From nobody Fri May 1 09:25:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E141A8AA7; Fri, 1 May 2015 09:25:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3H8rgDNuL-zb; Fri, 1 May 2015 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x233.google.com (mail-lb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E46D21A8935; Fri, 1 May 2015 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbcga7 with SMTP id ga7so67765447lbc.1; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+Hyroio9jW8Yp9wMzG6B8BEDj3M5LTFpnhVkHKDsk8Q=; b=cv0n7NNgJwBgQfuuFVqC7mAUhnJ01FhcsA4l/hQW4wJaf82PQfs1CCFlLvsB4iWSD0 /2OxzRD3LvRCiTLaEE7sp/IrEE0IZz9V9S1HQXv/SpV3igUnzmsbbOYtoQqFBi92Lfeu UxcEG/zwBUkCW82v+/GkPShQZJ+F0vj8Lb8bbkyBsRnrr7cu5YpP8fXD2i5qUf2v1+Rz shWX7x9blUv8RaL7AltI2w48BzxzyJ2r+SGLwba2gwatKffs9HNAPiXbPussY5pQ58E8 W/pjVGJoSluo8LixZNWawHMWWYRq43NnjTB17L1qVd3LAQVaWK+XU2T8x/Wgt1zqyDL/ 0Xbg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.25.167 with SMTP id d7mr8895745lag.108.1430497540452; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Fri, 1 May 2015 09:25:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <55358764.9080406@queuefull.net> <553FF2FF.6020709@queuefull.net> <79E0CCDC-7375-49A8-B61D-4F3001D04CE8@cisco.com> <0145A9DE-93E2-4203-9486-606F8899A00E@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 11:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Benson Schliesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "Paul Quinn \(paulq\)" , "draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" , "nvo3-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVO3 WG Adoption of draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-04 X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 16:25:46 -0000 Hi Benson, Thank you for your kind mail. Please see inline. Regards, Behcet On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > Hi, Behcet. > > Still writing as an individual: > > After reading your email (quoted below) several times, I suspect that you > don't understand the way layering works. I am willing to learn new things if I missed something. It is always possible to apologize if I offended someone. I believe here there is no offense, it is all technical. > I'm not sure if this is just in the > context of what NVO3 is doing or in the general case, but I think it is well > understood by others that have been contributing here. It's up to them to > decide how much they want to respond to your questions. But I personally > don't have the time to provide you this education. > I am concerned that drafts are being accepted with few or almost no technical discussions. If there has been some discussions on the list where my concern has been addressed, please provide me the link, I am going to check. I printed the draft and read it again. One thing is they use next protocol not protocol field as you said. Maybe they are trying to justify why they need different protocol numbers than already assigned by IANA. > Now writing as co-chair: > > You can certainly ask people to help you understand and/or explain their > drafts. I'm very tolerant of open discussion on the list as long as it is > constructive toward the WG goals. > > NVO3 has adopted GUE and VXLAN-GPE, and is in process of adopting GENEVE > pending an IPR statement from one of the authors. These are potentially > implemented as overlay data plane encaps. > > As a WG chair I am guided by WG consensus. The consensus seems to favor > these protocols as WG work items. I'm not yet aware of any specific issues > that need to be addressed by the authors. > Let me say this, sorry Benson, no offense to you but in this list I hardly see chair reviews, unlike most other WGs. I noticed that the issue tracker has never been used in nvo3. Once this draft is submitted as WG draft, I am going to be happy to provide my technical comments on the issue tracker maybe lead the way. > -Benson > > > > On Thursday, April 30, 2015, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Benson Schliesser >> wrote: >> > Hi, Behcet. Just speaking as an individual: I understand the purpose of >> > GPE >> > as being the addition of a protocol field to VXLAN. >> >> This is where I have concerns. >> Protocol field is defined for IP header. Ethernet also has a similar >> field (called Ether Type). >> In RFC 7348, it is clearly defined that the next protocol is UDP >> (value 17) for VXLAN. >> Protocol field values are defined in >> http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml >> >> Yes, there is IPv4 (value 4) and IPv6 (value 41). Just like Ethernet >> Ether Type has values, I think someone mentioned it. >> >> GPE draft is introducing another registry for the protocol field,. >> >> There must be some reason why they defined protocol field only for >> IPv4/v6 not e.g. for UDP. >> >> VXLAN is UDP encapsulation, it is not a different protocol. >> >> It seems like Paul has different opinion on these, because I noticed >> he added protocol field to his NSH draft also. >> >> Benson, is it OK to ask from Paul why? >> Or you want to ban me from asking these types of technical questions? >> >> >> > It is not specifically a >> > IPv4/v6 attribute, but more general. >> >> Please see above. >> > If you don't understand the general >> > case of how or why v4 and v6 are multiplexed with the lower-layer >> > protocol >> > field then I don't think that's specifically germane to the nvo3 mailing >> > list. >> >> I made my point above, please see above. >> > >> > As for comparing GUE and VXLAN-GPE, that seems like a fair discussion to >> > have. But I don't currently see any especially constructive way to do >> > that. >> > >> >> Can you please then explain it? How are these two compared? >> I am saying they are different things. GUE is currently being >> discussed in Intarea list. >> >> Regards, >> >> Behcet >> > Cheers, >> > -Benson >> > >> > >> > On Wednesday, April 29, 2015, Behcet Sarikaya >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Is gpe talking about encapsulation of inner packets, i.e. data plane? >> >> If yes then it is like GUE. Then one would ask why do we need another >> >> GUE? >> >> >> >> Looking at the abstract which says >> >> >> >> changes to the VXLAN header >> >> >> >> I think the answer is no. >> >> >> >> I would understand a few flags like OAM that you defined as extensions >> >> to >> >> VXLAN. >> >> >> >> But I have trouble understanding next protocol field. >> >> I think VXLAN encapsulation does not need next protocol field because >> >> what is being encapsulated is completely defined in RFC7348. >> >> >> >> If in the future the need arises that something like NSH also needs to >> >> be defined then the best way to do is to.define RFC7348bis and add it >> >> there. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Behcet >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) >> >> wrote: >> >> > Regarding Joe Touch's comment about explicitly NOT indicating IPv4 vs >> >> > IPv6 >> >> > in the Next Protocol (only indicating IP), I don't see what the >> >> > advantages >> >> > of doing this are. It seems more philosophical. >> >> > >> >> > By indicating IPv4/IPv6 in the next protocol, it allows >> >> > implementations >> >> > to >> >> > only make one decision before parsing the IP header. By doing two >> >> > steps >> >> > NP->IP->IPv4/v6, it adds one more parsing step to the implementation, >> >> > for >> >> > no gain that I can think of. >> >> > >> >> > As Diego pointed out earlier, there is already a precedent in >> >> > Ethernet >> >> > for >> >> > indicating the IP version in the next protocol from the layer below >> >> > it. >> >> > >> >> > - Larry >> >> > >> >> > On 4/29/15 11:36 AM, "Behcet Sarikaya" >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Paul Quinn (paulq) >> >> >>wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On Apr 29, 2015, at 12:01 PM, Behcet Sarikaya >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Behcet Sarikaya >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> Hi Benson, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Joe Touch wrote this on intarea list: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> There is no reason for having the GUE header differentiate >> >> >>>>> between >> >> >>>>> payload=IPv4 and payload=IPv6. The IP version is addressed by the >> >> >>>>> version field of the IP header. If GUE encapsulates both type of >> >> >>>>> IP >> >> >>>>>the >> >> >>>>> same way (and it should), it should NOT differentiate between >> >> >>>>> them >> >> >>>>> in >> >> >>>>> its (GUE) header. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> I think the same applies to gpe header. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Plus the issues on the "NSH" protocol. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Curiously if you look at the nsh draft, Section 3.2, >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> NSH Base Header >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> also has a next protocol field with the same encoding. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Anybody understands what is going on? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Yes, the concept is that you don't know what you want to carry via >> >> >>> GPE. >> >> >>> Today it might be v4, v6, ethernet, NSH or something else. >> >> >>> Tomorrow, >> >> >>>who knows? But more importantly, we need to enable that stacking to >> >> >>>occur. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Please convince not me but Joe Touch on v4 and v6 thing. >> >> >> >> >> >>> The format of NSH is orthogonal -- as is the format of Ethernet for >> >> >>>that matter. From an outer header (i.e. VXLAN-GPE or other) you >> >> >>> need >> >> >>> to >> >> >>>be able to identify the inner protocol. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>Are we talking about VM-to-VM communication? I think that is what >> >> >>VXLAN was designed for. >> >> >> >> >> >>Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >>Behcet >> >> >>> Paul >> >> >>> >> >> > From nobody Fri May 1 10:22:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067A81A897E for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YOIPHVFU0Fcw for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com (mail-qc0-f169.google.com [209.85.216.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61EDD1A8898 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 10:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcrf4 with SMTP id f4so46152710qcr.0 for ; Fri, 01 May 2015 10:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bEUbLlL3GeNL8pOebAPA4wowfCs6gsFJ03q39ZpK6EA=; b=XAEsdPWamP+rnh2rMxB+LPv0GYFurh860Uga2xX8Uoew5LCpsu5FhBauQpnfrT2pzh ivSgSvgqVQ4Dea2Yg2yv7g8CZQekJczI5ZGCMvele3hG8zjLbpTGo6WggjQ3lPGxB9XS nB4A6B0vbPrHWpZ/pXDqYJ435AvZaEKMp6PgcYDdh0jToTG21KVFFgCDFmmo0rGvmsns wiM+16J8lEoUITUhJyWsiBbFqoTxnIGKkZH1fYyf6sirtlhmXor/UPcx1zXT+/1l6pr2 vSB6ZC3O9+UwFl4j52ZWjzuvt+KAAmc6x7eggNwE2Ie7vv1E6G2iD1p1AIdL9sZICZ7I jGUg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkp+ECpTJGmCyGqHwTWn8XoNA9iXa6pv9N5BcQ6EUS6PultVeorDjxSUXD1wnveZjUJ3fJW X-Received: by 10.55.31.218 with SMTP id n87mr20453071qkh.99.1430500948412; Fri, 01 May 2015 10:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desolation-2.local (68-115-154-254.static.hckr.nc.charter.com. [68.115.154.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j81sm3756349qge.33.2015.05.01.10.22.27 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 01 May 2015 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5543B651.6090802@queuefull.net> Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 13:22:25 -0400 From: Benson Schliesser User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sarikaya@ieee.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: [nvo3] Issue discussion in NVO3 (was Re: NVO3 WG Adoption of draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-04) X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 17:22:31 -0000 Hi, Behcet - Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > Let me say this, sorry Benson, no offense to you but in this list I > hardly see chair reviews, unlike most other WGs. Just to be clear: I'm not offended. Nor do I intend to offend anybody else. Meaningful and constructive discussion of ideas is always welcome. I'll take into consideration your comment about providing chairs' reviews. Typically when I call for Adoption my message will indicate that we believe consensus exists. And prior to submission to the IESG both Matthew and I perform careful reviews with the authors, both for editorial purposes as well as to ensure that the draft accurately captures consensus. In between those events, I tend to allow the WG to develop its own consensus rather than influence it. But I will reconsider whether or not the WG would also benefit from more of my technical thoughts during development. Thank you for this feedback. > I noticed that the issue tracker has never been used in nvo3. > Once this draft is submitted as WG draft, I am going to be happy to > provide my technical comments on the issue tracker maybe lead the way. I don't have a strong opinion about whether the Issue Tracker is helpful or not. I suspect that it will not add any benefit to NVO3 at this time, but I'm willing to reconsider that view. That being said, whether issues are described in the Tracker or on the mailing list my expectation is that the issue will be meaningful and clearly described. Merely claiming that there is an issue is not adequate by itself. Also, an individual's failure to understand something does not necessarily qualify as an issue. I would encourage all participants to consider whether or not their feedback is a material issue, that can be clearly described, which would result in constructive discussion. If not, then that feedback may not need to consume WG attention. This is true regardless of whether the issue is posted in Tracker, on the list, etc. -Benson From nobody Fri May 1 18:01:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDFB1A00A7; Fri, 1 May 2015 18:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPli7wj9ggPB; Fri, 1 May 2015 18:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672B31A008F; Fri, 1 May 2015 18:01:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 18:01:10 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 01:01:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN Authors : Paul Quinn Rajeev Manur Larry Kreeger Darrel Lewis Fabio Maino Michael Smith Puneet Agarwal Lucy Yong Xiaohu Xu Uri Elzur Pankaj Garg David Melman Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2015-05-01 Abstract: This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit versioning. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat May 2 15:36:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4371A9107 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 15:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XbZXWm-BDL1y for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 15:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from door.sniff.de (door.sniff.de [IPv6:2001:6f8:94f:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700E11A9106 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost.sniff.de [127.0.0.1]) by door.sniff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28DB2AA0F; Sat, 2 May 2015 22:36:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 15:36:42 -0700 From: Marc Binderberger To: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe@tools.ietf.org Message-ID: <20150502153642709728.b0f36afc@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.16 Archived-At: Cc: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 22:36:49 -0000 Hello authors of VxLAN-gpe, thank you for moving forward with this. Few comments: when reading the draft I found the use of "VXLAN GPE" inconsistent, which makes it a bit difficult to read. Sometimes "VXLAN GPE" seems to refer to the superset, i.e. VxLAN RFC 7348 plus the new extensions. Sometimes "VXLAN GPE" seems to refer to the new extensions only. The UDP port comments are a good example: 5. Backward Compatibility 5.1. VXLAN VTEP to VXLAN GPE VTEP [...] 5.2. VXLAN GPE VTEP to VXLAN VTEP [...] reading this section a VXLAN GPE VTEP can send and receive 4789/udp packets. So "VXLAN GPE" means the superset here. But in section ... 4. Outer Encapsulations [...] Destination UDP Port: IANA has assigned the value 4790 for the VXLAN GPE UDP port. This well-known destination port is used when sending VXLAN GPE encapsulated packets. ... you mean the extension features when talking about "VXLAN GPE" because 4790/udp is not used for VxLAN (?). I think section 3.2. is the cleanest description regarding the udp port value: 3.2. Multi Protocol Support [...] P Bit: Flag bit 5 is defined as the Next Protocol bit. The P bit MUST be set to 1 to indicate the presence of the 8 bit next protocol field. When P=1, the destination UDP port MUST be 4790. P = 0 indicates that the payload MUST conform to VXLAN as defined in [RFC7348], including destination UDP port. Maybe you can modify the section 4 statement to say (again) the 4790 port is used for P=1. Or reference to section 3.2 ? Btw, you mention "payload" in the quote above. I understand what you mean but first stumbled as I would name "payload" what is underneath the VxLAN-gpe header, i.e. the inner frame. You mean the payload of the outer IP packet. One more nitpick: section 5 is named "Backward Compatibility" but has a sub-section "5.4. VXLAN GPE and Encapsulated IP Header Fields". This seems more a compatibility to LISP than VxLAN? To summarize: I found the assignment of a new UDP port on one hand and the discussion about "compatibility" on the other hand a bit confusing because I think they contradict. You are not compatible when you need a new UDP port, IMHO. Maybe describing VxLAN-gpe as a "new" encapsulation, with 4790/udp port and P must be 1. Then use one section to explain how your design choices make implementation re-use of VxLAN feasible? Well, just my $0.02. :-) Thanks & Regards, Marc On Fri, 01 May 2015 18:01:10 -0700, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working > Group of the IETF. > > Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN > Authors : Paul Quinn > Rajeev Manur > Larry Kreeger > Darrel Lewis > Fabio Maino > Michael Smith > Puneet Agarwal > Lucy Yong > Xiaohu Xu > Uri Elzur > Pankaj Garg > David Melman > Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2015-05-01 > > Abstract: > This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network > (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new > capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, > administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit > versioning. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Sun May 3 20:19:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DD11A0032; Sun, 3 May 2015 20:19:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yf5ABCu-N4aL; Sun, 3 May 2015 20:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7611A1A002F; Sun, 3 May 2015 20:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSC14071; Mon, 04 May 2015 03:19:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 4 May 2015 04:19:24 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 11:19:19 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip Thread-Index: AQHQhDAYoLZIFwke90qEGncpXxc1v51nAPgAgAQl8XA= Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 03:19:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 03:19:31 -0000 Hi Joe, I'm wondering whether your proposal as below is also applicable to other UD= P-based encapsulation approaches which have not yet considered doing fragme= ntation on the tunnel layer, such as GENEVE, VXLAN-GPE, GRE-in-UDP and NSH-= UDP. Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 3:48 AM > To: Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >=20 > Hi, all, >=20 > Have you considered GUE as an encapsulation layer? >=20 > Encapsulating anything in UDP directly has a number of hazards, including > support for at-rate fragmentation, IPv4 ID generation, etc., that GUE is = intended > to address. >=20 > Joe >=20 > On 5/1/2015 9:58 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > Forwarded with permission. > > > > Thanks, > > Donald > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: *Donald Eastlake* > > > Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:26 AM > > Subject: Re: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip > > To: Mingui Zhang > > > > > > Hi Mingui, > > > > Thanks for these comments! See below. > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Mingui Zhang > > wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I read the document. It's comprehensive and well written. Below, sever= al > comments for your information. > >> > >> 1. It's not clear how the ports IPs are associated with the ports= ? Maybe, > we can add some words to explain that they can be got from DHCP or manual > configuration? Or we just say it is out the scope of this document. > > > > Yes, they need to be configured. Could be DHCP or manual or maybe some > > sort of orchestration thing... Seems reasonable to mention this in the > > draft. > > > >> 2. Is it helpful to add a reference topology? Terminologies, such= as IP > tunnel, port IPs, RBridges can be put onto this figure. A walk-through ex= ample > based on this reference topology can be used to explain how the IP tunnel= is set > up, how does a TRILL Data packet get encapsulated/decapsulated and > transported in the IP tunnel. I think this would be educational. > > > > A few more network diagrams would probably be helpful. If you look at > > the minutes from the Dallas TRILL WG meeting, the suggestion of having > > a couple of example packets was supported... > > > >> 3. Both IP and TRILL have specified BFD. Since TRILL is dependent= on IP > in TRILL-over-IP, it's unnecessary to have both TRILL and IP interact wit= h BFD. It's > best to assert TRILL-over-IP will have the IP interact with BFD. Please r= efer to > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5882#section-4.4 > > > > Well, if you are only going to use one then I agree with the section > > you reference in RFC 5882 and you should do BFD over IP. But that > > doesn't check the TRILL stack, just the IP and lower stacks. So we > > could recommend just using IP BFD but I don't think we should try to > > prohibit people from also using BFD over TRILL on the link. > > > >> 4. Is the IP link in this document "a single link (physical, or a= secure > tunnel such as IPsec)"? Then, we can require the TTL "MUST be set to the > maximum on transmit, and checked to be equal to the maximum value on > reception (and the packet dropped if this is not the case)." See also RFC= 5880 > Section 9. > > > > I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the communication > > between two TRILL IP ports being multiple IP hops. Even if IPsec is in > > use, it could be integrated with the TRILL over IP port at one end but > > at the other end, the IPsec implementation could be integrated with a > > firewall a couple of hops from the RBridge... > > > >> 5. There are six tiny typos marked in the attached doc. > > > > OK. We'll fix this up in the next version. > > > > Maybe you should post these comments, or some of them, to the TRILL WG > > mailing list. It would be good if there was more discussion of drafts > > there. Or if it OK with you, I could just forward your comments and my > > responses to the list... > > > > Thanks, > > Donald > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell= ) > > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > > > > > >> Thanks, > >> Mingui > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > trill mailing list > > trill@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > trill mailing list > trill@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill From nobody Mon May 4 09:13:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96171A6F11; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wxv_mRuLQUKV; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 730E11A1AB8; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.8] (pool-71-103-148-202.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.103.148.202]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t44GCUg9011597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 4 May 2015 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 09:12:29 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 16:13:19 -0000 On 5/3/2015 8:19 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I'm wondering whether your proposal as below is also applicable to > other UDP-based encapsulation approaches which have not yet considered > doing fragmentation on the tunnel layer, such as GENEVE, VXLAN-GPE, > GRE-in-UDP and NSH-UDP. Again: We know of at least four things that tunnels need that IP-in-UDP ignores: - stronger checksums - fragmentation support - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or to measure MTUs) - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) I haven't scrubbed GUE to ensure that all four are addressed, but it may be more than the above, and certainly it's important not to start from scratch needlessly. Joe > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 3:48 AM >> To: Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> Hi, all, >> >> Have you considered GUE as an encapsulation layer? >> >> Encapsulating anything in UDP directly has a number of hazards, including >> support for at-rate fragmentation, IPv4 ID generation, etc., that GUE is intended >> to address. >> >> Joe >> >> On 5/1/2015 9:58 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >>> Forwarded with permission. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Donald >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: *Donald Eastlake* > >>> Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:26 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>> To: Mingui Zhang >> > >>> >>> Hi Mingui, >>> >>> Thanks for these comments! See below. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Mingui Zhang >> > wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I read the document. It's comprehensive and well written. Below, several >> comments for your information. >>>> >>>> 1. It's not clear how the ports IPs are associated with the ports? Maybe, >> we can add some words to explain that they can be got from DHCP or manual >> configuration? Or we just say it is out the scope of this document. >>> >>> Yes, they need to be configured. Could be DHCP or manual or maybe some >>> sort of orchestration thing... Seems reasonable to mention this in the >>> draft. >>> >>>> 2. Is it helpful to add a reference topology? Terminologies, such as IP >> tunnel, port IPs, RBridges can be put onto this figure. A walk-through example >> based on this reference topology can be used to explain how the IP tunnel is set >> up, how does a TRILL Data packet get encapsulated/decapsulated and >> transported in the IP tunnel. I think this would be educational. >>> >>> A few more network diagrams would probably be helpful. If you look at >>> the minutes from the Dallas TRILL WG meeting, the suggestion of having >>> a couple of example packets was supported... >>> >>>> 3. Both IP and TRILL have specified BFD. Since TRILL is dependent on IP >> in TRILL-over-IP, it's unnecessary to have both TRILL and IP interact with BFD. It's >> best to assert TRILL-over-IP will have the IP interact with BFD. Please refer to >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5882#section-4.4 >>> >>> Well, if you are only going to use one then I agree with the section >>> you reference in RFC 5882 and you should do BFD over IP. But that >>> doesn't check the TRILL stack, just the IP and lower stacks. So we >>> could recommend just using IP BFD but I don't think we should try to >>> prohibit people from also using BFD over TRILL on the link. >>> >>>> 4. Is the IP link in this document "a single link (physical, or a secure >> tunnel such as IPsec)"? Then, we can require the TTL "MUST be set to the >> maximum on transmit, and checked to be equal to the maximum value on >> reception (and the packet dropped if this is not the case)." See also RFC 5880 >> Section 9. >>> >>> I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the communication >>> between two TRILL IP ports being multiple IP hops. Even if IPsec is in >>> use, it could be integrated with the TRILL over IP port at one end but >>> at the other end, the IPsec implementation could be integrated with a >>> firewall a couple of hops from the RBridge... >>> >>>> 5. There are six tiny typos marked in the attached doc. >>> >>> OK. We'll fix this up in the next version. >>> >>> Maybe you should post these comments, or some of them, to the TRILL WG >>> mailing list. It would be good if there was more discussion of drafts >>> there. Or if it OK with you, I could just forward your comments and my >>> responses to the list... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Donald >>> ============================= >>> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >>> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com >>> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mingui >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> trill mailing list >>> trill@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> trill mailing list >> trill@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill From nobody Mon May 4 09:14:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63181A88B3 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rAiA6F9_O4_N for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4CD81A8A29 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.27) by SN1PR0501MB1757.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.154.19; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000 Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) by SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) with mapi id 15.01.0154.018; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000 From: Santosh P K To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhoMzEknWHHNqr0WZplypYqzrJZ1r/VfQ Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.10] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1757; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1757; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1757; x-forefront-prvs: 05669A7924 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377454003)(377424004)(51704005)(13464003)(53754006)(62966003)(77156002)(74316001)(99286002)(2656002)(87936001)(2950100001)(122556002)(2900100001)(106116001)(76176999)(54356999)(50986999)(2351001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(15975445007)(230783001)(40100003)(5001960100002)(2501003)(92566002)(110136002)(86362001)(107886002)(76576001)(46102003)(33656002)(66066001)(102836002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1757; H:SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 May 2015 16:13:54.0613 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB1757 Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 16:14:15 -0000 SGVsbG8gQWxsLA0KICAgV2UgaGF2ZSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgbmV3IEJGRCBmb3IgVlhMQU4gZHJhZnQg UGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyBhbmQgZ2V0IGJhY2sgdG8gdXMgd2l0aCB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzLiANCg0K VGhhbmtzDQpTYW50b3NoIFAgSyANCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBG cm9tOiBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0 Zi5vcmddDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTWF5IDA0LCAyMDE1IDk6MjkgUE0NCj4gVG86IEJhc2ls IFNhamk7IFNhbnRvc2ggUCBLOyBTdWRhcnNhbiBQYXJhZ2lyaSBNb2hhbjsgU2FudG9zaCBQIEs7 IEJhc2lsIFNhamk7DQo+IFN1ZGFyc2FuIFBhcmFnaXJpIE1vaGFuDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IE5ldyBW ZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtc3BhbGxhZ2F0dGktYmZkLXZ4bGFuLTAwLnR4 dA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IEEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBkcmFmdC1zcGFsbGFnYXR0aS1iZmQt dnhsYW4tMDAudHh0DQo+IGhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgU2FudG9z aCBQYWxsYWdhdHRpIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYNCj4gcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCj4gDQo+ IE5hbWU6CQlkcmFmdC1zcGFsbGFnYXR0aS1iZmQtdnhsYW4NCj4gUmV2aXNpb246CTAwDQo+IFRp dGxlOgkJQkZEIGZvciBWWExBTg0KPiBEb2N1bWVudCBkYXRlOgkyMDE1LTA1LTA0DQo+IEdyb3Vw OgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQo+IFBhZ2VzOgkJOQ0KPiBVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAg aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LXNwYWxsYWdhdHRpLWJm ZC12eGxhbi0NCj4gMDAudHh0DQo+IFN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2Vy LmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1zcGFsbGFnYXR0aS1iZmQtdnhsYW4vDQo+IEh0bWxpemVkOiAg ICAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtc3BhbGxhZ2F0dGktYmZkLXZ4 bGFuLTAwDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQo+ICAgIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGVzY3JpYmVz IHVzZSBvZiBCaWRpcmVjdGlvbmFsIEZvcndhcmRpbmcgRGV0ZWN0aW9uDQo+ICAgIChCRkQpIHBy b3RvY29sIGZvciBWWExBTiAuIENvbW1lbnRzIG9uIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGRpcmVj dGVkDQo+ICAgIHRvIG52bzNAaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNl IG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUg b2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbg0KPiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUg YXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQN Cg0K From nobody Mon May 4 13:39:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D4C1B2AF5; Mon, 4 May 2015 13:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EBdfUSrjrEO7; Mon, 4 May 2015 13:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22d.google.com (mail-lb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C9461B2AE5; Mon, 4 May 2015 13:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbqq2 with SMTP id qq2so113660867lbb.3; Mon, 04 May 2015 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=add0lHRgFGZGKXL8srK/vgHwML8IuV5sL31ehqespPk=; b=cfoCnfnAHnGbfrDNJ7/+9dp1kRSkKQeqcu0NuHC3PBP6ESZfT1cnTrxnyqL5yo4LNQ r1ZEK+HNMiUbPxV9P1v8/fZjmf4Gjjxawzt7wfYQZsUTcE0b7SMd4fhbVXVB0LhWrOwh 0mDGSBiuqKgBfxWiTHsckApSB1PbZWsFcIYoWLEtXZAGkrUhBPeq9/ZtZxsjVfRk1I6Y 6MtorCtekWvR6e4sq14pBlaOx+7SAgAurrfjx25B0p1gqAYNLmbOHzDruQyTxXd4UH0f +Y3fFjnVDL+3DB6+JHn3PzFfdSHJctGIx3P9nGa3aJDGtjrGuDStKzRZTIsiLXZnBO5Y 1dkg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.44.225 with SMTP id h1mr20923652lam.5.1430771961433; Mon, 04 May 2015 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Mon, 4 May 2015 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 15:39:21 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Xuxiaohu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Joe Touch , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Int-area] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 20:39:25 -0000 Hi Xiaohu, Joe, On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I'm wondering whether your proposal as below is also applicable to other UDP-based encapsulation approaches which have not yet considered doing fragmentation on the tunnel layer, such as GENEVE, VXLAN-GPE, GRE-in-UDP and NSH-UDP. > This is a very good question. Let me give draft links below for Joe in case he can not find them: VXLAN-GPE: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 GENEVE: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-gross-geneve-02.txt Regards, Behcet > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 3:48 AM >> To: Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> Hi, all, >> >> Have you considered GUE as an encapsulation layer? >> >> Encapsulating anything in UDP directly has a number of hazards, including >> support for at-rate fragmentation, IPv4 ID generation, etc., that GUE is intended >> to address. >> >> Joe >> >> On 5/1/2015 9:58 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >> > Forwarded with permission. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Donald >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > From: *Donald Eastlake* > >> > Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:26 AM >> > Subject: Re: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> > To: Mingui Zhang > > > >> > >> > Hi Mingui, >> > >> > Thanks for these comments! See below. >> > >> > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Mingui Zhang > > > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I read the document. It's comprehensive and well written. Below, several >> comments for your information. >> >> >> >> 1. It's not clear how the ports IPs are associated with the ports? Maybe, >> we can add some words to explain that they can be got from DHCP or manual >> configuration? Or we just say it is out the scope of this document. >> > >> > Yes, they need to be configured. Could be DHCP or manual or maybe some >> > sort of orchestration thing... Seems reasonable to mention this in the >> > draft. >> > >> >> 2. Is it helpful to add a reference topology? Terminologies, such as IP >> tunnel, port IPs, RBridges can be put onto this figure. A walk-through example >> based on this reference topology can be used to explain how the IP tunnel is set >> up, how does a TRILL Data packet get encapsulated/decapsulated and >> transported in the IP tunnel. I think this would be educational. >> > >> > A few more network diagrams would probably be helpful. If you look at >> > the minutes from the Dallas TRILL WG meeting, the suggestion of having >> > a couple of example packets was supported... >> > >> >> 3. Both IP and TRILL have specified BFD. Since TRILL is dependent on IP >> in TRILL-over-IP, it's unnecessary to have both TRILL and IP interact with BFD. It's >> best to assert TRILL-over-IP will have the IP interact with BFD. Please refer to >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5882#section-4.4 >> > >> > Well, if you are only going to use one then I agree with the section >> > you reference in RFC 5882 and you should do BFD over IP. But that >> > doesn't check the TRILL stack, just the IP and lower stacks. So we >> > could recommend just using IP BFD but I don't think we should try to >> > prohibit people from also using BFD over TRILL on the link. >> > >> >> 4. Is the IP link in this document "a single link (physical, or a secure >> tunnel such as IPsec)"? Then, we can require the TTL "MUST be set to the >> maximum on transmit, and checked to be equal to the maximum value on >> reception (and the packet dropped if this is not the case)." See also RFC 5880 >> Section 9. >> > >> > I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the communication >> > between two TRILL IP ports being multiple IP hops. Even if IPsec is in >> > use, it could be integrated with the TRILL over IP port at one end but >> > at the other end, the IPsec implementation could be integrated with a >> > firewall a couple of hops from the RBridge... >> > >> >> 5. There are six tiny typos marked in the attached doc. >> > >> > OK. We'll fix this up in the next version. >> > >> > Maybe you should post these comments, or some of them, to the TRILL WG >> > mailing list. It would be good if there was more discussion of drafts >> > there. Or if it OK with you, I could just forward your comments and my >> > responses to the list... >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Donald >> > ============================= >> > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >> > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com >> > >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mingui >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > trill mailing list >> > trill@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> trill mailing list >> trill@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Mon May 4 14:01:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5AA01B2B29 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:01:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2nN2VqozCWGH for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22b.google.com (mail-lb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23E7E1A8888 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbuc2 with SMTP id uc2so114034520lbb.2 for ; Mon, 04 May 2015 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=OyQsvA3RdBv4HZr5h3J9ym5lVtLX3SO07q0W1wezsL4=; b=d2ovX7idLaS6jbPWZDLwpsWQI7IVDBF7cF6+dwqUNJqZijToDHPLqvU3kFUteFs42V BA6cAFofYNFjpMT1472BBN8sp10UhvwTKmLyuEWdl9JS34kwpPBw7n5L5cWZhBYTyA0L SRTSsgu5NWAd1kggI88Jig0U+lEc1YBb8gaq7vjFQPGIJZ0QjhmW7G3V7tgW+HMHDm0H o6TCURZOkxOKz16FCFvzw7CDheXTH5Z2LLtvez7N6xp097Jt5MQY2SWo1Lyarp4xBo5x xlLziqbXlmSyTTqqSmbUxBfynMI0DnmCrj/mio2hvDQpKSTgEJABLz3REGDW0NvNiSk/ rj6g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.19.132 with SMTP id f4mr16696202lae.115.1430773299534; Mon, 04 May 2015 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 16:01:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 21:01:43 -0000 Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) I think I now understand better this draft. The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses VM-to-VM communication. In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk about VMs. I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you can convince me? If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. Regards, Behcet On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN > Authors : Paul Quinn > Rajeev Manur > Larry Kreeger > Darrel Lewis > Fabio Maino > Michael Smith > Puneet Agarwal > Lucy Yong > Xiaohu Xu > Uri Elzur > Pankaj Garg > David Melman > Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2015-05-01 > > Abstract: > This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network > (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new > capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, > administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit > versioning. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 15:28:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36941A89A2 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0301MB0695; H:BY2PR0301MB0696.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.onmicrosoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 May 2015 22:28:16.2414 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0301MB0695 Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zia-nvo3-dist-arch-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 22:28:36 -0000 SGkgRm9sa3MsDQoNCkkgYW0gcHJvcG9zaW5nIGEgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGZv ciB0aGUgY3VzdG9tZXJzIHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgY2xvdWQgdGhhdCBpcyBtb3JlIHNjYWxhYmxlIGFu ZCBlZmZpY2llbnQuIA0KDQpJIHdvdWxkIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cyBvbiBpdC4N Cg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCk9zYW1hDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBp bnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmdd IA0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAxNywgMjAxNSA0OjQxIFBNDQpUbzogT3NhbWEgWmlhOyBP c2FtYSBaaWENClN1YmplY3Q6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtemlh LW52bzMtZGlzdC1hcmNoLTAwLnR4dA0KDQoNCkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBkcmFmdC16 aWEtbnZvMy1kaXN0LWFyY2gtMDAudHh0IGhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQg YnkgT3NhbWEgWmlhIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KTmFtZToJ CWRyYWZ0LXppYS1udm8zLWRpc3QtYXJjaA0KUmV2aXNpb246CTAwDQpUaXRsZToJCURpc3RyaWJ1 dGVkIEFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBmb3IgQ3VzdG9tZXIgQWNjZXNzIHRvIENsb3VkDQpEb2N1bWVudCBk YXRlOgkyMDE1LTA0LTE3DQpHcm91cDoJCUluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0KUGFnZXM6CQk4 DQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJh ZnQtemlhLW52bzMtZGlzdC1hcmNoLTAwLnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0 YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXppYS1udm8zLWRpc3QtYXJjaC8NCkh0bWxpemVk OiAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC16aWEtbnZvMy1kaXN0LWFy Y2gtMDANCg0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgIFRoaXMgZHJhZnQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIGEgZGlzdHJpYnV0 ZWQgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgZGF0YQ0KICAgY2VudGVyIGZvciBwcm92aWRpbmcg Y3VzdG9tZXJzLCBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gdGhlaXIgVk1zIGluIHRoZSBkYXRhDQogICBjZW50ZXIuDQoN CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0 YWtlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgdGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uIHVudGls IHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0 Zi5vcmcuDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg== From nobody Mon May 4 16:41:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6A21B2CEE for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:41:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TJuyndft46-x for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999811B2CED for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,368,1427785200"; d="scan'208";a="63749690" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 04 May 2015 16:49:53 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.16) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:41:41 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::65ea:1de7:41c4:e948]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:41:41 -0700 From: Ian Cox To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHORBJHtbFukGEGhFj1tmRhx5p1sx3iA//+0UgA= Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 23:41:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 23:41:46 -0000 I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next layer i= s better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. MPLS ha= s no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what the underlyi= ng payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS traffic most hardw= are today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 then parse into the pa= yload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 packet. The 4 or 6 guess for= the underlying MPLS payload being an IP packet was fine until IEEE allocat= ed MAC addresses starting with 6. Unintended results occur when you parse M= AC addresses as IP addresses and feed than into the ECMP calculation. Ian -----Original Message----- From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM To: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) I think I now understand better this draft. The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses VM-to-VM communication. In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk about VMs. I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you can convince me? If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. Regards, Behcet On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working= Group of the IETF. > > Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN > Authors : Paul Quinn > Rajeev Manur > Larry Kreeger > Darrel Lewis > Fabio Maino > Michael Smith > Puneet Agarwal > Lucy Yong > Xiaohu Xu > Uri Elzur > Pankaj Garg > David Melman > Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2015-05-01 > > Abstract: > This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network > (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new > capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, > administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit > versioning. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 16:52:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321841B2CF2 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id piaby2VsOECi for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3D411B2CF5 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.215.155.181] (181.sub-75-215-155.myvzw.com [75.215.155.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t44NpbkT017395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 4 May 2015 16:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 16:51:36 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 23:52:39 -0000 On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: > I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next > layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. > MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what > the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS > traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 > then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 > packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP > packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. > Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses > and feed than into the ECMP calculation. That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. Joe > > > Ian > > -----Original Message----- > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM > To: nvo3@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > > Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, > > After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) > I think I now understand better this draft. > > The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My > suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. > > Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost > copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. > > What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data > center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and > always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. > Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses > VM-to-VM communication. > > In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are > Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk > about VMs. > > I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. > > Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of > encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. > > Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. > Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you > can convince me? > > If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be > discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. > Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. > > Regards, > > Behcet > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >> Authors : Paul Quinn >> Rajeev Manur >> Larry Kreeger >> Darrel Lewis >> Fabio Maino >> Michael Smith >> Puneet Agarwal >> Lucy Yong >> Xiaohu Xu >> Uri Elzur >> Pankaj Garg >> David Melman >> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >> Pages : 22 >> Date : 2015-05-01 >> >> Abstract: >> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >> versioning. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >> >> There's also a htmlized version available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > From nobody Mon May 4 17:15:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7C31B2D14 for ; 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Tue, 5 May 2015 00:14:48 +0000 From: John E Drake To: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOAjZeudAxfpUmDFNFnRDiM1p1sUiCAgAAstQCAAAjNYA== Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 00:14:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: broadcom.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; x-forefront-prvs: 0567A15835 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(24454002)(51704005)(377454003)(13464003)(377424004)(51444003)(99286002)(86362001)(19580395003)(102836002)(50986999)(2201001)(19580405001)(230783001)(54356999)(76176999)(106116001)(33656002)(74316001)(76576001)(5001920100001)(62966003)(77156002)(46102003)(122556002)(2656002)(15975445007)(2501003)(107886002)(5001770100001)(2950100001)(92566002)(2900100001)(5001960100002)(77096005)(66066001)(87936001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR05MB563; H:BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2015 00:14:47.6790 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR05MB563 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 00:15:08 -0000 This is one of many reasons why entropy labels were invented. Intermediate= nodes should not be looking at payloads.=20 Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ian Cox > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 7:42 PM > To: sarikaya@ieee.org; nvo3@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >=20 > I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next layer= is > better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. MPLS ha= s no > indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what the underlying > payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS traffic most hardwa= re > today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 then parse into the payl= oad > under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the > underlying MPLS payload being an IP packet was fine until IEEE allocated = MAC > addresses starting with 6. Unintended results occur when you parse MAC > addresses as IP addresses and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >=20 >=20 > Ian >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM > To: nvo3@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >=20 > Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >=20 > After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) = I > think I now understand better this draft. >=20 > The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My > suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >=20 > Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost > copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >=20 > What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data ce= nter > networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and always > assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. > Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses VM-to- > VM communication. >=20 > In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are La= yer 3 > based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk about VMs. >=20 > I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >=20 > Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of > encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >=20 > Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. > Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you can > convince me? >=20 > If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be discuss= ed > in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. > Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Behcet >=20 >=20 > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Worki= ng > Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN > > Authors : Paul Quinn > > Rajeev Manur > > Larry Kreeger > > Darrel Lewis > > Fabio Maino > > Michael Smith > > Puneet Agarwal > > Lucy Yong > > Xiaohu Xu > > Uri Elzur > > Pankaj Garg > > David Melman > > Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > > Pages : 22 > > Date : 2015-05-01 > > > > Abstract: > > This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network > > (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new > > capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, > > administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit > > versioning. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nvo3 mailing list > > nvo3@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 17:20:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BE61B2D23 for ; 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Mon, 4 May 2015 20:20:08 -0400 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Joe Touch , Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOROo6GEekEs0i43XpHytUdRJ1slS6AgAAstQCAAALHAP//kpyA Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 00:20:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupmkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonVnfrCvdQg1UrFSxmnN3BbPF0vqTF 7N7TLBbr/sxlcWDxmHX/LJvH0wkHmTyWLPnJ5LH7/VaWAJYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroyFz26x FzRpV3y+OI25gfG5QhcjJ4eEgInEvvs7GSFsMYkL99azgdhCAkcZJRZ+F+pi5AKylzFKLDpz iQUkwSZgIPH/23EWkISIQBujxKue2UDdHBzCAg4S/xcZgZgiAo4S89okQcpFBNwkbhy6zwxi swioSDzd/xDM5hUwl1i05C8zxPxPjBITmm8zgSQ4BdQl2pcsAStiBDro+6k1YHFmAXGJW0/m M0EcKiCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+sILaogJ7EyutNbBBxJYlJS8+xQvTqSdyYOoUNwraW+Ny/mhHC 1pZYtvA11EGCEidnPmGZwCg+C8m6WUjaZyFpn4WkfRaS9gWMrKsYOUqLU8ty040MNzECY++Y BJvjDsYFnywPMQpwMCrx8CokuYUKsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREuctu3IwREggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6o NCe1+BAjEwenVANjUuPqP5//nKhydd9o4CTamxM6X3W6WwD70j/aVi/2vno9TUzX5Ez9nweM 5Yp3BDvfpwd4/zdYN+3vr9c5d5Xyb24Q+GMctC73Z5+n/vu3i36orl15SS58/t5Fq9vEvz/p fmGcsL5xFU9m6+rXDiUv9NN0TzltWhWcuCv0nHu6qshup3BpfZNIJZbijERDLeai4kQAdg4D UJ4CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 00:20:42 -0000 That=B9s why we have been using entropy labels, ingress node has the best understanding of the context. Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Joe Touch Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM To: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > > >On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. > >That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. > >Joe > >>=20 >>=20 >> Ian >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >> To: nvo3@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>=20 >> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>=20 >> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >> I think I now understand better this draft. >>=20 >> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>=20 >> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>=20 >> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >> VM-to-VM communication. >>=20 >> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >> about VMs. >>=20 >> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>=20 >> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>=20 >> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >> can convince me? >>=20 >> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Behcet >>=20 >>=20 >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>Working Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>> Rajeev Manur >>> Larry Kreeger >>> Darrel Lewis >>> Fabio Maino >>> Michael Smith >>> Puneet Agarwal >>> Lucy Yong >>> Xiaohu Xu >>> Uri Elzur >>> Pankaj Garg >>> David Melman >>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>> Pages : 22 >>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>> versioning. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>> >>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 > >_______________________________________________ >nvo3 mailing list >nvo3@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 18:19:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B411A914B for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:19:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URB_8B2orSEf for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f51.google.com (mail-qg0-f51.google.com [209.85.192.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF3981B2D19 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgdy78 with SMTP id y78so74593158qgd.0 for ; Mon, 04 May 2015 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=6X+U+FBN2MYk7e3/XwUj4t7fmApi4pBCO7ZEWc9W9uw=; b=mMkoPoKrHpUAsbDPtaIHwom5qaFgEImV2/vzxl6/wIGgoETjPSEP/CzUsKiw+3HhEN RBW6hGjekHvGw8KmPd/Tx/pK7eSoYZAi1iVF7jKZv5zlB4Vd8nuxTpzJsOxlmjrLAV8j w/rrG21rku4076M22gYK9hiQo/o8wxsf4GrpRVdvhUNbbF+jrlKfAUd5bVH/UhuFLJCr kZDf8NE096PaFCVMP6X/pD7pvpe7gtdtzJAmb2J/bIGJp+l9Lv8+nVViPtDwuI4pfzom dQjUfz8Fz2NFnJATV2GSNRzLv8KR/r29PeMNjR47FuZGGoSz+K7ksghBM28TsVG/Ph2X WbIA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlPtsGxTU23oXoWdzEBs4Qz/cmFtnJOboy9+IrJumnxhjVlwI2hIN5aoE3ssyyH1KSwP+P1 X-Received: by 10.140.17.50 with SMTP id 47mr29593395qgc.20.1430788773987; Mon, 04 May 2015 18:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.12.187] (ip-64-134-185-163.public.wayport.net. [64.134.185.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 33sm11061892qkv.22.2015.05.04.18.19.33 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 04 May 2015 18:19:33 -0700 (PDT) References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-A11FE627-D566-4875-BC8E-8D6650AF64CD Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12F70) From: William Caban Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:19:32 -0400 To: Jeff Tantsura Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 01:19:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail-A11FE627-D566-4875-BC8E-8D6650AF64CD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a question or request to see if it makes sense. (Not sure if this is= the right forum) With the Next Protocol values stated in the draft: This draft defines the following Next Protocol values:=20 0x1 : IPv4=20 0x2 : IPv6=20 0x3 : Ethernet=20 0x4 : Network Service Header [NSH] Understanding the rapid evolution of overlay networks and the need to suppor= t future research in networking fields. What about including a "RAW" or "TES= T" next protocol which network researchers and academia can use to develop f= uture protocols over an overlay network without having to modify the overlay= transport. Such extension could also be used for application vendors with u= nique protocol requirement for "raw" communication between end points in an o= verlay network.=20 -William > On May 4, 2015, at 20:20, Jeff Tantsura wrote= : >=20 > That=C2=B9s why we have been using entropy labels, ingress node has the be= st > understanding of the context. >=20 > Cheers, > Jeff >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Touch > Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM > To: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , > "nvo3@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >>> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >>> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >>> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >>> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >>> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >>> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >>> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >>> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >>> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >>> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >>=20 >> That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >> reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. >>=20 >> Joe >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Ian >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >>> To: nvo3@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>=20 >>> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>>=20 >>> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :)= >>> I think I now understand better this draft. >>>=20 >>> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >>> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>>=20 >>> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >>> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>>=20 >>> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >>> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >>> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >>> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >>> VM-to-VM communication. >>>=20 >>> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >>> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >>> about VMs. >>>=20 >>> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>>=20 >>> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >>> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>>=20 >>> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >>> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >>> can convince me? >>>=20 >>> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >>> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >>> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Behcet >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>> directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>>=20 >>>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>>> Rajeev Manur >>>> Larry Kreeger >>>> Darrel Lewis >>>> Fabio Maino >>>> Michael Smith >>>> Puneet Agarwal >>>> Lucy Yong >>>> Xiaohu Xu >>>> Uri Elzur >>>> Pankaj Garg >>>> David Melman >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>> Pages : 22 >>>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>>>=20 >>>> Abstract: >>>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>>> versioning. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>>>=20 >>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>=20 >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 --Apple-Mail-A11FE627-D566-4875-BC8E-8D6650AF64CD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is a question or request to see if it m= akes sense. (Not sure if this is the right forum)

