Subject: RE: [NAT] draft-kuniaki-nats-00.txt

From: "Bound, Jim" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:25:45 -0500

I agree with your assessment except for one point.

I think IPv6 closed or Intranets will tunnel thru the IPv4 cloud in the
U.S. using Brians 6to4 and avoid NAT completely.  So it will be IPv6
island to IPv6 island.

Also I believe we will see Asia and Europe deploy IPv6 Internet
Exchanges in 2002 (late 2001) and I am involved with that and that will
begin IPv6 at least at the edge.  The market wants transparency back and
e2e NAT is not working and breaking down.

Also second releases of IPv6 products will begin entering the market Q2
2002 and will be much more robust and we will begin to see IPv6 in fast
path on ASICs.

My point is IPv6 is moving much faster than many think if they hold a US
only focus.

regards,
/jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Kuniaki Kondo [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:50 AM
To: Bound, Jim; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [NAT] draft-kuniaki-nats-00.txt

Hello, Jim

""Bound, Jim" <[email-masked]>" (Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:35:14 -0500)
wrote:

> first my colleagues name is "Brian" not "Brain" names are important.

  Yes. I am so sorry for my mistake.

> 
> IPv6 is past experimental.  It is being deployed in Australia and
> Ireland in 6 months for wireless systems.  It will be deployed in Asia
> in one year because they simply do not have enough addresses to even
> support NAT.  Except in the U.S. the rest of the world cannot live
> without the e2e model. 

  Recently, a few IPv6 products was shipped, I know.
  However, those products did not deployed in commercial network yet.
  Especially, in Japan, we can get many IPv6 products, but those
  products are still used for experimental. In Asia, probably same.

> 
> IPv6 products are shipping.  That is not experimental.
> 
> IPv6 is also the IP protocol that will run Infiniband.  Infiniband at
a
> minimum will be used as backplane for high end systems and most likely
> to run SCSI over IP and Memory Channel over IP IMO.  

  Did you said that IPv6 will be deployed in closed network?
  If so, I agree.
  First step of deploying IPv6 probably start in closed network, just
like a
  Infiniband.
  However, it is not a target of NATS.
  NATS target is a edge network of the Internet.

> 
> IPv6 is here and real.  Just not in the U.S.   
> 
> regards,
> /jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nat mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nat

--
Kuniaki Kondo
[email-masked]

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---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:33:05 -0500

Jim, 

a) "Brain" may be incorrect but it is also flattering :-)

b) In any case I think we are on a false trail here. The argument
of non-existence and non-deployment is even stronger against NATS
than it is against IPv6.

I was personally very sad in 1994 that my AEIOU proposal was not viable, 
so I am very sympathetic to the basic idea of NATS, but I think it will
die for the same reasons.

   Brian

---

From: Kuniaki Kondo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:21:36 +0900

Hi Brian,

"Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>" (Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:33:05 -0500) 

> of non-existence and non-deployment is even stronger against NATS

  NATS products will be available on end of August according to my
  schedule. It is start point of NATS deployment.

> die for the same reasons.

  Hmm.. Now, I am estimating how the backbone routers are slow down if 
  it process the NATS packets.
  AEIOU already discussed "IP Option for Address Extentions".
  Certainly, recent backbone routers are slow down when it forward the
  IP packets which is extended for Address Extentions using IP Option.
  Because, backbone routers have to process IP Options.
  However, I already said that backbone routers are not need to process
  NATS Option. Therefore, I think that I will estimate about this case.

--
Kuniaki Kondo
[email-masked]