll copies, including any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________________________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.o=
rg"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</sp=
an></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
:/clicktime.symantec.com/3LbDZkybzjLKby6DAk88iUh6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furlde=
fense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3G18FNxso3yysVeGE2oY=
as86H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2=
Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A=
3A*2A2A25__*2A3BJSU*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNv=
QJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMnORLvEs*2A24__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU*21*21NEt=
6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHiE0sPVM*=
24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEqP=
MKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMg35ivIo$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%</span></a><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxd=
Ze1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 25&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%=
2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F%252Furld<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o=
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob=
1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%=
7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C=
1000&amp;amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F=
6h34Q%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi=
.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mai=
lto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:w=
indowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 =
739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; _________________________________=
______________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span><=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
:/clicktime.symantec.com/3RHS3C2UW8kquG4WDQJFwvp6H2?u=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furlde=
fense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3R52RdsrwRGTaBhuR2Sd=
5Qw6H2*3Fu*3Dhttps*2A3A*2A2F*2A2Furldefense.com*2A2Fv3*2A2F__https*2A3A*2A2=
Fclicktime.symantec.com*2A2F353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2*2A3Fu*2A3Dhttps*2A2A=
3A*2A2A252__*2A3BJSU*2A21*2A21NEt6yMaO-gk*2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wN=
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t6yMaO-gk*21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mH2RXrzIw=
*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RH_x4Yy-jTEq=
PMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMct3koic$">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://clicktime.sym=
antec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifL=
Cb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2=
F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%25=
2Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a2=
4092e29708d931a0e327%257C0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%=
257C637595389337881384%257<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA=
iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DX=
QlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%=
3D0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</=
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bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 6=
4<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a><=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/q_9JFQUnVkMNuAFMYwo9sLZEfR8>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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--_000_MW4PR03MB63952599D725AD5717547F3AF6099MW4PR03MB6395namp_
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John,
Again, lots of thanks for your comments.

Please see inline below.

Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 5:06 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Hi,

Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander=
.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Ande=
rsson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
Lots of thanks for your comment.

A few points:

1.         I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it find=
s an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it und=
erstands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I=
 have demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of=
 the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC=
 6790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an =
[ELI, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requi=
res a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR doma=
in and it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL=
] pairs in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS l=
abel stack when received by a transit LSR with this capability."
[[Sasha]] I have not seen any such statement either. However, I think that=
 we may be dealing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node t=
hat originates advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID, is considered as =
the egress node for the segment represented by this SID, even if it is a t=
ransit node for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack o=
f SIDs. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaini=
ng to egress LERs are sufficient.


  1.  My reading of your comment to my response "If that's the behavior th=
at we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable" is that:

     *   You agree that some behavior has been defined in RFC 8662

[JD]  Your email, to which I responded, referenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 a=
nd I was commenting on this sentence:  "Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs)=
 MUST drop such packets.".  I.e., it is referring to=20non-egress, or tran=
sit, LSRs.  [[Sasha]] Please see my previous comment


     *   You claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable=


[JD]  See my previous comment.


  1.  I respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:

     *   My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be=
 only inserted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has s=
ignaled its capability to handle such a pair

[JD]   RFC 6970 only talks about egress LSRs advertising this capability.[=
[Sasha]] Please see my previous comment about terminology. Please note als=
o that the signaling drafts I have mentioned, define signaling of Entropy =
Label Capability (ELC) by all router. In particular, the Signaling Entropy=
 Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using ISIS<https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13> draft says:

   Bit 3 in the Prefix Attribute Flags [RFC7794<https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/html/rfc7794>] is used as the ELC Flag

   (E-flag), as shown in Figure 1.  If a router has multiple interfaces,

   the router MUST NOT announce the ELC for any local host prefixes

   unless all of its interfaces are capable of processing ELs.  If a

   router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC

   for every local host prefix it advertises in IS-IS.
>From my POV, this specification means that the {ELI, EL} tuple may be safe=
ly inserted into the label stack immediately after any IGP Prefix SID adve=
rtised with PHP by a router that has also advertised ELC capability in IS-=
IS.


b.       While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling abili=
ty to handle {ELI, EL} pair at the top of the stack, it provides Informati=
onal references to a couple of drafts that define such signaling in IS-IS =
and OSPF, and these drafts have been already approved for publication as R=
FCs

[JD]  See my first comment above.


     *   With this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can=
 be inserted in the label stack in the following positions:

             =20                                                    i.    =
  Immediately following an IGP Prefix SID that has been advertised (with P=
HP) by a node that has signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}

[JD]  See my first comment above.  I am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn't w=
ork.  Rather, like RFC 5886 it is under-specified.
[[Sasha]] From my POV, the above-mentioned signaling drafts provide the mi=
ssing specification. This is quite different from RFC 5586.


                                                                ii.      I=
mmediately following an Adjacency SID that represents an IGP adjacency bet=
ween the advertising node and the node that signaled its capability to sup=
port {ELI, EL}

     *   Depending on specific network topology and the specific stack of =
SIDs, the rules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load bal=
ancing, or not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really different from the si=
tuation with "vanilla" RFC 6790 if, e.g., some of the PEs where a given L3=
VPN service is represented, have advertised their ability to handle {ELI, =
EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not advertise such capability.
My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Ande=
rsson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander=
.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Ande=
rsson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
"Great minds think alike".

Regarding your aside comment on RFC 8662:
The last para of Section 4.3 of RFC 6790<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3E=
vxQY3dZE6MCzRCky9z2rr6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3=
A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3PDwoeDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2=
A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A=
2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc6790%2A2Asection-4.3__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2=
A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI%2A24__%=
3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu=
_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8%24> says:


   As stated in Sections 4.1<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3BjFjLGdKqJxXP=
2G6xuL1M76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktim=
e.symantec.com%2F3Q8XJjsAd3fUwja7w7zBq576H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furld=
efense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fht=
ml%2A2Frfc6790%2A2Asection-4.1__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2C=
zJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIA=
gx76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0%24> and 5<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Nq2VVAPq9X=
CTjsgwnp77NH6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclick=
time.symantec.com%2F3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Fu=
rldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2=
Fhtml%2A2Frfc6790%2A2Asection-5__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2=
CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSI=
Agx76WXM8Mm5xSMISv8PZA%24>, an egress LSR that signals both ELC

   and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which should

   be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmost

   label.  Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets, as

   per Section 3.18 of [RFC3031]<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3ENxypfQnY=
6TWQf4EL29AHf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclic=
ktime.symantec.com%2F3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2F=
urldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A=
2Fhtml%2A2Frfc3031%2A2Asection-3.18__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p=
6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgqlxMBs%2A24__%3BJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_=
wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuYwU%24>.



[JD]  If that's the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is not deployable=
.

All that is needed is to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs=
 for which the originating routers  effectively signal Implicit Null  (exp=
licitly or implicitly), including:

  1.  All Adj-SIDs
  2.  All EPE SIDs
  3.  IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertised with PHP (P-flag cleared i=
n IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)
  4.  BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of  the BG=
P-LU route.

I do not think that I have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved =
in PHP).

My 2c,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Hi,

I agree with Sasha's email, below, which is proposing what I was proposing=
 several months ago.

As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it=
 finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when i=
t understands the label pair or when it doesn't.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf=
 Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Loa,

Regarding your question "Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher=
 up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR=
?"  my answer is NO.



I have already said on this thread that if GAL is exposed as ToS but not B=
oS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwarder, it will not know how=
 to handle it since such handling has not ever been defined - not in RFC 5=
586<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3B4HUFbyoxVqmUo7QNkPWDS6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3LFH4qVD=
AVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__h=
ttps%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2%2A3Fu%=
2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%2A2A3A=
%2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc5586__%2A2A3B%2A=
2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6l=
EzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%=
2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA%2A24__=
%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTE=
qPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA%24> and not anywhere =
else. Stewart has responded that "an old implementation that received a To=
S GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictabl=
e".  Neither of these options sounds optimistic to me.



I also do not favor investing into a technique that would guarantee that p=
ackets with GAL in the middle of the stack only pass thru new LSRs that kn=
ow how to handle them .



However, it is quite possible to do the following IMHO:

  1.  Retain the existing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that imme=
diately follows the BoS
  2.  Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the stru=
ctures that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, "we can carry =
everything in the associated channel", including TLVs and Sub-TLVs, if nec=
essary - it will be up to the specific applications to process such struct=
ures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwarding).
  3.  Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogn=
ize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while =
forwarding labeled packets in the usual way
  4.  Also allow usage of TTL to help LERs that recognize new ACH types to=
 meddle with the information carried in the ACH (similar to what has been =
done in RFC 8169<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LjkcAVhuwRQJqtrxjrf92G6H2=
?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.c=
om%2F3UtLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A=
2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snh=
kP6H2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__=
https%2A2A3A%2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc8169=
__%2A2A3B%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-=
rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%2A21%2A21=
NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz=
6RrTE%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%2=
1RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc%24>) even=
 if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the depth of the stac=
k.



I cannot say whether this approach is good enough for the specific set of =
applications. But it looks to me as reasonably safe since it does not requ=
ire any new forwarding functionality in existing LERs - primum non nocere<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/3GKsCwGpjw974kU3D48QDJb6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3QMnW2BUztof=
okYXW2fRkBn6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https=
%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H2%2A3Fu%2A3D=
https%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%2A2A3A%2A2=
A2Fen.wikipedia.org%2A2A2Fwiki%2A2A2FPrimum_non_nocere__%2A2A3B%2A2A21%2A2=
A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vS=
HtMI1UZKH0%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6=
mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg%2A24__%3BJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCo=
cKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0%24>.



My 2c,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m>





-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<m=
ailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.n=
et@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Stewart =
Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS



Sasha,





On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:

> Loa and=20all,

>

> I fully agree with the proposal "to not tamper with ACH anymore".

>

>  From my POV, this includes (by implication) not tampering also with

> GAL as well.



Would you include adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make =
sure that it is within readable depth for any LSR?

>

> As for the question " If the slot immediately after the label stack is

> reserved for the ACH does this mean the no other ancillary data may be

> inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL

> in the stack" the answer, IMHO, is YES.

>

> However, it is quite possible to carry any kind of new information in

> the ACH, similar to the way this has been done in Section 3 of RFC

> 8169

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=
2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3<https://click=
time.symantec.com/3UGQjSTm4XpXjLBxA9zJqcr6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.=
com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H=
2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fcli=
cktime.symantec.com%2A2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%=
2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%2A2A3A%2A2A2Fclicktime.=
symantec.com%2A2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2%2A2A3Fu%2A2A3Dhttps%2A2A2A3A=
%2A2A2A2F%2A2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2A2Frf=
c8169%2A2A2A23section-3__%2A2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21=
QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%2A2A24__%2=
A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXx=
JuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGC=
ocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMMFVywrw%24>> where G-ACH is used for r=
esidence time measurement.



Logically this means that we can carry everything in the associated channe=
l. However there can only one ACH per packet, right?



/Loa

>

> Regards,

>

> Sasha

>

> Office: +972-39266302

>

> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.=
com>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>

> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM

> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<mailto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffre=
y (Zhaohui) Zhang

> <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dma=
rc.ietf.org>>; Alexander Vainshtein

> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; S=
tewart Bryant

> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

> Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

> Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary

> data after the BoS

>

> Haoyu, DT

>

> On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:

>

>  > My opinion is to not tamper with ACH anymore because it's designed

> for control channel only and so far for a special scenario. The

> constraints on GAL and format of ACH are hard to adapt to the new use

> case requirements.

>

>  >

>

> I think this is a position that is possible to defend.

>

> One question though.

>

> RFC 5586 specifies "that the ACH appears immediately after the bottom

> of the label stack."

>

> If the slot immediately after the label stack is reserved for the ACH

> does this mean the no other ancillary data maybe inserted in this

> position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there is a GAL in the stack?

>

> /Loa

>

>  > Thanks!

>

>  > Haoyu

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)

>

>  > Zhang

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:02 AM

>

>  > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3c=
mailto:loa@pi.nu>>>; Alexander

> Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > Hi Loa,

>

>  >

>

>  >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the

> stack and multiple sets of ancillary data after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking about

> multiple indicators in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data

> after the BoS, either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic

> extension headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to

> handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.

>

>  >

>

>  > Thanks.