With the Next Protocol= values stated in the draft:

This draft defines the following Next Protocol values:&nb=
sp;
 0x1 : IPv4 
 0x2 : IPv6 
 0x3 : Et=
hernet 
 0x4 : Network Service Header [NSH]

Understanding the rapid evolution o=
f overlay networks and the need to support future research in networking fie=
lds. What about including a "RAW" or "TEST" next protocol which network rese=
archers and academia can use to develop future protocols over an overlay net=
work without having to modify the overlay transport. Such extension could al=
so be used for application vendors with unique protocol requirement for "raw=
" communication between end points in an overlay network. 

-William

On May 4, 2015, at 20:20, Jeff Tants= ura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson= .com> wrote:

That=C2= =B9s why we have been using entropy labels, ingress node has the best=
understanding of the context.

Che= ers,
Jeff


=

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu><= /span>
Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM
To: Ian= Cox <icox@broadcom.com>, "sarikaya@ieee.org" <sarikaya@ieee.org>,
"nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: dra= ft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt


=
On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Co= x wrote:
I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for n= ext
layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MP= LS as an example.
MPLS has no indication in the label stac= k for intermediate nodes what
the underlying payload is. T= o achieve better load balancing of MPLS
=
traffic most hardw= are today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6
=
then p= arse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6
<= span>packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP
packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting w= ith 6.
Unintended results occur when you parse MAC address= es as IP addresses
and feed than into the ECMP calculation= .

That sounds like a great r= eason to indicate "IP", but insufficient
reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6.
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
Joe

=

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behc= et Sarikaya
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM
<= /blockquote>
To: nvo3@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt<= br>

Hi VXLAN-gpe authors,
=

After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coa= uthors :)
I think I now understand better this draft.

=
The source of misunderstanding was the lack o= f problem statement. My
suggestion is to clearly define wh= at this draft is intended to solve.

Due= to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost
copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion.
<= /span>
What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non L= ayer 2 data
center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data c= enter networks and
always assumes Ethernet frames in the p= ayload.
Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. V= XLAN addresses
VM-to-VM communication.
<= /span>
In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i= .e. some are
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why= VXLAN-GPE does not talk
about VMs.

I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft.
=

Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ether= net from the list of
encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN.=

Given the above, I think that next pro= tocol field is not needed.
Version of IP is in the very fi= rst field in IP header. But maybe you
can convince me?

=
If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP pack= ets than it should be
discussed in intarea list, just like G= UE which is being discussed.
Already Xiaohu suggested this= on intarea list.

Regards,
=
Behcet

=
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM,  <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Draf= ts
directories.
This draft is a work i= tem of the Network Virtualization Overlays
Working Group of the IETF.
=

       Title   &n= bsp;       : Generic Protocol Extension f= or VXLAN
 &nbs= p;     Authors       =   : Paul Quinn
=            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;Rajeev Manur
&= nbsp;            = ;            Lar= ry Kreeger
 &= nbsp;            = ;           Darrel Le= wis
  &n= bsp;            =           Fabio Maino
   &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;        Michael Smith
=
    &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;       Puneet Agarwal
     &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      Lucy Yong
=
       &= nbsp;            = ;     Xiaohu Xu
         = ;            &nb= sp;   Uri Elzur
          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp; Pankaj Garg
            = ;            &nb= sp;David Melman
&n= bsp;      Filename     &nb= sp;  : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">        Pa= ges           : 22<= br>
    &= nbsp;  Date          =   : 2015-05-01
=
Abstract:
  This dra= ft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network
  (VXLAN), via changes t= o the VXLAN header, with three new
  capabilities: support for multi-protocol encaps= ulation, operations,
  administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit
  versioni= ng.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=
=
https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/

<= span>There's also a htmlized version available at:
=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-g= pe-00

=

Please note that it may take a couple of minute= s from the time of
= submission
until th= e htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Draft= s are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp:/= /ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

__= _____________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org=
=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/n= vo3

=
__________________= _____________________________
nvo3 mailing list
=
nvo3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/nvo3

____________= ___________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
= https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3


