Subject: Re: [ntpwg] [ntp:hackers] Announcing the NTP Forum

From: Brian Utterback <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:07:42 -0500

Help me to understand the point. What is the charter for the new group
and how does it differ from the previous ones?

[email-masked] wrote:
> It's about time: ISC is creating an NTP Forum (http://ntpforum.isc.org) to
> directly support the Network Time Protocol (NTP) Public Services Project
> (http://support.ntp.org) and the NTP Project (http://www.ntp.org). Together
> these groups offer public education, development, documentation, issue
> reporting, maintenance, support and mailing lists.
> 
> The NTP Project's software is the world's best way to keep the correct time
> on most computers, and is the foundation of accurate network time
> synchronization. As such, it is critical to many social and technical
> functions. An improved NTP will make your life easier because it will:
> 
>     * Streamline national and international regulatory compliance
>     * Increase the accuracy of financial and other transactional records
>     * Enable more effective cooperation with criminal investigations
>     * Improve the customer service experience for customers and staff alike
>     * Reduce technical support hassles 
> 
> The NTP Project has been, to date, a 100% volunteer effort. With the growing
> popularity of NTP it is increasingly difficult to provide the level of
> support and service the community needs with a small group of volunteers.
> 
> At this point we are especially interested in individual members. We will be
> soliciting institutional members over the next few months' time, with an
> official launch of the NTP Forum in the spring of 2008. In the meantime, we
> want to encourage individuals to join, to help get us going and to help the
> many of you who have relationships with the institutions we'd like to have
> join us make sure we are in a position to deliver the value and benefits you
> expect and deserve.
> 
> Help us to give you an even better NTP - go to http://ntpforum.isc.org and
> join today! (Why today? Because if you put it off you'll forget...)
> 
> Harlan Stenn, Programme Manager
> 
> PS - we want to return the favor and help you as much as you are helping
> us. We're considering things like interoperability testing, focused
> discussion groups and implementation certifications for the forum. Let us
> know what you want - we'll listen to you as carefully in that regard as well
> as we will on NTP issues.
> _______________________________________________
> hackers mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/hackers

-- 
blu

"You've added a new disk. Do you want to replace your current
drive, protect your data from a drive failure or expand your
storage capacity?" - Disk management as it should be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Ph:877-259-7345, Em:brian.utterback-at-ess-you-enn-dot-kom
_______________________________________________
ntpwg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/ntpwg

---

From: Leif Johansson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:21:24 +0100

> [email-masked] wrote:
And while we're at it: what exactly does "1 year/3 IETF meetings for
person A"
at USD 9,000 a piece buy me?

    Cheers Leif

---

From: Harlan Stenn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:13:01 +0000

> > and how does it differ from the previous ones?

Did Steve answer this one sufficiently?

The bottom line is that we don't have the resources we need to "make it
all go", and the NTP Forum is the best way I know of to generate the
money to pay for the things that need to be done that we have been
unable to get properly handled by volunteers alone.

> at USD 9,000 a piece buy me?

Somebody to attend 3 IETF meetings.  As it stands, I (for one) cannot
afford the time off work, the travel, or the hotel and other related
expenses.  There is enough work to do in the IETF NTP WG that there is,
from everything I have seen and heard, plenty for two more members to
do.  There are 2 "project" slots for attending IETF meetings.  One is
for me, the other is for the person I will now describe.

If the NTP Forum can generate enough money from its members, it can pay
to have people attend the meetings.  There are separate project items in
the list for what would, in effect, be to additionally pay somebody to
work on the NTP WG.  For example, if the Forum had $34k, I could pay
somebody (*not* me) to do a basic level of preparation and effort on the
various documents and related work for the IETF NTP WG and also show up
at the meetings.  For $59k, I could get somebody to "double" those
efforts and show up at meetings too.

If somebody were to visit the ISC Donations page and say "Here is a
donation for enough money to cover NTP Forum Project X (or projects X,
Y, and Z)" then that is what the money would be spent on.

If we get enough members in the NTP Forum that our overhead is covered
(my time, some time for our overstretched webmaster and postmaster, plus
equipment, techincal and office support, rent, network access, and
various other "real life" items) and we have extra funds, we will start
turning on those listed projects.

If you want to have a "say" as to what projects should be funded ahead
of what other projects, then become a member and use your vote.

If you agree *or* disagree with any of this, please join and vote
accordingly.

2 years ago I went on sabbatical.  During the first year, I worked on
the NTP Project full-time.  During the 2nd year I spent about half-time
working on getting the NTP Forum set up, and the rest of my time working
on NTP (OK, I was actually working pretty much full-time on the NTP
Forum setup, and then working full-time on NTP as well).

We can go back to the "good old days" where it took 3-5 years to get a
release of NTP out the door, and *months* to get bugs fixed (assuming
somebody remembered to work on them), to mention just two aspects.  Or
new volunteers can step up and take over.  Or somebody else (besides me
or the NTP Forum) could pay me to keep working on this.  Or we can find
a way to generate the resources that almost everybody agrees are needed
to keep NTP vibrant.

Leif, did I answer your question in there?

H

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From: Harlan Stenn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:16:49 +0000

Folks,

I have several windows up on my machine.

I had intended to post my response from my @isc.org account (a different
window) and instead posted it from my @ntp.org account.

Sorry about that - I'll do my best to watch the hat I'm wearing when I
post.

H