>

>  >

>

>  > Jeffrey

>

>  >

>

>  > -----Original Message-----

>

>  > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%=
3cmailto:loa@pi.nu>>>

>

>  > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM

>

>  > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net

> <mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>; Stewart Bryant

>

>  > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com<mailto:ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  > Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

> ancillary

>

>  > data after the BoS

>

>  >

>

>  > [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > DT,

>

>  >

>

>  > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the

> entire discussion.

>

>  >

>

>  > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,

> and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the data that

> they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have seen no real

> effort to address the interference's this might lead to.

>

>  >

>

>  > Further inline

>

>  >

>

>  >

>

>  > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:

>

>  >> Hi,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                              ACH

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |                         ACH TLV Header

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      |

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~                        G-ACh Message

> ~

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      ~

> |

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

>

>  >>

>

>  >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat

> any

>

>  >> 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after that GAL as a

>

>  >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the

> transit

>

>  >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's just

>

>  >> part of the ACH.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the ACH

>

>  >> following it?

>

>  >

>

>  > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the NoS-bit

> set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit will be found

> deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llow the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address

> multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary data

> after the BoS.

>

>  >

>

>  > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and

> start working on solutions after that.

>

>  >

>

>  > /Loa

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Jeffrey

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mai=
lto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>>>

> *On Behalf Of *Alexander

>

>  >> Vainshtein

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Stewart,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation that

>

>  >> received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or

>

>  >> worst be unpredictable".

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs

> not

>

>  >> at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the

> LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly":

>

>  >>

>

>  >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction  2.

>

>  >> Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this

>

>  >>      restriction work including at least:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but

> not at

>

>  >>          BoS must be provided

>

>  >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS

> correctly in

>

>  >>          IGP and BGP must be defined

>

>  >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross

> nodes that

>

>  >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different

> techniques

>

>  >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find out

>

>  >> that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will be

> only

>

>  >> available in the networks where all the nodes support the new

>

>  >> functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes imposes too

>

>  >> many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Regards,

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Sasha

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Office: +972-39266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Cell:      +972-549266302

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbb=
n.com>

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>

>

>  >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM

>

>  >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>>

>

>  >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com

>

>  >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com

> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:gre=
gory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

>

>  >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com

> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>>;

> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org%20%=
3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org>>>

>

>  >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and

>

>  >> ancillary data after the BoS

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein

>

>  >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

>

>  >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>> wrote:

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may

> give it a

>

>  >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL

> being

>

>  >>      not=20the BoS label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be

>

>  >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular

> implementations in

>

>  >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what

> do you

>

>  >>      think?/*

>

>  >>

>

>  >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a whil=
e.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS GAL

> not

>

>  >> at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpredictable.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of

> the

>

>  >> PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process the

> GAL

>

>  >> in the context of the PW label.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model that

> the

>

>  >> GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that preceded it for

>

>  >> context. It was still BoS.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic then

>

>  >>

>

>  >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forward=
ing.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in

> any

>

>  >> well written implementation should just result in the packet being

>

>  >> dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed packet.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not

> at

>

>  >> BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,

>

>  >> including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS were known

> to

>

>  >> be able to process it correctly.

>

>  >>

>

>  >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or

> processed

>

>  >> by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and to attempt to

>

>  >> precess it would be a violation of the normal MPLS processing model.=


>

>  >>

>

>  >> - Stewart

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

>

>  >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that

> is

>

>  >> confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

>

>  >> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by

> others

>

>  >> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited.

> If

>

>  >> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

>

>  >> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  >>

>

>  >>

>

>  >> _______________________________________________

>

>  >> mpls mailing list

>

>  >> mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >>

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%<=
https://clicktime.symantec.com/3AgFeqrtXP4t1gnnks7D75x6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3LbDZkybzjLK=
by6DAk88iUh6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https=
%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F3G18FNxso3yysVeGE2oYas86H2%2A3Fu%2A3D=
https%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%2A2A3A%2A2=
A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2A2F32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2%2A2A3Fu%2A2A3Dh=
ttps%2A2A2A3A%2A2A2A25__%2A2A3BJSU%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftb=
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gx76WXM8Mm5xSMg35ivIo%24>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/32ELHVPxdZe1NeGCU5oipbG6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 25>

>

>  >>

> 2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252

>

>  >> F%252Furld

>

>  >>

> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2

>

>  >> F

>

>  >>

> mpls__%3B!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RVgTGVbknjgIjv3x-q8ob1JglFKOP6qKkgAcCSPbeBMMj2

>

>  >> A

>

>  >>

> nexFnPevXopeK1a6u%24&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Ccc49d

>

>  >> e

>

>  >>

> 9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0

>

>  >> %

>

>  >>

> 7C637595389337881384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ

>

>  >> I

>

>  >>

> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D5et4Juc3Ij

>

>  >> G

>

>  >> dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3F6h34Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

>

>  >>

>

>  >

>

>  > --

>

>  >

>

>  > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.n=
u>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

>  > Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <m=
ailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

>  > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>  >

>

>  > Juniper Business Use Only

>

>  > _______________________________________________

>

>  > mpls mailing list

>

>  > mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

>

>  >

> https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
<https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Twd6qr3hcrCv35XXASuzA16H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3RHS3C2UW8k=
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IAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMct3koic%24>

> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/353Ka7ifLCb9e7KAzjZ4fsf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%=


> 252>

>

>  >

> F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%

>

>  >

> 252Fwww.ietf.org%252Fmailman%252Flistinfo%252Fmpls%26data%3D04%257C01%

>

>  >

> 257Chsong%2540futurewei.com%257Ccc49de9585a24092e29708d931a0e327%257C0

>

>  >

> fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%257C1%257C0%257C637595389337881384%257

>

>  >

> CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

>

>  >

> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C1000%26sdata%3DXQlRpwkgODLRxcIjyMYyPMiCF2K

>

>  > DC0Y7GG4O8VGESnw%253D%26reserved%3D0

>

>  >

>

> --

>

> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

> <mailto:loa@pi.nu>

>

> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> <mail=
to:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

>

> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>

>

> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain

> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is

> confidential=20and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended

> recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others

> or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If

> you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender

> immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments.



--



Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa=
.pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, dis=
closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, =
please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including=
 any attachments.
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Again, lots of thanks=
 for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please see </span><b>=
<i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">inline below</span></i></b><span style=3D=
"color:#1F497D">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt=
; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 5:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Anderss=
on &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@j=
uniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lots of thanks for yo=
ur comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">A few points:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:40.8pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><i>&nbsp;</i></=
b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a =
response to your aside claim that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define w=
hat a transit LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL]
 pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it understands the l=
abel pair or when it doesn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I se=
e it, both Bruno and I have demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere i=
n RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document up=
dates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR =
that understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain a=
nd it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pa=
irs in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with=
 this capability.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] I hav=
e not seen any such statement either. However, I think that we may be deal=
ing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node that originates =
advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID,
 is considered as the egress node <u>for the segment represented by this S=
ID</u>, even if it is a transit node
<u>for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SIDs</u=
>. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to=
 egress LERs are sufficient.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">My=
 reading of your comment to my response &#8220;<b><i><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext">If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RFC 8662 is no=
t deployable</span></i></b>&#8221; is that:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">Yo=
u agree that
<b><i>some</i></b> behavior has been defined in RFC 8662<o:p></o:p></li></=
ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Your email, to which I responded, =
referenced RFC 6790 not RFC 8662 and I was commenting on this sentence:&nb=
sp; &#8220;Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such packets.&#822=
1;.&nbsp; I.e., it is referring to non-egress, or transit, LSRs.
 &nbsp;<span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] Please see my previous comm=
ent </span><o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"2" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">Yo=
u claim that the defined behavior makes RFC 8662 non-deployable<o:p></o:p>=
</li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my previous comment.<o:p></o:p=
></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">I =
respectfully disagree with (2b) above because:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1=20level2 lfo1">=
My reading of RFC 6790 is that {ELI, EL} pairs in any case can be only ins=
erted if the node that receives ELI at the top of the stack has signaled i=
ts capability to handle such a pair<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp;&nbsp; RFC 6970 only talks about eg=
ress LSRs advertising this capability<span style=3D"color:#00B050">.[[Sash=
a]] Please see my previous comment about terminology. Please note also tha=
t the signaling drafts I have mentioned, define signaling
 of Entropy Label Capability (ELC) by all router. In particular, the <a hr=
ef=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13">
<span style=3D"color:#00B050">Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entro=
py Readable Label Depth Using ISIS</span></a> draft says:<o:p></o:p></span=
></i></b></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Bit 3 in the Prefix Attribut=
e Flags [<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7794" title=3D=
"&quot;IS-IS Prefix Attributes for Extended IPv4 and IPv6 Reachability&quo=
t;">RFC7794</a>] is used as the ELC Flag<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; (E-flag), as shown in Figure=
 1.&nbsp; If a router has multiple interfaces,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; the router MUST NOT announce=
 the ELC for any local host prefixes<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; unless all of its interfaces=
 are capable of processing ELs.&nbsp; If a<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; router supports ELs on all o=
f its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; for every local host prefix =
it advertises in IS-IS.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">From my POV, th=
is specification means that the {ELI, EL} tuple may be safely inserted int=
o the label stack immediately after any IGP Prefix SID advertised with PHP=
 by a router that has also advertised ELC
 capability in IS-IS.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:81.6pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"color:#1F4=
97D">While RFC 8662 does not define any mechanisms for signaling ability t=
o handle {ELI, EL} pair at the top of the stack, it provides Informational=
 references to a couple of drafts that
 define such signaling in IS-IS and OSPF, and these drafts have been alrea=
dy approved for publication as RFCs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.<o:p></=
o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">Wi=
th this signaling in place in an SR domain, {ELI, EL} pairs can be inserte=
d in the label stack in the following positions:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-10=
8.0pt;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;
</span>i.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></sp=
an><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Immediately following an IGP Prefix SID t=
hat has been advertised (with PHP) by a node that has signaled its capabil=
ity
 to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; See my first comment above.&nbsp; =
I am not saying that RFC 8662 doesn&#8217;t work.&nbsp; Rather, like RFC 5=
886 it is under-specified.
<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[[Sasha]] From =
my POV, the above-mentioned signaling drafts provide the missing specifica=
tion. This is quite different from RFC 5586.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-10=
8.0pt;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>ii.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></s=
pan><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Immediately following an Adjacency SID t=
hat represents an IGP adjacency between the advertising node and the node =
that
 signaled its capability to support {ELI, EL}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"3" type=3D"1">
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"4" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo1">De=
pending on specific network topology and the specific stack of SIDs, the r=
ules above may be too restrictive to provide effective load balancing, or =
not. But IMHO and FWIW this is not really
 different from the situation with &#8220;vanilla&#8221; RFC 6790 if, e.g.=
, some of the PEs where a given L3VPN service is represented, have adverti=
sed their ability to handle {ELI, EL} via LDP or RSVP-TE, and some did not=
 advertise such capability. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdr=
ake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 9:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p=20class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@j=
uniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Great minds th=
ink alike&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your aside =
comment on RFC 8662:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The last para of <a h=
ref=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3EvxQY3dZE6MCzRCky9z2rr6H2?u=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3PDwo=
eDbzi3ETXLKkVKHdzL6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F=
__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc6790%2A2Asec=
tion-4.3__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odX=
jIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHgEYFFvI%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6=
yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMw-aGDt8%=
24">
Section 4.3 of RFC 6790</a> says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; As stated in Sections <a hre=
f=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3BjFjLGdKqJxXP2G6xuL1M76H2?u=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3Q8XJjs=
Ad3fUwja7w7zBq576H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__=
https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc6790%2A2Asecti=
on-4.1__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjI=
zcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHfo9sMUI%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yM=
aO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMre1vkh0%24=
">4.1</a> and <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Nq2VVAPq9XCTjsgwn=
p77NH6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.sy=
mantec.com%2F3W3scAvqRKZF6Hd9aBjBfFo6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefen=
se.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2=
A2Frfc6790%2A2Asection-5__%2A3BIw%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXx=
JuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHyGgu2ZY%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WX=
M8Mm5xSMISv8PZA%24">5</a>, <span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:=
yellow">an egress LSR that signals both ELC<o:p></o:p></span></span></pre>=