_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/nvo3

___= ____________________________________________
nvo3 mailing li= st
nvo3@ietf.org=
https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
= --Apple-Mail-A11FE627-D566-4875-BC8E-8D6650AF64CD-- From nobody Mon May 4 18:25:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA55B1B2D54 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:25:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdqzrgnWdecx for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39BDB1B2D52 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVQ84329; Tue, 05 May 2015 01:25:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 5 May 2015 02:25:38 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:25:35 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOUXvvfWYjOiEW1KmmHYawWsZ1rzAOAgADPCKA= Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 01:25:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A779@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 01:25:43 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 5:02 AM > To: nvo3@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >=20 > Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >=20 > After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) = I think > I now understand better this draft. >=20 > The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My > suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >=20 > Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost cop= ied > from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >=20 > What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data ce= nter > networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and always assumes > Ethernet frames in the payload. > Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses VM-to-VM > communication. >=20 > In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are La= yer 3 > based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk about VMs. >=20 > I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >=20 > Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of > encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >=20 > Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. > Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you can = convince > me? Hi Behcet, You may be interested to read the following email (https://www.ietf.org/mai= l-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg01520.html). Best regards, Xiaohu > If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be discuss= ed in > intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. > Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Behcet >=20 >=20 > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Worki= ng > Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN > > Authors : Paul Quinn > > Rajeev Manur > > Larry Kreeger > > Darrel Lewis > > Fabio Maino > > Michael Smith > > Puneet Agarwal > > Lucy Yong > > Xiaohu Xu > > Uri Elzur > > Pankaj Garg > > David Melman > > Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt > > Pages : 22 > > Date : 2015-05-01 > > > > Abstract: > > This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network > > (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new > > capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, > > administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit > > versioning. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nvo3 mailing list > > nvo3@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 18:54:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com 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(8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t451s0Q0025355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 May 2015 01:54:00 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.187]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 20:54:00 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: William Caban , Jeff Tantsura Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOLpFXJHVSEHkGn+pBFjDBZTZ1spfGAgAAstgCAAALGAIAAB/iAgAAQmgD//5RagA== Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 01:54:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 x-originating-ip: [10.155.166.41] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D16D705B1475B3kreegerciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 01:54:06 -0000 --_000_D16D705B1475B3kreegerciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgV2lsbGlhbSwNCg0KVGhpcyBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZSB0byBtZS4gIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgY291bGQg aGF2ZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBleHBlcmltZW50YWwgdmFsdWVzLiAgSW4gZmFjdCBpZiB5b3UgbG9vayBh dCBzZWN0aW9uIDkuMiB5b3Ugd2lsbCBzZWUgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBtZW50aW9uIG9mIHRo ZSB2YWx1ZXMgMjU0IG9yIDI1NSAod2hpbGUgYWxsIG90aGVyIHZhbHVlcyBhcmUgYWNjb3VudGVk IGZvcikuICBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXNlIHZhbHVlIG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlIHRvIGFsbG9jYXRlIGZvciBl eHBlcmltZW50YWwgdXNlLg0KDQogLSBMYXJyeQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBXaWxsaWFtIENhYmFuIDx3aWxs 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E=Sophos;i="5.13,369,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="147118392" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 May 2015 02:05:01 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com [173.37.183.80]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t45251Zk006211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 May 2015 02:05:01 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.187]) by xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([173.37.183.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:05:01 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: Joe Touch , Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOLpFXJHVSEHkGn+pBFjDBZTZ1spfGAgAAstgCAAALGAP//r/+A Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 02:05:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 x-originating-ip: [10.155.166.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 02:05:05 -0000 Hi Joe, Please see my response in this thread http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by indicating IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at two places to determine this? Thanks, Larry On 5/4/15 4:51 PM, "Joe Touch" wrote: > > >On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. > >That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. > >Joe > >>=20 >>=20 >> Ian >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >> To: nvo3@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>=20 >> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>=20 >> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >> I think I now understand better this draft. >>=20 >> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>=20 >> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>=20 >> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >> VM-to-VM communication. >>=20 >> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >> about VMs. >>=20 >> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>=20 >> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>=20 >> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >> can convince me? >>=20 >> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Behcet >>=20 >>=20 >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>Working Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>> Rajeev Manur >>> Larry Kreeger >>> Darrel Lewis >>> Fabio Maino >>> Michael Smith >>> Puneet Agarwal >>> Lucy Yong >>> Xiaohu Xu >>> Uri Elzur >>> Pankaj Garg >>> David Melman >>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>> Pages : 22 >>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>> versioning. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>> >>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 > >_______________________________________________ >nvo3 mailing list >nvo3@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 19:23:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C59B1B2DAE; 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Tue, 5 May 2015 03:23:08 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:23:05 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip Thread-Index: AQHQhDAYoLZIFwke90qEGncpXxc1v51nAPgAgAQl8XCAAFTXgIABIiUA Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 02:23:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 02:23:16 -0000 Hi Joe, > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:12 AM > To: Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org > Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 5/3/2015 8:19 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > > > I'm wondering whether your proposal as below is also applicable to > > other UDP-based encapsulation approaches which have not yet considered > > doing fragmentation on the tunnel layer, such as GENEVE, VXLAN-GPE, > > GRE-in-UDP and NSH-UDP. >=20 > Again: >=20 > We know of at least four things that tunnels need that IP-in-UDP ignores: >=20 > - stronger checksums >=20 > - fragmentation support >=20 > - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or > to measure MTUs) >=20 > - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, > e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) I'm just wondering whether the above is only applicable to IP-in-UDP or app= licable to all the other UDP-based encapsulations as well. > I haven't scrubbed GUE to ensure that all four are addressed, but it may = be more > than the above, and certainly it's important not to start from scratch ne= edlessly. I don't intend addressing items 1), 2) and 3). As for item 3), I would add= the following text: =20 "Ingress AFBRs MUST NOT fragment I-IP [RFC5565] packets (i.e., UDP encapsul= ated IP packets), and when the outer IP header is IPv4, ingress AFBRs MUST = set the DF bit in the outer IPv4 header. It is strongly RECOMMENDED that I-= IP [RFC5565] transit core be configured to carry an MTU at least large enou= gh to accommodate the added encapsulation headers. Meanwhile, it is strongl= y RECOMMENDED that Path MTU Discovery [RFC1191][RFC1981] is used to prevent= or minimize fragmentation."=20 Ahead of the following existing text in Section 4: "If an ingress AFBR performs fragmentation on an E-IP packet before encapsulating, it MUST use the same source UDP port for all fragmented packets so as to ensures these fragmented packets are always forwarded on the same path." In a word, IP-in-UDP is just intended for those network environments where = fragmentation on the tunnel layer and strong checksums are not desired. For= those network environments where fragmentation on the tunnel layer and str= onger checksums are required, GUE should be considered instead. Best regards, Xiaohu > Joe >=20 >=20 > > > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch > >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 3:48 AM > >> To: Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip > >> > >> Hi, all, > >> > >> Have you considered GUE as an encapsulation layer? > >> > >> Encapsulating anything in UDP directly has a number of hazards, > >> including support for at-rate fragmentation, IPv4 ID generation, > >> etc., that GUE is intended to address. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> On 5/1/2015 9:58 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: > >>> Forwarded with permission. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Donald > >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >>> From: *Donald Eastlake* > > >>> Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:26 AM > >>> Subject: Re: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip > >>> To: Mingui Zhang >>> > > >>> > >>> Hi Mingui, > >>> > >>> Thanks for these comments! See below. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Mingui Zhang > >>> > wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I read the document. It's comprehensive and well written. Below, > >>>> several > >> comments for your information. > >>>> > >>>> 1. It's not clear how the ports IPs are associated with the por= ts? > Maybe, > >> we can add some words to explain that they can be got from DHCP or > >> manual configuration? Or we just say it is out the scope of this docum= ent. > >>> > >>> Yes, they need to be configured. Could be DHCP or manual or maybe > >>> some sort of orchestration thing... Seems reasonable to mention this > >>> in the draft. > >>> > >>>> 2. Is it helpful to add a reference topology? Terminologies, su= ch as IP > >> tunnel, port IPs, RBridges can be put onto this figure. A > >> walk-through example based on this reference topology can be used to > >> explain how the IP tunnel is set up, how does a TRILL Data packet get > >> encapsulated/decapsulated and transported in the IP tunnel. I think th= is > would be educational. > >>> > >>> A few more network diagrams would probably be helpful. If you look > >>> at the minutes from the Dallas TRILL WG meeting, the suggestion of > >>> having a couple of example packets was supported... > >>> > >>>> 3. Both IP and TRILL have specified BFD. Since TRILL is depende= nt on > IP > >> in TRILL-over-IP, it's unnecessary to have both TRILL and IP interact > >> with BFD. It's best to assert TRILL-over-IP will have the IP interact > >> with BFD. Please refer to > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5882#section-4.4 > >>> > >>> Well, if you are only going to use one then I agree with the section > >>> you reference in RFC 5882 and you should do BFD over IP. But that > >>> doesn't check the TRILL stack, just the IP and lower stacks. So we > >>> could recommend just using IP BFD but I don't think we should try to > >>> prohibit people from also using BFD over TRILL on the link. > >>> > >>>> 4. Is the IP link in this document "a single link (physical, or= a secure > >> tunnel such as IPsec)"? Then, we can require the TTL "MUST be set to > >> the maximum on transmit, and checked to be equal to the maximum value > >> on reception (and the packet dropped if this is not the case)." See > >> also RFC 5880 Section 9. > >>> > >>> I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the communication > >>> between two TRILL IP ports being multiple IP hops. Even if IPsec is > >>> in use, it could be integrated with the TRILL over IP port at one > >>> end but at the other end, the IPsec implementation could be > >>> integrated with a firewall a couple of hops from the RBridge... > >>> > >>>> 5. There are six tiny typos marked in the attached doc. > >>> > >>> OK. We'll fix this up in the next version. > >>> > >>> Maybe you should post these comments, or some of them, to the TRILL > >>> WG mailing list. It would be good if there was more discussion of > >>> drafts there. Or if it OK with you, I could just forward your > >>> comments and my responses to the list... > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Donald > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 > (cell) > >>> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Mingui > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> trill mailing list > >>> trill@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> trill mailing list > >> trill@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill From nobody Mon May 4 20:10:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACFB1A907E for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 20:10:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] 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"draft-gross-geneve-02@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll for draft-gross-geneve-02 Thread-Index: AQHQY1BFocqhjzvbhEGQBFPfJgSEaZ1s+zyg Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 03:10:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: alcatel-lucent.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [63.235.13.250] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY2PR03MB126; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401001)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:BY2PR03MB126; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2PR03MB126; x-forefront-prvs: 0567A15835 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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ESMTP id BC6CA1A90DF for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EIksHgc6b6Fx for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from door.sniff.de (door.sniff.de [IPv6:2001:6f8:94f:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708281A90BA for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost.sniff.de [127.0.0.1]) by door.sniff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27562AA0F; Tue, 5 May 2015 04:43:49 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:43:48 -0700 From: Marc Binderberger To: Santosh P K , draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan@tools.ietf.org Message-ID: <20150504214348673026.8ae7fa9a@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.16 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 04:43:54 -0000 Hello Santosh and authors, interesting idea to combine VxLAN and BFD - I like it. But what I do not understand is how VxLAN is supposed to understand that the inner frame is an IP packet (you refer to RFC7348, not VxLAN-gpe). At least your draft reads like the packet you propose is outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD i.e. without any inner Ethernet header. Is the inner Ethernet header kind of obvious, so you did not mention it? I would expect: outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-Ethernet-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD if we talk about VxLAN RFC7348. In section "6. Reception of BFD Packet" you refer to section 4.1 of RFC7348 - which explicitly talks about the receiving VTEP checking VNI and the MAC of the inner Ethernet frame. RFC 7348 is not covering the transport of IP packets, it transports Ethernet frames. You also the say in section "6": Since inner IP TTL is set to 1 packet SHOULD be consumed by VTEP and should not be forwarded further to VM. Hmm, I would not expect the VTEP to do any such inspection of the inner frame. If e.g. your VTEP is a switch (TOR) then it would simply forward the inner L2 frame on some L2 interface. But maybe I'm missing something? Regards, Marc On Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: > Hello All, > We have submitted new BFD for VXLAN draft Please review and get back to > us with your comments. > > Thanks > Santosh P K > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:29 PM >> To: Basil Saji; Santosh P K; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan; Santosh P K; Basil >> Saji; >> Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Santosh Pallagatti and posted to the >> IETF >> repository. >> >> Name: draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan >> Revision: 00 >> Title: BFD for VXLAN >> Document date: 2015-05-04 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 9 >> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan- >> 00.txt >> Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection >> (BFD) protocol for VXLAN . Comments on this draft should be directed >> to nvo3@ietf.org. >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > From nobody Mon May 4 21:57:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016D31B2E13 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:57:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60UxYVo5QuOF for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0112.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 815FF1A90CB for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 21:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.27) by SN1PR0501MB1759.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.154.19; Tue, 5 May 2015 04:57:29 +0000 Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) by SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) with mapi id 15.01.0154.018; Tue, 5 May 2015 04:57:29 +0000 From: Santosh P K To: Marc Binderberger , "draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhoMzEknWHHNqr0WZplypYqzrJZ1r/VfQgADRyQCAAAKPUA== Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 04:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20150504214348673026.8ae7fa9a@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: <20150504214348673026.8ae7fa9a@sniff.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: sniff.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.15] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1759; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1759; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1759; x-forefront-prvs: 0567A15835 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(53754006)(377454003)(377424004)(51704005)(53234004)(13464003)(86362001)(46102003)(50986999)(54356999)(5001770100001)(40100003)(76176999)(19580395003)(74316001)(122556002)(99286002)(62966003)(77156002)(2501003)(87936001)(2900100001)(102836002)(15975445007)(76576001)(230783001)(92566002)(33656002)(19580405001)(106116001)(66066001)(2950100001)(2656002)(5001960100002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1759; H:SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2015 04:57:29.5390 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB1759 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 04:57:34 -0000 Marc, Thanks a lot for review. Please see answers inline tagged [SPK]. > But what I do not understand is how VxLAN is supposed to understand that > the inner frame is an IP packet (you refer to RFC7348, not VxLAN-gpe). At > least your draft reads like the packet you propose is >=20 > outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD >=20 > i.e. without any inner Ethernet header. Is the inner Ethernet header kind= of > obvious, so you did not mention it? I would expect: [SPK]Yes, since we did not propose any changes to inner MAC we did not ment= ion about that. I think you are right we should mention that for clarity.=20 >=20 > outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-Ethernet-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD >=20 > if we talk about VxLAN RFC7348. [SPK]We will do that.=20 > In section "6. Reception of BFD Packet" you refer to section 4.1 of RFC73= 48 - > which explicitly talks about the receiving VTEP checking VNI and the MAC = of > the inner Ethernet frame. RFC 7348 is not covering the transport of IP > packets, it transports Ethernet frames. >=20 > You also the say in section "6": >=20 > Since inner IP TTL is set to 1 packet > SHOULD be consumed by VTEP and should not be forwarded further to > VM. >=20 > Hmm, I would not expect the VTEP to do any such inspection of the inner > frame. If e.g. your VTEP is a switch (TOR) then it would simply forward t= he > inner L2 frame on some L2 interface. [SPK] If inner VTEP is not L3 capable then BFD should not be established. B= FD will be applicable to VTEP's which are L3 aware.=20 Thanks Santosh P K=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: > > Hello All, > > We have submitted new BFD for VXLAN draft Please review and get > > back to us with your comments. > > > > Thanks > > Santosh P K > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:29 PM > >> To: Basil Saji; Santosh P K; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan; Santosh P K; > >> Basil Saji; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan > >> Subject: New Version Notification for > >> draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt > >> > >> > >> A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt > >> has been successfully submitted by Santosh Pallagatti and posted to > >> the IETF repository. > >> > >> Name: draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan > >> Revision: 00 > >> Title: BFD for VXLAN > >> Document date: 2015-05-04 > >> Group: Individual Submission > >> Pages: 9 > >> URL: > >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan- > >> 00.txt > >> Status: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/ > >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxla= n-00 > >> > >> > >> Abstract: > >> This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection > >> (BFD) protocol for VXLAN . Comments on this draft should be directe= d > >> to nvo3@ietf.org. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >> tools.ietf.org. > >> > >> The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nvo3 mailing list > > nvo3@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > From nobody Mon May 4 22:40:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C251A9149 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:40:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dVB2YW443COV for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from door.sniff.de (door.sniff.de [IPv6:2001:6f8:94f:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180751A916B for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost.sniff.de [127.0.0.1]) by door.sniff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419B02AA0F; Tue, 5 May 2015 05:40:27 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 22:40:27 -0700 From: Marc Binderberger To: Santosh P K Message-ID: <20150504224027381528.b81c92a4@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20150504214348673026.8ae7fa9a@sniff.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.16 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 05:40:32 -0000 Hello Santosh, thanks for the explanations. > [SPK] If inner VTEP is not L3 capable then BFD should not be established. > BFD will be applicable to VTEP's which are L3 aware. well, what do you mean with "L3 aware VTEPs" ? Even when the VTEP has a layer-3 stack, VxLAN is not talking about any layer-3 processing of the inner IP (or at least I haven't found anything). Naively I would think you need to set the inner destination MAC to an address that belongs to the VTEP, so the VTEP accepts the frame, strips off the Ethernet and processes layer-3. Otherwise you would need some filter/policy that looks into the Ethernet frame, checks for IP, 127/8, UDP, 3784 port and TTL, then consumes the frame/packet when the filter triggers - for a packet that is not addressed to the VTEP. I don't think this is the transparent L2 service one would expect from VxLAN. Not sure I understand the draft yet :-) Regards, Marc On Tue, 5 May 2015 04:57:29 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: > Marc, > Thanks a lot for review. Please see answers inline tagged [SPK]. > >> But what I do not understand is how VxLAN is supposed to understand that >> the inner frame is an IP packet (you refer to RFC7348, not VxLAN-gpe). At >> least your draft reads like the packet you propose is >> >> outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD >> >> i.e. without any inner Ethernet header. Is the inner Ethernet header kind >> of >> obvious, so you did not mention it? I would expect: > > [SPK]Yes, since we did not propose any changes to inner MAC we did not > mention about that. I think you are right we should mention that for > clarity. > >> >> outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-Ethernet-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD >> >> if we talk about VxLAN RFC7348. > > [SPK]We will do that. > > >> In section "6. Reception of BFD Packet" you refer to section 4.1 of >> RFC7348 - >> which explicitly talks about the receiving VTEP checking VNI and the MAC of >> the inner Ethernet frame. RFC 7348 is not covering the transport of IP >> packets, it transports Ethernet frames. >> >> You also the say in section "6": >> >> Since inner IP TTL is set to 1 packet >> SHOULD be consumed by VTEP and should not be forwarded further to >> VM. >> >> Hmm, I would not expect the VTEP to do any such inspection of the inner >> frame. If e.g. your VTEP is a switch (TOR) then it would simply forward the >> inner L2 frame on some L2 interface. > > [SPK] If inner VTEP is not L3 capable then BFD should not be established. > BFD will be applicable to VTEP's which are L3 aware. > > > Thanks > Santosh P K > >> >> >> On Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: >>> Hello All, >>> We have submitted new BFD for VXLAN draft Please review and get >>> back to us with your comments. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Santosh P K >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:29 PM >>>> To: Basil Saji; Santosh P K; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan; Santosh P K; >>>> Basil Saji; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>> draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt >>>> >>>> >>>> A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt >>>> has been successfully submitted by Santosh Pallagatti and posted to >>>> the IETF repository. >>>> >>>> Name: draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan >>>> Revision: 00 >>>> Title: BFD for VXLAN >>>> Document date: 2015-05-04 >>>> Group: Individual Submission >>>> Pages: 9 >>>> URL: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan- >>>> 00.txt >>>> Status: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/ >>>> Htmlized: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00 >>>> >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection >>>> (BFD) protocol for VXLAN . Comments on this draft should be directed >>>> to nvo3@ietf.org. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >>>> tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>> > From nobody Mon May 4 22:49:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A8B1B2E49 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bd77gfkQUgup for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0786.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:786]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C85091B2E48 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 22:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.27) by SN1PR0501MB1758.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.163.130.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.154.19; Tue, 5 May 2015 05:49:12 +0000 Received: from SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) by SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.130.27]) with mapi id 15.01.0154.018; Tue, 5 May 2015 05:49:12 +0000 From: Santosh P K To: Marc Binderberger Thread-Topic: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhoMzEknWHHNqr0WZplypYqzrJZ1r/VfQgADRyQCAAAKPUIAADUWAgAAA0eA= Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 05:49:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150504155833.1436.11270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20150504214348673026.8ae7fa9a@sniff.de> <20150504224027381528.b81c92a4@sniff.de> In-Reply-To: <20150504224027381528.b81c92a4@sniff.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: sniff.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.15] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1758; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1758; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1758; x-forefront-prvs: 0567A15835 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377454003)(13464003)(53234004)(377424004)(53754006)(51704005)(62966003)(87936001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(74316001)(15975445007)(46102003)(93886004)(2656002)(122556002)(110136002)(5001960100002)(86362001)(106116001)(230783001)(2950100001)(2900100001)(92566002)(66066001)(76176999)(77156002)(102836002)(99286002)(50986999)(54356999)(76576001)(40100003)(33656002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB1758; H:SN1PR0501MB1760.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2015 05:49:11.5689 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB1758 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 05:49:32 -0000 Marc, >=20 > Even when the VTEP has a layer-3 stack, VxLAN is not talking about any > layer-3 processing of the inner IP (or at least I haven't found anything)= . Yes, but this is a special case as BFD will terminate on VTEP itself. So VT= EP's has to process L3 packet in BFD case.=20 >=20 > Naively I would think you need to set the inner destination MAC to an > address that belongs to the VTEP, so the VTEP accepts the frame, strips o= ff > the Ethernet and processes layer-3. Hmmm I think this is right way to do as we intend to terminate BFD which mo= nitors BFD at VTEP's.=20 >=20 > Otherwise you would need some filter/policy that looks into the Ethernet > frame, checks for IP, 127/8, UDP, 3784 port and TTL, then consumes the > frame/packet when the filter triggers - for a packet that is not addresse= d to > the VTEP. I don't think this is the transparent L2 service one would expe= ct > from VxLAN. >=20 I agree with this. We don't want to go filter way. I think your suggestion = of setting MAC address for VTEP to process L3 packet would be right thing t= o do.=20 >=20 > Not sure I understand the draft yet :-) I think you do :). Thanks Santosh P K=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards, Marc >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tue, 5 May 2015 04:57:29 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: > > Marc, > > Thanks a lot for review. Please see answers inline tagged [SPK]. > > > >> But what I do not understand is how VxLAN is supposed to understand > >> that the inner frame is an IP packet (you refer to RFC7348, not > >> VxLAN-gpe). At least your draft reads like the packet you propose is > >> > >> outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-IP, udp, BFD > >> > >> i.e. without any inner Ethernet header. Is the inner Ethernet header > >> kind of obvious, so you did not mention it? I would expect: > > > > [SPK]Yes, since we did not propose any changes to inner MAC we did not > > mention about that. I think you are right we should mention that for > > clarity. > > > >> > >> outer-IP, udp, VxLAN-header, inner-Ethernet-header, inner-IP, udp, > >> BFD > >> > >> if we talk about VxLAN RFC7348. > > > > [SPK]We will do that. > > > > > >> In section "6. Reception of BFD Packet" you refer to section 4.1 of > >> RFC7348 - > >> which explicitly talks about the receiving VTEP checking VNI and the > >> MAC of the inner Ethernet frame. RFC 7348 is not covering the > >> transport of IP packets, it transports Ethernet frames. > >> > >> You also the say in section "6": > >> > >> Since inner IP TTL is set to 1 packet > >> SHOULD be consumed by VTEP and should not be forwarded further to > >> VM. > >> > >> Hmm, I would not expect the VTEP to do any such inspection of the > >> inner frame. If e.g. your VTEP is a switch (TOR) then it would simply > >> forward the inner L2 frame on some L2 interface. > > > > [SPK] If inner VTEP is not L3 capable then BFD should not be establishe= d. > > BFD will be applicable to VTEP's which are L3 aware. > > > > > > Thanks > > Santosh P K > > > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 4 May 2015 16:13:54 +0000, Santosh P K wrote: > >>> Hello All, > >>> We have submitted new BFD for VXLAN draft Please review and get > >>> back to us with your comments. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Santosh P K > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:29 PM > >>>> To: Basil Saji; Santosh P K; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan; Santosh P K; > >>>> Basil Saji; Sudarsan Paragiri Mohan > >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for > >>>> draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> A new version of I-D, draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00.txt > >>>> has been successfully submitted by Santosh Pallagatti and posted to > >>>> the IETF repository. > >>>> > >>>> Name: draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan > >>>> Revision: 00 > >>>> Title: BFD for VXLAN > >>>> Document date: 2015-05-04 > >>>> Group: Individual Submission > >>>> Pages: 9 > >>>> URL: > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan- > >>>> 00.txt > >>>> Status: > >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan/ > >>>> Htmlized: > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-spallagatti-bfd-vxlan-00 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Abstract: > >>>> This document describes use of Bidirectional Forwarding Detection > >>>> (BFD) protocol for VXLAN . Comments on this draft should be direc= ted > >>>> to nvo3@ietf.org. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >>>> tools.ietf.org. > >>>> > >>>> The IETF Secretariat > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nvo3 mailing list > >>> nvo3@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > >>> > > From nobody Mon May 4 23:30:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD041B2E4F for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:30:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jQj1jD6mepzZ for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6899C1B2E7F for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.217.52.71] (71.sub-75-217-52.myvzw.com [75.217.52.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t456U3La019358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 4 May 2015 23:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55486369.6090901@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 23:30:01 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Caban , Jeff Tantsura References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 06:30:38 -0000 On 5/4/2015 6:19 PM, William Caban wrote: > Here is a question or request to see if it makes sense. (Not sure if > this is the right forum) > > With the Next Protocol values stated in the draft: > > This draft defines the following Next Protocol values: > > 0x1 : IPv4 > > 0x2 : IPv6 The above is a mistake, IMO. One ID should indicate "IP". The rest should be decided within the IP header. Let's not have to revisit this WHEN (not if) there's another IP. Joe > > 0x3 : Ethernet > > 0x4 : Network Service Header [NSH ] > > > Understanding the rapid evolution of overlay networks and the need to support future research in networking fields. What about including a "RAW" or "TEST" next protocol which network researchers and academia can use to develop future protocols over an overlay network without having to modify the overlay transport. Such extension could also be used for application vendors with unique protocol requirement for "raw" communication between end points in an overlay network. > > > -William > > On May 4, 2015, at 20:20, Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> That¹s why we have been using entropy labels, ingress node has the best >> understanding of the context. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch > >> Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM >> To: Ian Cox >, >> "sarikaya@ieee.org " > >, >> "nvo3@ietf.org " > > >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >> >>> >>> >>> On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >>>> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >>>> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >>>> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >>>> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >>>> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >>>> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >>>> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >>>> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >>>> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >>>> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >>> >>> That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >>> reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >>>> To: nvo3@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>> >>>> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>>> >>>> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >>>> I think I now understand better this draft. >>>> >>>> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >>>> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>>> >>>> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >>>> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>>> >>>> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >>>> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >>>> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >>>> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >>>> VM-to-VM communication. >>>> >>>> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >>>> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >>>> about VMs. >>>> >>>> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>>> >>>> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >>>> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>>> >>>> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >>>> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >>>> can convince me? >>>> >>>> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >>>> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >>>> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Behcet >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, >>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>> directories. >>>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>>> >>>>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>>>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>>>> Rajeev Manur >>>>> Larry Kreeger >>>>> Darrel Lewis >>>>> Fabio Maino >>>>> Michael Smith >>>>> Puneet Agarwal >>>>> Lucy Yong >>>>> Xiaohu Xu >>>>> Uri Elzur >>>>> Pankaj Garg >>>>> David Melman >>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>>> Pages : 22 >>>>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>>>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>>>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>>>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>>>> versioning. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>>>> >>>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Mon May 4 23:32:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4401B2E7F for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7UvMJwlcN0y for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 554D31B2E78 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 23:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.217.52.71] (71.sub-75-217-52.myvzw.com [75.217.52.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t456VIQC019516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 4 May 2015 23:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 23:31:16 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" , Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 06:32:02 -0000 On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: > Hi Joe, > > Please see my response in this thread > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . > > Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by indicating > IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at two > places to determine this? 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two differently, when they should not be handled differently IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. Joe > > Thanks, Larry > > On 5/4/15 4:51 PM, "Joe Touch" wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >>> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >>> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >>> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >>> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >>> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >>> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >>> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >>> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >>> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >>> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >> >> That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >> reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. >> >> Joe >> >>> >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >>> To: nvo3@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>> >>> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>> >>> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >>> I think I now understand better this draft. >>> >>> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >>> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>> >>> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >>> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>> >>> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >>> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >>> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >>> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >>> VM-to-VM communication. >>> >>> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >>> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >>> about VMs. >>> >>> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>> >>> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >>> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>> >>> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >>> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >>> can convince me? >>> >>> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >>> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >>> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Behcet >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>> directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>>> Rajeev Manur >>>> Larry Kreeger >>>> Darrel Lewis >>>> Fabio Maino >>>> Michael Smith >>>> Puneet Agarwal >>>> Lucy Yong >>>> Xiaohu Xu >>>> Uri Elzur >>>> Pankaj Garg >>>> David Melman >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>> Pages : 22 >>>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>>> versioning. >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>>> >>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > From nobody Tue May 5 08:40:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1328F1A0318 for ; 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Tue, 5 May 2015 10:40:30 -0500 From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOTO2f1jnO4BkCkp5dmQd3UCJ1spfGAgAE47AA= Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 15:40:29 +0000 Message-ID: <43859198-096D-4110-81D9-962D20AF623E@cisco.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.131.76.251] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 15:40:37 -0000 Hello, > On May 4, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrot= e: >=20 > Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >=20 > After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) > I think I now understand better this draft. >=20 > The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My > suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >=20 > Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost > copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >=20 > What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data > center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and > always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. > Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses > VM-to-VM communication. >=20 > In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are > Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk > about VMs. >=20 > I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >=20 The introduction of the draft states the following: "The VXLAN header does not specify the protocol being encapsulated and therefore is currently limited to encapsulating only Ethernet frame payloads." " This document describes extending VXLAN to support additional payload types beyond Ethernet frames.." Is this unclear? If so, what do you propose? From nobody Tue May 5 09:43:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018E01A1B95; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id grrLgXxf4BUJ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1535C1B2F2B; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45GWqVl024884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 09:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 09:32:51 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:43:42 -0000 On 5/4/2015 7:23 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > In a word, IP-in-UDP is just intended for those network environments > where fragmentation on the tunnel layer and strong checksums are not > desired. That's insufficient. They are only applicable where fragmentation and a strong checksum are not *needed*. Once you run IP in IP (IP in UDP in IP qualifies as this), you have only two choices: - support fragmentation - use in networks that are engineered so that fragmentation is never needed As to the strong checksum, similarly you have to either support one or deploy the result where that checksum isn't needed - either because you know that all apps will have strong enough checksums of their own or because you know enough about the kinds of errors that will occur that strong checksums aren't needed. But the key there is to define a use case where these properties are true AND to limit the document solution to uses in those case ONLY. > For those network environments where fragmentation on the > tunnel layer and stronger checksums are required, GUE should be > considered instead. Agreed. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 09:45:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6861B2F3A; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gov2ywyLHAZM; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 731EF1B2F3F; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45GYwWF025313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 09:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 09:34:58 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:45:37 -0000 On 5/5/2015 7:54 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > I thought we determined the IP-in-UDP is just GUE with header compression? IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 09:53:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4421A038B for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:53:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CoAYIqwI7Ru1 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AD9B1A0387 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by layy10 with SMTP id y10so132408883lay.0 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:49:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=rZbXtb3MMRSG0gmDyYCSiovk59RoLxRcDiM4FB8z/k8=; b=ol+t3wmUhVV/Yk7DlQoEg74HF3RmGIfLyWIDTq+b5eInTOy9ro49ZKmiWPVzSrK+uM dh6q1RtLKJG/fr0gLGwGQ5lrFaK1hyhbyfY8a/E2YYfB6YOU5wZ5Ve1GZIl9rXtXs9qS ks82YRLrkc6HKleG2cH4GdQKTlQPLM3fMMf2bDIQ6UeqDeIAAcPQ3iyGtC0tIChf935F RPS4dX8L75MgwkHe+CFNMN3WPZd1exMV/dC5Urh2hs0nbuHvQEQ+Iq4n5iUk8bI+zCui e4t8K9VNyZ23wPL+L0uYGmrzT8mOFDjkTEjKAotaVeLRkeTWYjDwbXo7C7DMC4sD4lEf JrqQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.179.195 with SMTP id di3mr4242341lac.15.1430844544679; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:49:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <43859198-096D-4110-81D9-962D20AF623E@cisco.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <43859198-096D-4110-81D9-962D20AF623E@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:49:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:53:03 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Paul Quinn (paulq) wrote: > Hello, > > >> On May 4, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >> >> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >> I think I now understand better this draft. >> >> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >> >> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >> >> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >> VM-to-VM communication. >> >> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >> about VMs. >> >> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >> > > The introduction of the draft states the following: > > "The VXLAN header does not specify the protocol > being encapsulated and therefore is currently limited to > encapsulating only Ethernet frame payloads." > > > " This document describes extending VXLAN to support additional payload > types beyond Ethernet frames.." > > Is this unclear? If so, what do you propose? > The explanation is above in my mail. L2 based and L3 based data center networks are quite well known in nvo3, e.g. RFC 6820. So people would understand it. Behcet > From nobody Tue May 5 09:55:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83311A1BDE for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:55:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNyO54Hd8yrr for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com (mail-lb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF1B31A8773 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbzk7 with SMTP id zk7so133562358lbb.0 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=F0ptYUHdyOt2XxYNuv1EmWd5VWWMfg8yhkImiCgQ5AI=; b=MRwtqmVlXE0xrmQ/JGojz02PfaQFCiG/3SRfwOmPChCht6Jzj+s4HEKIm8N0JQ6Z2F yx3/1/w/OwMFzCGyIbT+VmtgSOvCiAsNCsdJsBOf3lqC7ZS5eWOAccIP015AAK16NHQw aqOFlIs0uhQxBkRukoMi3GW42xszWyZwEiAR27knIbEtn0GQU1cV3cjb+Zeo3Twz35Um 82nsOnEwpzQ0UCkgUY0OO0S0Fv5mYcUIqcrnMAOsKCUt352fhIVd0qz69t0/MymSYtEL QdQzivhFykoFI8ZvylQDZ27HbC4uta0b1nLl8cQcjMW2B/YT2fUy+hTyIW+wME2GGNyQ SwIw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.189.102 with SMTP id gh6mr24575898lbc.115.1430844738467; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:52:18 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Joe Touch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:55:08 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: >> Hi Joe, >> >> Please see my response in this thread >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . >> >> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by indicating >> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at two >> places to determine this? > > 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values > > 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two > differently, when they should not be handled differently > > IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. +1 I think that Ethernet and NSH are not needed. NSH is not a protocol, it is some abstract data. How NSH will be encapsulated is being discussed in SFC WG. So if the payload is only IP, then why do we need the next protocol field? Behcet > > Joe > >> >> Thanks, Larry >> >> On 5/4/15 4:51 PM, "Joe Touch" wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >>>> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >>>> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. >>>> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >>>> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >>>> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >>>> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >>>> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >>>> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >>>> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >>>> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >>> >>> That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >>> reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >>>> To: nvo3@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>> >>>> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>>> >>>> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) >>>> I think I now understand better this draft. >>>> >>>> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >>>> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>>> >>>> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >>>> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>>> >>>> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >>>> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >>>> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >>>> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >>>> VM-to-VM communication. >>>> >>>> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >>>> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >>>> about VMs. >>>> >>>> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>>> >>>> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >>>> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>>> >>>> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >>>> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >>>> can convince me? >>>> >>>> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >>>> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >>>> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Behcet >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>> directories. >>>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>>> >>>>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>>>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>>>> Rajeev Manur >>>>> Larry Kreeger >>>>> Darrel Lewis >>>>> Fabio Maino >>>>> Michael Smith >>>>> Puneet Agarwal >>>>> Lucy Yong >>>>> Xiaohu Xu >>>>> Uri Elzur >>>>> Pankaj Garg >>>>> David Melman >>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>>> Pages : 22 >>>>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network >>>>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>>>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, >>>>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>>>> versioning. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>>>> >>>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >> From nobody Tue May 5 10:23:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6641A884D for ; 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Tue, 5 May 2015 12:23:24 -0500 From: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" To: Joe Touch , Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOLpFXJHVSEHkGn+pBFjDBZTZ1spfGAgAAstgCAAALGAP//r/+AgAC/rACAAEDuAA== Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 17:23:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 x-originating-ip: [10.155.166.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <15E15108AD61B841A5EB6052DC22D575@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:23:28 -0000 On 5/4/15 11:31 PM, "Joe Touch" wrote: > > >On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: >> Hi Joe, >>=20 >> Please see my response in this thread >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . >>=20 >> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by indicating >> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at two >> places to determine this? > >1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values > >2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two >differently, when they should not be handled differently > >IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. While I completely agree architecturally, when it comes down to implementations, the only downside I see are that it uses multiple Next Protocol code points. Perhaps I am not looking far beyond my own mortality, but I don't imagine there will be a huge proliferation of IP versions in the future such that this will make a significant impact. Encoding the IP version in the next protocol simplifies implementations, and requiring an additional decision based on the IP version field will not make current implementations suddenly able to handle IPv7 (or will it be v8?) when it arrives. There will be plenty of runway to allocate a VXLAN GPE code point for it before there are implementations that will know how to parse the new IP protocol. If in the future there looks to be a problem with proliferation of IP versions, a code point can always be allocated for IP (any version) for VXLAN GPE to avert the problem for my distant descendants. - Larry > >Joe > >>=20 >> Thanks, Larry >>=20 >> On 5/4/15 4:51 PM, "Joe Touch" wrote: >>=20 >>> >>> >>> On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: >>>> I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next >>>> layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an >>>>example. >>>> MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what >>>> the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS >>>> traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 >>>> then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 >>>> packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP >>>> packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. >>>> Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses >>>> and feed than into the ECMP calculation. >>> >>> That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient >>> reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya >>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM >>>> To: nvo3@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>> >>>> Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, >>>> >>>> After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors >>>>:) >>>> I think I now understand better this draft. >>>> >>>> The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My >>>> suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. >>>> >>>> Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost >>>> copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. >>>> >>>> What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data >>>> center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and >>>> always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. >>>> Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses >>>> VM-to-VM communication. >>>> >>>> In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are >>>> Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk >>>> about VMs. >>>> >>>> I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. >>>> >>>> Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of >>>> encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. >>>> >>>> Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. >>>> Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you >>>> can convince me? >>>> >>>> If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be >>>> discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. >>>> Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Behcet >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>> directories. >>>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays >>>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>>> >>>>> Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN >>>>> Authors : Paul Quinn >>>>> Rajeev Manur >>>>> Larry Kreeger >>>>> Darrel Lewis >>>>> Fabio Maino >>>>> Michael Smith >>>>> Puneet Agarwal >>>>> Lucy Yong >>>>> Xiaohu Xu >>>>> Uri Elzur >>>>> Pankaj Garg >>>>> David Melman >>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt >>>>> Pages : 22 >>>>> Date : 2015-05-01 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area >>>>>Network >>>>> (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new >>>>> capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, >>>>>operations, >>>>> administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit >>>>> versioning. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ >>>>> >>>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nvo3 mailing list >>>> nvo3@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 From nobody Tue May 5 10:35:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0FCC1A802A for ; 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Tue, 5 May 2015 13:35:09 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.21]) by MXHUB209.corp.emc.com ([10.253.68.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 5 May 2015 13:35:08 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" , William Caban , Jeff Tantsura Thread-Topic: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhHOCvqyxS80K5ESakySMXAiHHZ1slS6AgAAstQCAAALHAIAAB/eAgAAQmgCAAAmhAIAAwo6Q Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 17:35:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.13.43.179] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936487D54MX104CL02corpemcc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:35:36 -0000 --_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936487D54MX104CL02corpemcc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a completely reasonable request, and moreover, allocation of values for test and experimentation a generally good idea. For more on this topic, see RFC 3692: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc3692/ https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3692.txt Thanks, --David From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Larry Kreeger (kreeg= er) Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:54 PM To: William Caban; Jeff Tantsura Cc: Ian Cox; sarikaya@ieee.org; nvo3@ietf.org; Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Hi William, This makes sense to me. I think we could have a couple experimental values= . In fact if you look at section 9.2 you will see that there is no mention= of the values 254 or 255 (while all other values are accounted for). I th= ink these value makes sense to allocate for experimental use. - Larry From: William Caban > Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 6:19 PM To: Jeff Tantsura > Cc: Ian Cox >, "sarikaya@ieee.o= rg" >= , "nvo3@ietf.org" >, Joe Touch > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Here is a question or request to see if it makes sense. (Not sure if this i= s the right forum) With the Next Protocol values stated in the draft: This draft defines the following Next Protocol values: 0x1 : IPv4 0x2 : IPv6 0x3 : Ethernet 0x4 : Network Service Header [NSH] Understanding the rapid evolution of overlay networks and the need to suppo= rt future research in networking fields. What about including a "RAW" or "T= EST" next protocol which network researchers and academia can use to develo= p future protocols over an overlay network without having to modify the ove= rlay transport. Such extension could also be used for application vendors w= ith unique protocol requirement for "raw" communication between end points = in an overlay network. -William On May 4, 2015, at 20:20, Jeff Tantsura > wrote: That=B9s why we have been using entropy labels, ingress node has the best understanding of the context. Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Joe Touch > Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM To: Ian Cox >, "sarikaya@ieee.o= rg" >= , "nvo3@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Cox wrote: I'll provide a reason why providing intentional indication for next layer is better than essentially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example. MPLS has no indication in the label stack for intermediate nodes what the underlying payload is. To achieve better load balancing of MPLS traffic most hardware today looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6 then parse into the payload under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6 packet. The 4 or 6 guess for the underlying MPLS payload being an IP packet was fine until IEEE allocated MAC addresses starting with 6. Unintended results occur when you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses and feed than into the ECMP calculation. That sounds like a great reason to indicate "IP", but insufficient reason to indicate IPv4 vs IPv6. Joe Ian -----Original Message----- From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet Sarikaya Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 2:02 PM To: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Hi VXLAN-gpe authors, After reading many times and discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :) I think I now understand better this draft. The source of misunderstanding was the lack of problem statement. My suggestion is to clearly define what this draft is intended to solve. Due to the fact that VXLAN is mentioned so much and Section is almost copied from RFC 7248 causes a lot of confusion. What I understand is that this draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data center networks. VXLAN addresses Layer 2 data center networks and always assumes Ethernet frames in the payload. Virtual machines always generate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses VM-to-VM communication. In general not all data center networks are Layer based, i.e. some are Layer 3 based and there are no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk about VMs. I suggest that this point be clarified in the draft. Given the above, my suggestion is to remove Ethernet from the list of encapsulations and leave it to VXLAN. Given the above, I think that next protocol field is not needed. Version of IP is in the very first field in IP header. But maybe you can convince me? If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsulation of IP packets than it should be discussed in intarea list, just like GUE which is being discussed. Already Xiaohu suggested this on intarea list. Regards, Behcet On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM, > wrote: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN Authors : Paul Quinn Rajeev Manur Larry Kreeger Darrel Lewis Fabio Maino Michael Smith Puneet Agarwal Lucy Yong Xiaohu Xu Uri Elzur Pankaj Garg David Melman Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2015-05-01 Abstract: This draft describes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network (VXLAN), via changes to the VXLAN header, with three new capabilities: support for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations, administration and management (OAM) signaling and explicit versioning. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 --_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936487D54MX104CL02corpemcc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That’s a completely reasonable request, = and moreover, allocation of values

