Subject: Re: [NSIS] Modeling of mobility?

From: Xiaoming Fu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:18:16 +0200

Hi Sung-Hyuck,

Some comments inline:

Sung-Hyuck Lee wrote:
> Hi, John, Fu, and all,
>  
> I think we need to clearly re-define how nsis(ntlp/nslp) should operate 
> with mobility and what is in-scope about mobility.

I think current NSIS charter is quite clear; we need to work with
various mobility protocols but not doing the same work in mobility
signaling.

> The NSIS is clearly different from mobility signaling, but the NSIS 
> should cooperate with mobility signaling to support seamless
> QoS service (e.g., pre-resource reservation) in IP-based radio access 
> network. In this case, the NSIS should be independent
> of any specific MIP signaling, but sometimes a mobility signaling can 
> initiate the nsis signaling (e.g, to support reservation
> during the specific time)

Here you raise two issues: whether advanced/pre- reservation is
necessary, and which can be mobility triggers for NSIS. I think
generally we are tending to pursue something to be done after mobility
signaling; it might be useful if we look at the basic requirements
imposed by mobility rather than these advanced features in the first
place. In terms of NSIS trigger, I see a routing change in the data path
caused by mobility protocols might be a reasonable source.

Thanks,
Xiaoming

> Regards,
>  
> Sung Hyuck Lee
> --------------t-------------------------------------------
>  > >[email-masked] wrote:
>  >>You may like to bring this up at the MIPv6 Signaling and Handoff 
> Optimization BOF on Wednesday, as this sounds somewhat out of scope for 
> NSIS.
>  >Well, I shall have mentioned more clearly, that doing such a 
> characterizing is not going to do MIP signaling at all, but to use the 
> route change _resulting >from_ MIP signaling (what meant by "independent 
> of any specific MIP signaling") and to signaling into IP-in-IP tunnels 
> (what meant by "IP-in-IP >encasulation/tunnel"). My thought was that if 
> NSIS finally needs to work with mobility, this can be necessary in NSIS.
> 
>  >Thanks,
>  >Xiaoming

_______________________________________________
nsis mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis

---

From: "Sung Hycuk Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:52:39 +0900

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_______________________________________________nsis mailing [email-masked]://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis

---

From: Xiaoming Fu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:03:33 +0200

Hi Sung-Hyuck,

>>> I think we need to clearly re-define how nsis(ntlp/nslp) should
>>> operate with mobility and what is in-scope about mobility.
>> 
> [shl] You're right for NSIS charter, but I guess it's not clear HOW
> NSIS SHOULD WORK WITH MOBILITY PROTOCOL. For example, (as you know)
> how to cooperate context transfer before or during handover (see
> requirement doc. 5.9.5 and framework doc 5.2.5), how to triger NSIS
> (NTLP) after handover, how to distinct a Crossover Node (CN) (how to
> ferret the CN with session ID, Flow ID and Mobility object clearly),
> etc. As Robert was mentioned in the Vienna meeting, we also need more
> pictures considering mobility (needing discussion). However, I wonder
> which pictures with mobility Robert considers in the FW doc.

If I understand Robert correctly, framework is the place to talk what 
are the building blocks & the way to link those blocks together, but HOW 
each block works internally is up to further analysis & design.

> BTW, Seamboy working group was closed now, so (according to James )
> the related issues will be deal with Mobility Research Group in IRTF.
> I think the Seamoby WG-related sentences in section 5.2.5 of
> framework doc will be need modification (although minor parts).
 >
> [shl]  In Interaction with seamless handover protocols, CT and CARD
> occur during handover or before handover,  how does NSIS work with these > protocols?

While the focus of NSIS is on-path signaling, I agree with you that 
working with SEAMOBY CT (as current charter suggests) needs more 
thoughts, :-)

Cheers,
Xiaoming

---

From: "Sung Hycuk Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:22:41 +0900

Hi Xiaoming,

> each block works internally is up to further analysis & design.

[shl] I meant that NSIS WG should clarify the issues related with mobility in
Analysis & Design, and I just wondered what Robert's big picture was in FW document;.
3GPP or 3GPP2-related issues (how does NSIS work in 3G?), or Beyond 3G? 
 If you was confused by my writing, I'm sorry that.

Regards,

Sung-HyuckžÈ¬™¨¥Šx%ŠËg²+"z×è®m¶›?ÿ0Ö'~Šàþf¢–f§þX¬¶)ß£ùìŠ