<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> &=
nbsp;&nbsp;and implicit null MUST pop the ELI and the next label (which sh=
ould<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; be the EL), if it encounters a packet with the ELI as the topmo=
st<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">&n=
bsp;&nbsp; label.&nbsp; Any other LSR (including PHP LSRs) MUST drop such =
packets</span><span style=3D"color:black">, as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; per <a href=3D"https://click=
time.symantec.com/3ENxypfQnY6TWQf4EL29AHf6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.=
com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3WQ3TqWDKFmsEnTM4eLJ4SG6H=
2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2A2Fdoc%2A2Fhtml%2A2Frfc3031%2A2Asection-3.18__%2A3BIw%2=
A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um0=
2ro1mHgqlxMBs%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-j=
TEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMCPiuYwU%24">Section&nbsp;3.=
18 of [RFC3031]</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif">[JD]&nbsp; If that&#8217;s the behavior that we want, then RF=
C 8662 is not deployable.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">All that is needed is=
 to clarify the (rather, self-evident) rules for SIDs for which the origin=
ating routers &nbsp;effectively signal Implicit Null &nbsp;(explicitly or =
implicitly), including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">Al=
l Adj-SIDs <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2">All EPE SIDs<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">IGP Prefix SIDs that have been advertis=
ed with PHP (P-flag cleared in IS-IS, NP-flag cleared in OSPF)<o:p></o:p><=
/li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2=
">BGP Prefix SIDs advertised with Implicit Null in the NLRI of&nbsp; the B=
GP-LU route.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do not think that I=
 have missed anything (Binding SIDs are not involved in PHP).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdr=
ake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;; Loa Andersson &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Sasha&#8217;s email, below, which is p=
roposing what I was proposing several months ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As an aside, RFC 8662 does not define what a transi=
t LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS lab=
el stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doesn't.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls-bounce=
s@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Vainshtein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2021 6:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Je=
ffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i=
etf.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Em=
ail. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regarding your question &#8220;Would you include=
 adding a copy of the GAL higher up in the stack to make sure that it is w=
ithin readable depth for any LSR?&#8221;&nbsp; my answer is NO.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have already said on this thread that if GAL i=
s exposed as ToS but not BoS to an existing standards-compliant MPLS forwa=
rder, it will not know how to handle it since such handling has not ever b=
een defined &#8211; not in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3B4HUFbyoxVqmUo7QNkPWDS6H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3=
LFH4qVDAVUpzHHufyXwucN6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%=
2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F3LpX2kp84U26BibbLu6xFzk6H2=
%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https=
%2A2A3A%2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc5586__%2A=
2A3B%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5p=
hnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMt9fY588%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%2A21%2A21NEt6y=
MaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHeNCd6vA=
%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x=
4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMfgunyzA%24">
RFC 5586</a> and not anywhere else. Stewart has responded that &#8220;an o=
ld implementation that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable&#8221;. &nbsp;Neither of these optio=
ns sounds optimistic to me.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I also do not favor investing=20into a technique=
 that would guarantee that packets with GAL in the middle of the stack onl=
y pass thru new LSRs that know how to handle them .
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">However, it is quite possible to do the followin=
g IMHO:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Retain the exist=
ing definitions of GAL just at BoS and ACH that immediately follows the Bo=
S<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"=
>Define new ACH types that can carry new ancillary data, and the structure=
s that can be used for this purpose (as you have said, &#8220;we can carry=
 everything in the associated channel&#8221;, including TLVs and Sub-TLVs,=

 if necessary &#8211; it will be up to the specific applications to proces=
s such structures in ACH, but at least this would not affect MPLS forwardi=
ng).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lf=
o3">Allow LERs that (a) can detect presence of GAL at BoS and (b) recogniz=
e new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in the ACH while fo=
rwarding labeled packets in the usual way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3">Also allow usage of TTL to help L=
ERs that recognize new ACH types to meddle with the information carried in=
 the ACH (similar to what has been done in
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3LjkcAVhuwRQJqtrxjrf92G6H2?u=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3=
UtLBGnixTrdCEoquSjkP16H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2=
A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F389RV1YUirVu9q6t88snhkP6H2%=
2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%=
2A2A3A%2A2A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2Frfc8169__%2A2=
A3B%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5ph=
nYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtMB4Q7qmg%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%2A21%2A21NEt6yM=
aO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvz6RrTE%=
2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4=
Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMz23oBcc%24">
RFC 8169</a>) even if they cannot detect presence of GAL at BoS due to the=
 depth of the stack.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I cannot say whether this approach is good enoug=
h for the specific set of applications. But it looks to me as reasonably s=
afe since it does not require any new forwarding functionality in existing=
 LERs -
<i><a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3GKsCwGpjw974kU3D48QDJb6H2?u=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F=
3QMnW2BUztofokYXW2fRkBn6H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3=
%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A2F3GdXcZMxHHLvCC23kWNFkFG6H=
2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Furldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__http=
s%2A2A3A%2A2A2Fen.wikipedia.org%2A2A2Fwiki%2A2A2FPrimum_non_nocere__%2A2A3=
B%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6JZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnY=
EW6lEzzVD0vSHtMI1UZKH0%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-=
gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7odXjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHSI9qHKg%2A2=
4__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-j=
TEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0ArR_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMA9liAC0%24">primum
 non nocere</a></i>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">My 2c,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-5492663=
02<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.V=
ainshtein@rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt; <br=
>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:16 PM<br>
To: Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.c=
om">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org=
">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Stewart
 Bryant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com">stewart.bryant@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sasha,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On 21/06/2021 11:55, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I fully agree with the proposal &quot;to no=
t tamper with ACH anymore&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; From my POV, this includes (by implic=
ation) not tampering also with
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Would you include adding a copy of the GAL highe=
r up in the stack to make sure that it is within readable depth for any LS=
R?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; As for the question &quot; If the slot imme=
diately after the label stack is
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reserved for the ACH does this mean the no =
other ancillary data may be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; inserted in this position, e.g. MPLS EH's, =
given that there is a GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in the stack&quot; the answer, IMHO, is YES=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; However, it is quite possible to carry any =
kind of new information in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the ACH, similar to the way this has been d=
one in Section 3 of RFC
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 8169 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.c=
om/3UGQjSTm4XpXjLBxA9zJqcr6H2?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__ht=
tps%3A%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3QzLxrBKpSCaXxZ9WTPFXb46H2%3Fu%3Dhttps%2=
A3A%2A2F%2A2Furldefense.com%2A2Fv3%2A2F__https%2A3A%2A2Fclicktime.symantec=
.com%2A2F3UR1A1MPDSqDJ5gouUDZ8i86H2%2A3Fu%2A3Dhttps%2A2A3A%2A2A2F%2A2A2Fur=
ldefense.com%2A2A2Fv3%2A2A2F__https%2A2A3A%2A2A2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2A=
2A2F3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2%2A2A3Fu%2A2A3Dhttps%2A2A2A3A%2A2A2A2F%2A2A2=
A2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2A2A2A2Fdoc%2A2A2A2Fhtml%2A2A2A2Frfc8169%2A2A2A23s=
ection-3__%2A2A3BJSUlJSUlJQ%2A2A21%2A2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A2A21QiStnftbs7rzJ6J=
ZRtxhV6LZks_wNvQJ-rNe5phnYEW6lEzzVD0vSHtM0KyFNp0%2A2A24__%2A3BJSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%2A21%2A21NEt6yMaO-gk%2A21Uk8p6mR2CzJJFXxJuweTWC-0CDe7od=
XjIzcOP6yLGVqs-46um02ro1mHvEw3iqk%2A24__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21NEt6yMaO-gk%21RH_x4Yy-jTEqPMKiyMGCocKS-X0kXu_C0Ar=
R_wJSIAgx76WXM8Mm5xSMMFVywrw%24"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-deco=
ration:none">https://clicktime.symantec.com/3FFh4tSjBeGN2kf7C3a3Sa76H2?u=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8169%23section-3</spa=
n></a>&gt;
 where G-ACH is used for residence time measurement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Logically this means that we can carry everythin=
g in the associated channel. However there can only one ACH per packet, ri=
ght?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">/Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-54=
9266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexan=
der.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
oa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:40 PM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Haoyu Song &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@=
futurewei.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">hsong=
@futurewei.com</span></a>&gt;; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.ne=
t@dmarc.ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">zz=
hang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</span></a>&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;; Stewart Bryant
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@=
gmail.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators i=
n the stack and ancillary
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Haoyu, DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On 17/06/2021 18:56, Haoyu Song wrote:<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; My opinion is to not tamper with=
 ACH anymore because it's designed
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for control channel only and so far for a s=
pecial scenario. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; constraints on GAL and format of ACH are ha=
rd to adapt to the new use
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; case requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I think this is a position that is possible=
 to defend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; One question though.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; RFC 5586 specifies &quot;that the ACH appea=
rs immediately after the bottom
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the label stack.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; If the slot immediately after the label sta=
ck is reserved for the ACH
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; does this mean the no other ancillary data =
maybe inserted in this
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; position, e.g. MPLS EH's, given that there =
is a GAL in the stack?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Haoyu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: mpls &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpl=
s-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Zhang<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:=
02 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Al=
exander
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Hi Loa,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; but I'd like to see the DT a=
ddress multiple indicators in the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; stack and multiple sets of ancillary data a=
fter the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p=20class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think the earlier emails of th=
is email thread were talking about
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack; for multi=
ple set of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS, either the extended ACH or t=
he proposed MPLS/generic
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; extension headers or a merge of those propo=
sals should be able to
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; handle it. This is alluded to the DataAfter=
BOS wiki page.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; From: Loa Andersson &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:loa@pi.nu%20%3cmailto:loa@pi.nu"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;t=
ext-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu &lt;mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10=
:46 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;=
zzhang@juniper.net <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net"><=
span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:zzhang@juniper=
.net</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.co=
m<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;; Stewart Bryant<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.br=
yant@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">stewart.bryant@gmail.com &lt;mailto:stewa=
rt.bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</=
span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:window=
text;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] I=
ndicators in the stack and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ancillary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; [External Email. Be cautious of =
content]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; DT,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but=
 it is intended to address the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; entire discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There seem to be enough issues t=
o sort out around the GAL/ACH pair,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and I was worried about a set of other indi=
cators and the data that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; they might want to put &quot;after the BoS&=
quot;. So far I have seen no real
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; effort to address the interference's this m=
ight lead to.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Further inline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zh=
aohui) Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's not clear how we could =
put a GAL not at a BoS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ACH&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ACH TLV Header&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; zero or more ACH TLVs&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G-ACh =
Message&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ~<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If the GAL does not have S-b=
it set, wouldn't a transit LSR treat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4-ocet field (i.e. those in =
the above Figure) after that GAL as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-o=
ctet field has the S-bit set, the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; transit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; LSR will think the label sta=
ck ends there even though that's just<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; part of the ACH.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp;=20&gt;&gt; Or are you saying that a G=
AL not at the BoS will not have the ACH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; following it?<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Well, as far as I understand a G=
AL which does not have the NoS-bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; set will have other labels after itself. Th=
e BoS-bit will be found
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; deeper down stack and the ACH will immediat=
ely fo9llow the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Yes there are issues here, but I=
'd like to see the DT address
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple indicators in the stack and multip=
le sets of ancillary data
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; after the BoS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I think we need to nail down the=
 relevant questiuons first, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; start working on solutions after that.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; /Loa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Jeffrey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*mpls &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls-bounces@ietf.org &lt;mailt=
o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; *On Behalf Of *Alexander<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 5:07 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:mpls=
@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf=
.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *[External Email. Be cautiou=
s of content]*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Stewart,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I fully agree with your stat=
ement that &quot;an old implementation that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received a ToS GAL not at Bo=
S would at best throw an exception or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; worst be unpredictable&quot;=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regarding your statement &qu=
ot;it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS IFF the creator of th=
e LSP ensured that all LSRs on the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly&quot;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. I fully agree=
 with this statement as a general restriction&nbsp; 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Quite a lot of things have t=
o be done in order to make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; restriction work including at least:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BoS must be provided<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; correctly in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP and=20BGP must be defined<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; 3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; nodes that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; process GAL correctly must be provided for diffe=
rent
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; techniques<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It is still possible that, a=
fter all this work, we shall find out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; that the benefits of support=
ing GAL at ToS but not BoS will be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; available in the networks wh=
ere all the nodes support the new<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; functionality because presen=
ce of non-supporting nodes imposes too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; many restrictions on connect=
ivity and/or resilience.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Sasha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Office: +972-39266302<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Alexander.Vainshtein=
@rbbn.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Stewart Bryant &lt;st=
ewart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2=
021 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* Alexander Vainshtein &=
lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* Stewart Bryant &lt;ste=
wart.bryant@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:stewart.bryant@gm=
ail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:stewart.=
bryant@gmail.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtex=
t;text-decoration:none">gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:gregory.mirsky@zt=
etx.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.=
com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:gregory.=
mirsky@ztetx.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mpls@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decor=
ation:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org%20%3cmailto:mpls@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-de=
coration:none">mailto:mpls@ietf.org &lt;mailto:mpls@ietf.org</span></a>&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTER=
NAL] Indicators in the stack and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ancillary data after the BoS=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &lt;mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</span></a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; give it a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; not the BoS label.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; collecting the known actual behavior of popular
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; do you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; think?/*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That is actually a considera=
ble amount of work that will take a while.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It seems to me that an old i=
mplementation that received a ToS GAL
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; at BoS would at best throw a=
n exception or worst be unpredictable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The original assumed process=
ing model is to take the context of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PW label or PW+FAT label, di=
scover the GAL and then process the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; GAL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; in the context of the PW lab=
el.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; When we extended GAL to appl=
y to LSPs we again had the model that
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; GAL operated in the context =
of the LSP label that preceded it for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; context. It was still BoS.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Putting the GAL further up t=
he stack is a new behaviour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 knows the new semantic all is good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If it arrives at an LSR that=
 does not know the new semantic then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a) An error has occurred eit=
her in setting up the LSP, or in forwarding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; b) The behaviour at the rece=
iving node is unpredictable, but in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; well written implementation =
should just result in the packet being<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dropped and counted as with =
any other Mal-formed packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So I would think that it is =
OK to have multiple GALs and GALs not
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; BoS IFF the creator of the L=
SP ensured that all LSRs on the LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; including ECMP and FRR paths=
 that found the GAL at ToS were known
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; be able to process it correc=
tly.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A GAL not at BoS and not at =
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; %<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; G<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; dfux%2FR5MsJnuTYDWL6S4pZ8uz3=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa=
@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +4=
6 739 81 21 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Juniper Business Use Only<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; ________________________________=
_______________<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;&nbsp; &gt; mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>=