for test and experimentation a generally good = idea.

 

For more on this topic, see RFC 3692:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc3692/

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3692.txt

 

Thanks,
--David

 

From: nvo3 [ma= ilto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Larry Kreeger (kreeger)
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 9:54 PM
To: William Caban; Jeff Tantsura
Cc: Ian Cox; sarikaya@ieee.org; nvo3@ietf.org; Joe Touch
Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt

 

Hi William,

 

This makes sense to me. &nb= sp;I think we could have a couple experimental values.  In fact if you= look at section 9.2 you will see that there is no mention of the values 254 or 255 (while all other values are accounted for).  I thin= k these value makes sense to allocate for experimental use.

 

 - Larry 

 

From: William Caban <william.caban@savantadvisors.com>
Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 6:19 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <= jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
Cc: Ian Cox <icox@broadcom.c= om>, "sarikaya@ieee.org" <sarikaya@ieee.org>,= "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt

 

Here is a question or reque= st to see if it makes sense. (Not sure if this is the right forum)

 

With the Next Protocol valu= es stated in the draft:

  

This draft defines=
 the following Next Protocol values: 
 0x1 : IPv4&n=
bsp;
 0x2 : IPv6&n=
bsp;
 0x3 : Ethern=
et 
 0x4 : Networ=
k Service Header [NSH]

 
Understanding the =
rapid evolution of overlay networks and the need to support future research=
 in networking fields. What about including a "RAW" or "TEST=
" next protocol which network researchers and academia can use to deve=
lop future protocols over an overlay network without having to modify the o=
verlay transport. Such extension could also be used for application vendors=
 with unique protocol requirement for "raw" communication between=
 end points in an overlay network. =


-William


On May 4, 2015, at 20:20, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> wrote:<= /p>

That=B9s why we have been u= sing entropy labels, ingress node has the best
understanding of the context.

Cheers,
Jeff




-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu><= br> Date: Monday, May 4, 2015 at 4:51 PM
To: Ian Cox <icox@broadcom.com&= gt;, "sarikaya@ieee.org"= <sarikaya@ieee.org>,
"nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt


 

 

On 5/4/2015 4:41 PM, Ian Co= x wrote:

I'll provide a reason why p= roviding intentional indication for next

layer is better than essent= ially guessing it. Using MPLS as an example.

MPLS has no indication in t= he label stack for intermediate nodes what

the underlying payload is. = To achieve better load balancing of MPLS

traffic most hardware today= looks to see if the first nibble is 4 or 6

then parse into the payload= under the belief that it is a IPv4 or v6

packet. The 4 or 6 guess fo= r the underlying MPLS payload being an IP

packet was fine until IEEE = allocated MAC addresses starting with 6.

Unintended results occur wh= en you parse MAC addresses as IP addresses

and feed than into the ECMP= calculation.

 

That sounds like a great re= ason to indicate "IP", but insufficient

reason to indicate IPv4 vs = IPv6.

 

Joe

 

 

 

Ian

 

-----Original Message-----<= o:p>

From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Be= hcet Sarikaya

Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 = 2:02 PM

To: nvo3@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Act= ion: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt

 

Hi VXLAN-gpe authors,<= /o:p>

 

After reading many times an= d discussions with one of the 12 coauthors :)

I think I now understand be= tter this draft.

 

The source of misunderstand= ing was the lack of problem statement. My

suggestion is to clearly de= fine what this draft is intended to solve.

 

Due to the fact that VXLAN = is mentioned so much and Section is almost

copied from RFC 7248 causes= a lot of confusion.

 

What I understand is that t= his draft is addressing is non Layer 2 data

center networks. VXLAN addr= esses Layer 2 data center networks and

always assumes Ethernet fra= mes in the payload.

Virtual machines always gen= erate Layer 2 frames. VXLAN addresses

VM-to-VM communication.

 

In general not all data cen= ter networks are Layer based, i.e. some are

Layer 3 based and there are= no VMs that's why VXLAN-GPE does not talk

about VMs.

 

I suggest that this point b= e clarified in the draft.

 

Given the above, my suggest= ion is to remove Ethernet from the list of

encapsulations and leave it= to VXLAN.

 

Given the above, I think th= at next protocol field is not needed.

Version of IP is in the ver= y first field in IP header. But maybe you

can convince me?=

 

If VXLAN-gpe is UDP encapsu= lation of IP packets than it should be

discussed in intarea list, = just like GUE which is being discussed.

Already Xiaohu suggested th= is on intarea list.

 

Regards,<= /p>

 

Behcet

 

 

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:01= PM,  <internet-drafts@= ietf.org> wrote:

 

A New Internet-Draft is ava= ilable from the on-line Internet-Drafts

directories.

This draft is a work item o= f the Network Virtualization Overlays

Working Group of the IETF.<= o:p>

 

    &nb= sp;  Title          =  : Generic Protocol Extension for VXLAN

    &nb= sp;  Authors         : Pa= ul Quinn

    &nb= sp;            =         Rajeev Manur

    &nb= sp;            =         Larry Kreeger

    &nb= sp;            =         Darrel Lewis

    &nb= sp;            =         Fabio Maino

    &nb= sp;            =         Michael Smith

    &nb= sp;            =         Puneet Agarwal

    &nb= sp;            =         Lucy Yong=

    &nb= sp;            =         Xiaohu Xu=

    &nb= sp;            =         Uri Elzur=

    &nb= sp;            =         Pankaj Garg

    &nb= sp;            =         David Melman

    &nb= sp;  Filename        : draft-i= etf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt

    &nb= sp;  Pages          =  : 22

    &nb= sp;  Date          &= nbsp; : 2015-05-01

 

Abstract:=

  This draft desc= ribes extending Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network

  (VXLAN), via ch= anges to the VXLAN header, with three new

  capabilities: s= upport for multi-protocol encapsulation, operations,

  administration = and management (OAM) signaling and explicit

  versioning.

 

 

The IETF datatracker status= page for this draft is:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe/

 

There's also a htmlized ver= sion available at:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00

 

 

Please note that it may tak= e a couple of minutes from the time of

submission

until the htmlized version = and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

 

Internet-Drafts are also av= ailable by anonymous FTP at:

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

 

___________________________= ____________________

nvo3 mailing list

nvo3@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3<= o:p>

 

___________________________= ____________________

nvo3 mailing list

nvo3@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3<= o:p>

 

___________________________= ____________________

nvo3 mailing list

nvo3@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3<= o:p>

 

 

