Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [dhcwg] Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) OptionsforDHCPv6

From: Brad Knowles <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:42:21 -0600

On 11/27/07, <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  Completely wrong.

My statement was with regards to most ISPs that I have experience 
with or or where we have had reports from others.

Your specific ISP was not necessarily included in that statement. 
Therefore, your single solitary counter-example does not necessarily 
disprove anything.

>  I can assure you that we do run our own NTP servers, and our customer
>  routers are pre-configured with a Name not an IP address to get to them.
>  We let our DNS servers sort out the load balancing issues (if we ever
>  get any).

You're just one ISP.  You do not comprise the whole of all ISPs on the planet.

>  It's working fine, and several hundred-thousand clients can't be wrong!

And I personally worked at AOL (tens of millions of customers) and 
the largest ISP in Belgium (over a million customers), and I've 
consulted at other ISPs around the world.  We've also had reports 
regarding a number of other ISPs around the world.

Your one counter example does not disprove our experience.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[email-masked]>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:13:12 -0000

Perhaps some other ISP's involved with the NTPWG would care to comment
on whether or not the poor practice of the past is still in place, or
being replaced with best practice (which is to install their own
servers, or reach an agreement for the use of somebody else's). 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 27 November 2007 18:42
To: Flavin,AJ,Tony,DMJ R; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [ntpwg] [dhcwg] Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP)
OptionsforDHCPv6

>  Completely wrong.

My statement was with regards to most ISPs that I have experience with
or or where we have had reports from others.

> get any).

You're just one ISP.  You do not comprise the whole of all ISPs on the
planet.

>  It's working fine, and several hundred-thousand clients can't be
wrong!

And I personally worked at AOL (tens of millions of customers) and the
largest ISP in Belgium (over a million customers), and I've consulted at
other ISPs around the world.  We've also had reports regarding a number
of other ISPs around the world.

---

From: Mark Andrews <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:30:47 +1100

They are not the only ISP that supplies time.  Optus does and
	I'm pretty sure Telstra also does.  My home box is sync'd to
	a Optus NTP server.

	Mark

> servers, or reach an agreement for the use of somebody else's).=20
> 
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:[email-masked]]=20
> Your specific ISP was not necessarily included in that statement.=20
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: [email-masked]
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From: Brad Knowles <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:14:21 -0600

>	I'm pretty sure Telstra also does.  My home box is sync'd to

I know that XS4ALL.nl also provides time servers for their clients (I 
know this because I am also the primary active member of the 
postmaster services team for python.org, which is hosted at XS4ALL), 
but elsewhere in Belgium and the Netherlands and most of continental 
Europe, I believe that kind of thing is pretty rare.  In my 
experience, it's even more rare in the less well-developed parts of 
Europe.

I believe that we have some representatives from RIPE and perhaps 
also some other registrars, registries, and other related 
organizations.  It would be interesting if we could get some data 
from them.  Failing that, I've got plenty of contacts over at RIPE, 
and I'm sure I could drop them a line.  I figure others on this list 
probably have better contacts with some of the other organizations.

We should also talk to Ask Bjorn Hansen, since he's likely to have 
contact with a lot of places around the world in his role as the 
coordinator of the pool.ntp.org project.

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From: Danny Mayer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:35:02 -0500

> servers, or reach an agreement for the use of somebody else's). 

I suspect that an ISP that is interested enough to be involved with the
NTP WG will be running their own NTP servers.

Danny

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From: Danny Mayer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:35:45 -0500

Danny