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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Loa Andersson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: <a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa@pi.nu</span></a>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa@pi.nu</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Senior MPLS Expert <a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi=
.nu@gmail.com">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color=
:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com</span></a>&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Bronze Dragon Consulting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21=
 64<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Notice: This e-mail together with any attac=
hments may contain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; information of Ribbon Communications Inc. a=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi,

Snipped, comment inline [JD1}.

Yours Irrespectively,

John


1.        I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside claim =
that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds a=
n [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it underst=
ands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I have=
 demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of =
the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6=
790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an [EL=
I, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain an=
d it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pair=
s in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS label st=
ack when received by a transit LSR with this capability."
[[Sasha]] I have not seen any such statement either. However, I think that =
we may be dealing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node tha=
t originates advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID, is considered as the=
 egress node for the segment represented by this SID, even if it is a trans=
it node for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SID=
s. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to =
egress LERs are sufficient.

[JD1]  This seems like quite a stretch.  Also, as I mentioned in my first e=
mail, there is no discussion of how an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPLS =
label stack is to be processed or ensuring, when building an MPLS label sta=
ck, that [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the top=
 of an MPLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR that u=
nderstands entropy labels.

[JD1}  Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the RFC 8662 techniques=
 for GAL?  I.e., a node indicates whether it can receive a GAL at the top o=
f an MPLS label stack and the ingress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in w=
hich a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.  Or do impleme=
ntations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL labels tha=
t are not at the bottom of the stack?  This seems like silly behavior but o=
ne never knows.



Juniper Business Use Only

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Snipped, comment inline [JD1}. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
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<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do =
when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the
 MPLS label stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doe=
sn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I see it, both Bruno and I ha=
ve demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in=
 RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document upda=
tes the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR tha=
t understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires a=
 transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain and=
 it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pairs=
 in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with =
this capability.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] I have=
 not seen any such statement either. However, I think that we may be dealin=
g with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node that originates adv=
ertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID,
 is considered as the egress node <u>for the segment represented by this SI=
D</u>, even if it is a transit node
<u>for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SIDs</u>=
. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to e=
gress LERs are sufficient.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1]&nbsp; This seems like quite a stretch.&n=
bsp; Also, as I mentioned in my first email, there is no discussion of how =
an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPLS label stack is to be processed or en=
suring, when building an MPLS label stack, that
 [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the top of an M=
PLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR that understan=
ds entropy labels.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1}&nbsp; Do you think that it would be safe=
 to re-use the RFC 8662 techniques for GAL?&nbsp; I.e., a node indicates wh=
ether it can receive a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the ingres=
s LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in which
 a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.&nbsp; Or do implem=
entations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL labels th=
at are not at the bottom of the stack?&nbsp; This seems like silly behavior=
 but one never knows.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/3BSzQyqaEH_QIDSmjGdaiS5mRPk>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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John,
Regarding your question "Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the =
RFC 8662 techniques for GAL?  I.e., a node indicates whether it can receiv=
e a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the ingress LSR constructs M=
PLS label stacks in which a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such=
 nodes":

IMHO the answer depends on what the node that detects GAL at ToS but not B=
oS is handing this. I see two options:

1.       Option 1: Pop GAL, process the ACH and forward based on the next =
label in the stack. This would be safe but probably useless for the specif=
ic applications people are trying to address

2.       Option 2:  Same as above, but push GAL on top of the new label st=
ack when forwarding the packet based on the next label in the stack) - i.e=
., similar to what is defined or the Router Alert label. This would probab=
ly work for the targeted applications, but would not be safe - unless you =
only pass thru the new nodes that understand GAL at ToS but not BoS.

Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 6:35 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zha=
ng <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data =
after the BoS

Hi,

Snipped, comment inline [JD1}.

Yours Irrespectively,

John


1.         I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it find=
s an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it und=
erstands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I=
 have demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of=
 the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC=
 6790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an =
[ELI, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requi=
res a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR doma=
in and it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL=
] pairs in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS l=
abel stack when received by a transit LSR with this capability."
[[Sasha]] I have not seen any such statement either. However, I think that=
 we may be dealing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node t=
hat originates advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID, is considered as =
the egress node for the segment represented by this SID, even if it is a t=
ransit node for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack o=
f SIDs. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaini=
ng to egress LERs are sufficient.

[JD1]  This seems like quite a stretch.  Also, as I mentioned in my first =
email, there is no discussion of how an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPL=
S label stack is to be processed or ensuring, when building an MPLS label =
stack, that [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the=
 top of an MPLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR t=
hat understands entropy labels.

[JD1}  Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the RFC 8662 technique=
s for GAL?  I.e., a node indicates whether it can receive a GAL at the top=
 of an MPLS label stack and the ingress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks i=
n which a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.  Or do imp=
lementations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL label=
s that are not at the bottom of the stack?  This seems like silly behavior=
 but one never knows.



Juniper Business Use Only

Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information =
of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/=
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closure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express =
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your questi=
on &#8220;</span><b><i>Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the RF=
C 8662 techniques for GAL?&nbsp; I.e., a node indicates whether it can rec=
eive a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the
 ingress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in which a GAL rises to the top =
of the stack only at such nodes</i></b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#822=
1;:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">IMHO the answer depen=
ds on what the node that detects GAL at ToS but not BoS is handing this. I=
 see two options:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><u><span style=3D=
"color:#1F497D">Option 1</span></u></b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">: Pop=
 GAL, process the ACH and forward based on the next label in the stack. Th=
is would be safe but probably useless for
 the specific applications people are trying to address<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 lev=
el1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><u><span style=3D=
"color:#1F497D">Option 2</span></u></b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">:&nbs=
p; Same as above, but push GAL on top of the new label stack when forwardi=
ng the packet based on the next label in the
 stack) &#8211; i.e., similar to what is defined or the Router Alert label=
. This would probably work for the targeted applications, but would not be=
 safe &#8211; unless you only pass thru the new nodes that understand GAL =
at ToS but not BoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; Al=
exander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm=
 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt=
; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 6:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey =
(Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Anderss=
on &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillar=
y data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Snipped, comment inline [JD1}. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 4.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:40.8pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list=
:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><i>&nbsp;</i></=
b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a =
response to your aside claim that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define w=
hat a transit LSR should do when it finds an [ELI, EL]
 pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it understands the l=
abel pair or when it doesn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I se=
e it, both Bruno and I have demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere i=
n RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document up=
dates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR =
that understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain a=
nd it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pa=
irs in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with=
 this capability.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] I hav=
e not seen any such statement either. However, I think that we may be deal=
ing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node that originates =
advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID,
 is considered as the egress node <u>for the segment represented by this S=
ID</u>, even if it is a transit node
<u>for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SIDs</u=
>. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to=
 egress LERs are sufficient.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1]&nbsp; This seems like quite a stretch.&=
nbsp; Also, as I mentioned in my first email, there is no discussion of ho=
w an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPLS label stack is to be processed or=
 ensuring, when building an MPLS label stack, that
 [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the top of an =
MPLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR that underst=
ands entropy labels.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1}&nbsp; Do you think that it would be saf=
e to re-use the RFC 8662 techniques for GAL?&nbsp; I.e., a node indicates =
whether it can receive a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the ing=
ress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in which
 a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.&nbsp; Or do imple=
mentations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL labels =
that are not at the bottom of the stack?&nbsp; This seems like silly behav=
ior but one never knows.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
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<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</spa=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/NwwSgE7V2rZYZtlnc35QEqu7rmE>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi,

Comment inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:10 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhan=
g <zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

John,
Regarding your question "Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the R=
FC 8662 techniques for GAL?  I.e., a node indicates whether it can receive =
a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the ingress LSR constructs MPLS=
 label stacks in which a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nod=
es":

IMHO the answer depends on what the node that detects GAL at ToS but not Bo=
S is handing this. I see two options:

  1.  Option 1: Pop GAL, process the ACH and forward based on the next labe=
l in the stack. This would be safe but probably useless for the specific ap=
plications people are trying to address

[JD]  Why?  The ingress node would have placed multiple GALs within the MPL=
S label stack and subsequent transit LSRs would operate on the next GAL.  T=
his is how RFC 8662 works.


  1.  Option 2:  Same as above, but push GAL on top of the new label stack =
when forwarding the packet based on the next label in the stack) - i.e., si=
milar to what is defined or the Router Alert label. This would probably wor=
k for the targeted applications, but would not be safe - unless you only pa=
ss thru the new nodes that understand GAL at ToS but not BoS.

[JD]  This is not how RFC 8662 works


Regards,
Sasha

Office: +972-39266302
Cell:      +972-549266302
Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>

From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 6:35 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@rbbn.com>>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>; Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com<ma=
ilto:hsong@futurewei.com>>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=3D40juniper.net=
@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Loa Anderss=
on <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>>
Subject: RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data a=
fter the BoS

Hi,

Snipped, comment inline [JD1}.

Yours Irrespectively,

John


1.        I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside claim =
that "RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do when it finds a=
n [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the MPLS label stack, either when it underst=
ands the label pair or when it doesn't". As I see it, both Bruno and I have=
 demonstrated that this behavior is defined

[JD]  Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in RFC 8662 do I see a statement of =
the form:  "This document updates the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6=
790 to allow a transit LSR that understands entropy labels to remove an [EL=
I, EL] pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.  This requires =
a transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain an=
d it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pair=
s in the MPLS label stack they will only be at the top of the MPLS label st=
ack when received by a transit LSR with this capability."
[[Sasha]] I have not seen any such statement either. However, I think that =
we may be dealing with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node tha=
t originates advertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID, is considered as the=
 egress node for the segment represented by this SID, even if it is a trans=
it node for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SID=
s. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to =
egress LERs are sufficient.

[JD1]  This seems like quite a stretch.  Also, as I mentioned in my first e=
mail, there is no discussion of how an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPLS =
label stack is to be processed or ensuring, when building an MPLS label sta=
ck, that [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the top=
 of an MPLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR that u=
nderstands entropy labels.

[JD1}  Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the RFC 8662 techniques=
 for GAL?  I.e., a node indicates whether it can receive a GAL at the top o=
f an MPLS label stack and the ingress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in w=
hich a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.  Or do impleme=
ntations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL labels tha=
t are not at the bottom of the stack?  This seems like silly behavior but o=
ne never knows.