___________________________= ____________________

nvo3 mailing list

nvo3@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3<= o:p>


_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/nvo3

--_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936487D54MX104CL02corpemcc_-- From nobody Tue May 5 10:49:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472AF1A8777 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1LkkUc_vm3l for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFD6B1A8034 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45HmPlc024341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 10:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55490267.7080104@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 10:48:23 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" , Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:49:39 -0000 On 5/5/2015 10:23 AM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: ... >> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. > > While I completely agree architecturally, when it comes down to > implementations, the only downside I see are that it uses multiple Next > Protocol code points. Here are the primary downsides: a) multiple codepoints at the top level b) the need to continually add new codepoints for new versions c) (and this is the big one) NO savings in processing, in fact, it makes processing worse Not only do you need to find the version (as codepoint or within the IP header), but if you have the same information in two places you now need to verify that the two match and decide what to do when they don't. I.e., a person with one watch always knows what time it is; a person with two watches is never sure. There is simply NO utility in copying information that is equally easily available and it ONLY invites error. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 10:54:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296961A8547; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:54:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1RhlwIQLH03p; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C54161A1AA9; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45HrYKS026241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 10:53:32 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:54:18 -0000 On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, .. >> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >> >> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. > > Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not > needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks > exactly like IP in UDP. That seems impossible. The outer IP header indicates UDP as next-protocol, and GUE based on the port number. You can't then compress the GUE header to nothing. You still need at least one bit somewhere to indicate "compressed GUE header", and there's nothing left. And no, I don't think "compressed GUE" qualifies as an independently useful service that warrants a separate UDP port. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 10:59:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCCE1A8863; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:59:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22zmT9u5iywB; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8648C1A6FF5; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45HwIEG027840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 10:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 10:58:16 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [sfc] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:59:20 -0000 On 5/5/2015 10:18 AM, Dave Dolson wrote: > Joe, > I think this discussion is about fragmenting the outer IP packet. That's feasible for IPv6, but extremely limiting for IPv4 because of the limited ID field size (it would rate-limit the tunnel significantly). > There is a 3rd choice: to fragment the inner datagram, That is not valid for IPv6 or IPv6 DF=1, so unless you support only IPv4 DF=0 packets, it won't work. > and/or use ICMP "datagram is too big" messages to facilitate > PMTU discovery of the tunnel. That won't work for several reasons: - ICMPs are often blocked - ICMP might not return enough of the nested headers - ICMP cannot validly say "1280 is too big" for IPv6 (which it would need to do if the path supported only 1280, because there wouldn't be space for the additional IP header) > This certainly seems to have been the intent, when one reads about > the IPv4 DF flag. (And IPv6 always requires DF). See above; while the DF issue might be useful in some contexts, it doesn't magically get around the need to fragment in ways that are not supported by the inner header. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:33 PM > To: Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org > Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip > > > > On 5/4/2015 7:23 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >> In a word, IP-in-UDP is just intended for those network environments >> where fragmentation on the tunnel layer and strong checksums are not >> desired. > > That's insufficient. They are only applicable where fragmentation and a > strong checksum are not *needed*. > > Once you run IP in IP (IP in UDP in IP qualifies as this), you have only > two choices: > > - support fragmentation > > - use in networks that are engineered so that > fragmentation is never needed > > As to the strong checksum, similarly you have to either support one or > deploy the result where that checksum isn't needed - either because you > know that all apps will have strong enough checksums of their own or > because you know enough about the kinds of errors that will occur that > strong checksums aren't needed. > > But the key there is to define a use case where these properties are > true AND to limit the document solution to uses in those case ONLY. > >> For those network environments where fragmentation on the >> tunnel layer and stronger checksums are required, GUE should be >> considered instead. > > Agreed. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Tue May 5 11:07:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9908C1B2F1A for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:07:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1sUTkK1f40nk for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com (mail-ie0-f171.google.com [209.85.223.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A176D1B2F2B for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ieczm2 with SMTP id zm2so9355485iec.2 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=DK7+ZueeMZT5tojJpdbDyrwmx78NK6nEvQLpLr1mNTM=; b=O+aImagz7i9P8vL/iQBQsxuIB483n9t/MOpzMF+ggBdwhzCam+uFATYMvlR/i3im+Z Ps9xnTqm327oXpQ1bvyxVqcfiohTE4vv/bvbyySagLLVHYH/G3LCtBKFhGPeAvywJwss srJeS50vEVaVqKdrV+WZLpsLrDxH9DihfGlCXegwJvqMP6Lztc7y40aKoiOcbSMQgSpR kYKy2JwQvpuHcW4YKMfUJKHrzmFnScIrkSy4NtkPKF0+osIoa6TLQgP6S/A1jIKvoXtn WdRfLNtRVRBdNN7oxb5OxYchHjlAHJByQjBHOhwpQAm3aAt1rg9R/Hpv4WGITRTaHl0X PWoQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmJR6NDPhgqSKNEC8QejQY718nhyMbqyG8vTlpph7Fcd8o4GrY5rB0CPDlNqxtVxC18zopo MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.90.179 with SMTP id bx19mr3382248igb.43.1430849173127; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.160.2 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:06:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: Joe Touch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Templin, Fred L" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:07:46 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> Hi Joe, > .. >>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >>> >>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >> >> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >> exactly like IP in UDP. > > That seems impossible. > > The outer IP header indicates UDP as next-protocol, and GUE based on the > port number. > > You can't then compress the GUE header to nothing. You still need at > least one bit somewhere to indicate "compressed GUE header", and there's > nothing left. > As I described previously, the first two bits of GUE header are version number. If we reserve version 0x1, then an IPv6 or IPv4 can be directly encapsulated on the same port with GUE (version 0)-- this is what Fred means by GUE header compression. No new port is needed for this and it is backwards compatible with GUE. > And no, I don't think "compressed GUE" qualifies as an independently > useful service that warrants a separate UDP port. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Tue May 5 11:26:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48D51A9095; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:26:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fsuIyYls6Lnd; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D94281A92E9; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45IQBa6000332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 11:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 11:26:09 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-ID: t45IQBa6000332 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:26:50 -0000 On 5/5/2015 11:04 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:54 AM >> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >> .. >>>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >>>> >>>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >>>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >>>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >>> >>> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >>> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >>> exactly like IP in UDP. >> >> That seems impossible. > > Not impossible - Tom Herbert provided the solution: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04593.html That is allocating bits (or bit patterns) from the IP header. The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. The only solution would be to say that if the first three bits were 0, then it's not an IP packet - but that would require reassigning 0x0000 and 0x0001 for GUE purposes. Although that's possible, I don't see why we would allocate IP versions to GUE message types. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 11:42:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAB01B2F57 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:42:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AfuB3WV-Br_v for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com (mail-qc0-f178.google.com [209.85.216.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEB7F1A873D for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcbgu10 with SMTP id gu10so52580512qcb.2 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=0Evk5UL6/iuK+uU1nOD1SRIAzwlTfpVVN/kvlw5LYFk=; b=Xqhw/5YZp1UEu8fvLBHvdg1zbGSOnUQHVq8nDiz6D5JWm2Kl3xg+mcfXU6z+jp1WnZ MhIp+y5q/KBc+5LXjtRKVTmvQMvnL4/e+vTNaqQ/kDngmfShaQeQvjFRKM3RN4NLm2nn pcZ9TYQusLR3K2+HPVO7GN2OuIyL2PNQYGuWmnFPnmFGchkRLPJ1wPxtd8c1vXUC0b+7 /f/9f5G9WfOw4XoqSFhDLMydxE257h2CMEJT3A06/6AjPJ2P4gPsifbT7vsI8Gt/1z82 l9YX9OjUKedLwVJg2j5UAKIEYgcEanv198Bw/+HtmsRbknwiG9crK6JJsFeu3OhjqJ0X 9jsA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkrMXUUBjOTc01G1gd1UBwtsL5+7/HYnlwe6QIwtWz2dW/FY7XUW0fNQlj1vrLP3kvzFGAm X-Received: by 10.140.108.74 with SMTP id i68mr34661996qgf.73.1430851324034; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.125.131.223] (C8ECD95E.static.tesa.net.br. [200.236.217.94]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f131sm22971007qhc.47.2015.05.05.11.42.01 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 May 2015 11:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: William Caban In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 14:41:58 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5D9CD9C2-8EC7-491C-9243-62916D6377B6@savantadvisors.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> To: sarikaya@ieee.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:42:53 -0000 > On May 5, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Behcet Sarikaya = wrote: >=20 > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >>>=20 >>> Please see my response in this thread >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . >>>=20 >>> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by = indicating >>> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at = two >>> places to determine this? >>=20 >> 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values >>=20 >> 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two >> differently, when they should not be handled differently >>=20 >> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. >=20 > +1 >=20 > I think that Ethernet and NSH are not needed. NSH is not a protocol, > it is some abstract data. How NSH will be encapsulated is being > discussed in SFC WG. > So if the payload is only IP, then why do we need the next protocol = field? >=20 > Behcet Next Protocol Ethernet type is needed for scenarios where you want to = encapsulate Ethernet based protocols which do not use IP (i.e. VLAN, = FCoE, etc). _William From nobody Tue May 5 11:46:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7039F1A9163 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vRhtjFJAolZm for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com (mail-ig0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D90F51AC3AB for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igblo3 with SMTP id lo3so106978233igb.0 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=aU/+ZwFdJf4nDkBlrnZ1tkG00OanJ8hRCMk9b5RgQNQ=; b=arWPRvQgVtKLd3BuIO0R9DlA+LR8qn95vtTVoh/crKIrpyFyQljvQ3yz9I1B4lhsGT 7yDGWavuWF2oBIlHawYavJIqhkDM+LuxtMgf3CzlfAwdr81YRDsmpN6FMQJc0A3IMSku cnYB7gcIJo8QSRFTMwViivHCwc3R7Ecd8FAY5le8ZSUsxDANtscwAdIMk86E3Sxy2+uI 3SFjwROVu/ceRz5YpB8HS3XiT0Qam0HKOAS1ZT4I/lqrO1FJpet3cpRPSXFjf/QSv+Lz IGboWwV9gVMN86yuVf7dLkXatC758cllzejjhvA0hqQwuXgJVNJYQtbv8PwGsDV+tNLH BWFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnXl/OxXVAhv+grwe3NRC63vuk5xE1yNV1OreLl2hUOwV7uqi1twf7m1YbluhRz5tdnPrjj MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.128.149 with SMTP id k21mr35170100ioi.7.1430851550601; Tue, 05 May 2015 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.160.2 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:45:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: Joe Touch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Templin, Fred L" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:45:54 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > On 5/5/2015 11:04 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> Hi Joe, >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:54 AM >>> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >>> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>>> Hi Joe, >>> .. >>>>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >>>>> >>>>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >>>>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >>>>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >>>> >>>> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >>>> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >>>> exactly like IP in UDP. >>> >>> That seems impossible. >> >> Not impossible - Tom Herbert provided the solution: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04593.html > > That is allocating bits (or bit patterns) from the IP header. > > The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have > versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. > It is correct as we defined it-- this is a solution to support direct encapsulation of only IPv4 and IPv6. This optimizes encapsulation those two IP protocols, and does not effect encapsulation of other protocols (including new versions of IP) using the GUE and header and protocol field. Whether this optimization is worth it is a fair question, but if this obviates the need for a separate port number in UDP-IP maybe it would be. > The only solution would be to say that if the first three bits were 0, > then it's not an IP packet - but that would require reassigning 0x0000 > and 0x0001 for GUE purposes. > > Although that's possible, I don't see why we would allocate IP versions > to GUE message types. > We're not proposing that at all. > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > trill mailing list > trill@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill From nobody Tue May 5 11:53:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB3F1B2F7E for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xjppBOZ2OVQY for ; 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Tue, 05 May 2015 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.160.2 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:53:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: "Templin, Fred L" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Joe Touch , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:53:26 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 11:26 AM >> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 11:04 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> > Hi Joe, >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:54 AM >> >> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe, >> >> .. >> >>>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >> >>>> >> >>>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >> >>>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >> >>>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >> >>> >> >>> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >> >>> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >> >>> exactly like IP in UDP. >> >> >> >> That seems impossible. >> > >> > Not impossible - Tom Herbert provided the solution: >> > >> > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04593.html >> >> That is allocating bits (or bit patterns) from the IP header. >> >> The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have >> versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. > > The version field in both IPv4 and IPv6 have that bit set to 1. If GUE > then deems that bit to indicate "direct IP encapsulation, then there > is no need for a GUE header of length greater than 0. > > You may say that future IP protocol versions might not have that bit > set in the version field. But, the version bits for IPv4 and IPv6 will > never change (by definition) and we do not see a new IP protocol > version replacing IPv4 or IPv6 on the near-term horizon. > > Even if a new IP protocol version emerged with the "direct IP > encapsulation" bit set to 0, that version can still be accommodated > by GUE. It's just that direct encapsulation cannot be used and a > non-zero-length GUE header is needed. > Or just define a simple version translation as part of encapsulation. So for IPv8: 0x1000->0x0101 on encapsulation 0x0101->0x1000 on decapsualtion > Thanks - Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com > >> The only solution would be to say that if the first three bits were 0, >> then it's not an IP packet - but that would require reassigning 0x0000 >> and 0x0001 for GUE purposes. >> >> Although that's possible, I don't see why we would allocate IP versions >> to GUE message types. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > trill mailing list > trill@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill From nobody Tue May 5 12:31:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51981A87BD; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x0ibCGa_o6J4; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA7321A873D; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45JTSHG004607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55491A18.6080309@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:29:28 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Herbert References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Templin, Fred L" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 19:30:57 -0000 On 5/5/2015 11:45 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: >> > The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have >> > versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. >> > > It is correct as we defined it-- this is a solution to support direct > encapsulation of only IPv4 and IPv6. This optimizes encapsulation > those two IP protocols, and does not effect encapsulation of other > protocols (including new versions of IP) using the GUE and header and > protocol field. Whether this optimization is worth it is a fair > question, but if this obviates the need for a separate port number in > UDP-IP maybe it would be. > >> > The only solution would be to say that if the first three bits were 0, >> > then it's not an IP packet - but that would require reassigning 0x0000 >> > and 0x0001 for GUE purposes. >> > >> > Although that's possible, I don't see why we would allocate IP versions >> > to GUE message types. >> > > We're not proposing that at all. Then the solution is incorrect. As noted above, if you don't know you "own" the patterns, you don't know you can use them to indicate "non-compressed GUE header" because they are valid uncompressed IP packets. A field you don't reserve isn't yours to assume. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 12:34:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EE01ACDD3; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:34:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fCTDgU9x3jYU; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5DFA1A87BD; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45JXHkJ005267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 12:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55491AFD.8000306@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:33:17 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 19:34:03 -0000 On 5/5/2015 11:47 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 11:26 AM >> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 11:04 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:54 AM >>>> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >>>> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>>>> Hi Joe, >>>> .. >>>>>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >>>>>> >>>>>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >>>>>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >>>>>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >>>>> >>>>> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >>>>> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >>>>> exactly like IP in UDP. >>>> >>>> That seems impossible. >>> >>> Not impossible - Tom Herbert provided the solution: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04593.html >> >> That is allocating bits (or bit patterns) from the IP header. >> >> The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have >> versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. > > The version field in both IPv4 and IPv6 have that bit set to 1. If GUE > then deems that bit to indicate "direct IP encapsulation, then there > is no need for a GUE header of length greater than 0. > > You may say that future IP protocol versions might not have that bit > set in the version field. But, the version bits for IPv4 and IPv6 will > never change (by definition) and we do not see a new IP protocol > version replacing IPv4 or IPv6 on the near-term horizon. 0x01 is valid for four version numbers: 4 5 6 7 You cannot assume either that 0x01 always means IPv4 and IPv6 only OR that any other pattern is NOT an IP packet UNLESS GUE is assigned the values you are assuming (e.g., 0x00, 0x10, 0x11), and that's not going to happen. As I said on the other post: Codepoints you aren't assigned aren't yours to assume. > Even if a new IP protocol version emerged with the "direct IP > encapsulation" bit set to 0, that version can still be accommodated > by GUE. It's just that direct encapsulation cannot be used and a > non-zero-length GUE header is needed. It's more than that - you need to ensure that all other IP values are NOT interpreted as uncompressed. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 12:35:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6461B305E; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:35:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESUJsJWP1_7E; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEFD71B303A; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45JYWwE005373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 12:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55491B47.4060400@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:34:31 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Herbert , "Templin, Fred L" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 19:35:38 -0000 On 5/5/2015 11:53 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: >> Hi Joe, >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 11:26 AM >>> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >>> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/5/2015 11:04 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>>> Hi Joe, >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:54 AM >>>>> To: Templin, Fred L; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/5/2015 9:39 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>>>>> Hi Joe, >>>>> .. >>>>>>> IP in UDP adds only port numbers and an Internet checksum. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That doesn't address fragmentation; if outer fragmentation is assumed, >>>>>>> IPv4 needs to be rate-limited to avoid ID collisions and the Internet >>>>>>> checksum is insufficient to correct those collisions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right - that is why we have GUE. But, when these functions are not >>>>>> needed GUE can perform header compression and the result looks >>>>>> exactly like IP in UDP. >>>>> >>>>> That seems impossible. >>>> >>>> Not impossible - Tom Herbert provided the solution: >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04593.html >>> >>> That is allocating bits (or bit patterns) from the IP header. >>> >>> The solution provided - to check for 0x01 - is incorrect. IP can have >>> versions that include 0x10 and 0x11. >> >> The version field in both IPv4 and IPv6 have that bit set to 1. If GUE >> then deems that bit to indicate "direct IP encapsulation, then there >> is no need for a GUE header of length greater than 0. >> >> You may say that future IP protocol versions might not have that bit >> set in the version field. But, the version bits for IPv4 and IPv6 will >> never change (by definition) and we do not see a new IP protocol >> version replacing IPv4 or IPv6 on the near-term horizon. >> >> Even if a new IP protocol version emerged with the "direct IP >> encapsulation" bit set to 0, that version can still be accommodated >> by GUE. It's just that direct encapsulation cannot be used and a >> non-zero-length GUE header is needed. >> > Or just define a simple version translation as part of encapsulation. > So for IPv8: > > 0x1000->0x0101 on encapsulation > 0x0101->0x1000 on decapsualtion And what happens to 0x0101 WHEN it shows up? You need more patterns than you have because IP is allowed to use any of them. That's why you need an extra bit, and that's why you can't assume these bits are "yours". Joe From nobody Tue May 5 12:42:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DBE1ACDDA; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CVerbjc2yk7x; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8CC81ACDBF; Tue, 5 May 2015 12:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45JfYn7006781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55491CED.5070505@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:41:33 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Herbert , "Templin, Fred L" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55491B47.4060400@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <55491B47.4060400@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" , Donald Eastlake , Xuxiaohu Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 19:42:20 -0000 On 5/5/2015 12:34 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >> Or just define a simple version translation as part of encapsulation. >> > So for IPv8: >> > >> > 0x1000->0x0101 on encapsulation >> > 0x0101->0x1000 on decapsualtion > And what happens to 0x0101 WHEN it shows up? > > You need more patterns than you have because IP is allowed to use any of > them. FWIW, you're essentially arguing for bit-stuffing, i.e., if a pattern you think will be common shows up, don't stuff, and if something else shows up, then do. That works only if you do true stuffing, e.g.,: 0x01** = uncompressed (might as well add 0x11** and 0x10** to that) 0x00** = compressed But then if 0x0000, 0x0001, 0x0010 or 0x0011 show up, you need to decide how to represent them - they CANNOT be uncompressed without at least two more bits somewhere else that indicates they're uncompressed and their value. So now your GUE methods are very sensitive to IP version numbers, which IMO defeats the "G" in the name. Never mind how this complicates hardware when (not if) other IP versions are used (for whatever reason). Joe From nobody Tue May 5 14:08:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48721B2A34; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NpV89SQZuPOw; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5272C1B29AB; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45L7lbA028853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 14:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55493122.1050504@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 14:07:46 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55491AFD.8000306@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AD42@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AD42@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-ID: t45L7lbA028853 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 21:08:44 -0000 On 5/5/2015 12:42 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> > You cannot assume either that 0x01 always means IPv4 and IPv6 only OR >> > that any other pattern is NOT an IP packet UNLESS GUE is assigned the >> > values you are assuming (e.g., 0x00, 0x10, 0x11), and that's not going >> > to happen. > > You are making this way more complicated than it really is. 0xX1XX means > that this is an IP header - at this moment, either IPv4 or IPv6. But, having > checked the bit the next step is to test the entire nibble to ensure that it > is indeed either 0x0100 or 0x0110. And, if it is neither, the packet is > dropped due to a malformed header. OK, you can declare that. But you are then declaring that the other IP versions with the same pattern cannot be transmitted as uncompressed GUE. > But, 0xX0XX means that the GUE header is present. There is no ambiguity > here, and it just works. You can *declare* that 0xX0XX means a GUE header, but then you are also declaring that 0xX0XX IP versions cannot occur as uncompressed GUE encapsulations. There are implications to these assumptions. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 14:11:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FCC1B2A4A; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSWb588f-N_R; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FE791A1BC3; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45LAxWr029515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 14:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554931E2.5010101@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 14:10:58 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-ID: t45LAxWr029515 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [sfc] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 21:11:34 -0000 On 5/5/2015 1:34 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > For IPv6, if the packet doesn't fit in the tunnel, the ICMP6 "too big" > message is sent, and the sender fragments it, sends it again, and notes > the PMTU for future packets. This is how IPv6 fragmentation is supported. If the ICMP is received (and not blocked). If the ICMP has enough information for the tunnel source to know what happened. But this also then means that the tunnel egress will need to reassemble. > Some of your arguments are that implementations are broken so ICMP doesn't > work. I don't buy that. When the internet doesn't work, it gets fixed or > the customers go away. See RFC 4821. This issue has been known for a long time, and that's why the IETF developed an alternative that doesn't depend on ICMP receipt. > Your one argument I think may be valid is the IPv6 1280 requirement. > Let's say N levels of tunneling are required to reduce 1500 bytes to 1280 bytes. > The person who wants to do the (N+1)th overlay either cannot do it, or they resort > to fragmentation of the outer layer. > > Nonetheless, the approach of reducing Path-MTU is a valid 3rd choice, provided it is > not reduced below 1280. The better solution would be RFC 4821-style probing by the tunnel ingress to the tunnel egress. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 15:00:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1BD1A700D; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LPDoTXAazXjV; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 584C71A6FFC; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45Lwg8v008590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55493D10.90609@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 14:58:40 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> <554931E2.5010101@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AF3A@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AF3A@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 22:00:13 -0000 On 5/5/2015 2:23 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> The better solution would be RFC 4821-style probing by the tunnel >> ingress to the tunnel egress. > > As you know, I agree with this (per Section 3.13 of AERO) but it is not > exactly like RFC4821. With RFC4821, since the source of the probes is > also the original source of the data packets (and, since the probes are > actually data packets themselves) the probes are guaranteed to travel > the same network path as the data packets. That depends on how you implement the tunnels. You can easily use the data packets as probes if you design a way for the egress to indicate which probes get through. T> When the tunnel probes, however, it may be probing on behalf of many > original sources and it becomes more difficult to ensure that the probes > travel the same network path as the data packets. That's true only if the network looks into the tunnel packets and treats them differently - which could have happened for any application packets too. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 15:24:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C591B2A5E; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:24:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqIHNpQDKBRC; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webspace.isi.edu (webspace.isi.edu [128.9.64.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04D861B2A58; Tue, 5 May 2015 15:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t45MMvfp015483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 15:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554942C0.4000601@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 15:22:56 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> <554931E2.5010101@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AF3A@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55493D10.90609@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AFC1@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AFC1@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 22:24:11 -0000 On 5/5/2015 3:15 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 2:59 PM >> To: Templin, Fred L; Dave Dolson; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 2:23 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>>> The better solution would be RFC 4821-style probing by the tunnel >>>> ingress to the tunnel egress. >>> >>> As you know, I agree with this (per Section 3.13 of AERO) but it is not >>> exactly like RFC4821. With RFC4821, since the source of the probes is >>> also the original source of the data packets (and, since the probes are >>> actually data packets themselves) the probes are guaranteed to travel >>> the same network path as the data packets. >> >> That depends on how you implement the tunnels. You can easily use the >> data packets as probes if you design a way for the egress to indicate >> which probes get through. >> >> T> When the tunnel probes, however, it may be probing on behalf of many >>> original sources and it becomes more difficult to ensure that the probes >>> travel the same network path as the data packets. >> >> That's true only if the network looks into the tunnel packets and treats >> them differently - which could have happened for any application packets >> too. > > No, look at Section 5.2 of RFC4821. It acknowledges that MTU needs to be > maintained on a per-flow basis. When the source is the originator of the > flows, it is easy to keep track of which MTUs are associated with which > flows. When the source is a tunnel ingress, however, Then the tunnel is the source of the flows. Full stop. Any association between the tunnel flows and the flows arriving at the tunnel ingress is the responsibility of the tunnel to maintain. > it may be required > to send the data packets of many flows across the tunnel to the egress > and, if the network can distinguish the different flows, Then what you're saying is that the tunnel ingress - as an app - has flows that are distinguishable by the net. That can happen with any application. > the data packets > and probe packets may take different paths. That can happen with any application. > What this means is that, for tunnels over IPv6, the ingress would need > to implement a discipline for setting the flow label in the encapsulation > header so that the probes and data packets appear to be part of the > same flow. The probe packets can be the data packets. The egress can simply send information back about what data packets succeed. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 17:28:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B251B2A98; Tue, 5 May 2015 17:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mYNu2D8sP-x9; Tue, 5 May 2015 17:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59C401B2A27; Tue, 5 May 2015 17:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [169.228.177.133] ([169.228.177.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t460RXSA000400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2015 17:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55495FF4.7000100@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:27:32 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> <554931E2.5010101@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AF3A@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55493D10.90609@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AFC1@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <554942C0.4000601@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B040@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B040@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-ID: t460RXSA000400 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 00:28:13 -0000 On 5/5/2015 3:43 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >> Then what you're saying is that the tunnel ingress - as an app - has >> > flows that are distinguishable by the net. That can happen with any >> > application. > > But, that's just it - when the original source does the probing the data > packets are always part of the same application - always. When the > tunnel ingress probes, it may be asked to encapsulate the data > pacekts of many applications. An "application" is a source of packets. At a tunnel, the ingress arriving packets are that source - they ARE the "application". To correlate flow IDs to behavior within that flow - i.e., to the user programs that generate the packets that arrive at the ingress - requires the ingress to somehow infer those flows, unless they're explicitly marked by the user applications. That's a known limitation of any tunnel ingress. It's equally true of the user application if there are four people using one application, and you want 'flow' to map back to an individual person. Joe From nobody Tue May 5 19:31:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F2B1ACE84 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:31:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VcspDgpF-BaE for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f173.google.com (mail-ie0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74AAC1AC3E4 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iecnq11 with SMTP id nq11so4123184iec.3 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 19:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=zfYLT515phpVo5xKj5mWi9EjDcEaT9fZ4d6+bssLdM0=; b=itGRLMr8XatRXIxxndFhroj6wdx2Zz3YAnN83cyC5fTSNrNSQJlxfeQEArNITssdSV P+elhNCy5nG/oivRwlgKUndVrXYXoZ0yeS0oTIg8gXWFGPC6o3uVqQgDgnY9Iqn2+HyU tlfSEyVM8OOQM33TFenI4imFh4E1PNUS1xW/fpZG4CDXmgjcV/OPULuFeoybT7LlL0RE kj3CIh1hc0DzaFasn8c6gpUA7UI/swr1oa1I+acgV1vJscv/LDwJ+gOskNEJM0qEvKpG ro25rBzGaEkuKWbx69X1vPQK9c04I+vcbCwrojMUTnP9wT9mB6LS5WHZRXPc9w+OMoJS fofg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYWA4GOB569CsLbxuu729Zxm5DqXKiXpQjLivHZ07Q0lIwhrnfCHyQ26fy3FWniHoD8XMU MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.114.70 with SMTP id je6mr488388igb.43.1430879477890; Tue, 05 May 2015 19:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.160.2 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:31:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55490267.7080104@isi.edu> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> <55490267.7080104@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 19:31:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: Joe Touch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 02:31:21 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > On 5/5/2015 10:23 AM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: > ... >>> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. >> >> While I completely agree architecturally, when it comes down to >> implementations, the only downside I see are that it uses multiple Next >> Protocol code points. > > Here are the primary downsides: > > a) multiple codepoints at the top level > > b) the need to continually add new codepoints for new versions > > c) (and this is the big one) > NO savings in processing, in fact, it makes processing worse > > Not only do you need to find the version (as codepoint or within the IP > header), but if you have the same information in two places you now need > to verify that the two match and decide what to do when they don't. > If they don't match the packet should dropped-- this behavior is already implemented. > I.e., a person with one watch always knows what time it is; a person > with two watches is never sure. > To follow through with your analogy, a person with one watch can give the time but has no way to say that it is correct. A person with two watches can not only give the time but also an assurance that the time is correct (when the times on the watches match). Redundant information in a packet is the basis for verifying the packet against corruption. Since, the IPv6 version number is not protected by any IP layer checksum, a single bit flip can change an IPv4 packet into an IPv6 packet without detection. With version specific code-points we have another method to detect this corruption. > There is simply NO utility in copying information that is equally easily > available and it ONLY invites error. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Tue May 5 19:46:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8B61B2A4C; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:46:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oUcOKyjmMR4h; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 755631B2A49; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVS04898; Wed, 06 May 2015 02:46:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 6 May 2015 03:46:36 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 6 May 2015 10:46:32 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , Tom Herbert , "Templin, Fred L" Thread-Topic: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip Thread-Index: AQHQhDAYoLZIFwke90qEGncpXxc1v51nAPgAgAQl8XCAAFTXgIABIiUAgABaUYCAABwmAIAAAU+AgAAUpQCAAAMpgIAABfSAgAAF9wCAAAGigIAAC4GAgAAB94CAAPvFMA== Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 02:46:32 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832ABC2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55491B47.4060400@isi.edu> <55491CED.5070505@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <55491CED.5070505@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Donald Eastlake , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 02:46:41 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogSm9lIFRvdWNoIFttYWls dG86dG91Y2hAaXNpLmVkdV0NCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBNYXkgMDYsIDIwMTUgMzo0MiBB TQ0KPiBUbzogVG9tIEhlcmJlcnQ7IFRlbXBsaW4sIEZyZWQgTA0KPiBDYzogWHV4aWFvaHU7IERv bmFsZCBFYXN0bGFrZTsgdHJpbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IG52bzNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGludC1hcmVhQGll dGYub3JnOw0KPiBzZmNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFt0cmlsbF0gRndkOiBNYWls IHJlZ2FyZGluZyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXRyaWxsLW92ZXItaXANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gT24gNS81 LzIwMTUgMTI6MzQgUE0sIEpvZSBUb3VjaCB3cm90ZToNCj4gPj4gT3IganVzdCBkZWZpbmUgYSBz aW1wbGUgdmVyc2lvbiB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBhcyBwYXJ0IG9mIGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24uDQo+ID4+ ID4gU28gZm9yIElQdjg6DQo+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPiAweDEwMDAtPjB4MDEwMSBvbiBlbmNhcHN1 bGF0aW9uDQo+ID4+ID4gMHgwMTAxLT4weDEwMDAgb24gZGVjYXBzdWFsdGlvbg0KPiA+IEFuZCB3 aGF0IGhhcHBlbnMgdG8gMHgwMTAxIFdIRU4gaXQgc2hvd3MgdXA/DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBZb3UgbmVl ZCBtb3JlIHBhdHRlcm5zIHRoYW4geW91IGhhdmUgYmVjYXVzZSBJUCBpcyBhbGxvd2VkIHRvIHVz ZSBhbnkNCj4gPiBvZiB0aGVtLg0KPiANCj4gRldJVywgeW91J3JlIGVzc2VudGlhbGx5IGFyZ3Vp bmcgZm9yIGJpdC1zdHVmZmluZywgaS5lLiwgaWYgYSBwYXR0ZXJuIHlvdSB0aGluayB3aWxsDQo+ IGJlIGNvbW1vbiBzaG93cyB1cCwgZG9uJ3Qgc3R1ZmYsIGFuZCBpZiBzb21ldGhpbmcgZWxzZSBz aG93cyB1cCwgdGhlbiBkby4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYXQgd29ya3Mgb25seSBpZiB5b3UgZG8gdHJ1ZSBz dHVmZmluZywgZS5nLiw6DQo+IA0KPiAJMHgwMSoqID0gdW5jb21wcmVzc2VkDQo+IChtaWdodCBh cyB3ZWxsIGFkZCAweDExKiogYW5kIDB4MTAqKiB0byB0aGF0KQ0KPiAJMHgwMCoqID0gY29tcHJl c3NlZA0KPiANCj4gQnV0IHRoZW4gaWYgMHgwMDAwLCAweDAwMDEsIDB4MDAxMCBvciAweDAwMTEg c2hvdyB1cCwgeW91IG5lZWQgdG8gZGVjaWRlDQo+IGhvdyB0byByZXByZXNlbnQgdGhlbSAtIHRo ZXkgQ0FOTk9UIGJlIHVuY29tcHJlc3NlZCB3aXRob3V0IGF0IGxlYXN0IHR3bw0KPiBtb3JlIGJp dHMgc29tZXdoZXJlIGVsc2UgdGhhdCBpbmRpY2F0ZXMgdGhleSdyZSB1bmNvbXByZXNzZWQgYW5k IHRoZWlyIHZhbHVlLg0KPiANCj4gU28gbm93IHlvdXIgR1VFIG1ldGhvZHMgYXJlIHZlcnkgc2Vu c2l0aXZlIHRvIElQIHZlcnNpb24gbnVtYmVycywgd2hpY2ggSU1PDQo+IGRlZmVhdHMgdGhlICJH IiBpbiB0aGUgbmFtZS4gTmV2ZXIgbWluZCBob3cgdGhpcyBjb21wbGljYXRlcyBoYXJkd2FyZSB3 aGVuDQoNCkFncmVlLiBBcyBJIGhhZCBtZW50aW9uZWQgdG8gVG9tIGluIHByaXZhdGUsIEkgZG8g YmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBjYXBhYmlsaXR5IG9mIEdVRSAoZS5nLiwgZnJhZ21lbnRh dGlvbikgd291bGQgYmUgbXVjaCB1c2VmdWwgaW4gc29tZSBuZXR3b3JrIGVudmlyb25tZW50cy4g SG93ZXZlciwgc2luY2UgR1VFIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIHRvIGJlIGEgZ2VuZXJpYyBVRFAgZW5jYXBz dWxhdGlvbiBhcHByb2FjaCwgd2UnZCBiZXR0ZXIgZGVzaWduIGl0IGFzIGdlbmVyaWMgYW5kIGZ1 dHVyZS1wcm9vZiBhcyBwb3NzaWJsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcsIHNwZWNpZmljYWxseSBz cGVha2luZywgd2l0aG91dCBiZWluZyBkZWVwbHkgaW5mbHVlbmNlZCBieSBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIg R1VFIHBheWxvYWQgdHlwZS4gSWYgYm90aCBmb28taW4tR1VFIChmb28gY291bGQgYmUgTlNILCBU UklMTC4uLikgYW5kIGZvby1pbi1VRFAgKGkuZS4sIGEgY29tcGFjdCB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIGZvby1p bi1HVUUpIGFyZSBuZWVkZWQgc29tZWRheSwgY291bGQgeW91IHN0aWxsIGFjaGlldmUgdGhlIHNh bWUgZWZmZWN0IGFzIHRoYXQgZm9yIElQLWluLVVEUCAoYXMgYSBjb21wYWN0IElQLWluLUdVRSkg YW5kIElQLWluLUdVRT8NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KWGlhb2h1DQoNCj4gKG5vdCBpZikgb3Ro ZXIgSVAgdmVyc2lvbnMgYXJlIHVzZWQgKGZvciB3aGF0ZXZlciByZWFzb24pLg0KPiANCj4gSm9l DQo+IA0KPiANCg0K From nobody Tue May 5 19:54:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8121ACDE6; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:54:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rHZM_gymBAh3; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE6671A89AB; Tue, 5 May 2015 19:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSE46487; Wed, 06 May 2015 02:54:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 6 May 2015 03:54:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 6 May 2015 10:53:55 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip Thread-Index: AQHQhDAYoLZIFwke90qEGncpXxc1v51nAPgAgAQl8XCAAFTXgIABIiUAgAB14ICAATG/kA== Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 02:53:54 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832ABD8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 02:54:06 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 12:33 AM > To: Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org > Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 5/4/2015 7:23 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > In a word, IP-in-UDP is just intended for those network environments > > where fragmentation on the tunnel layer and strong checksums are not > > desired. >=20 > That's insufficient. They are only applicable where fragmentation and a s= trong > checksum are not *needed*. Agree that "needed" is a more appropriate word. > Once you run IP in IP (IP in UDP in IP qualifies as this), you have only = two > choices: >=20 > - support fragmentation >=20 > - use in networks that are engineered so that > fragmentation is never needed >=20 > As to the strong checksum, similarly you have to either support one or de= ploy > the result where that checksum isn't needed - either because you know tha= t all > apps will have strong enough checksums of their own or because you know > enough about the kinds of errors that will occur that strong checksums ar= en't > needed. >=20 > But the key there is to define a use case where these properties are true= AND to > limit the document solution to uses in those case ONLY. The use case is the Softwire networks (including both mesh and hub-spoke mo= des) where IP-in-IP and IP-in-GRE are good enough to address the MTU and ch= ecksum issues. Best regards, Xiaohu > > For those network environments where fragmentation on the tunnel layer > > and stronger checksums are required, GUE should be considered instead. >=20 > Agreed. >=20 > Joe From nobody Wed May 6 11:16:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A471B2E0E; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:16:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id krMa5gej3LEl; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEDD71B2E0B; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.9.160.252] (pen.isi.edu [128.9.160.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t46IFYjY010703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 6 May 2015 11:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554A5A45.2040802@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:15:33 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" , Dave Dolson , Xuxiaohu , Donald Eastlake , "trill@ietf.org" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5548F0B3.80602@isi.edu> <554904B8.9020504@isi.edu> <554931E2.5010101@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AF3A@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55493D10.90609@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AFC1@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <554942C0.4000601@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B040@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55495FF4.7000100@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B85B@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B85B@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 18:16:33 -0000 On 5/6/2015 7:37 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Joe, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 5:28 PM >> To: Templin, Fred L; Dave Dolson; Xuxiaohu; Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Cc: nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> >> >> On 5/5/2015 3:43 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote: >>>> Then what you're saying is that the tunnel ingress - as an app - has >>>>> flows that are distinguishable by the net. That can happen with any >>>>> application. >>> >>> But, that's just it - when the original source does the probing the data >>> packets are always part of the same application - always. When the >>> tunnel ingress probes, it may be asked to encapsulate the data >>> pacekts of many applications. >> >> An "application" is a source of packets. >> >> At a tunnel, the ingress arriving packets are that source - they ARE the >> "application". >> >> To correlate flow IDs to behavior within that flow - i.e., to the user >> programs that generate the packets that arrive at the ingress - requires >> the ingress to somehow infer those flows, unless they're explicitly >> marked by the user applications. >> >> That's a known limitation of any tunnel ingress. It's equally true of >> the user application if there are four people using one application, and >> you want 'flow' to map back to an individual person. > > We are still not reaching. The concern is that if some tunneled packets > take a different network path than others then there is a chance that > the probes will take a different path than the data. The only way I know > to prevent that is to always set the Flow Label in the encapsulation > header to some fixed value (e.g., 0). You need to track ANY packet difference that could cause a path difference. That could include: - flow label - packet length - traffic class - next-header The only things that all tunneled packets have in common are source and destination address. ANY other field that varies is a potential source of path variance. By your logic, PLMTUD would never work at all, and PMTUD only ever tells you about a specific set of the above fields failing. Yes, if you want to avoid that issue, you need to minimize any differences that could affect path. But that's *already true for all uses of PLMTUD or PMTUD*. The point here is that assuming otherwise is the flaw. Joe From nobody Wed May 6 11:29:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3320B1B2E09 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:29:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vmrQAIZSf8Fy for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-b.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C445F1B2E28 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.9.160.252] (pen.isi.edu [128.9.160.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t46IPqEQ012421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 6 May 2015 11:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554A5CAF.8000908@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:25:51 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Herbert References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> <55490267.7080104@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "sarikaya@ieee.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 18:29:05 -0000 On 5/5/2015 7:31 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: .... >> Not only do you need to find the version (as codepoint or within the IP >> header), but if you have the same information in two places you now need >> to verify that the two match and decide what to do when they don't. >> > If they don't match the packet should dropped-- this behavior is > already implemented. That's additional hardware that you didn't need if you didn't replicate the field. >> I.e., a person with one watch always knows what time it is; a person >> with two watches is never sure. >> > To follow through with your analogy, a person with one watch can give > the time but has no way to say that it is correct. A person with two > watches can not only give the time but also an assurance that the time > is correct (when the times on the watches match). > > Redundant information in a packet is the basis for verifying the > packet against corruption. IPv6 assumes that the "link layer" protects the packet; here that's covered by the UDP checksum. So copying bits inside areas covered by the checksum to other areas covered by that checksum has NO effect on detecting single-bit errors. Further, if you're really serious about protection, use CRC-16 or better. > Since, the IPv6 version number is not > protected by any IP layer checksum, It's a payload of a UDP packet in the cases we're discussing, and that would assume UDP over the entire message. Otherwise, you're taking EXACTLY the same risk with the IP packet you'd be taking running over any other L2 with potential corruption. Joe From nobody Wed May 6 18:10:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3491B300C; Wed, 6 May 2015 18:10:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UHUXuGqp8j2C; Wed, 6 May 2015 18:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95F551B3008; Wed, 6 May 2015 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSF53097; Thu, 07 May 2015 01:10:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 May 2015 02:10:25 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.209]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 7 May 2015 09:10:22 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Templin, Fred L" , Joe Touch , Tom Herbert Thread-Topic: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip Thread-Index: AQHQhDAYoLZIFwke90qEGncpXxc1v51nAPgAgAQl8XCAAFTXgIABIiUAgABaUYCAABwmAIAAAU+AgAAUpQCAAAMpgIAABfSAgAAF9wCAAAGigIAAC4GAgAAB94CAAPvFMIAAQgeAgAE2MzA= Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 01:10:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832AD90@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E76ABADC85@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5543D870.6080108@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A468@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <55479A6D.2040403@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832A7B7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A834@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5548F132.7050704@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5A90F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5549039C.2020709@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5ABBE@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55490B41.2000207@isi.edu> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5AC5F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <55491B47.4060400@isi.edu> <55491CED.5070505@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0832ABC2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B87C@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D9831832E5B87C@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Donald Eastlake , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 01:10:32 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogVGVtcGxpbiwgRnJlZCBM IFttYWlsdG86RnJlZC5MLlRlbXBsaW5AYm9laW5nLmNvbV0NCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBN YXkgMDYsIDIwMTUgMTA6MzkgUE0NCj4gVG86IFh1eGlhb2h1OyBKb2UgVG91Y2g7IFRvbSBIZXJi ZXJ0DQo+IENjOiBEb25hbGQgRWFzdGxha2U7IHRyaWxsQGlldGYub3JnOyBudm8zQGlldGYub3Jn 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aGVhZGVyIGNvbXByZXNzaW9uIGFzIHdlbGwuDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNClhpYW9odQ0KDQo+ IFRoYW5rcyAtIEZyZWQNCj4gZnJlZC5sLnRlbXBsaW5AYm9laW5nLmNvbQ0KPiANCj4gPiBCZXN0 IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ID4gWGlhb2h1DQo+ID4NCj4gPiA+IChub3QgaWYpIG90aGVyIElQIHZlcnNp b25zIGFyZSB1c2VkIChmb3Igd2hhdGV2ZXIgcmVhc29uKS4NCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiBKb2UNCj4g PiA+DQo+ID4gPg0KDQo= From nobody Thu May 7 11:08:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28261A1BFE for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:08:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lwfFE5gFcCjs for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f43.google.com (mail-qg0-f43.google.com [209.85.192.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C3111A1A0F for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgdy78 with SMTP id y78so25020132qgd.0 for ; Thu, 07 May 2015 11:08:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iXoxZ3Q9D0eXi9gpoT6LBwou81ZL9qYVtiI6uMWi76I=; b=LVrFkU94M84B+YtcqaO3QZxM1T5gCahSqGwFbfmyzLAd0Pu3vLwUZNs1FsCppKgPk7 o8Qk6z8QR6mIpUEicvcb9lI5fqbWOx8k/mdbexaUi7LTPKzCYe8+WFeakU9H8ayry+dK V4qvvHBWNfcZItOW+HkC7gCIhnHlyDo2TGM2WVTEpE4iMrIEh64fTIbrZT8b52xKxgIe Fzi1Va0ENHAF7dw68gNcmoEGiglclQ9aUtHxdyz9RdW9tI90iYqmiOfTq+FHrrzpFLSY nmDE5FJBd594w5TXI0Xm8qg8jlGxbDnybbwldpMTECwZUOElqiknWw5fKYY4d10h1akO kfMA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkn86evjUn/53G00z8+3INpolWsAvYoBK8IQKSyrFrUtMdqnLmXfUEEerZpfc381J+YQ3/C X-Received: by 10.55.49.147 with SMTP id x141mr11436983qkx.23.1431022109293; Thu, 07 May 2015 11:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout-5.local ([12.204.99.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f90sm1885973qkf.14.2015.05.07.11.08.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 07 May 2015 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554BAA27.8020603@queuefull.net> Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 11:08:39 -0700 From: Benson Schliesser User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] NVO3 WG Adoption of draft-gross-geneve-02 X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 18:08:32 -0000 The chairs have confirmed that NVO3 WG consensus is in favor of adopting draft-gross-geneve-02. All co-authors have provided statements regarding IPR disclosure (refs below). At this time the draft is adopted. Authors, please resubmit the document as draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve-00. Thanks, -Benson& Matthew draft-gross-geneve IPR Disc J. Gross https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/dVFXckb6Jue940F_XRo5B1R1ack T. Sridhar https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/HBJZa6-T_kelNn7yMssIccUXC-o P. Garg https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/3Rp6OqCgM3iTtHZbTeDs3rN7ELA C. Wright https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/FMD2vUfhE_5kUZB_WlNkYLDCcJE I. Ganga https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/jAJTCdVSG_5iLr5HSc4RpHA-LSw P. Agarwal https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/1nLcAaJ5-KNq4NOh3sgONnYpyEI K. Duda https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/s_Hr7nsRcIss4oURkae3qyQofEY D. Dutt https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/_8Ri0vtVVtD-teimbzFK1tFt8xg J. Hudson https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/sEl4zDm2ZLh1mo0-8uIOSfSS5wE From nobody Thu May 7 11:10:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4541ACEF4 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fNBfxIyu0rDr for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f49.google.com (mail-qg0-f49.google.com [209.85.192.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E9971ACDC1 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgeb100 with SMTP id b100so25021182qge.3 for ; Thu, 07 May 2015 11:10:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ctgvu0l1dB0M3H2QbFUb1IHAdLU2Ds6rRnmirgPRu5Y=; b=WbhqZCmBV8Wk3QQ3Xp1DTOeT9FGbU9HdPME0G1XCuLbFSFEDECQmIevdOWEnErwri2 QkaoQPSs44ouPatMbTYgAao4x9kCxyB88iUaFH8a8Ddl6dWdYwh895NjCWpQYCRwGWI0 GjdtfxTswFbr3SBUuDCdyfIvXcWv+agdzz2YJW313jCbgEfnygs7s7j8rcMPssiPw3qu c0YT2dr6UCwVcZ7yFHZ8Z3oI0S+PWBqt1//muXUNFzbmxw2dxG97f8ONOm2l7YZBvrWi YXOoiMtl+FPVtaylbyZ6SOlD1v+fN22XRkGAnIosshHh+Yr23P5PFyoVEhj4rD9me3SZ mwqA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQuYqEHeLl4CuMOabLQE+ZORgA33vsGfTSar0MBn2fUiXMx/iDbaOBXWc0unLp+uq+oain X-Received: by 10.55.40.91 with SMTP id o88mr11272107qkh.65.1431022230684; Thu, 07 May 2015 11:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout-5.local ([12.204.99.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e104sm1898705qgd.29.2015.05.07.11.10.29 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 07 May 2015 11:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <554BAAA1.4070800@queuefull.net> Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 11:10:41 -0700 From: Benson Schliesser User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] NVO3 WG Adoption of draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework-00 X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 18:10:33 -0000 The chairs have confirmed that NVO3 WG consensus is in favor of adopting draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework-00. All co-authors have provided statements regarding IPR disclosure (refs below). At this time the draft is adopted. Authors, please resubmit the document as draft-ietf-nvo3-mcast-framework-00. Thanks, -Benson& Matthew draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework-00 IPR Disc A. Ghanwani https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/w9NH3na_xbQuSRFmRmX2uOSFi_0 L. Dunbar https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/bETA-_ULFjSqULfWmpV_SnJjBrA M. McBride https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/7ePpRmUUX9xe9quysRPFQ3thluI V. Bannai https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/491ALoCiqUP6ljgL7wWxdDr16OE R. Krishnan https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/J2N2Px4zDEceGDTKqoBZ_P3iDBM From nobody Fri May 8 02:07:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E3C1A1B1B; Fri, 8 May 2015 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tlsA_YUnkISt; Fri, 8 May 2015 02:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx6.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP 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17:05:02 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_related 0031E54148257E3F_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn t48953SE070373 Archived-At: Cc: Pat Thaler , "nvo3@ietf.org" , nvo3 Subject: [nvo3] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwcm9wb3NlZCBsaWFpc29uIHRleHQg?= =?gb2312?b?dG8gSUVFRSA4MDIuMSBmb3IgVkRQIGV4dGVuc2lvbiB3b3Jr?= X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 09:07:26 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_related 0031E54148257E3F_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0031E54348257E3F_=" --=_alternative 0031E54348257E3F_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RHVhbCBtb2RlIHNjZW5hcmlvIGlzIHBvc3NpYmxlIGFuZCBpdCBpcyBkaWZmZXJlbnQgc29sdXRp b24gYmFzZWQgb24gdGhlIA0Kc2FtZSBhc3N1bXB0aW9ucyBhcyBzcGxpdC1OVkUgZGlkLg0KQW5k 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Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BAC1B2DC3; Fri, 8 May 2015 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150508172057.6287.22203.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 10:20:57 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 17:21:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. Title : Geneve: Generic Network Virtualization Encapsulation Authors : Jesse Gross T. Sridhar Pankaj Garg Chris Wright Ilango Ganga Puneet Agarwal Kenneth Duda Dinesh G. Dutt Jon Hudson Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve-00.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2015-05-08 Abstract: Network virtualization involves the cooperation of devices with a wide variety of capabilities such as software and hardware tunnel endpoints, transit fabrics, and centralized control clusters. As a result of their role in tying together different elements in the system, the requirements on tunnels are influenced by all of these components. Flexibility is therefore the most important aspect of a tunnel protocol if it is to keep pace with the evolution of the system. This draft describes Geneve, a protocol designed to recognize and accommodate these changing capabilities and needs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-geneve-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri May 8 12:28:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80801B29BB; Fri, 8 May 2015 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.959 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.959 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dIlLJ2DacTVT; Fri, 8 May 2015 12:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EEE41ACEFC; Fri, 8 May 2015 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.65]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 7081FB5FC0D7D; Fri, 8 May 2015 19:28:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.35]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t48JSUwF031161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 May 2015 15:28:31 -0400 Received: from US70UWXCHMBA06.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.11.32]) by US70TWXCHHUB03.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 8 May 2015 15:28:31 -0400 From: "TOUVE, Jeremy (Jeremy)** CTR **" To: "gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn" , "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" , Liyizhou , Lucy yong Thread-Topic: 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In line>

 <= /p>

From: nvo3 [ma= ilto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 2:05 AM
To: Larry Kreeger (kreeger); Liyizhou; Lucy yong
Cc: Pat Thaler; nvo3@ietf.org; nvo3
Subject: [nvo3] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1= for VDP extension work

 

Dual mode scenario is possible and it is different so= lution based on the same assumptions as split-NVE did.
A= nd the solution to this mode may be not so difficult. More information plea= se refers to the in-line description. And the tNVE and nNVE terminlogy can = also be used in dual mode scenario. And can it be accepted as an option to split-NVE architecture?

W= e=A1=AFve also noted that additional extensions mentioned in the draft, for= example, extension for diminishing the limitation of original VDP that the= end device shall be directly connected to ToR.

S= o for dual mode, we only need to clarify the requirement is reasonable or n= ot.
A= s you mentioned before, for manual configuration  in dual mode interna= l NVE implementation, the VDP is not needed.
B= ut if VDP need to be extended to support automatic VN provisioning, the tNV= E needs to implement some EVB bridge function to process the VDP message to= realize the VM joining VN. In this case the VDP needs to be extended to indicate which NVE it prefers to.
T= he following picture shows some more information.


M= aybe this scenario is very specific one,  no further discussion are ne= eded for liaison in this stage.

M= ay I ask some general question, do you interested in VN automatic provision= ing in NVO3, if VDP can be extended to support or other mechanism supportin= g automatic provisioning?

JT> VDP itself can support automatic provisioning through its exch= anges.  I believe that the main requirements for auto provisioning are between the nVNE and VNA in order to map VN name to VNID in some manne= r (and thus outside VDP).  I am confused at the need to extend auto pr= ovisioning into a tVNE however.  In most instances that I know of the = same software that is managing the VMs, is also in sync with the NVA (in fact, is usually driving the NVA) and would = be able to configure a the tNVE with the VN information necessary.

 


T= hanks!

Z= hongyu








"Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" <= ;kreeger@cisco.com><= span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri= f"">

2015/05/01 06:45

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<= /p>

Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, "gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn" <gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn>, Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

"nvo= 3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org= >, nvo3 <nvo3-bounces@ietf.o= rg>, Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.co= m>

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 8= 02.1 for VDP extension work

 

 

I agree with Lucy and Yizhou that this = is a very unlikely scenario.  The NVE should either be contained in th= e End Device, or external ---agree. this is the common/regular scenario, the end device should self-contain th= e entire NVE functions, but it seems conflict with the concept of split-NVE= which may result in the problems of: (1) how to partition the functionalit= y between end device and external NVE; and (2) end device needs to negotiate with external NVE for the capab= ility and related parameters or vice versa.  Although, I still = think it is possible to run in this type of dual mode, but it is not what i= s meant by the term split-NVE---Yes, dual mode and split-NVE are different solutions, which are probably based = on the same assumptions, e.g. lack of processing power or offloading or som= ething like that in some circumstances.  If the NVE is internal= to the End Device, then it communicates with the NVA and performs all encap/decap.  The End Device needs acce= ss to the underlay for reaching other NVEs, and  this is provisioned o= nce with no need for VDP.  If the NVE is external, VDP is needed to co= mmunicate the current state of VN connectivity (what VNs, what tenant addresses within that VN) to the external NVE. If t= here are NVEs both within a End Device and external (simultaneously), then = the End Device just needs to decide which to use (how would it make that de= cision? ---maybe the solutions are simple, for example, = either via the VDP/control plane protocol  messages explicitly indicat= ing the preference of which type of NVE  or making the selection decis= ioning according to some internal/external NVE selection policy. ).  There are no additional VDP requirements= I can think of if you wanted your End Device to support this for some reas= on.

- Larry



From: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2015 7:13 AM
To: "gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn" <gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn>, Larry Kreeger <kreeger@cisco.com>, Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>
Cc: Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>, "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, nvo3 <nvo3-bounces@ietf.org>, Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com>
Subject: RE: Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1 for VDP ext= ension work

ZhongYu,
 
Not sure if operator is interested in such confi= guration. Even yes, for this configuration, VN1=A1=AFs NVE is on end device= , i.e. co-located, so VDP is not needed for VN1 at all; Hypervisor will perform the mapping and encapsulation for VN1 traffic.  VDP only= handles VMs associated to VN2.
 
Lucy
 
From: gu.zhongyu@zte.= com.cn [mailto:gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:18 AM
To: Larry Kreeger (kreeger); Lucy yong; Liyizhou
Cc: Liyizhou; Lucy yong; nvo3@ietf.org; nvo3; Pat Thaler
Subject: =B4=F0= =B8=B4: Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1 f= or VDP extension work
 =
The terminology is ok.

The scenario please refer to the following picture. VN2, for example, needs= more processing for QoS or/and ACL etc. been deployed in TOR/NVE. In this = case, refers to EVB architecture(ER, S-VLAN component, C-VLAN component), s= hould all VN1 and VN2's VDP messages be terminated in Hypervisor/NVE(tNVE), or all forwarded to ToR/NVE(nNVE)? = It seems some filter mechanism needed to intercept VN1's VDP messages for l= ocal processing, while forward VN2's VDP messages to ToR/NVE for processing= there.








This is our concerns.

Thanks!
Zhongyu



"Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" <= ;kreeger@cisco= .com>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  "nvo3" <nvo3-bounces@ietf.org>

2015/04/30 07:42

 

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<= /p>

Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, Liyizhou <liyiz= hou@huawei.com>, "gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn&= quot; <gu.zhongyu@z= te.com.cn>,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com>= , "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, nvo3 <nvo3-bo= unces@ietf.org>

=D6=F7=CC=E2

Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 8= 02.1 for VDP extension        work


 =

 





Yes, to be clear, the previous terminology of External NVE was changed to S= plit-NVE at the urging of Thomas Narten.  It is the same architecture/= functionality.  Thomas felt the name change better reflected that thei= r was some knowledge within the End Device of the External NVE that needed to be signaled.  This awareness withi= n the End Device was dubbed tNVE (tenant NVE), while the External NVE was d= ubbed nNVE (network NVE).  If this naming change is causing more harm = than good, then perhaps we should change it back.

- Larry

From: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com&g= t;
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 1:26 PM
To: Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>, "gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn= " <gu.zhongy= u@zte.com.cn>
Cc: Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com>, "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, nvo3 <nvo3-bounces@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1 for VDP extensi= on work

I agree with Yizhou. Don=A1=AFt know why operators want to configure that w= ay. An NVE is either co-located or at external for a server, not per VM bas= e. Split-NVE is a special design for co-located case, i.e. offloading. VDP = usage for an external NVE and split-NVE are the same.

Lucy

From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Liyizhou
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 4:39 AM
To: gu.zhon= gyu@zte.com.cn
Cc: Pat Thaler; nvo3@ietf.org; nvo3
Subject: Re: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1 for VDP extensi= on work
 
Hi Zhongyu,

Thanks for pointing out you would like to see the VDP extension work in pre= vious emails.

For the use case you brought up, I am not too sure why such a scenario is r= equired and has not seen any discussions on it. It would be good if consens= us to be reached on adding such use case to architecture or use case docume= nt before it is taken into consideration in liaison.

Thanks,
Yizhou


From:gu.zho= ngyu@zte.com.cn [mailto:gu.zhongyu@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:55 AM
To: Liyizhou
Cc: Liyizhou; nvo3@= ietf.org; nvo3; Pat Thaler
Subject: =B4=F0= =B8=B4: [nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1 for V= DP extension work
 
Hi Yizhou and all,

This is a formal liaison to IEEE, so it should cover all possible extension= consideration in NVO3.
The following are two more consideration.

Firstly, as you may know, we posted a message: . In it, we discussed and concluded it's possible to extend VDP to realize t= he VN automatic provisioning.

Secondly, we wonder if VDP suitable for all the usage scenarios in NVO3, es= pecially for the typical Hypervisor/NVE-ToR/NVE scenario, because it is dif= ferent from VDP/EVB architecture (Hypervisor/EVB station - ToR/EVB Bridge).= For example, when some VMs/VNs reside in Hypervisor/NVE and at the same time other VMs/VNs(VMs belong to = the same Hypervisor) reside in ToR/NVE, results in Hypervisor works as EVB = station while working as EVB brige simultaneously. If this understanding is= right, it=A1=AFs critical to VDP extension.

Of course, these points are not discussed before in NVO3.
If possible, please take them into account here.

Thanks in advance!

Zhongyu

Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com<= span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri= f"">>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  "nvo3" <nvo3-bounces@ietf.org>

2015/04/28 10:07

 

 

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<= /p>

"nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org= >,

=B3=AD=CB=CD

Pat Thaler <pthaler@broadcom.com>= , Liyizhou <liyiz= hou@huawei.com>

=D6=F7=CC=E2

[nvo3] proposed liaison text to IEEE 802.1= for VDP extension work



 

&nb= sp;

 

 
Hi folks,

We are going to send a liaison to IEEE 802.1 to bring their attention to ie= tf-nvo3-hpvr2nve-cp-req draft and to suggest the work to extend VDP protoco= l based on the consensus reached during Dallas meeting.

Chairs asked me to post the proposed text here for your review.

Thanks a lot,

Yizhou


-----------

Liaison Statement=A3= =BA NVO3 Liaison to IEEE 802.1

<= br> From: Matthew Bocci and Benson Schliesser
(Co-Chairs, IETF NVO3 Working Group)

To: Glenn Parsons (Chair, = IEEE 802.1 Working Group)

Cc:
Ron Bonica (IETF NVO3 Technical Advisor)
Eric Gray (IETF Liaison to IEEE 802.1)
Alia Atlas= (IETF Area Director for NVO3)
Dan Romascanu (IETF Liaison to= the IEEE SA)
Jari Arkko (Chair, IETF)
Pat Thaler (Chair, IEEE 802.1 DCB Task Group)
Paul Nickolich (Chair, IEEE 8= 02)

Purpose: For action

Attachments: (none)

Body:
Dear Glenn,

The IETF NVO3 Working Group has been developing the requirements for a Cont= rol Plane Protocol between server Hypervisors and Network Virtual Edge (NVE= ) devices in virtualized overlay networks. The current draft can be found a= t http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-hpvr2nve-cp-req/.

This requirements document suggests extending the VDP (VSI Discovery and Co= nfiguration Protocol) protocol specified by IEEE Std 802.1Qbg as a solution= . We would particularly welcome IEEE 802.1 Working Group=A1=AFs review of Section 5 of the draft. That section compares the conceptually= similar terms in NVO3 and the VDP context. It also summarizes the potentia= l technical extension work required for VDP to be used as the control plane protocol between the hypervisor and NVE.

In view of the progress of this work, we would like to suggest IEEE 802.1 Working Group to use that draft as a base requirement reference for VDP extensions in the aforementioned context. Please note th= at the status of this draft in the IETF, that it is a =A1=B0Working Group d= raft=A1=B1, indicates that the Working Group considers it an appropriate st= arting point but it is still subject to change. While a determination has not yet been made that there is technical consen= sus on all the details of the draft, there is consensus on basing the Hyper= visor to NVE protocol on VDP with appropriate extensions.

Sincerely Yours,

Matthew Bocci & Benson Schliesser
IETF NVO3 Working Group Co-Chairs
_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3_________= ______________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
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--_005_5DFD335F2F7572468E6ECBE6546104EAC3FEE1FAUS70UWXCHMBA06z_-- From nobody Mon May 11 09:24:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45EE1A8761; Mon, 11 May 2015 09:24:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0rYqP4utcd4e; Mon, 11 May 2015 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2F61A1B98; Mon, 11 May 2015 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150511162420.27664.17748.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 09:24:20 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-mcast-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 16:24:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Virtualization Overlays Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Multicast in NVO3 Authors : Anoop Ghanwani Linda Dunbar Mike McBride Vinay Bannai Ram Krishnan Filename : draft-ietf-nvo3-mcast-framework-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2015-05-10 Abstract: This document discusses a framework for supporting multicast traffic in a network that uses Network Virtualization using Overlays over Layer 3 (NVO3). Both infrastructure multicast and application- specific multicast are discussed. It describes the various mechanisms and considerations that can be used for delivering such traffic as well as the data plane and control plane considerations for each of the mechanisms. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-mcast-framework/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-nvo3-mcast-framework-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 11 14:16:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9211A004E for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8H3c83_EnI_K for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x232.google.com (mail-la0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E2571A7035 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by laat2 with SMTP id t2so102614620laa.1 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=PQ2ElNXN0XNnz4RanLD1/knnldlNJYQ20TkTpJRwdXQ=; b=g3ZC68fkBX1TkG7RTrZCUul1eYEwoc7g43ktWBfd0zy0WHrnPI6CrC3Svk7uU4PS5Y YtrDEHIyeMInPnux3qdKPMT8tPOEW9Kdk3v7EWp2qBoQd4xI4mCmg/xh0vTiulA049p9 /5jfbfP6mm54TC0h1DPHa7skRnUPUU/aaZzDp55q5QXT5sDMyGYMGPyQyBd9QCWhsQZ6 6gcmkI60n6fxOXSn/q2M0HiWxWdc9JCQq8IU1o45Cnbds9yEAjTLoXeAgRqGmIVvt5BW YT5oS05rSbpmLZd3CzKkyU0MB+JT1bx3x+DOEeergx5bUtaZK2HYzxsRkqeCoU9Au9Hl 5kEw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.139.198 with SMTP id ra6mr9503554lbb.15.1431378966544; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:16:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5D9CD9C2-8EC7-491C-9243-62916D6377B6@savantadvisors.com> References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> <5D9CD9C2-8EC7-491C-9243-62916D6377B6@savantadvisors.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 16:16:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: William Caban Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 21:16:09 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:41 PM, William Caban wrote: > > >> On May 5, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: >>>> Hi Joe, >>>> >>>> Please see my response in this thread >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . >>>> >>>> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by indicating >>>> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at two >>>> places to determine this? >>> >>> 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values >>> >>> 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two >>> differently, when they should not be handled differently >>> >>> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. >> >> +1 >> >> I think that Ethernet and NSH are not needed. NSH is not a protocol, >> it is some abstract data. How NSH will be encapsulated is being >> discussed in SFC WG. >> So if the payload is only IP, then why do we need the next protocol field? >> >> Behcet > > > Next Protocol Ethernet type is needed for scenarios where you want to encapsulate Ethernet based protocols which do not use IP (i.e. VLAN, FCoE, etc). > Is this scenario(s) explained in the draft? I said Ethernet next protocol header is not needed because that case is already handled by VXLAN. Behcet > _William > > From nobody Mon May 11 14:37:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC49F1A9096 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wjLEtS9aRvk4 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-f181.google.com (mail-ig0-f181.google.com [209.85.213.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 931CE1A9094 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbsb11 with SMTP id sb11so84399674igb.0 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ARhsDSdX90CWCRdIkO4/ur3VWjWWmLox39COgqsrbTo=; b=WCqkkXY3MRAVq2kqOaT7vt4xvV6hMf/bDp6FlNRU2/4G/sp5HwDBQYjTDZ7VrwElkU LKwnOkfBxRjFXd7VxODhMlr4YFqsYgZ6kCBukp2krx8iNZQi79xNaVbqF6Pczzu28ylJ WhOCbKV+BeGfvQFNYmLzHXWgcBqd8PLDEqcUrNDEiZrfL/tQBKNAo0vLOoxQ2/1iC2FK 3zFj+jJYLqrcv2hckIMHm8wuG+pyBjGtmsvM1vBBM72T1GDkjy7y5rYkTzzDkvfAGfXq aEWNY7MJw4q4aGPWL89UTVEWH424nHpXldSaWVb8Uu/KZQXsyPw7ZJkuJ0pYKzQViwJo 9gXA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQntGaKPsWsghv5XJiiQpCUURIP4WHNdlWJ4A3pd/v4UTRlKur+xmYx9yl49oYJlCYUh8Go0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.13.11 with SMTP id 11mr15841186ion.70.1431380235944; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.150.76 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20150502010110.32670.15540.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55480608.6080401@isi.edu> <554863B4.2010301@isi.edu> <5D9CD9C2-8EC7-491C-9243-62916D6377B6@savantadvisors.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 14:37:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Diego Garcia del Rio To: sarikaya@ieee.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113fc47880c1230515d52e85 Archived-At: Cc: Ian Cox , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "Larry Kreeger \(kreeger\)" , William Caban , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [nvo3] I-D Action: draft-ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe-00.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 21:37:18 -0000 --001a113fc47880c1230515d52e85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 yes but if you're using GPE as an encap mechanism then any payload type needs to be explicitly named. On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:41 PM, William Caban > wrote: > > > > > >> On May 5, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Behcet Sarikaya > wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote: > >>>> Hi Joe, > >>>> > >>>> Please see my response in this thread > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04612.html . > >>>> > >>>> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused by > indicating > >>>> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations to look at > two > >>>> places to determine this? > >>> > >>> 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent values > >>> > >>> 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two > >>> differently, when they should not be handled differently > >>> > >>> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions. > >> > >> +1 > >> > >> I think that Ethernet and NSH are not needed. NSH is not a protocol, > >> it is some abstract data. How NSH will be encapsulated is being > >> discussed in SFC WG. > >> So if the payload is only IP, then why do we need the next protocol > field? > >> > >> Behcet > > > > > > Next Protocol Ethernet type is needed for scenarios where you want to > encapsulate Ethernet based protocols which do not use IP (i.e. VLAN, FCoE, > etc). > > > > Is this scenario(s) explained in the draft? > > I said Ethernet next protocol header is not needed because that case > is already handled by VXLAN. > > Behcet > > > _William > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > --001a113fc47880c1230515d52e85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
yes but if you're using GPE as an encap mechanism then= any payload type needs to be explicitly named.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Behcet= Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Willi= am Caban
<william.caban@savan= tadvisors.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On May 5, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/4/2015 7:05 PM, Larry Kreeger (kreeger) wrote:
>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>> Please see my response in this thread
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nv= o3/current/msg04612.html .
>>>>
>>>> Also, could you explain the problems that would be caused = by indicating
>>>> IPv4/IPv6 directly rather than requiring implementations t= o look at two
>>>> places to determine this?
>>>
>>> 1. it accounts for only IPv4 and IPv6, not any subsequent valu= es
>>>
>>> 2. it encourages the encapsulation layer to handle these two >>> differently, when they should not be handled differently
>>>
>>> IP is a protocol. v4 and v6 are versions.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I think that Ethernet and NSH are not needed. NSH is not a protoco= l,
>> it is some abstract data. How NSH will be encapsulated is being >> discussed in SFC WG.
>> So if the payload is only IP, then why do we need the next protoco= l field?
>>
>> Behcet
>
>
> Next Protocol Ethernet type is needed for scenarios where you want to = encapsulate Ethernet based protocols which do not use IP (i.e. VLAN, FCoE, = etc).
>

Is this scenario(s) explained in the draft?

I said Ethernet next protocol header is not needed because that case
is already handled by VXLAN.

Behcet

> _William
>
>

_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3

--001a113fc47880c1230515d52e85-- From nobody Mon May 11 23:52:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7392D1A1A7D; Mon, 11 May 2015 23:52:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qM0pD755gtT6; Mon, 11 May 2015 23:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx5.zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D3D1A1A7F; Mon, 11 May 2015 23:52:14 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ndWRDFFdrVVcVcRd3dVeDVZhNYuAAAA7 --=_related 0024AE6E48257E43_=-- From nobody Wed May 13 19:08:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B321A8956 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 19:08:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vWPZGrnTjCcX for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 19:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f45.google.com (mail-qg0-f45.google.com [209.85.192.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE12C1A894A for ; 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(68-115-154-254.static.hckr.nc.charter.com. [68.115.154.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n13sm16922795qkh.8.2015.05.13.19.08.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 May 2015 19:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55540391.1070100@queuefull.net> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 22:08:17 -0400 From: Benson Schliesser User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] Consensus on Liaison to IEEE 802.1 regarding VDP extensions X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 02:08:22 -0000 Dear NVO3 Contributors - Matthew and I have considered the discussion (at the Dallas meeting as well as here on the mailing list) of a Liaison Statement to IEEE 802.1 inviting them to develop VDP extensions in support of our requirements. We have concluded that the WG consensus is in favor of sending a statement based on the text proposed by Yizhou Li in her message http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg04600.html. We thank Yizhou for taking the lead in developing this text and inviting discussion. -Benson & Matthew From nobody Sat May 16 06:03:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EDE1A07BD for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65U4XJmF07CL for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D17161A0406 for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgde91 with SMTP id e91so3525983qgd.0 for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=K1wAiDFEwcP2G9IUlxhsY1wXVEhp6hz4Y/ZwNPFvOug=; b=Qy6EHJugT8Q3jxfayy05TxrVgrSi0zw20NZtai8I8NYmdUiN+NDp9xmL1FTtR6qpwg j458KULVgqkjfK9Q31hcDJBbQmphbMtY36WA0gM/i7J2ZSkOK7gqBJ2IAxGe5b5xkHht wD+0lQrgP6vZzjwpgJoGf5Z3bktfUTLrU5oJWU+P6k3ExpDHEf0c/uy7GXFGkAeTwton AK81Os0O83kejji7fWF8sYK6ojYpst40EJg69ZhkZO07Re/CWh2nGON7aetfptEMxYSq g6YdSKYNUb8FeBgGOCSjfnTE6d7U8PNVLPj1qiIrCDxAByDxdpEzNTTsEpnjq+JKS20h lWDw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQntyJiaFinG0Tm0O/F0c7wuU5XMZ2SkPyoicSVrpsrTDsYrf3ZKvdpuBTsj4OMBS22ChW0N X-Received: by 10.55.15.129 with SMTP id 1mr30775145qkp.29.1431781417099; Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desolation-4.local (68-115-154-254.static.hckr.nc.charter.com. [68.115.154.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k71sm3021965qhc.42.2015.05.16.06.03.35 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 16 May 2015 06:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55574026.6060707@queuefull.net> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 09:03:34 -0400 From: Benson Schliesser User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 13:03:39 -0000 Dear NVO3 Contributors - For the upcoming virtual interim meeting on May-22, the focus is to discuss the topic of OAM. A draft agenda has been posted at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/05/22/nvo3/agenda/agenda-interim-2015-nvo3-9. As always, the meeting details can be found at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/trac/wiki/WikiStart. Cheers, -Benson & Matthew From nobody Mon May 18 08:51:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89201A916E; Mon, 18 May 2015 08:18:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hX4Hx6JP2Y9X; Mon, 18 May 2015 08:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9021A916D; Mon, 18 May 2015 08:18:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150518151829.16076.14360.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 08:18:29 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 May 2015 08:51:52 -0700 Cc: bensons@queuefull.net, matthew.bocci@alcatel-lucent.com, db3546@att.com, nvo3@ietf.org, akatlas@gmail.com, aretana@cisco.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [nvo3] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:18:33 -0000 Dear Linda Dunbar, Anoop Ghanwani, Mike McBride, Vinay Bannai, Ram (Ramki) Krishnan: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "A Framework for Multicast in NVO3" (draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2597/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ghanwani-nvo3-mcast-framework" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon May 18 09:53:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227341AD26B for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:53:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fX-O66wQCk24 for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 355B91AD0D7 for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BWF57392; Mon, 18 May 2015 16:53:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.130) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 18 May 2015 17:52:05 +0100 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml703-chm ([10.193.5.130]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:51:58 -0700 From: Linda Dunbar To: Benson Schliesser , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting Thread-Index: AQHQj9jB/vFcHpbxu0+zAtgIudJ3752B26qg Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 16:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657C2CB5D@dfweml701-chm> References: <55574026.6060707@queuefull.net> In-Reply-To: <55574026.6060707@queuefull.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.233] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 16:53:23 -0000 Benson,=20 Does NVO3 group need to have more discussion on the NVA mapping distributio= n mechanism before calling for the WG adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-dunbar-nvo3-nva-mapping-distribution/?=20 We have answered all the questions posted on and off the NVO3 list with reg= ard to the proposed mechanism, and have updated the draft accordingly.=20 Can you send out the WG adoption call for the draft?=20 If you think more discussion is needed before the WG adoption call, can yo= u please put the discussion on the NVO3 meeting calendar as soon as possibl= e? Thank you very much.=20 Linda -----Original Message----- From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benson Schliesser Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 8:04 AM To: nvo3@ietf.org Subject: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting Dear NVO3 Contributors - For the upcoming virtual interim meeting on May-22, the focus is to discuss= the topic of OAM. A draft agenda has been posted at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/05/22/nvo3/agenda/agenda-inte= rim-2015-nvo3-9. As always, the meeting details can be found at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/w= g/nvo3/trac/wiki/WikiStart. Cheers, -Benson & Matthew _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Thu May 21 12:14:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3041A88D0 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 12:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mEN9jdQ8svm9 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F40431A88DB for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hy-gue-4-secure-transport-02.txt X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 19:14:07 -0000 RllJLiBUaGlzIGRyYWZ0IHNwZWNpZmllcyBHVUUgb3B0aW9uYWwgZmVhdHVyZSBmb3Igc2VjdXJl IHRyYW5zcG9ydC4gTlZPMyBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIGNhbiB1c2UgdGhlIG9wdGlvbnMgZm9yIHRo ZSBoZWFkZXIgaW50ZWdyaXR5IHByb3RlY3Rpb24gYW5kIHRlbmFudCBwYWNrZXRzIGVuY3J5cHRp b24gd2hlbiBuZWNlc3NhcnkuIA0KDQpMdWN5IA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0t LQ0KRnJvbTogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRz QGlldGYub3JnXSANClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBNYXkgMjEsIDIwMTUgMjowNCBQTQ0KVG86IFRv bSBIZXJiZXJ0OyBUb20gSGVyYmVydDsgTHVjeSB5b25nOyBMdWN5IHlvbmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IE5l dyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaHktZ3VlLTQtc2VjdXJlLXRyYW5zcG9y dC0wMi50eHQNCg0KDQpBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtaHktZ3VlLTQtc2VjdXJl LXRyYW5zcG9ydC0wMi50eHQNCmhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgTHVj eSBZb25nIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KTmFtZToJCWRyYWZ0 LWh5LWd1ZS00LXNlY3VyZS10cmFuc3BvcnQNClJldmlzaW9uOgkwMg0KVGl0bGU6CQlHZW5lcmlj IFVEUCBFbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIChHVUUpIGZvciBTZWN1cmUgVHJhbnNwb3J0DQpEb2N1bWVudCBk YXRlOgkyMDE1LTA1LTIwDQpHcm91cDoJCUluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0KUGFnZXM6CQkx MQ0KVVJMOiAgICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9k cmFmdC1oeS1ndWUtNC1zZWN1cmUtdHJhbnNwb3J0LTAyLnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgIGh0 dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWh5LWd1ZS00LXNlY3VyZS10cmFu c3BvcnQvDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0 LWh5LWd1ZS00LXNlY3VyZS10cmFuc3BvcnQtMDINCkRpZmY6ICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaHktZ3VlLTQtc2VjdXJlLXRyYW5zcG9ydC0w Mg0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgc3BlY2lmaWVzIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IG9m IEdlbmVyaWMgVURQIEVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24NCiAgIChHVUUpIFtHVUVdIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgc2Vj dXJlIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBvdmVyIElQIG5ldHdvcmtzIGFuZCB0aGUNCiAgIEludGVybmV0LCBpbmNs dWRpbmcgR1VFIGhlYWRlciBpbnRlZ3JpdHkgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBhbmQgb3JpZ2luDQogICBhdXRo ZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgR1VFIHBheWxvYWQgZW5jcnlwdGlvbi4gVGhlc2UgYXJlIG9wdGlvbmFs DQogICBmZWF0dXJlcyBvZiBHVUUuDQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCg0KDQpQ bGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUg dGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uIHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFy ZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoN Cg== From nobody Fri May 22 06:16:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FA71B2BD2 for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Dear NVO3 Contributors - Just a reminder that we will be holding a virtual interim meeting today, starting in about 45 min from now. The details (including a link to the WebEx session) can be found at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/trac/wiki/WikiStart. Cheers, -Benson & Matthew --001a11414af4bdba960516ab78c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear NVO3 Contributors -

Just a reminde= r that we will be holding a virtual interim meeting today, starting in abou= t 45 min from now.