Juniper Business Use Only

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vain=
shtein@rbbn.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; Haoyu Song &lt;hsong@futurewei.com&gt;; Jeffrey (=
Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; Loa Andersson=
 &lt;loa@pi.nu&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding your questio=
n &#8220;</span><b><i>Do you think that it would be safe to re-use the RFC =
8662 techniques for GAL?&nbsp; I.e., a node indicates whether it can receiv=
e a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the
 ingress LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in which a GAL rises to the top o=
f the stack only at such nodes</i></b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;=
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">IMHO the answer depend=
s on what the node that detects GAL at ToS but not BoS is handing this. I s=
ee two options:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo3">
<b><u>Option 1</u></b>: Pop GAL, process the ACH and forward based on the n=
ext label in the stack. This would be safe but probably useless for the spe=
cific applications people are trying to address<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; The ingress node would h=
ave placed multiple GALs within the MPLS label stack and subsequent transit=
 LSRs would operate on the next GAL.&nbsp; This is how RFC 8662 works. &nbs=
p;</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"2" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:#1F497D;margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l1 level1 lfo3">
<b><u>Option 2</u></b>:&nbsp; Same as above, but push GAL on top of the new=
 label stack when forwarding the packet based on the next label in the stac=
k) &#8211; i.e., similar to what is defined or the Router Alert label. This=
 would probably work for the targeted applications,
 but would not be safe &#8211; unless you only pass thru the new nodes that=
 understand GAL at ToS but not BoS.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; This is not how RFC 8662 works </i>=
</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sasha<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Office: +972-39266302<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +972-549266302<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com">
Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 22, 2021 6:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
rbbn.com">Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; Haoyu Song &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hsong@futurewei.com">hsong@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Jeff=
rey (Zhaohui) Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf=
.org">zzhang=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; Loa
 Andersson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">loa@pi.nu</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary=
 data after the BoS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Snipped, comment inline [JD1}. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:40.8pt;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><i>&nbsp;</i></b>&nbsp;<span style=3D"col=
or:#1F497D">I have sent the previous email as a response to your aside clai=
m that &#8220;</span>RFC 8662 does not define what a transit LSR should do =
when it finds an [ELI, EL] pair at the top of the
 MPLS label stack, either when it understands the label pair or when it doe=
sn't<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8221;. As I see it, both Bruno and I ha=
ve demonstrated that this behavior is defined<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD]&nbsp; Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in=
 RFC 8662 do I see a statement of the form: &nbsp;&#8220;This document upda=
tes the transit LSR behavior defined in RFC 6790 to allow a transit LSR tha=
t understands entropy labels to remove an [ELI, EL]
 pair that it sees at the top of an MPLS label stack.&nbsp; This requires a=
 transit LSR to indicate this capability to other LSRs in the SR domain and=
 it requires the ingress LSR to ensure that when it inserts [ELI, EL] pairs=
 in the MPLS label stack they will only
 be at the top of the MPLS label stack when received by a transit LSR with =
this capability.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#00B050">[[Sasha]] I have=
 not seen any such statement either. However, I think that we may be dealin=
g with a terminology issue. I believe that in SR a node that originates adv=
ertisement, say, of an IGP Prefix SID,
 is considered as the egress node <u>for the segment represented by this SI=
D</u>, even if it is a transit node
<u>for an LSP that includes this SID in the middle of the stack of SIDs</u>=
. This is why they have assumed that considerations of 6790 pertaining to e=
gress LERs are sufficient.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1]&nbsp; This seems like quite a stretch.&n=
bsp; Also, as I mentioned in my first email, there is no discussion of how =
an [ELI, EL] pair at the top on a MPLS label stack is to be processed or en=
suring, when building an MPLS label stack, that
 [ELI, EL] pairs need to be inserted such that they rise to the top of an M=
PLS label stack only when they are received by a transit LSR that understan=
ds entropy labels.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>[JD1}&nbsp; Do you think that it would be safe=
 to re-use the RFC 8662 techniques for GAL?&nbsp; I.e., a node indicates wh=
ether it can receive a GAL at the top of an MPLS label stack and the ingres=
s LSR constructs MPLS label stacks in which
 a GAL rises to the top of the stack only at such nodes.&nbsp; Or do implem=
entations of RFC 5586 explicitly scan an MPLS label stack for GAL labels th=
at are not at the bottom of the stack?&nbsp; This seems like silly behavior=
 but one never knows.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information o=
f Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or=
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sure, reliance or distribution by
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From: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/6JdLlZZnRBmVU9r0gMqYvICsASc>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Bruno,=20

Thanks for the response.=20
Just one clarification. What I mean for "forced binding" is that:  EL and E=
H are two independent use cases but if we require encoding ELI to indicate =
EH, we need both in a packet which may not be necessary. In other words, if=
 we don't need (or support) EL at all, we still need to find another way to=
 indicate EH.

Regards,
Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:33 AM
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzha=
ng@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stew=
art Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the Bo=
S

Hi Haoyu,

Thanks for replying.
Please see inline [Bruno]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:44 PM
> To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; Loa=20
> Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>;=20
> Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=20
> the BoS
>=20
> Hi Bruno,
>=20
> Thanks for the clarification. We might have some issues using the=20
> forced binding in some cases.
[Bruno] I'm not familiar with this 'forced binding' term.

>  For example, in our EH architecture, we allow an EH to be inserted or=20
> removed at any nodes on an LSP.

[Bruno] As the thread is about EH _indicator_ I'll focus on the indicator. =
Draft [1] does not forbid the indicator to be modified en route.
[1] https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-l=
abel-id-01%23section-2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Cc4ee945=
27683473cb22408d935586024%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C6375=
99475954543231%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi=
LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DpM57vSqNe51mL1PGdXKahJjdy=
M6B1yzl23ftktvlYmQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0=20

> Also, ELI+EI are two labels, which is more expensive than one SPL=20
> solution.

[Bruno]
It would be more expensive only in the case that EL is not needed/useful AN=
D that one SPL be allocated for signaling the EH.
In all other cases, it's less expensive.=20


> Having said this, I could list your proposal as a possible solution.
=20
[Bruno] OK. I believe it should, as per the abstract of draft-song-mpls-eh-=
indicator


> BTW, Kireeti and I have discussed a possible option working in a differen=
t way.
> We would use a new SPL to indicate multiples things (also by encoding=20
> the unused TTL/CoS bits): the existence of other special labels in the=20
> label stack (e.g., ELI+EL) and the existence/location of extension=20
> headers after the label stack. Since we have a new SPL, we have more free=
dom to define its behavior.

[Bruno] Sure it also works. Different tradeoffs.

Best regards,
--Bruno=20

>=20
> Best,
> Haoyu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>;=20
> Jeffrey
> (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein=20
> <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=20
> the BoS
>=20
> Hi Haoyu,
>=20
> > From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> >
> > Hi Bruno,
> >
> > For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in the=
 packet?
>=20
> Yes. (Both ELI and EL.)
>=20
> > What if it doesn't have such a label?
>=20
> The node requiring the indicator adds the Entropy Label (ELI, EL). I=20
> guess same principle as the other options discussed in the Figure 5 of=20
> draft-song-mpls-eh- indicator.
> In which case you get Entropy information for free (I mean no extra=20
> label). But from the entropy standpoint, it would be better to have=20
> the EL, ELI pushed by the ingress as this is the node which should have t=
he most entropy information.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --Bruno
>=20
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Haoyu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
> > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang=20
> > <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein=20
> > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after=20
> > the BoS
> >
> > [+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]
> >
> > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa=20
> > > Andersson
> > >
> > > Jeffrey,
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > > Hi Loa,
> > > >
> > > >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the=20
> > > >> stack and multiple
> > > sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> > > >
> > > > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking=20
> > > > about multiple indicators
> > > in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS,=20
> > > either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension=20
> > > headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it.
> > > This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> > >
> > > hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in=20
> > > several drafts
> > >
> > >   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH=20
> > > indicator
> > >
> > >   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a=20
> > > special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
> > >
> > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL=20
> > > in the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > >
> > >   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL=20
> > > higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun=20
> > > readable depth might reach the GAL
> > >
> > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL=20
> > > in the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > >
> > >   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential=20
> > > indicators, that is also telling if the EH should be processed on=20
> > > every EH capable node or "just" at ingress and egress
> >
> > The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fda
> > ta
> > tracker
> > .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-la
> > be
> > l-
> > id%23section-
> >
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b6895f808
> >
> d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217
> >
> 6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> >
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK
> > 0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIlgbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> >
> > It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.
> >
> > Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
> > -  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is=20
> > already used for load balancing
> > -  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose=20
> > MPLS Label
> > value)
> > - allows location freedom
> > - does not need control plane extension
> >
> > Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table=20
> > 5 in order to include the above draft?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Regards,
> > --Bruno
> >
> > >
> > > The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
> > >
> > > I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
> > >
> > > - first what we want to have
> > > - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
> > >    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Jeffrey
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander=20
> > > > Vainshtein
> > > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant=20
> > > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > > > ancillary data after
> > > the BoS
> > > >
> > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DT,
> > > >
> > > > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the=20
> > > > entire discussion.
> > > >
> > > > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH=20
> > > > pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the=20
> > > > data that they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have=20
> > > > seen no real effort to address the interference's this might lead t=
o.
> > > >
> > > > Further inline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                              ACH                           =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                     =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                                                            =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                  =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                                                            =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>      |                                                            =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                       =
   ~
> > > >>
> > > >>      ~                                                            =
   |
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > >>
> > > >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> > > >>
> > > >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR=20
> > > >> treat any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after=20
> > > >> that GAL as a
> > > >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the=20
> > > >> label+TOS+S+transit
> > > >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's=20
> > > >> just part of the ACH.
> > > >>
> > > >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the=20
> > > >> ACH following it?
> > > >
> > > > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the=20
> > > > NoS-bit set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit=20
> > > > will be found deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9llo=
w the BoS.
> > > >
> > > > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address=20
> > > > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary=20
> > > > data after the
> > BoS.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and=20
> > > > start working on solutions after that.
> > > >
> > > > /Loa
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey
> > > >>
> > > >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander=20
> > > >> Vainshtein
> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> > > >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > >>
> > > >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> > > >>
> > > >> Stewart,
> > > >>
> > > >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation=20
> > > >> that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an=20
> > > >> exception or worst be unpredictable".
> > > >>
> > > >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and=20
> > > >> GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all=20
> > > >> LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the=20
> > > >> GAL at ToS were known to be able to process it correctly":
> > > >>
> > > >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> > > >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> > > >>      restriction work including at least:
> > > >>
> > > >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but no=
t at
> > > >>          BoS must be provided
> > > >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS correc=
tly in
> > > >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> > > >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross node=
s that
> > > >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different tech=
niques
> > > >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find=20
> > > >> out that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will=20
> > > >> be only available in the networks where all the nodes support=20
> > > >> the new functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes=20
> > > >> imposes too many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Sasha
> > > >>
> > > >> Office: +972-39266302
> > > >>
> > > >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> > > >>
> > > >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> > > >>
> > > >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> > > >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=20
> > > >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> > > >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com=20
> > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com=20
> > > >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org=20
> > > >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and=20
> > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > >>
> > > >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> > > >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may gi=
ve it a
> > > >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL =
being
> > > >>      not the BoS label.
> > > >>
> > > >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be
> > > >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementatio=
ns in
> > > >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - what =
do you
> > > >>      think?/*
> > > >>
> > > >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a wh=
ile.
> > > >>
> > > >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS=20
> > > >> GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be unpred=
ictable.
> > > >>
> > > >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of=20
> > > >> the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process=20
> > > >> the GAL in the context of the PW label.
> > > >>
> > > >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model=20
> > > >> that the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that=20
> > > >> preceded it for context. It was still BoS.
> > > >>
> > > >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> > > >>
> > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> > > >>
> > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic=20
> > > >> then
> > > >>
> > > >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in forwa=
rding.
> > > >>
> > > >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in=20
> > > >> any well written implementation should just result in the=20
> > > >> packet being dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed pack=
et.
> > > >>
> > > >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs=20
> > > >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on=20
> > > >> the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS=20
> > > >> were known to be able to process it correctly.
> > > >>
> > > >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or=20
> > > >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and=20
> > > >> to attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal=20
> > > >> MPLS processing
> > model.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Stewart
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain=20
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> > > >>
> > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F
> > > ur
> > > ld
> > >
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > 2F
> > >
> >
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> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > > >
> > > > Juniper Business Use Only
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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>=20
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___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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 le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Le=
s messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to=
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ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used=
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If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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Thank you.