The details (including a link t= o the WebEx session) can be found at=C2=A0http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/nvo3/trac/w= iki/WikiStart.

Cheers,
-Benson &= Matthew

--001a11414af4bdba960516ab78c4-- From nobody Fri May 22 08:32:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590301A014B for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X0w2U7z9f_E7 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com (mail-pd0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 664111A016C for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdbqa5 with SMTP id qa5so22273026pdb.0 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:31:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arista.com; s=google; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MloC9Eq2Rvd/cX2bw9QyR0kfZXxsyW1czaO7H3+QWVU=; b=WqWeU0fVF1RZLG7iBV2Ht8o6K5SG3Hxi8j6cXky18ficmbV5AuiOdMwQNEDfUc1tGe 4FXupPJ7ar1eQcHDrDD7epQ1U+KntschFD1HbPXK2hes9iXbRbokiD9q+anrXhy2bdz0 a49CDhkaJeaK8WwMfk4z+oNXjUZ381F63HHng= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MloC9Eq2Rvd/cX2bw9QyR0kfZXxsyW1czaO7H3+QWVU=; b=TRFjKBSguIX0tP+ygNh2xBrVKAGezryxNnLUuv2DZYEwtCeVEhIMy32cid6x097SFm DawsNE7BfxVH7oWC4rrfm/ckWPeBcqt1NB8yIzTPaGvHY9yMnqaOJmwH55GsQHOQ658l ehQMXRGurW7nBLmqxR6Nr+9uDInugFUE38Z+NNCeR4Kk8YlTpwi6mgTEV85O0R4nrWs7 hRs2VCEq+W2it9L9G5p6RBT3xGRJ1EJzElMtNKoPYWDXhJv+ys74gQ7B6oxuhB6eqIUA v21VNBpUxfxso2abXXoDzLaqClHX4vFsBMLc9cKQ8Ey3HhnoBNXq77a7cPIa50bCcQM/ OA9g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnkJqF2D62Ix9mcFWFHqTD8y/PRIKdTwKQxy/LAmSggc7Ki0K/ZbhExInNzpeNLAmBKzMMl X-Received: by 10.70.138.70 with SMTP id qo6mr16340874pdb.163.1432308712857; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.65] (70-36-183-173.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net. [70.36.183.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g12sm2498308pat.3.2015.05.22.08.31.51 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 May 2015 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 08:31:50 -0700 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:28 -0700 Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 15:32:02 -0000 Deepak, Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses and ports. If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits of the inner packet in the OAM frames? Regards, Erik From nobody Fri May 22 08:33:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D981A0151 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:33:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8n9jcA82I17 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c.mail.sonic.net (c.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 170471A0252 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.65] (70-36-183-173.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [70.36.183.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id t4MFWo3E028750 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:51 -0700 Message-ID: <555F4C22.8050401@acm.org> Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 08:32:50 -0700 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" References: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> In-Reply-To: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVZ1XMZBpbKhqOdfwsYZpOJrPh2u/CcMlcSH39UhdAaCpSW6qsZM4Xp8JXy18qT6/L00kN7d4l1A2zBzoPYgNtAM X-Sonic-ID: C;zB5yzpcA5RGV9PjYVPtzAg== M;BkiRzpcA5RGV9PjYVPtzAg== X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: [nvo3] Fwd: OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 15:33:13 -0000 Deepak, Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses and ports. If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits of the inner packet in the OAM frames? Regards, Erik From nobody Fri May 22 09:00:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5EF1A1BF5 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:59:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V62fcG7q2hn5 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjmda16.webex.com (sjmda16.webex.com [64.68.124.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E3DE1A1BF3 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 08:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rva2rmd002.webex.com (sjc02-wxp00-lbace03-core-vl120-np10-2.webex.com [64.68.121.246]) by sjmda16.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8D6A1355 for ; 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Fri, 22 May 2015 13:28:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_BACKHAIR_22=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dA2QGIyvV-XO for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 13:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 518BD1A87E2 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 13:28:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2102; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432326522; x=1433536122; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Vz8+eWlbTYdLa3TEXml1J7iMOZ2eH3fKrp4TQj5imjI=; b=RxMysyW676IyMEPXbGt/OvTZmFR0Cr8r0ZJ38PBYWdRE8TEbgxjDLFky HunutEluFKdAaqr9hSQe1DFwb3yi+Sj3nf94tmmArt7CuCSoSavKKfvkl eZsb8OF/IiiQsTv9NjaqyJK8/jPC084ARPh8N16keSXzaiGus9Oe0Jlhq k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AlBQC2kF9V/4kNJK1cgxCBMgbKcwKBOkwBAQEBAQGBC4QjAgQnUhIBCHglAgQOBYgs1CYBAQEBAQUBAQEBAQEBG4o4gQKFBQeELQEEkwKLDIEpkiSDWSNhgSYCHYFSb4FGgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,478,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="421957082" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 May 2015 20:28:42 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com [173.36.12.75]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4MKSf1d017593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 May 2015 20:28:41 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.2.124]) by xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com ([173.36.12.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 22 May 2015 15:28:41 -0500 From: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" To: Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: OAM: 96 bits of customer data? Thread-Index: AQHQlKRxBB/JNqPJ90+JyZ+mF9bwuJ2IUPWA Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 20:28:40 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.2.130206 x-originating-ip: [10.154.212.192] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <276E41E89013BC48A460E073C1ABBF85@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 20:28:43 -0000 Hi Erik, Agreed we don't ned 96 bytes of customer data in all scenario for intra-DC but it will required in few scenarios and need to be use judiciously by user. Network Diagram (Tried my best I will do better diagram in the draft) / S1 \ / S2 \ (L3 VTEP) / \ / \ (full mesh in east/west, x1<->s1,s2, x2<->s1,s2, ...) / \ / \ X1 X2 X3 X4 ... / \ / | / \ / | full mesh in east/west l1<->x1, x2, x3, x4, l2 <-> x1,x2,x3,x4, l3 ..) / \ / |=20 L1 L2 L3 L4 =8A (L2 VTEP) | | H1 H2 =8A=8A Now H1 is host, L1 is Switch, X1 is switch in underlay, S1 is switch with l3 gateway functionality. All switches are connected in East West fully connected with multiple way ecmp. Customer want to test L1 - Lx scenario providing Host information (H1, and Hx) For example: H1 and Hx are in inter subnet and across mobility domain or any scenario where traffic will reach till L3 VTEP. L3 VTEP will do de-encap of outer header, vxlan header and do again re-encap of packet towards Lx. Now to forward packet toward Lx Inner payload should be same as customer information so right hashing is choosen as it's done for real data packet. Thanks, Deepak =20 On 5/22/15 8:31 AM, "Erik Nordmark" wrote: >Deepak, > >Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your >slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" >I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for >ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the >inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. > >But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP >port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses >and ports. >If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits >of the inner packet in the OAM frames? > >Regards, > Erik > From nobody Sun May 24 22:43:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA5C1A1B28 for ; Sun, 24 May 2015 22:43:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_BACKHAIR_22=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LI-5AtuiJLlj for ; Sun, 24 May 2015 22:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C80F61A1B22 for ; Sun, 24 May 2015 22:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSX49472; Mon, 25 May 2015 05:43:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 May 2015 06:43:14 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.89]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 May 2015 13:43:07 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" , Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: OAM: 96 bits of customer data? Thread-Index: AQHQlM3qviT1GSb/WEO7tNj7sTf7zZ2MMV0Q Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 05:43:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 05:43:22 -0000 QWdyZWUgd2l0aCBEZWVwYWsuDQoNCi1RaW4NCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7 tuS6ujogbnZvMyBbbWFpbHRvOm52bzMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10g5Luj6KGoIERlZXBhayBL dW1hciAoZGVrdW1hcikNCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxNeW5tDXmnIgyM+aXpSA0OjI5DQrmlLbk u7bkuro6IEVyaWsgTm9yZG1hcmsNCuaKhOmAgTogbnZvM0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K5Li76aKYOiBSZTog W252bzNdIE9BTTogOTYgYml0cyBvZiBjdXN0b21lciBkYXRhPw0KDQpIaSBFcmlrLA0KDQpBZ3Jl ZWQgd2UgZG9uJ3QgbmVkIDk2IGJ5dGVzIG9mIGN1c3RvbWVyIGRhdGEgaW4gYWxsIHNjZW5hcmlv IGZvciBpbnRyYS1EQyBidXQgaXQgd2lsbCByZXF1aXJlZCBpbiBmZXcgc2NlbmFyaW9zIGFuZCBu ZWVkIHRvIGJlIHVzZSBqdWRpY2lvdXNseSBieSB1c2VyLg0KDQoNCk5ldHdvcmsgRGlhZ3JhbSAo VHJpZWQgbXkgYmVzdCBJIHdpbGwgZG8gYmV0dGVyIGRpYWdyYW0gaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0KQ0KDQoN Cg0KICAgICAgICAvICBTMSBcICAgICAgIC8gUzIgIFwgICAgICAgICAgIChMMyBWVEVQKQ0KICAg ICAgIC8gICAgICAgXCAgICAgLyAgICAgICBcICAgICAgKGZ1bGwgbWVzaCBpbiBlYXN0L3dlc3Qs IHgxPC0+czEsczIsDQp4MjwtPnMxLHMyLCAuLi4pDQogICAgICAvICAgICAgICAgXCAgIC8gICAg ICAgICBcDQogICAgIFgxICAgICAgICAgWDIgICAgICAgWDMgICAgICAgWDQgLi4uDQogICAgIC8g IFwgICAgIC8gIHwNCiAgICAvICAgIFwgICAvICAgfCAgICAgICAgICAgZnVsbCBtZXNoIGluIGVh c3Qvd2VzdCBsMTwtPngxLCB4MiwgeDMsIHg0LA0KbDIgPC0+IHgxLHgyLHgzLHg0LCBsMyAuLikN CiAgIC8gICAgICBcIC8gICAgfCANCiAgTDEgICAgICAgICAgICBMMiAgICAgICBMMyAgICAgICAg TDQgxaAgICAgICAgKEwyIFZURVApDQoNCiAgIHwgICAgICAgICAgICB8DQogIEgxICAgICAgICAg ICAgSDIgxaDFoA0KDQoNCk5vdyBIMSBpcyBob3N0LCBMMSBpcyBTd2l0Y2gsIFgxIGlzIHN3aXRj aCBpbiB1bmRlcmxheSwgUzEgaXMgc3dpdGNoIHdpdGgNCmwzIGdhdGV3YXkgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0 eS4NCg0KQWxsIHN3aXRjaGVzIGFyZSBjb25uZWN0ZWQgaW4gRWFzdCBXZXN0IGZ1bGx5IGNvbm5l Y3RlZCB3aXRoIG11bHRpcGxlIHdheSBlY21wLg0KDQpDdXN0b21lciB3YW50IHRvIHRlc3QgTDEg LSBMeCBzY2VuYXJpbyBwcm92aWRpbmcgSG9zdCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiAoSDEsIGFuZA0KSHgpDQpG b3IgZXhhbXBsZTogSDEgYW5kIEh4IGFyZSBpbiBpbnRlciBzdWJuZXQgYW5kIGFjcm9zcyBtb2Jp bGl0eSBkb21haW4gb3IgYW55IHNjZW5hcmlvIHdoZXJlIHRyYWZmaWMgd2lsbCByZWFjaCB0aWxs IEwzIFZURVAuDQpMMyBWVEVQIHdpbGwgZG8gZGUtZW5jYXAgb2Ygb3V0ZXIgaGVhZGVyLCB2eGxh biBoZWFkZXIgYW5kIGRvIGFnYWluIHJlLWVuY2FwIG9mIHBhY2tldCB0b3dhcmRzIEx4Lg0KTm93 IHRvIGZvcndhcmQgcGFja2V0IHRvd2FyZCBMeCBJbm5lciBwYXlsb2FkIHNob3VsZCBiZSBzYW1l IGFzIGN1c3RvbWVyIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHNvIHJpZ2h0IGhhc2hpbmcgaXMgY2hvb3NlbiBhcyBp dCdzIGRvbmUgZm9yIHJlYWwgZGF0YSBwYWNrZXQuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkRlZXBhaw0KDQogICAg DQoNCk9uIDUvMjIvMTUgODozMSBBTSwgIkVyaWsgTm9yZG1hcmsiIDxub3JkbWFya0BhcmlzdGEu Y29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPkRlZXBhaywNCj4NCj5EaWRuJ3QgaGF2ZSB0aW1lIHRvIGdvIGludG8g dGhpcyBvbiB0aGUgY2FsbCwgYnV0IHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbmQgeW91ciANCj5zbGlkZXMgcmVmZXIg dG8gIjk2IGJpdHMgb2YgY3VzdG9tZXIgZGF0YSINCj5JIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2h5IHRoYXQgd2Fz IG5lZWRlZCBmb3IgVFJJTEwgLSBiYXNpY2FsbHkgdGhlIGVudHJvcHkgZm9yIA0KPkVDTVAvTEFH IGlzIGNhbGN1bGF0ZWQgYXQgZWFjaCBob3AgaW4gVFJJTEwgc28gaXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gbG9vayBh dCB0aGUgDQo+aW5uZXIgRXRoZXJuZXQsIElQLCBhbmQgVENQL1VEUCBoZWFkZXJzLg0KPg0KPkJ1 dCBmb3IgTlZPMyB0aGUgdGhpbmtpbmcgaXMgdG8gdXNlIGEgVURQIGhlYWRlciB3aGVyZSB0aGUg c291cmNlIFVEUCANCj5wb3J0IGlzIHNldCAoaW4gdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3MgTlZFKSB0byBzb21lIGhh c2ggb2YgdGhvc2UgaW5uZXIgYWRkcmVzc2VzIA0KPmFuZCBwb3J0cy4NCj5JZiB0aGF0IGlzIHRo ZSBzb3VyY2Ugb2YgZW50cm9weSwgd2h5IGRvIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gYWxzbyBjYXJyeSA5NiBiaXRz IA0KPm9mIHRoZSBpbm5lciBwYWNrZXQgaW4gdGhlIE9BTSBmcmFtZXM/DQo+DQo+UmVnYXJkcywN Cj4gICAgIEVyaWsNCj4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCm52bzMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpudm8zQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL252bzMNCg== From nobody Sun May 24 23:49:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E871B2ABB for ; 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[73.189.176.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id dk5sm8912896pdb.88.2015.05.24.23.49.19 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 24 May 2015 23:49:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Sam Aldrin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_18A0CE5B-1CE9-41E6-A1F2-A7DAA701EF20" Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 23:49:23 -0700 Message-Id: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> To: nvo3@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: NVO3 Working Group Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 06:49:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_18A0CE5B-1CE9-41E6-A1F2-A7DAA701EF20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Minutes are now uploaded. They could be found at=20 = > Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes. Do let me know if there need any changes or corrections. cheers -sam= --Apple-Mail=_18A0CE5B-1CE9-41E6-A1F2-A7DAA701EF20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Minutes are now uploaded.
They could be found at 

Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes.

Do let me know if there need any changes or corrections.

cheers
-sam
--Apple-Mail=_18A0CE5B-1CE9-41E6-A1F2-A7DAA701EF20-- From nobody Mon May 25 02:09:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1D21A88B6 for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 02:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJNZpahVS9ih for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 02:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 333911A88B0 for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 02:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSX71816; Mon, 25 May 2015 09:09:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 May 2015 10:09:20 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.152]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:09:12 +0800 From: Liuyuanjiao To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-liu-nvo3-vxlan-security-option-01 Thread-Index: AdCWynTaMC50pF3HQXetKGUmvcypWw== Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 09:09:11 +0000 Message-ID: <2CD727D18B6A934D965A710E2CBF4A096FB24E68@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.91.27] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2CD727D18B6A934D965A710E2CBF4A096FB24E68nkgeml512mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Liuyuanjiao Subject: [nvo3] draft-liu-nvo3-vxlan-security-option-01 X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 09:09:28 -0000 --_000_2CD727D18B6A934D965A710E2CBF4A096FB24E68nkgeml512mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Fellows: We have proposed a draft for VXLAN Security Solution. If you have = any questions or you are interested. Please discuss it with us, our purpose is to build a security Solu= tion for VXLAN Scenario. Best Regards Liu Yuanjiao --_000_2CD727D18B6A934D965A710E2CBF4A096FB24E68nkgeml512mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Fellows:=

 

     &= nbsp;   We have proposed a draft for VXLAN Security Solution. If = you have any questions or you are interested.

 

     &= nbsp;   Please discuss it with us, our purpose is to build a secu= rity Solution for VXLAN Scenario.

 

 

 

Best Regards<= /p>

     &= nbsp;   Liu Yuanjiao

--_000_2CD727D18B6A934D965A710E2CBF4A096FB24E68nkgeml512mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon May 25 17:44:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CCC1A9130 for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:44:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_BACKHAIR_22=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DT1A37HaastD for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFA91A883A for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSY36841; Tue, 26 May 2015 00:44:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 26 May 2015 01:44:18 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.89]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 26 May 2015 08:44:08 +0800 From: Haoweiguo To: Qin Wu , "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" , Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? Thread-Index: AQHQlx0XfINJEeYR/UqHxPbkIjKPT52NavCr Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 00:44:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <555F4BE6.6080600@arista.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.135.23.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? 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Mon, 25 May 2015 17:50:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6hDqfpofkLa for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0B8C1ACEED for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 17:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 367C2F91B38; Tue, 26 May 2015 00:50:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t4Q0oTWA010034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 May 2015 02:50:29 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA05.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.1.213]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 26 May 2015 02:50:29 +0200 From: "Garcia Del Rio, Diego (Diego)" To: Benson Schliesser Thread-Topic: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting Thread-Index: AQHQj9jA4Rro/ELya0yMcYGeX8G5QZ2NfDpE Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 00:50:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55574026.6060707@queuefull.net> In-Reply-To: <55574026.6060707@queuefull.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] Agenda for 2015-May-22 Virtual Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 00:50:33 -0000 Sorry everyone for missing the interim meeting and the presentation. Had fl= ight issues and Couldn't make it in time to present.=20 > On May 16, 2015, at 08:03, Benson Schliesser wrot= e: >=20 > Dear NVO3 Contributors - >=20 > For the upcoming virtual interim meeting on May-22, the focus is to discu= ss the topic of OAM. >=20 > A draft agenda has been posted at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interi= m/2015/05/22/nvo3/agenda/agenda-interim-2015-nvo3-9. >=20 > As always, the meeting details can be found at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org= /wg/nvo3/trac/wiki/WikiStart. >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > -Benson & Matthew >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Tue May 26 07:50:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CEB1B2F5F for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V0jBcI0pRiuk for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E55F81B2F54 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSZ17357; Tue, 26 May 2015 14:50:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML706-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.225) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 26 May 2015 15:50:28 +0100 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml706-chm ([10.193.5.225]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:25 -0700 From: Lucy yong To: Sam Aldrin , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded Thread-Index: AQHQlrb2+TJSwh+07USyHH6wFKeA852OUE7w Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> References: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.152.145] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812ADdfweml701chm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: NVO3 Working Group Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:50:33 -0000 --_000_2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812ADdfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are the points I made at the last in the NVO3 interim meeting. * NVO3 architecture decouples control plane and data plane, but NVE= and NVA functions integrate VN layer and VN transport layer together. NVA = does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform the lookup and tunnel functions. = This has difference from traditional VPNs technology where control plane an= d data plane couples but VN layer and VN transport layer are separated at t= he architecture. * In NVO3, there are tunnel trace and underlay path trace. Tunnel t= race is the tunnel endpoint trace including tunnel stitching case. Underlay= path trace is the path from ingress NVE to egress NVE including each under= lay intermediate hops. The end-to-end path in overlay relates to tunnel tr= ace only. We need separate two traces clearly. Lucy From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 AM To: nvo3@ietf.org Cc: NVO3 Working Group Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded Minutes are now uploaded. They could be found at Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes. Do let me know if there need any changes or corrections. cheers -sam --_000_2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812ADdfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here are the points I mad= e at the last in the NVO3 interim meeting.

·      = ;   NVO3 architecture= decouples control plane and data plane, but NVE and NVA functions integrat= e VN layer and VN transport layer together. NVA does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform the lookup and tunnel functions. This has differe= nce from traditional VPNs technology where control plane and data plane cou= ples but VN layer and VN transport layer are separated at the architecture.

·      = ;   In NVO3, there ar= e tunnel trace and underlay path trace. Tunnel trace is the tunnel endpoint= trace including tunnel stitching case. Underlay path trace is the path from ingress NVE to egress NVE including each underlay i= ntermediate hops.  The end-to-end path in overlay relates to tunnel tr= ace only.  We need separate two traces clearly.

 <= /p>

Lucy

From: nvo3 [ma= ilto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 AM
To: nvo3@ietf.org
Cc: NVO3 Working Group
Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded

 

Minutes are now uploaded.

They could be found at 

 

Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes.<= /p>

 

Do let me know if there need any changes or correcti= ons.

 

cheers

-sam

--_000_2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812ADdfweml701chm_-- From nobody Tue May 26 08:11:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6371A8981 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 08:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Y0X7imdVGLZ for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 08:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28AE21A8978 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 08:11:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.178.112; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Lucy yong'" , "'Sam Aldrin'" , References: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> In-Reply-To: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 11:11:19 -0400 Message-ID: <012101d097c6$384a5a20$a8df0e60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0122_01D097A4.B13BC760" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQMH8x+q9G9WthUUtJtxYH+xb1NprQH51Sl/mw/XZNA= Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'NVO3 Working Group' Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 15:11:33 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0122_01D097A4.B13BC760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lucy: I'm sorry I missed this in the notes. I'm sure Sam will update the charter. Sue From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lucy yong Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 10:50 AM To: Sam Aldrin; nvo3@ietf.org Cc: NVO3 Working Group Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded Here are the points I made at the last in the NVO3 interim meeting. . NVO3 architecture decouples control plane and data plane, but NVE and NVA functions integrate VN layer and VN transport layer together. NVA does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform the lookup and tunnel functions. This has difference from traditional VPNs technology where control plane and data plane couples but VN layer and VN transport layer are separated at the architecture. . In NVO3, there are tunnel trace and underlay path trace. Tunnel trace is the tunnel endpoint trace including tunnel stitching case. Underlay path trace is the path from ingress NVE to egress NVE including each underlay intermediate hops. The end-to-end path in overlay relates to tunnel trace only. We need separate two traces clearly. Lucy From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 AM To: nvo3@ietf.org Cc: NVO3 Working Group Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded Minutes are now uploaded. They could be found at Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes. Do let me know if there need any changes or corrections. cheers -sam ------=_NextPart_000_0122_01D097A4.B13BC760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lucy:

 

I’m sorry I missed this in the notes.   I’m = sure Sam will update the charter.

 

Sue

 

From:= = nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lucy = yong
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 10:50 AM
To: Sam = Aldrin; nvo3@ietf.org
Cc: NVO3 Working = Group
Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting = minutes uploaded

 

Here are the points I made at the last in the NVO3 interim = meeting.

·         = NVO3 architecture decouples control plane and data plane, but NVE and = NVA functions integrate VN layer and VN transport layer together. NVA = does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform the lookup and tunnel = functions. This has difference from traditional VPNs technology where = control plane and data plane couples but VN layer and VN transport layer = are separated at the architecture.

·         = In NVO3, there are tunnel trace and underlay path trace. Tunnel trace = is the tunnel endpoint trace including tunnel stitching case. Underlay = path trace is the path from ingress NVE to egress NVE including each = underlay intermediate hops.  The end-to-end path in overlay relates = to tunnel trace only.  We need separate two traces = clearly.

 

Lucy

From:= = nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 = AM
To: nvo3@ietf.org
Cc: NVO3 = Working Group
Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting = minutes uploaded

 

Minutes are = now uploaded.

They could be = found at 

<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/201= 5/05/22/nvo3/minutes/minutes-interim-2015-nvo3-9>

 

Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking = notes.

 

Do let me know if there need any changes or = corrections.

 

cheers

-sam

------=_NextPart_000_0122_01D097A4.B13BC760-- From nobody Tue May 26 19:54:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC0B1AD1DB for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vXK4WYOBffSz for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com (mail-pd0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C42B71AD0CB for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdfh10 with SMTP id h10so105077101pdf.3 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=myhtLnCnPiILIQZ1OPDO4l2C2y+gS0Az3bkRCVxilYg=; b=XtCJ4Ygckuy7fNIcfWkd8YjCxTYy9PCbkOeRcOnEct3WHBLKnuRwiP0eS7/Sfw/YNL eNCMaav8IAPW7unYHG/aUjZI49X0dL+OpmOQSjc8q/QiQIaA//KlB1kBTRAhpRg+JpRV HvNA5gcvA3rBGeAyEFHn/zoggojUtgKlBfDNWLwmB0iHQTYQFG4FdTIDJMgTfX78LssG Xv9O6d0/kvDEAwr9OofrfR97Dys5kTpzRAq0G5z7ug1KlCJO1WtMg7hC8bnRj+mDYOl7 lV//qLHlVpDqZ2nlY0XgOdQrywS/WRIXb5TBbSXyYq/bhz/nQQKIiu/ViNhMCZa6jQmq FocQ== X-Received: by 10.66.102.37 with SMTP id fl5mr55306835pab.88.1432695271461; Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.17] (c-73-189-176-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.189.176.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id de4sm14376609pbb.95.2015.05.26.19.54.30 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D28F7D2D-6414-4934-A8BE-FFBE7FC9365A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: IETF In-Reply-To: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 19:54:29 -0700 Message-Id: <19985CD8-6922-44C2-BC5C-64B38EDC5928@gmail.com> References: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> To: Lucy yong X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: NVO3 Working Group , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 02:54:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D28F7D2D-6414-4934-A8BE-FFBE7FC9365A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 You have to be specific on where you made those points and changes needs = to be applied. As none of the note takes captured, unless provided exact locations you = made those comments, they cannot be automagically integrated/merged.=20 Having said that, couldn=E2=80=99t parse one of the sentences. could you = clarify? See below. > On May 26, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Lucy yong wrote: >=20 > Here are the points I made at the last in the NVO3 interim meeting. > =C2=B7 NVO3 architecture decouples control plane and data = plane, but NVE and NVA functions integrate VN layer and VN transport = layer together. NVA does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform the lookup = and tunnel functions. This has difference from traditional VPNs = technology where control plane and data plane couples but VN layer and = VN transport layer are separated at the architecture. What does it mean by, CP and DP couples but VN layer and VN transport = are separated at the architecture? > =C2=B7 In NVO3, there are tunnel trace and underlay path = trace. Tunnel trace is the tunnel endpoint trace including tunnel = stitching case. Underlay path trace is the path from ingress NVE to = egress NVE including each underlay intermediate hops. The end-to-end = path in overlay relates to tunnel trace only. We need separate two = traces clearly. > =20 > Lucy > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sam Aldrin > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 AM > To: nvo3@ietf.org > Cc: NVO3 Working Group > Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded > =20 > Minutes are now uploaded. > They could be found at=20 > = > > =20 > Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking notes. > =20 > Do let me know if there need any changes or corrections. > =20 > cheers > -sam --Apple-Mail=_D28F7D2D-6414-4934-A8BE-FFBE7FC9365A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 You have to be specific on where you made those points and = changes needs to be applied.
As none of the note takes = captured, unless provided exact locations you made those comments, they = cannot be automagically integrated/merged. 