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>, "draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org" <draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
Thread-Index: AQHXZnp1KmXm0GDTTUWo1eOKTl9pvqseqjHAgAAA0ZCAAA1wYIAA+maAgAChoJCAATg4IA==
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 12:41:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Haoyu,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> Hi Bruno,
>=20
> Thanks for the response.
> Just one clarification. What I mean for "forced binding" is that:  EL and=
 EH are two
> independent use cases but if we require encoding ELI to indicate EH, we n=
eed
> both in a packet which may not be necessary.

Thanks for the clarification.
Agreed.

> In other words, if we don't need (or
> support) EL at all, we still need to find another way to indicate EH.

More simply, rather than defining and supporting another way, you need to s=
upport/advertise the EL.

Regards,
Bruno
>=20
> Regards,
> Haoyu
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:33 AM
> To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.o=
rg
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com=
>;
> Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the =
BoS
>=20
> Hi Haoyu,
>=20
> Thanks for replying.
> Please see inline [Bruno]
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:44 PM
> > To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; Loa
> > Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>;
> > Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after
> > the BoS
> >
> > Hi Bruno,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification. We might have some issues using the
> > forced binding in some cases.
> [Bruno] I'm not familiar with this 'forced binding' term.
>=20
> >  For example, in our EH architecture, we allow an EH to be inserted or
> > removed at any nodes on an LSP.
>=20
> [Bruno] As the thread is about EH _indicator_ I'll focus on the indicator=
. Draft [1]
> does not forbid the indicator to be modified en route.
> [1]
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker
> .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-i=
d-
> 01%23section-
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7Cc4ee94527683473cb22408
> d935586024%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759947595
> 4543231%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DpM57vSqNe51mL1P
> GdXKahJjdyM6B1yzl23ftktvlYmQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>=20
> > Also, ELI+EI are two labels, which is more expensive than one SPL
> > solution.
>=20
> [Bruno]
> It would be more expensive only in the case that EL is not needed/useful =
AND that
> one SPL be allocated for signaling the EH.
> In all other cases, it's less expensive.
>=20
>=20
> > Having said this, I could list your proposal as a possible solution.
>=20
> [Bruno] OK. I believe it should, as per the abstract of draft-song-mpls-e=
h-indicator
>=20
>=20
> > BTW, Kireeti and I have discussed a possible option working in a differ=
ent way.
> > We would use a new SPL to indicate multiples things (also by encoding
> > the unused TTL/CoS bits): the existence of other special labels in the
> > label stack (e.g., ELI+EL) and the existence/location of extension
> > headers after the label stack. Since we have a new SPL, we have more fr=
eedom
> to define its behavior.
>=20
> [Bruno] Sure it also works. Different tradeoffs.
>=20
> Best regards,
> --Bruno
>=20
> >
> > Best,
> > Haoyu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 9:49 AM
> > To: Haoyu Song <hsong@futurewei.com>; Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>;
> > Jeffrey
> > (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
> > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after
> > the BoS
> >
> > Hi Haoyu,
> >
> > > From: Haoyu Song [mailto:hsong@futurewei.com]
> > >
> > > Hi Bruno,
> > >
> > > For clarification, does it mean an entropy label must be present in t=
he packet?
> >
> > Yes. (Both ELI and EL.)
> >
> > > What if it doesn't have such a label?
> >
> > The node requiring the indicator adds the Entropy Label (ELI, EL). I
> > guess same principle as the other options discussed in the Figure 5 of
> > draft-song-mpls-eh- indicator.
> > In which case you get Entropy information for free (I mean no extra
> > label). But from the entropy standpoint, it would be better to have
> > the EL, ELI pushed by the ingress as this is the node which should have=
 the
> most entropy information.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --Bruno
> >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Haoyu
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 1:50 AM
> > > To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> > > <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander Vainshtein
> > > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator@ietf.org
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after
> > > the BoS
> > >
> > > [+ authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator]
> > >
> > > > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa
> > > > Andersson
> > > >
> > > > Jeffrey,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 17/06/2021 17:01, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > > > Hi Loa,
> > > > >
> > > > >> but I'd like to see the DT address multiple indicators in the
> > > > >> stack and multiple
> > > > sets of ancillary data after the BoS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the earlier emails of this email thread were talking
> > > > > about multiple indicators
> > > > in the stack; for multiple set of ancillary data after the BoS,
> > > > either the extended ACH or the proposed MPLS/generic extension
> > > > headers or a merge of those proposals should be able to handle it.
> > > > This is alluded to the DataAfterBOS wiki page.
> > > >
> > > > hmm - yes partly, but there are several indicators proposed in
> > > > several drafts
> > > >
> > > >   draft-gandhi-mpls-ioam-sr has an E"E indicaor and an HBH
> > > > indicator
> > > >
> > > >   draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa make use of TC field and TTL of a
> > > > special purpose label (FAI) as indicators
> > > >
> > > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL
> > > > in the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > > >
> > > >   draft-many-mpls-multiple-gal proposes to add a copy of the GAL
> > > > higher uop the stack so that LSRs with a too shallow maximun
> > > > readable depth might reach the GAL
> > > >
> > > >   there has also been discussion about putting more than one GAL
> > > > in the stack, i.e. differerent GALs pointing to different ACHs.
> > > >
> > > >   draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator have a list of potential
> > > > indicators, that is also telling if the EH should be processed on
> > > > every EH capable node or "just" at ingress and egress
> > >
> > > The following draft proposes a way to carry indicators.
> > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fda
> > > ta
> > > tracker
> > > .ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-la
> > > be
> > > l-
> > > id%23section-
> > >
> >
> 2&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chsong%40futurewei.com%7C08d7220727794b6895f808
> > >
> >
> d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63759862217
> > >
> >
> 6314998%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> > >
> >
> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DVR7DCVMaNM8cGK
> > > 0XuDLugXG6yP6jRYIlgbDuYrh%2B7uM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> > >
> > > It's short (less than one page) and backward compatible for LSR & LER.
> > >
> > > Referring to table 5 of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator it also
> > > -  does not require additional label assuming Entropy Label is
> > > already used for load balancing
> > > -  does not require an additional scarce resource (Special-Purpose
> > > MPLS Label
> > > value)
> > > - allows location freedom
> > > - does not need control plane extension
> > >
> > > Could the authors of draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator update their table
> > > 5 in order to include the above draft?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Regards,
> > > --Bruno
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The FAI might put ancillary data after the BoS.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need to have a comprehensive discussion
> > > >
> > > > - first what we want to have
> > > > - second how when re-direct by an indicator we find the
> > > >    ancillary data that belongs to that indicator.
> > > >
> > > > /Loa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeffrey
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:46 AM
> > > > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; Alexander
> > > > > Vainshtein
> > > > <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>; Stewart Bryant
> > > > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > > > ancillary data after
> > > > the BoS
> > > > >
> > > > > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DT,
> > > > >
> > > > > Responded to Jeffrey's mail, but it is intended to address the
> > > > > entire discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > There seem to be enough issues to sort out around the GAL/ACH
> > > > > pair, and I was worried about a set of other indicators and the
> > > > > data that they might want to put "after the BoS". So far I have
> > > > > seen no real effort to address the interference's this might lead=
 to.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further inline
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 17/06/2021 16:15, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang wrote:
> > > > >> Hi,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It's not clear how we could put a GAL not at a BoS:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      |                              ACH                         =
     |
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      |                         ACH TLV Header                   =
     |
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      |                                                          =
     ~
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      ~                     zero or more ACH TLVs                =
     ~
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      ~                                                          =
     |
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      |                                                          =
     ~
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      ~                        G-ACh Message                     =
     ~
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      ~                                                          =
     |
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > > >>
> > > > >>                         Figure 2: G-ACh Packet Payload
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If the GAL does not have S-bit set, wouldn't a transit LSR
> > > > >> treat any 4-ocet field (i.e. those in the above Figure) after
> > > > >> that GAL as a
> > > > >> label+TOS+S+TTL? If that 4-octet field has the S-bit set, the
> > > > >> label+TOS+S+transit
> > > > >> LSR will think the label stack ends there even though that's
> > > > >> just part of the ACH.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Or are you saying that a GAL not at the BoS will not have the
> > > > >> ACH following it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, as far as I understand a GAL which does not have the
> > > > > NoS-bit set will have other labels after itself. The BoS-bit
> > > > > will be found deeper down stack and the ACH will immediately fo9l=
low the
> BoS.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes there are issues here, but I'd like to see the DT address
> > > > > multiple indicators in the stack and multiple sets of ancillary
> > > > > data after the
> > > BoS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we need to nail down the relevant questiuons first, and
> > > > > start working on solutions after that.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Loa
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jeffrey
> > > > >>
> > > > >> *From:*mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Alexander
> > > > >> Vainshtein
> > > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:07 AM
> > > > >> *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> > > > >> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org
> > > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > > >>
> > > > >> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Stewart,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I fully agree with your statement that "an old implementation
> > > > >> that received a ToS GAL not at BoS would at best throw an
> > > > >> exception or worst be unpredictable".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regarding your statement "it is OK to have multiple GALs and
> > > > >> GALs not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all
> > > > >> LSRs on the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the
> > > > >> GAL at ToS were known to be able to process it correctly":
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   1. I fully agree with this statement as a general restriction
> > > > >>   2. Quite a lot of things have to be done in order to make this
> > > > >>      restriction work including at least:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>       1. The definition of correct processing of GAL at ToS but =
not at
> > > > >>          BoS must be provided
> > > > >>       2. Advertisement of ability to process GAL not at BoS corr=
ectly in
> > > > >>          IGP and BGP must be defined
> > > > >>       3. Ability to set up network-wide paths that only cross no=
des that
> > > > >>          process GAL correctly must be provided for different te=
chniques
> > > > >>          (RSVP-TE, SR-TE, FlexAlgo. BGP-LU etc.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It is still possible that, after all this work, we shall find
> > > > >> out that the benefits of supporting GAL at ToS but not BoS will
> > > > >> be only available in the networks where all the nodes support
> > > > >> the new functionality because presence of non-supporting nodes
> > > > >> imposes too many restrictions on connectivity and/or resilience.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sasha
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Office: +972-39266302
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cell:      +972-549266302
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > > <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> *From:*Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
> > > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2021 10:36 AM
> > > > >> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > > >> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>>
> > > > >> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
> > > > >> <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
> > > > >> <mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>; mpls@ietf.org
> > > > >> <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> > > > >> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and
> > > > >> ancillary data after the BoS
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      On 17 Jun 2021, at 07:45, Alexander Vainshtein
> > > > >>      <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com
> > > > >>      <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may =
give it a
> > > > >>      try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GA=
L being
> > > > >>      not the BoS label.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      */[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could =
be
> > > > >>      collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementat=
ions in
> > > > >>      this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors - wha=
t do you
> > > > >>      think?/*
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That is actually a considerable amount of work that will take a =
while.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It seems to me that an old implementation that received a ToS
> > > > >> GAL not at BoS would at best throw an exception or worst be
> unpredictable.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The original assumed processing model is to take the context of
> > > > >> the PW label or PW+FAT label, discover the GAL and then process
> > > > >> the GAL in the context of the PW label.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> When we extended GAL to apply to LSPs we again had the model
> > > > >> that the GAL operated in the context of the LSP label that
> > > > >> preceded it for context. It was still BoS.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Putting the GAL further up the stack is a new behaviour.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that knows the new semantic all is good.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If it arrives at an LSR that does not know the new semantic
> > > > >> then
> > > > >>
> > > > >> a) An error has occurred either in setting up the LSP, or in for=
warding.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> b) The behaviour at the receiving node is unpredictable, but in
> > > > >> any well written implementation should just result in the
> > > > >> packet being dropped and counted as with any other Mal-formed pa=
cket.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So I would think that it is OK to have multiple GALs and GALs
> > > > >> not at BoS IFF the creator of the LSP ensured that all LSRs on
> > > > >> the LSP, including ECMP and FRR paths that found the GAL at ToS
> > > > >> were known to be able to process it correctly.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> A GAL not at BoS and not at ToS should not be inspected or
> > > > >> processed by any LSR that did not know what it was doing, and
> > > > >> to attempt to precess it would be a violation of the normal
> > > > >> MPLS processing
> > > model.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Stewart
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain
> > > > >> information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates
> > > > >> that is confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the
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> > > > >> please notify the sender immediately and then delete all
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> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > > >>
> > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F
> > > > ur
> > > > ld
> > > >
> > >
> >
> efense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
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> > >
> >
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> > > 2072
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 7794b6895f808d934919550%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%
> > > 7C6
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > JQIjoi
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> >
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DzE3QHyImI86j
> > > 7K
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> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > > > >
> > > > > Juniper Business Use Only
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
> > > > Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
> > > > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> > > >
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Subject: [mpls] MPLS Open Design Team - Meeting 2021-06-24 Cancelled
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Design Team,

The Open Design Team 2021-06-24 is cancelled, next meeting will be 
2021-07-01.