Having said that, couldn=E2=80=99t = parse one of the sentences. could you clarify?
See = below.

On May 26, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com> wrote:

Here are the points I made at the last in = the NVO3 interim meeting.
=C2=B7         NVO3 architecture decouples control plane = and data plane, but NVE and NVA functions integrate VN layer and VN = transport layer together. NVA does inner/outer mapping and NVEs perform = the lookup and tunnel functions. This has difference from traditional = VPNs technology where control plane and data plane couples but VN layer = and VN transport layer are separated at the = architecture.
What does it mean by, = CP and DP couples but VN layer and VN transport are separated at the = architecture?

=C2=B7         In NVO3, there are tunnel trace and = underlay path trace. Tunnel trace is the tunnel endpoint trace including = tunnel stitching case. Underlay path trace is the path from ingress NVE = to egress NVE including each underlay intermediate hops.  The = end-to-end path in overlay relates to tunnel trace only.  We need = separate two traces clearly.
 
Lucy
From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Sam Aldrin
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 1:49 = AM
To: nvo3@ietf.org
Cc: NVO3 Working Group
Subject: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 = interim meeting minutes uploaded
 
Minutes are now uploaded.
They could be found = at 
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/05/22/nvo3/minute= s/minutes-interim-2015-nvo3-9>
 
Thanks to Sue and Matt for taking = notes.
 
Do let me know if there need any changes or = corrections.
 
cheers
-sam

= --Apple-Mail=_D28F7D2D-6414-4934-A8BE-FFBE7FC9365A-- From nobody Wed May 27 08:45:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E791B2B7B for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 08:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I7CSSMOqXaX3 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 08:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B6E81A8A01 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 08:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BTA37317; Wed, 27 May 2015 15:45:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.130) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 27 May 2015 16:45:22 +0100 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml703-chm ([10.193.5.130]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 27 May 2015 08:45:10 -0700 From: Lucy yong To: IETF Thread-Topic: [nvo3] NVo3 May 22 2015 interim meeting minutes uploaded Thread-Index: AQHQlrb2+TJSwh+07USyHH6wFKeA852OUE7wgAFIgoCAAGIy0A== Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 15:45:10 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D5718182E@dfweml701-chm> References: <9AEDE5D3-DD18-4CDF-851E-D118525768F4@gmail.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D571812AD@dfweml701-chm> 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SUy7Bo7JBBka for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 10:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c.mail.sonic.net (c.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD0BA1A88C9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 10:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id t4RHZOOu019502 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 May 2015 10:35:26 -0700 Message-ID: <5566005B.4040808@acm.org> Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 10:35:23 -0700 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nvo3@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVZHDhTXbv7Rj7LljiDWsB/VUCOyncT7kx0DXsi3RtFK+Sfa27FF5y0zTCALif9WOlhyJhX0CqrUBKnz7WZD/2ZF X-Sonic-ID: C;lhCnwZYE5RGQVvjYVPtzAg== M;pLrUwpYE5RGQVvjYVPtzAg== X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd Archived-At: Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 17:35:33 -0000 On 5/22/15 1:28 PM, Deepak Kumar (dekumar) wrote: > Hi Erik, > > Agreed we don't ned 96 bytes of customer data in all scenario for intra-DC > but it will required in few scenarios and need to be use judiciously by > user. Deepak, As I understand your example below it is about testing inter-subnet traffic i.e. a case where you have overlay routers which forward packets based on the original/inner IP header. That seems like a case were one could be using existing IP tools (ping, traceroute) in the overlay, and perhaps extending the information returned in ICMP errors following the approach used for MPLS (RFC4884 and RFC4950). Perhaps we should consider those RFCs more in NVO3 since it means less need for new tools and new training - many ping and traceroute implementations already print the extensions. Do you see a need for the 96 bits of customer data when there is no NVO3 overlay routers in the path? Thanks, Erik > > > Network Diagram (Tried my best I will do better diagram in the draft) > > > > / S1 \ / S2 \ (L3 VTEP) > / \ / \ (full mesh in east/west, x1<->s1,s2, > x2<->s1,s2, ...) > / \ / \ > X1 X2 X3 X4 ... > / \ / | > / \ / | full mesh in east/west l1<->x1, x2, x3, x4, > l2 <-> x1,x2,x3,x4, l3 ..) > / \ / | > L1 L2 L3 L4 Š (L2 VTEP) > > | | > H1 H2 ŠŠ > > > Now H1 is host, L1 is Switch, X1 is switch in underlay, S1 is switch with > l3 gateway functionality. > > All switches are connected in East West fully connected with multiple way > ecmp. > > Customer want to test L1 - Lx scenario providing Host information (H1, and > Hx) > For example: H1 and Hx are in inter subnet and across mobility domain or > any scenario where traffic will reach till L3 VTEP. > L3 VTEP will do de-encap of outer header, vxlan header and do again > re-encap of packet towards Lx. > Now to forward packet toward Lx Inner payload should be same as customer > information so right hashing is choosen as it's done for real data packet. > > Thanks, > Deepak > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/15 8:31 AM, "Erik Nordmark" wrote: > >> Deepak, >> >> Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your >> slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" >> I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for >> ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the >> inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. >> >> But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP >> port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses >> and ports. >> If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits >> of the inner packet in the OAM frames? >> >> Regards, >> Erik >> > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > From nobody Thu May 28 11:51:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907771A1B47 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_BACKHAIR_22=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XJQ4GdqC56R1 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53A671A1AFB for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3896; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432839059; x=1434048659; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=VHl/MJWrZRVM6Q9lSRvxR8GQKmMSsabAKSkPBRn4/3c=; b=QiIE2hsZs8x4ru9OjYlhXgQcvQhr6/pNv7wyZO7jW+6niBMoL9WS1Qfn dQJ6FjpzTVVVFLR7jSFIth8yn5EXATK3YumNYsByXKDsxVgE5WIMmNzFp RNpaSQ42LnouXXEqaWZoTfM5jYUpYHWH7cNWBklUaFSXxUUddsw6BEblX 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0D9AwC3YmdV/4oNJK1cgxBUXga9bgmBUAqFdwKBTDgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCIBAQEDAQEBASRHCwULAgEIGC4nCyUCBA4FHIgJCA3VaAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEikGBAoRTMweDF4EWAQSTCIsPgSmSLYNZI2GBBSECHYFSb4FGgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,513,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="2622175" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 May 2015 18:50:58 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4SIov7N010375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 May 2015 18:50:57 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.5.166]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:50:57 -0500 From: "Darrel Lewis (darlewis)" To: Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? Thread-Index: AQHQmXc6LHKNNcAOmEykuXLaevyUeg== Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: <4ACA2AFA-E2D3-4DA6-A7BA-10B85FA94A75@cisco.com> References: <5566005B.4040808@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <5566005B.4040808@acm.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.253.181] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <07019849410B704FB282CB0D17419B2E@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Darrel Lewis \(darlewis\)" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:51:03 -0000 On May 27, 2015, at 10:35 AM, Erik Nordmark wrote: > On 5/22/15 1:28 PM, Deepak Kumar (dekumar) wrote: >> Hi Erik, >>=20 >> Agreed we don't ned 96 bytes of customer data in all scenario for intra-= DC >> but it will required in few scenarios and need to be use judiciously by >> user. > Deepak, >=20 > As I understand your example below it is about testing inter-subnet traff= ic i.e. a case where you have overlay routers which forward packets based o= n the original/inner IP header. >=20 > That seems like a case were one could be using existing IP tools (ping, t= raceroute) in the overlay, and perhaps extending the information returned i= n ICMP errors following the approach used for MPLS (RFC4884 and RFC4950). P= erhaps we should consider those RFCs more in NVO3 since it means less need = for new tools and new training - many ping and traceroute implementations a= lready print the extensions. This approach seems reasonable to me. Its certainly what we=92ve attempted= to do with the LISP overlay. I think the problem space is complex enough = without trying to bold the ocean. The good thing about this incremental ap= proach is that if operational experience proofs a need, it can be addressed= then. -=3DDarrel >=20 > Do you see a need for the 96 bits of customer data when there is no NVO3 = overlay routers in the path? >=20 > Thanks, > Erik >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Network Diagram (Tried my best I will do better diagram in the draft) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> / S1 \ / S2 \ (L3 VTEP) >> / \ / \ (full mesh in east/west, x1<->s1,s2, >> x2<->s1,s2, ...) >> / \ / \ >> X1 X2 X3 X4 ... >> / \ / | >> / \ / | full mesh in east/west l1<->x1, x2, x3, x4, >> l2 <-> x1,x2,x3,x4, l3 ..) >> / \ / | >> L1 L2 L3 L4 =8A (L2 VTEP) >>=20 >> | | >> H1 H2 =8A=8A >>=20 >>=20 >> Now H1 is host, L1 is Switch, X1 is switch in underlay, S1 is switch wit= h >> l3 gateway functionality. >>=20 >> All switches are connected in East West fully connected with multiple wa= y >> ecmp. >>=20 >> Customer want to test L1 - Lx scenario providing Host information (H1, a= nd >> Hx) >> For example: H1 and Hx are in inter subnet and across mobility domain or >> any scenario where traffic will reach till L3 VTEP. >> L3 VTEP will do de-encap of outer header, vxlan header and do again >> re-encap of packet towards Lx. >> Now to forward packet toward Lx Inner payload should be same as customer >> information so right hashing is choosen as it's done for real data packe= t. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Deepak >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 5/22/15 8:31 AM, "Erik Nordmark" wrote: >>=20 >>> Deepak, >>>=20 >>> Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your >>> slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" >>> I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for >>> ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the >>> inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. >>>=20 >>> But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP >>> port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses >>> and ports. >>> If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits >>> of the inner packet in the OAM frames? >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Erik >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > nvo3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 From nobody Thu May 28 12:36:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086BC1A8787 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_BACKHAIR_22=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vke2QMZ4UPGf for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07A0E1A70FE for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:36:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4744; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432841787; x=1434051387; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=z1LCy0b4SdHpE/CkZQRFPehkE2hkhUWvxfwB0rgE/L8=; b=arW5fWtSTD+DKmT4LRpX/yuMGkCBEgHL6w2WwM4b8Bj73krD9UpOnuj2 1csZ/M+gEXvgPLO2dBKw2jW6911iQv0glKz3oV28NApdHp4mIFkxmZ54U +F3YQ0QPQ7YwvnopezORkm2hU3/oG8Tedb1lWZtrFZ5glFKzQtY2/d7gV w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0ANBQA6bWdV/49dJa1cgxBUXga/RwqFdwKBTUwBAQEBAQGBC4QjAQEEAQEBJEcLEgEIGFULJQIEAQ0FHIgRDdVlAQEBAQEBAQECAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIpBgQKFBgeELQWTCIsPgSmSLYNZI2GBBSECHYFSb4FGgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,513,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="15599641" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 May 2015 19:36:26 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4SJaQYJ029401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 May 2015 19:36:26 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.238]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 28 May 2015 14:36:25 -0500 From: "Deepak Kumar (dekumar)" To: "Darrel Lewis (darlewis)" , Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? Thread-Index: AQHQmX2VBB/JNqPJ90+JyZ+mF9bwuA== Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:36:16 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4ACA2AFA-E2D3-4DA6-A7BA-10B85FA94A75@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.2.130206 x-originating-ip: [10.154.213.101] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-ID: <9E04691E0D1B5D4AB51AE7543F1B86D6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nvo3] OAM: 96 bits of customer data? X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:36:29 -0000 Hi, Inline +++DK: On 5/28/15 11:50 AM, "Darrel Lewis (darlewis)" wrote: > >On May 27, 2015, at 10:35 AM, Erik Nordmark wrote: > >> On 5/22/15 1:28 PM, Deepak Kumar (dekumar) wrote: >>> Hi Erik, >>>=20 >>> Agreed we don't ned 96 bytes of customer data in all scenario for >>>intra-DC >>> but it will required in few scenarios and need to be use judiciously by >>> user. >> Deepak, >>=20 >> As I understand your example below it is about testing inter-subnet >>traffic i.e. a case where you have overlay routers which forward packets >>based on the original/inner IP header. >>=20 >> That seems like a case were one could be using existing IP tools (ping, >>traceroute) in the overlay, and perhaps extending the information >>returned in ICMP errors following the approach used for MPLS (RFC4884 >>and RFC4950). Perhaps we should consider those RFCs more in NVO3 since >>it means less need for new tools and new training - many ping and >>traceroute implementations already print the extensions. +++DK: Even in case of intra-subnet traffic we will go till Spine if customer creates their data center in multiple pods or domains. Eg:- Each PODs has 100 Leafs pair, and connectivity between POD for even briding traffic route is only at L3 Spine. Within POD path taken will not go till S1,s2, but for inter-POD it will reach S1. Also Traceroute or TTL expiry doesn't test the exact datapath in forwarding in spine, as real traffic will cover as ASIC treat outer layer TTL expiry different than looking at inner header, de-encap, encap changing vni and forwarding towards the leafs. Thanks, Deepak > >This approach seems reasonable to me. Its certainly what we've attempted >to do with the LISP overlay. I think the problem space is complex enough >without trying to bold the ocean. The good thing about this incremental >approach is that if operational experience proofs a need, it can be >addressed then. > >-=3DDarrel > >>=20 >> Do you see a need for the 96 bits of customer data when there is no >>NVO3 overlay routers in the path? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Erik >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Network Diagram (Tried my best I will do better diagram in the draft) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> / S1 \ / S2 \ (L3 VTEP) >>> / \ / \ (full mesh in east/west, >>>x1<->s1,s2, >>> x2<->s1,s2, ...) >>> / \ / \ >>> X1 X2 X3 X4 ... >>> / \ / | >>> / \ / | full mesh in east/west l1<->x1, x2, x3, >>>x4, >>> l2 <-> x1,x2,x3,x4, l3 ..) >>> / \ / | >>> L1 L2 L3 L4 =A9 (L2 VTEP) >>>=20 >>> | | >>> H1 H2 =A9=A9 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Now H1 is host, L1 is Switch, X1 is switch in underlay, S1 is switch >>>with >>> l3 gateway functionality. >>>=20 >>> All switches are connected in East West fully connected with multiple >>>way >>> ecmp. >>>=20 >>> Customer want to test L1 - Lx scenario providing Host information (H1, >>>and >>> Hx) >>> For example: H1 and Hx are in inter subnet and across mobility domain >>>or >>> any scenario where traffic will reach till L3 VTEP. >>> L3 VTEP will do de-encap of outer header, vxlan header and do again >>> re-encap of packet towards Lx. >>> Now to forward packet toward Lx Inner payload should be same as >>>customer >>> information so right hashing is choosen as it's done for real data >>>packet. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Deepak >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 5/22/15 8:31 AM, "Erik Nordmark" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Deepak, >>>>=20 >>>> Didn't have time to go into this on the call, but the draft and your >>>> slides refer to "96 bits of customer data" >>>> I understand why that was needed for TRILL - basically the entropy for >>>> ECMP/LAG is calculated at each hop in TRILL so it needs to look at the >>>> inner Ethernet, IP, and TCP/UDP headers. >>>>=20 >>>> But for NVO3 the thinking is to use a UDP header where the source UDP >>>> port is set (in the ingress NVE) to some hash of those inner addresses >>>> and ports. >>>> If that is the source of entropy, why do we need to also carry 96 bits >>>> of the inner packet in the OAM frames? >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>> Erik >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nvo3 mailing list >>> nvo3@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> nvo3 mailing list >> nvo3@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > From nobody Sun May 31 07:29:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F8F1A1B4C for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:29:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.968 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8H4cF-CmqAyA for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-f175.google.com (mail-ig0-f175.google.com [209.85.213.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8026B1A1B27 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbyr2 with SMTP id yr2so44755442igb.0 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2O88rWCcBl2fHOBya0lcsegTq7tawidbQr1f+3kvhQE=; b=ai1skCvBUJW6FKreFLG2vvboA6/cnXgpQTXQcjlGEA8bqQKxYrE4yqdfe1ZAJpzVPT ZkulAHDpHaJVZKgUzd2iYRfaCJ6kAzu77RTFeM38KyYRNUWjxWx0mQ3z8T8wsM1s04YO 8GmBB1E3ba2GNZ40M6pyDA7Hbdffg4XSkW+QtGHIco7XfPofXo6rK6uOcVF+SCnBK+R8 aNgfWiBpiSbFLqjsV7MK2LXkGAxvWn6owXQFOTNGD+DR9MmO0egqpkPCns/J6YWFLDSh 9IB6hRIZkrMJz92TIyet/aljZFju/WWtvSv4mQsC410dy9yBfAJo+uwypFElz9tyjQu3 KgJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkEIwptEbOE+wGTUsvbbfT7PzmEUC8ca7nDO+rmNAIciJvGOpi0v4I+BXHcxkwFsgLxnBL3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.150.14 with SMTP id y14mr21333461iod.55.1433082538769; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.11.16 with HTTP; Sun, 31 May 2015 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150531092647.6525.47580.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150531092647.6525.47580.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 10:28:58 -0400 Message-ID: From: Benson Schliesser To: "nvo3@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140289ca85aa7051761874f Archived-At: Subject: [nvo3] Fwd: Nomcom 2015-2016: Second call for volunteers X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 14:29:03 -0000 --001a1140289ca85aa7051761874f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *NomCom Chair 2015* Date: Sunday, May 31, 2015 Subject: Nomcom 2015-2016: Second call for volunteers To: IETF Announcement List The IETF nomcom appoints folks to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. Ten voting members for the nomcom are selected in a verifiably random way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population. The details of the operation of the nomcom can be found in RFC 7437, and BCP10/RFC3797 details the selection algorithm. Volunteers must have attended 3 of the past 5 IETF meetings. As specified in RFC 7437, that means three out of the five past meetings up to the time this email announcement goes out to start the solicitation of volunteers. The five meetings out of which you must have attended *three* are: IETF 88 (Vancouver), \ 89 (London), \ 90 (Toronto), *** ANY THREE! 91 (Honolulu), / 92 (Dallas) / If you qualify, please volunteer. However, much as we want this, before you decide to volunteer, please be sure you are willing to forgo appointmen= t to any of the positions for which this nomcom is responsible. As of today, we have 121 confirmed volunteers. 45 of those who ticked the box at the Dallas IETF meeting and are deemed qualified have still not responded; 81 people who ticked the box have been contacted because we coul= d not verify their qualification; of those, 8 have confirmed that they are no= t qualified. Thank you for volunteering! The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2016 IETF meeting, and thus the positions for which this nomcom is responsible, are IAOC: No terms expire at this time. IAB: Mary Barnes Joe Hildebrand Ted Hardie Erik Nordmark Brian Trammell Marc Blanchet IESG: Alissa Cooper (ART) Barry Leiba (ART) Brian Haberman (Internet) Benoit Claise (Operations and Management) Alia Atlas (Routing) Kathleen Moriarty (Security) Martin Stiemerling (Transport) The Applications and Real-Time (ART) area is the expected new area resulting from the merge of the APP and RAI areas. All appointments are for 2 years. The ART and Routing areas have 3 ADs and the General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas have at least one continuing AD. The primary activity for this nomcom will begin in July 2015 and should be completed in January 2016. The nomcom will have regularly scheduled conference calls to ensure progress. (We might dogfood WebRTC) There will be activities to collect requirements from the community, review candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about candidates, and talk to candidates. Thus, being a nomcom member does require some time commitment; but it is also a very rewarding experience. It is very important that you be able to attend IETF94 (Yokohama) to conduct interviews. Being at IETF93 (Prague) is useful for orientation. Being at IETF95 is not essential. Please volunteer by sending me an email before 11:59 pm CET (UTC +2 hours) June 22, 2015, as follows: To: nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org Subject: Nomcom 2015-16 Volunteer Please include the following information in the email body: Your Full Name: __________ // as you write it on the IETF registration form Current Primary Affiliation: // Typically what goes in the Company field // in the IETF Registration Form Emails: _______________ // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings // Preferred email address first Telephone: _______________________ // For confirmation if selected You should expect an email response from me within 3 business days stating whether or not you are qualified. If you don't receive this response, please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line. If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider that nomcom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of the IETF. Questions by email or voice are welcome. Volunteering for the nomcom is a great way to contribute to the IETF! You will find a detailed timeline on the nomcom web site at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/ I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process, within the next couple weeks. Thank you! Harald Alvestrand hta+nomcom@alvestrand.no nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D qualified volunteers so far, in alphabetical order by firs= t name Adam Montville Adrian Farrel ANDREW Dolganow Andrew Newton Andy Bierman ANM Zaheduzzaman Sarker Anoop Ghanwani Anthony Nadalin Ari Keranen Benno Overeinder Bing Liu Borje Ohlman Cengiz Alaettinoglu Charles Eckel Charles Perkins Chris Bowers Christer Holmberg Christian O'Flaherty Cong Liu Cullen Jennings Damien Saucez Daniele Ceccarelli David Lamparter David Mandelberg Dean Bogdanovic Derek Atkins Dhruv Dhody Donald Eastlake 3rd Edward Lemon Eliot Lear Emil Ivov Eric Gray Eric Vyncke Fernando Gont Fred Baker George Michaelson George Swallow Georgios Karagiannis Gonzalo Salgueiro Gregory Mirsky Hannes Gredler Huaimo Chen Ignas Bagdonas Jason Weil Jean-Marc Valin Jesus Maria Martin Garcia Joel Halpern John Bradley John Brzozowski John Mattsson John Scudder Jon Hudson jouni korhonen Karen O'Donoghue Keith Moore Keyur Patel Larry Masinter Laurent Ciavaglia Lee Howard Liang Xia Linda Dunbar Lixia Zhang Luigi Iannone Mach CHEN Magnus Westerlund Mark Townsley Matthew Bocci Matthew Lepinski Mehmet Ersue Michael Jones Michael StJohns nalini elkins Nancy Cam-Winget Niel Harper Ning Kong Ning Zong Ole Jacobsen Ole Tr=C3=B8an P=C3=A5l-Erik Martinsen Pascal Thubert Patrick McManus Paul Wouters Peter Koch Peter Yee QIN WU Rich Salz Richard Barnes Robby Simpson Ron Bonica Ross Callon Salvatore Loreto Sam K. Aldrin Sanjay Mishra Scott Mansfield Sheng Jiang SHUCHENG LIU Simon Perreault Sri Gundavelli Stephan Wenger Stephen Kent Steve Olshansky Steven Wright Suhas Nandakumar Suresh Krishnan Susan Hares Thomas Nadeau Tim Wicinski Timothy Terriberry Tina (Ting) Tsou (Zou) Tobias Gondrom Toerless Eckert Tomohiro Fujisaki Tony Hansen Uma Chunduri Vijay Gurbani Warren Kumari Wassim Haddad Wijnands IJsbrand Yi Zhao Yizhou Li Yuanlong Jiang --001a1140289ca85aa7051761874f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: NomCom Chair 20= 15 <nomcom-chair-2015@= ietf.org>
Date: Sunday, May 31, 2015
Subject: Nomcom 2015-2016= : Second call for volunteers
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>


The IETF nomcom appoints folks to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB,=
and the IESG.

Ten voting members for the nomcom are selected in a verifiably random
way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF
population.

The details of the operation of the nomcom can be found in RFC 7437,
and BCP10/RFC3797 details the selection algorithm.

Volunteers must have attended 3 of the past 5 IETF meetings.=C2=A0 As speci= fied
in RFC 7437, that means three out of the five past meetings up to the time<= br> this email announcement goes out to start the solicitation of volunteers. The five meetings out of which you must have attended *three*
are:

IETF 88 (Vancouver), \
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A089 (London),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0\<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A090 (Toronto),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0*** ANY THREE!
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A091 (Honolulu),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A092 (Dallas)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /<= br>
If you qualify, please volunteer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, much as we want this= , before
you decide to volunteer, please be sure you are willing to forgo appointmen= t
to any of the positions for which this nomcom is responsible.


As of today, we have 121 confirmed volunteers. 45 of those who ticked the box at the Dallas IETF meeting and are deemed qualified have still not
responded; 81 people who ticked the box have been contacted because we coul= d
not verify their qualification; of those, 8 have confirmed that they are no= t
qualified.

Thank you for volunteering!

The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2016 IETF
meeting, and thus the positions for which this nomcom is responsible, are
IAOC:
No terms expire at this time.

IAB:
Mary Barnes
Joe Hildebrand
Ted Hardie
Erik Nordmark
Brian Trammell
Marc Blanchet

IESG:
Alissa Cooper (ART)
Barry Leiba (ART)
Brian Haberman (Internet)
Benoit Claise (Operations and Management)
Alia Atlas (Routing)
Kathleen Moriarty (Security)
Martin Stiemerling (Transport)

The Applications=C2=A0 and Real-Time (ART) area is the expected new area resulting from the merge of the APP and RAI areas.
All appointments are for 2 years.
The ART and Routing areas have 3 ADs and the General area has 1; all other = areas have 2 ADs.
Thus, all areas have at least one continuing AD.


The primary activity for this nomcom will begin in July 2015 and should be<= br> completed in January 2016.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The nomcom will have regularly sched= uled
conference calls to ensure progress. (We might dogfood WebRTC)
There will be activities to collect requirements from the community, review=
candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about
candidates, and talk to candidates.

Thus, being a nomcom member does require some time commitment; but it is al= so
a very rewarding experience.

It is very important that you be able to attend IETF94 (Yokohama) to conduc= t interviews.
Being at IETF93 (Prague) is useful for orientation.=C2=A0 Being at IETF95 i= s not essential.

Please volunteer by sending me an email before 11:59 pm CET (UTC +2 hours)<= br> June 22, 2015, as follows:

To: nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org
Subject: Nomcom 2015-16 Volunteer

Please include the following information in the email body:

Your Full Name: __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // as you write it on the IETF registration form
Current Primary Affiliation:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // Typically what goes in the Company field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // in the IETF Registration Form
Emails: _______________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0// All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF me= etings
=C2=A0 =C2=A0// Preferred email address first
Telephone: _______________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 // For confirmation if selected

You should expect an email response from me within 3 business days stating<= br> whether or not you are qualified.=C2=A0 If you don't receive this respo= nse,
please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to th= e subject line.

If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider
that nomcom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of the IETF.=C2=A0 Questions by email or voice are welcome.
Volunteering for the nomcom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!

You will find a detailed timeline on the nomcom web site at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/

I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process,
within the next couple weeks.

Thank you!
Harald Alvestrand
hta+nomcom@alvestrand.no
nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 qualified volunteers so far, in alphabetical order by= first name

Adam Montville
Adrian Farrel
ANDREW Dolganow
Andrew Newton
Andy Bierman
ANM Zaheduzzaman Sarker
Anoop Ghanwani
Anthony Nadalin
Ari Keranen
Benno Overeinder
Bing Liu
Borje Ohlman
Cengiz Alaettinoglu
Charles Eckel
Charles Perkins
Chris Bowers
Christer Holmberg
Christian O'Flaherty
Cong Liu
Cullen Jennings
Damien Saucez
Daniele Ceccarelli
David Lamparter
David Mandelberg
Dean Bogdanovic
Derek Atkins
Dhruv Dhody
Donald Eastlake 3rd
Edward Lemon
Eliot Lear
Emil Ivov
Eric Gray
Eric Vyncke
Fernando Gont
Fred Baker
George Michaelson
George Swallow
Georgios Karagiannis
Gonzalo Salgueiro
Gregory Mirsky
Hannes Gredler
Huaimo Chen
Ignas Bagdonas
Jason Weil
Jean-Marc Valin
Jesus Maria Martin Garcia
Joel Halpern
John Bradley
John Brzozowski
John Mattsson
John Scudder
Jon Hudson
jouni korhonen
Karen O'Donoghue
Keith Moore
Keyur Patel
Larry Masinter
Laurent Ciavaglia
Lee Howard
Liang Xia
Linda Dunbar
Lixia Zhang
Luigi Iannone
Mach CHEN
Magnus Westerlund
Mark Townsley
Matthew Bocci
Matthew Lepinski
Mehmet Ersue
Michael Jones
Michael StJohns
nalini elkins
Nancy Cam-Winget
Niel Harper
Ning Kong
Ning Zong
Ole Jacobsen
Ole Tr=C3=B8an
P=C3=A5l-Erik Martinsen
Pascal Thubert
Patrick McManus
Paul Wouters
Peter Koch
Peter Yee
QIN WU
Rich Salz
Richard Barnes
Robby Simpson
Ron Bonica
Ross Callon
Salvatore Loreto
Sam K. Aldrin
Sanjay Mishra
Scott Mansfield
Sheng Jiang
SHUCHENG LIU
Simon Perreault
Sri Gundavelli
Stephan Wenger
Stephen Kent
Steve Olshansky
Steven Wright
Suhas Nandakumar
Suresh Krishnan
Susan Hares
Thomas Nadeau
Tim Wicinski
Timothy Terriberry
Tina (Ting) Tsou (Zou)
Tobias Gondrom
Toerless Eckert
Tomohiro Fujisaki
Tony Hansen
Uma Chunduri
Vijay Gurbani
Warren Kumari
Wassim Haddad
Wijnands IJsbrand
Yi Zhao
Yizhou Li
Yuanlong Jiang



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