/Loa
-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Hi Deepti,

Sorry that not reply in time due to other delays.
Please see inline [PSF]

Regards,
PSF

------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：DeeptiRathi
收件人：彭少富10053815;
抄送人：draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org;mpls-chairs@ietf.org;mach.chen@huawei.com;mpls@ietf.org;
日 期 ：2021年06月17日 22:19
主 题 ：Re: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
Hi Shaofu,
Please find my comments inline.
I will update draft accordingly.

Regards,
Deepti


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 6:02 PM
To: draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mach.chen@huawei.com
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Subject: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Dear authors, chairs and secretary,

I was selected to review this document. The following are my comments, which are only based on my current understanding. If there are any mistakes, please forgive and correct me.

>1) I agree with the problem background described in section "2. Problem with nil FEC", the challenges and risks brought by using Nil FEC in some scenarios. For example, when SR policy is manually >configured (or distributed by BGP) and segment type is specified as label type, the headend does not know the detailed FEC information for each segment. At this time, we can choose to include Nil FEC in >the FEC stack of echo request. IMO, No matter which layer of FEC stack a Nil FEC is placed, it means that we lose the FEC Validation for this layer, that is, we can not determine whether the node to which an >echo request packet arrives is the expected transit node or egress node of MPLS LSP.
[Deepti]:Yes, its as describe in section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 :
..
If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the
node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.
..

In RFC 8029 assumes there are other FECs along with NIL-FEC in the target FEC-stack. This draft uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack. So no validation will be performed on any transit node and adding EGRESS TLV a minimal validation is provided at egress. Thus it can be used to check any combination of segments on any path without upgrading transit nodes.

I will update abstract and introduction to make it clear that document uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack.


[PSF] Thanks, the clarification is benefit for developers to implement this function. For the clarification itself, however, I may have different understanding of section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 from yours. IMO, section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 is a sub-function called by transit processing (see 4.  Label Operation Check) or egress processing (see 5.  Egress Processing). For example, during egress processing, this sub-function may be called multiple times. The annotation "If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely." in this sub-function may means, if I understand correctly, just skip FEC checking for current Label-L and the FEC at FEC-stack-depth, but not break the parent processing and stop to check the next label and FEC element (if they all exist). So that if we use a single Nil FEC for complete label stack, no validation will be performed on any transit node just because of no FEC element in FEC-stack-depth, 
 but not because of the above annotation. Right ?


>2) Therefore, I think the egress TLV introduced in this document only has positive significance for PING mode, but has little significance for TRACEROUTE mode. According to RFC8029, PING mode is used to >detect that the packets reache the expected egress node, while TRACEROUTE mode is in addition used to detect that the packets reache the expected transit node. It seems that, in the last sentence of >section 2, the expression is inaccurate. In fact, there is no benefit to the processing of transit nodes.
[Deepti] RFC 8029 traceroute procedure validates the FEC on each transit node.
Procedure describe in this draft using NIL FEC + EGRESS TLV, does not validate the transit path.
Every visited transit node in the path gets  reported on ingress node. This information can be used by offline application to validate the traceroute path.


>3) If we focus on the benefits of egress TLV for PING mode, it seems that we can achieve the same effect by using the existing generic IP prefix FEC, which can be used to determine whether the PING packets >have reached the desired destination node. This may be the necessary to consider the introduction of egress TLV in this document, that is, "Nil FEC + egress TLV" compared with "generic IP prefix FEC", >provides the ability that the latter can not provide? Of course, these two options can coexist. If Nil FEC is selected, then the egress TLV is very useful.
[Deepti]: Yes, both FEC can co-exists.
The generic IPv4 and IPv6 prefix sub-TLVs are used when the protocol that is advertising the label is unknown. For these sub-TLVs the information that is carried is the IPv4 or IPv6 prefix and prefix length. Thus Generic FEC types perform an additional control plane validation. The details of generic FEC and validation procedures are not very detailed in the RFC 8029.The use-case mostly specifies inter-AS VPNs as the motivation.
NIL FEC is used to traverse the path without validation for cases where the FEC is not defined or routers are not upgraded to support the new FECs (like newer features, explicit-null, router-alert etc).
Thus it can be used to check any combination of segments on any data path which cant be said for generic FEC.
Certain aspects of Segment Routing such as anycast SIDs required clear guideline on how the validation procedure should work.
Also Generic FEC may not be widely supported and if transit routers are not upgraded to support validation of generic FEC, traceroute may fail.
So instead of adding such clarifications to generic FEC, adding new EGRESS TLV in Nil FEC was better option with minimal Its an optional TLV so the procedures will work fine even if transit routers are not upgraded.
While we clearly specify the processing of egress tlv so that all SR cases are well specified.
Since explicit Path can be created using node-sid, adj-sid, binding-sid, anycast-sids etc. EGRESS TLV prefix will be derived from path egress/destination and not based on labels used in the path to reach the destination.

I will update same in draft.

[PSF] Agree. Nil FEC has a little more scenarios than generic IP prefix FEC can apply, even though they are all designed for incomplete scenes. For example, if the last label is adj-sid, we can still use Nil FEC but not generic IP prefix FEC. 


>4) According to RFC8287, PING mode can only contain a single Nil FEC corresponding to last segment, while TRACEROUTE mode must contain Nil FEC corresponding to each segment. Therefore, I am a little >confused that the TRACEROUTE mode described in section "4.1.  Sending Egress TLV in MPLS Echo Request" in this document only contains a single Nil FEC. Can authors indicate me which document you >refer to? Although, the number of elements in FEC stack (for example, only a single Nil FEC) may be inconsistent with the number of elements in DDMAP label stack (for example, including the whole >outgoing label stack corresponding to SID list), the traceroute processing described in  RFC8029 does support this situation. My worry is that it will bring risks related with the transit node's reply of FEC >change. In this case, it seems that FEC change can not be replied from the transit node, or the FEC change replies from the transit node needs to be ignored on the initiator node, otherwi
 se th  e subsequent >FEC validation will be wrong. This need to supplement and further clarify the processing.
>For example, according to RFC8287, when the transit segment node replies the FEC change POP prefix-SID, how does the initiator handle it? Will the single Nil FEC be removed from the FEC stack? When the >transit node replies to FEC change PUSH (for example, prefix SID enters the outer RSVP-TE forwarding adjacency), how does the initiator handle it? Will RSVP FEC be added to the FEC stack? This issue seems >to also exist in non segment routing case, such as traceroute a BGP LU LSP, assuming LU over LDP, but the initiator only inserts a single BGP-LU FEC in the FEC stack. When the echo request packet arrives at a >transit node of LDP LSP, it found that it need to enter an outer uniform RSVP-TE LSP. At this time, if the transit node replys FEC change PUSH RSVP FEC, it will bring risk, because the FEC stack of the next echo >request is <BGP, RSVP>, while the label stack of DDMAP is < BGP, LDP, RSVP >, I doubt whether the subsequent reply of "IS egress" of TE LSP can successfully 
 remov  e the RSVP FEC element from the FEC >stack.
[Deepti]
As describe in section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 :
..
If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the
node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.
..

In RFC 8029 assumes there are other FECs along with NIL-FEC in the target FEC-stack.
This draft uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack which will get removed only at egress and hence FEC validation will be skipped over complete path.
So ingress/initiator will never get FEC-stack change.

I will update draft with this information to make it clear.

[PSF]  My doubts are the same as above, i.e., the above annotation may be to say that FEC checking for the current Label-L and the FEC at FEC-stack-depth is skipped completely, but not the entire FEC stack. And, according to 4.5.1 or 4.5.2 of RFC8029, it seems that FEC stack change is enclosed in echo reply message without dependency on FEC validation skipped or successfully checked. If that is true, for traceroute mode, a single Nil FEC may bring risks. Hope to see the updated version to give readers more information for this risk.


5) Others:
There is a spelling error in the example, egress router R3 should be changed to R7.
[Deepti] I will update the draft for all these errors.

My conclusion: In Ping mode, egress TLV is useful to be combined with Nil FEC. It offers an alternative to generic IP prefix FEC.

Regards,
PSF
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From nobody Fri Jun 25 01:52:39 2021
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Design Team, Kireeti,

I added two concerns and one question to the wiki:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/LabelStack

/Loa
-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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Design Team, Kireeti,

I have added a further question in the same part of the wiki, on the H-bit.

/Loa

On 25/06/2021 10:52, Loa Andersson wrote:
> Design Team, Kireeti,
> 
> I added two concerns and one question to the wiki:
> 
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/LabelStack
> 
> /Loa

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


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From: Deepti Rathi <deeptir@juniper.net>
To: "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
CC: "draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org" <draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "mach.chen@huawei.com" <mach.chen@huawei.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re:MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/1NQSt37sTAatiq3BFTwtXjQd6Iw>
Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
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Hi Deepti,

Thanks for your reply. I have no more questions.

Regards,
PSF


------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：DeeptiRathi
收件人：彭少富10053815;
抄送人：draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org;mpls-chairs@ietf.org;mach.chen@huawei.com;mpls@ietf.org;
日 期 ：2021年06月28日 17:58
主 题 ：RE: Re:MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
Hi Shaofu,
Please see inline with tag "[[Deepti]]".
Soon will update the draft with all these needed info.
Regards,
Deepti
Juniper Business Use Only
-----Original Message-----
From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:29 PM
To: Deepti Rathi <deeptir@juniper.net>
Cc: draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mach.chen@huawei.com; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re:MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
[External Email. Be cautious of content]
Hi Deepti,
Sorry that not reply in time due to other delays.
Please see inline [PSF]
Regards,
PSF
------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：DeeptiRathi
收件人：彭少富10053815;
抄送人：draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org;mpls-chairs@ietf.org;mach.chen@huawei.com;mpls@ietf.org;
日 期 ：2021年06月17日 22:19
主 题 ：Re: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
Hi Shaofu,
Please find my comments inline.
I will update draft accordingly.
Regards,
Deepti
Juniper Business Use Only
-----Original Message-----
From: peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 6:02 PM
To: draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mach.chen@huawei.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: MPLS-RT review for draft-rathi-mpls-egress-tlv-for-nil-fec
[External Email. Be cautious of content]
Dear authors, chairs and secretary,
I was selected to review this document. The following are my comments, which are only based on my current understanding. If there are any mistakes, please forgive and correct me.
>1) I agree with the problem background described in section "2. Problem with nil FEC", the challenges and risks brought by using Nil FEC in some scenarios. For example, when SR policy is manually >configured (or distributed by BGP) and segment type is specified as label type, the headend does not know the detailed FEC information for each segment. At this time, we can choose to include Nil FEC in >the FEC stack of echo request. IMO, No matter which layer of FEC stack a Nil FEC is placed, it means that we lose the FEC Validation for this layer, that is, we can not determine whether the node to which an >echo request packet arrives is the expected transit node or egress node of MPLS LSP.
[Deepti]:Yes, its as describe in section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 :
.
If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.
.
In RFC 8029 assumes there are other FECs along with NIL-FEC in the target FEC-stack. This draft uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack. So no validation will be performed on any transit node and adding EGRESS TLV a minimal validation is provided at egress. Thus it can be used to check any combination of segments on any path without upgrading transit nodes.
I will update abstract and introduction to make it clear that document uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack.
[PSF] Thanks, the clarification is benefit for developers to implement this function. For the clarification itself, however, I may have different understanding of section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 from yours. IMO, section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 is a sub-function called by transit processing (see 4.  Label Operation Check) or egress processing (see 5.  Egress Processing). For example, during egress processing, this sub-function may be called multiple times. The annotation "If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely." in this sub-function may means, if I understand correctly, just skip FEC checking for current Label-L and the FEC at FEC-stack-depth, but not break the parent processing and stop to check the next label and FEC element (if they all exist). So that if we use a single Nil FEC for complete label stack, no validation will be performed on any transit node just because of no FEC element in FEC-stack-depth, 
  but not because of the above annotation. Right ?
[[Deepti]] Yes.
>2) Therefore, I think the egress TLV introduced in this document only has positive significance for PING mode, but has little significance for TRACEROUTE mode. According to RFC8029, PING mode is used to >detect that the packets reache the expected egress node, while TRACEROUTE mode is in addition used to detect that the packets reache the expected transit node. It seems that, in the last sentence of >section 2, the expression is inaccurate. In fact, there is no benefit to the processing of transit nodes.
[Deepti] RFC 8029 traceroute procedure validates the FEC on each transit node.
Procedure describe in this draft using NIL FEC + EGRESS TLV, does not validate the transit path.
Every visited transit node in the path gets  reported on ingress node. This information can be used by offline application to validate the traceroute path.
>3) If we focus on the benefits of egress TLV for PING mode, it seems that we can achieve the same effect by using the existing generic IP prefix FEC, which can be used to determine whether the PING packets >have reached the desired destination node. This may be the necessary to consider the introduction of egress TLV in this document, that is, "Nil FEC + egress TLV" compared with "generic IP prefix FEC", >provides the ability that the latter can not provide? Of course, these two options can coexist. If Nil FEC is selected, then the egress TLV is very useful.
[Deepti]: Yes, both FEC can co-exists.
The generic IPv4 and IPv6 prefix sub-TLVs are used when the protocol that is advertising the label is unknown. For these sub-TLVs the information that is carried is the IPv4 or IPv6 prefix and prefix length. Thus Generic FEC types perform an additional control plane validation. The details of generic FEC and validation procedures are not very detailed in the RFC 8029.The use-case mostly specifies inter-AS VPNs as the motivation.
NIL FEC is used to traverse the path without validation for cases where the FEC is not defined or routers are not upgraded to support the new FECs (like newer features, explicit-null, router-alert etc).
Thus it can be used to check any combination of segments on any data path which cant be said for generic FEC.
Certain aspects of Segment Routing such as anycast SIDs required clear guideline on how the validation procedure should work.
Also Generic FEC may not be widely supported and if transit routers are not upgraded to support validation of generic FEC, traceroute may fail.
So instead of adding such clarifications to generic FEC, adding new EGRESS TLV in Nil FEC was better option with minimal Its an optional TLV so the procedures will work fine even if transit routers are not upgraded.
While we clearly specify the processing of egress tlv so that all SR cases are well specified.
Since explicit Path can be created using node-sid, adj-sid, binding-sid, anycast-sids etc. EGRESS TLV prefix will be derived from path egress/destination and not based on labels used in the path to reach the destination.
I will update same in draft.
[PSF] Agree. Nil FEC has a little more scenarios than generic IP prefix FEC can apply, even though they are all designed for incomplete scenes. For example, if the last label is adj-sid, we can still use Nil FEC but not generic IP prefix FEC.
>4) According to RFC8287, PING mode can only contain a single Nil FEC
>corresponding to last segment, while TRACEROUTE mode must contain Nil
>FEC corresponding to each segment. Therefore, I am a little >confused
>that the TRACEROUTE mode described in section "4.1.  Sending Egress TLV
>in MPLS Echo Request" in this document only contains a single Nil FEC.
>Can authors indicate me which document you >refer to? Although, the
>number of elements in FEC stack (for example, only a single Nil FEC)
>may be inconsistent with the number of elements in DDMAP label stack
>(for example, including the whole >outgoing label stack corresponding
>to SID list), the traceroute processing described in  RFC8029 does
>support this situation. My worry is that it will bring risks related
>with the transit node's reply of FEC >change. In this case, it seems
>that FEC change can not be replied from the transit node, or the FEC
>change replies from the transit node needs to be ignored on the
>initiator node, otherwi
se th  e subsequent >FEC validation will be wrong. This need to supplement and further clarify the processing.
>For example, according to RFC8287, when the transit segment node
>replies the FEC change POP prefix-SID, how does the initiator handle
>it? Will the single Nil FEC be removed from the FEC stack? When the
>>transit node replies to FEC change PUSH (for example, prefix SID
>enters the outer RSVP-TE forwarding adjacency), how does the initiator
>handle it? Will RSVP FEC be added to the FEC stack? This issue seems
>>to also exist in non segment routing case, such as traceroute a BGP LU
>LSP, assuming LU over LDP, but the initiator only inserts a single
>BGP-LU FEC in the FEC stack. When the echo request packet arrives at a
>>transit node of LDP LSP, it found that it need to enter an outer
>uniform RSVP-TE LSP. At this time, if the transit node replys FEC
>change PUSH RSVP FEC, it will bring risk, because the FEC stack of the
>next echo >request is <BGP, RSVP>, while the label stack of DDMAP is <
>BGP, LDP, RSVP >, I doubt whether the subsequent reply of "IS egress"
>of TE LSP can successfully
remov  e the RSVP FEC element from the FEC >stack.
[Deepti]
As describe in section 4.4.1 of RFC8029 :
.
If the outermost FEC of the Target FEC stack is the Nil FEC, then the node MUST skip the Target FEC validation completely.
.
In RFC 8029 assumes there are other FECs along with NIL-FEC in the target FEC-stack.
This draft uses single NIL FEC for complete label stack which will get removed only at egress and hence FEC validation will be skipped over complete path.
So ingress/initiator will never get FEC-stack change.
I will update draft with this information to make it clear.
[PSF]  My doubts are the same as above, i.e., the above annotation may be to say that FEC checking for the current Label-L and the FEC at FEC-stack-depth is skipped completely, but not the entire FEC stack. And, according to 4.5.1 or 4.5.2 of RFC8029, it seems that FEC stack change is enclosed in echo reply message without dependency on FEC validation skipped or successfully checked. If that is true, for traceroute mode, a single Nil FEC may bring risks. Hope to see the updated version to give readers more information for this risk.
[[Deepti]] This single NIL FEC based traceroute is being proposed mostly for SR-TE paths especially when labels such as static/LSP label, Binding-SID, EPE-SID etc are used in label stack.
It may not be possible to derive the FEC of these labels (non-IGP labels) on the headend of the router when the SR-TE path is created by the controller.
In such situations, Nil FEC based traceroute will help to trace the path.
5) Others:
There is a spelling error in the example, egress router R3 should be changed to R7.
[Deepti] I will update the draft for all these errors.
My conclusion: In Ping mode, egress TLV is useful to be combined with Nil FEC. It offers an alternative to generic IP prefix FEC.
Regards,
PSF
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From nobody Mon Jun 28 10:55:08 2021
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Subject: [mpls] Open Design Team online meeting on Thursday (2021-07-01 )
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Open Design Team,

I have uploaded the agenda for the meeting on Thursday.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/mpls/wiki/2021-07-01-agenda

/Loa
-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From nobody Wed Jun 30 11:23:27 2021
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From: David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 14:23:01 -0400
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To: pals@ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/A_tSo4CbvWZe1jlnIDDzUmP6Ah4>
Subject: [mpls] IETF 111 PALS, MPLS, DETNET Joint Session - Slot Request
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Hi All,

The draft agenda for IETF111 has been posted -

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda

PALS has a joint session with the MPLS and DetNet WGs, focusing on cross-gr=
oup
MPLS issues:

TUESDAY, July 27, 2021 Session III

Start: 16:00 PDT/19:00 EDT/23:00 UTC

Room 6  RTG pals  Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Services WG - Joint
PALS/MPLS/DetNet

The PALS chairs and I(PALS Secretary)are coordinating the agenda for this
session.

This will be a fully remote meeting.  Our plan is to focus on summarizing
progress from the Open MPLS Design Team, updates and progress on the
cross-group MPLS issues.

Please send slot requests via *reply to this email* (i.e., to
david.sinicrope@gmail.com) *with the Subject intact* before the end of the
day Sunday, July 11 (any TZ).  Please include the following in your request=
:

1. Topic: (e.g., =E2=80=9CPW Control Word Stitching=E2=80=9D)



2. URL to your draft on Datatracker: you only need to provide the file name
to the example URL (e.g., =E2=80=9C
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk/=E2=80=9D)=
:

3. Brief statement of objectives and issues to be discussed and resolved
via the presentation during the meeting:  (e.g.,

=E2=80=9CGather interest from the WG to work on this solution=E2=80=9D)



4. Requested duration: (norm/default is 10 min): =E2=80=9C20 min=E2=80=9D



5. Speaker name: <Given-name FAMILY-NAME-IN-ALL-CAPS> (e.g., =E2=80=9CDave
SINICROPE=E2=80=9D):

Thank you!

Dave Sinicrope

PALS Secretary
david.sinicrope@gmail.com

--000000000000baff9605c5ffd0af
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-f23ed844-7fff-efc2-ee=
72-f928286b34a9"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:=
normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:p=
re-wrap">Hi All,</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;mar=
gin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-va=
riant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap">The draft agenda for IETF111 has been posted -</span=
></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:=
0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-=
variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda">https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/meeting/111/agenda</a></span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"lin=
e-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tr=
ansparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">PALS has a joint session with the M=
PLS and DetNet WGs, focusing on </span><span style=3D"background-color:tran=
sparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:11pt=
;white-space:pre-wrap">cross-group MPLS issues:</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr=
" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);bac=
kground-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asi=
an:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">TUESDAY, July 27, 2=
021 Session III=C2=A0</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;ma=
rgin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-v=
ariant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap">Start: </span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-=
asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">16:00 PDT/19:00 =
EDT/23:00 UTC</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top=
:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap">Room 6=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;fo=
nt-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:bas=
eline;white-space:pre-wrap">RTG </span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent=
;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:=
baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">pals=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:t=
ransparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;verti=
cal-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Pseudowire And LDP-enabled Service=
s WG - Joint PALS/MPLS/DetNet</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-he=
ight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transp=
arent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The PALS chairs and I(PALS Secretary)ar=
e coordinating the agenda for this session.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" st=
yle=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgroun=
d-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:nor=
mal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">This will be a fully remo=
te meeting.=C2=A0 Our plan is to focus on summarizing progress from the Ope=
n MPLS Design Team, updates and progress on the cross-group MPLS issues.</s=
pan></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-=
bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap">Please send slot requests via <u>reply to this email</u> (i.e., to <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:david.sinicrope@gmail.com">david.sinicrope@gmail.com</a>) <u>=
with the Subject intact</u> before the end of </span><span style=3D"backgro=
und-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
font-size:11pt;white-space:pre-wrap">the day Sunday, July 11 (any TZ).=C2=
=A0 Please include the following in your request:</span></p><br><p dir=3D"l=
tr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);bac=
kground-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asi=
an:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">1. Topic: (e.g., </=
span><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:11pt;white-space:pre-wrap">=E2=80=9CPW=
 Control Word Stitching=E2=80=9D)</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-he=
ight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transp=
arent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-c=
olor:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">2. URL to your draft on Data=
tracker: you only need to provide the file name to the example URL (e.g., =
=E2=80=9C<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-et=
h-oam-iwk/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iw=
k/</a>=E2=80=9D):=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"l=
ine-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:=
transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">3. Brief statement of objectives =
and issues to be discussed and resolved via the presentation during the mee=
ting:=C2=A0 (e.g.,</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margi=
n-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-vari=
ant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap">=E2=80=9CGather interest from the WG to work on this s=
olution=E2=80=9D)</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin=
-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-varia=
nt-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.=
38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;f=
ont-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap">4. Requested duration: (norm/default is 10 min=
): =E2=80=9C20 min=E2=80=9D</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1=
.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;=
font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:b=
aseline;white-space:pre-wrap">=C2=A0</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line=
-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tra=
nsparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">5. Speaker name: &lt;Given-name FAMI=
LY-NAME-IN-ALL-CAPS&gt; (e.g., =E2=80=9CDave SINICROPE=E2=80=9D):=C2=A0=C2=
=A0</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;m=
argin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">Thank you!</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;mar=
gin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-va=
riant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap">Dave Sinicrope</span></p><p style=3D"line-height:1.3=
8;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;fo=
nt-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:bas=
eline;white-space:pre-wrap">PALS Secretary</span></p></span><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><a href=3D"m=
ailto:david.sinicrope@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">david.sinicrope@gmail.co=
m</a></div></div>

--000000000000baff9605c5ffd0af--


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Thread-Topic: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/llvEZfxmfTZlSit45EqFx9i8k1E>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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