Subject: [p2pi] Updated charter

From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:10:43 -0500

Folks: Enrico and I have updated the charter to reflect the caching
discussion we have had on the list over the past few days.

The updated charter is available at
   http://alto.tilab.com/docs/charter.txt

We've added the last bullet list -- reproduce here -- based
on the list discussion:

- A discovery mechanism for locating nearby hosts the querying node
   may not be aware of.  In certain P2P networks, hosts operating caches
   may be able to fulfill the node's needs as well as keep the traffic
   between peers localized.  In VoIP networks, nearby hosts operating
   relays may effectively be discovered to aid a VoIP client in
   establishing multimedia communications.  It is anticipated that
   if existing resource discovery mechanisms are sufficient to suit
   this purpose, then the WG will produce one or more documents
   describing how these discovery mechanisms may be used to
   effectively find the peers.  The discovery mechanism can be
   executed in the clients as well as in the oracle.  To allow
   clients that prefer the oracle to provide such information, the
   WG will produce extensions to the oracle signaling protocol to
   enable the peer or client to transfer the desired properties
   to the oracle for subsequent lookups.

Comments on it will be welcome.

Thanks,

- vijay
-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
2701 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9F-546, Lisle, Illinois 60532 (USA)
Email: vkg@{alcatel-lucent.com,bell-labs.com,acm.org}
WWW:   http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bell-labs
_______________________________________________
p2pi mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi

---

From: Enrico Marocco <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:23:46 +0200

> We've added the last bullet list -- reproduce here -- based

The new version also includes some changes reflecting comments received
on the mailing list. Diffs from the previous version are available at
http://alto.tilab.com/docs/charter.txt.diff

-- 
Ciao,
Enrico

---

From: "Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:12:35 -0400

Gurbani:

We thought that you accepted the comment on tracker-based system per your last email (July 15):

OLD:
The WG will consider tracker-based P2P systems (a la Bit Torrent)
as well as tracker-less P2P networks.

NEW:
The WG will consider tracker-based P2P systems (a la Bit Torrent)
that communicate among its Internet Service Provider (ISP)-based
P2P systems as well as tracker-less (i.e. Non-ISP) P2P networks.

BR/Radhika

PS: We are glad that you included a clarification on "oracle," this serves our purpose.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" 
Date: Monday, July 21, 2008 13:11
Subject: [p2pi] Updated charter
To: "[email-masked]" 

> may not be aware of. In certain P2P networks, hosts operating 
> caches may be able to fulfill the node's needs as well as keep 
> the traffic

---

From: "Woundy, Richard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:16:06 -0400

Radhika,

ISPs typically don't operate trackers, so I wouldn't refer to a
trackerless system as a "non-ISP" system.

Here is a more conventional understanding of a trackerless system copied
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_%28protocol%29: "Completed
torrent files are typically published on websites or elsewhere, and
registered with a tracker. The tracker maintains lists of the clients
currently participating in the torrent. Alternatively, in a trackerless
system (decentralized tracking) every peer acts as a tracker."

Or am I missing something?

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:13 PM
To: Vijay K. Gurbani
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [p2pi] Updated charter

Gurbani:

We thought that you accepted the comment on tracker-based system per
your last email (July 15):

OLD:

NEW:

BR/Radhika

PS: We are glad that you included a clarification on "oracle," this
serves our purpose.

---

From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:33:11 -0500

Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC wrote:
> OLD: The WG will consider tracker-based P2P systems (a la Bit
> Torrent) as well as tracker-less P2P networks.
> 
> NEW: The WG will consider tracker-based P2P systems (a la Bit
> Torrent) that communicate among its Internet Service Provider
> (ISP)-based P2P systems as well as tracker-less (i.e. Non-ISP) P2P
> networks.

Radhika: Apologies if my answer was ambiguous.  I had written:

   Tracker-less does not necessarily imply non-ISP any more than
   tracker-based implies explicit ISP support.  IMHO, I believe that
   the text as written in the draft charter is sufficient and
   the conflation of the role of an ISP with the need for trackers
   may serve to confuse the issue further.

I still believe this to be the case, and as such, ended up not
modifying that part.

> PS: We are glad that you included a clarification on "oracle," this

Sure.  Thanks for your time reviewing the charter and the
feedback on it.  Hope to see you in Dublin.

Regards,

- vijay

---

From: "Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:31:11 -0400

Gurbani:

Still, we need provide a clarification, like "oracle" what we mean by "tracker."

Otherwise, it will remain highly "incomplete" or ambiguous.

Radhika

---

From: "Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:37:51 -0400

Rich:

We still need to clarify what the "tracker" means from the technical point of view.

Otherwise, we may create ambiguties in BoF and eventually in the WG.

Radhika

----- Original Message -----
From: "Woundy, Richard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Monday, July 21, 2008 15:17
Subject: RE: [p2pi] Updated charter
To: "Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC" <[email-masked]>, "Vijay K. Gurbani" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]

> Here is a more conventional understanding of a trackerless system 
> copiedfrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_%28protocol%29: 
> "Completedtorrent files are typically published on websites or 
> elsewhere, and
> currently participating in the torrent. Alternatively, in a 
> trackerlesssystem (decentralized tracking) every peer acts as a 
> tracker."

---

From: "Woundy, Richard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:37:23 -0400

> We still need to clarify what the "tracker" means from the technical
point of view.

Fair enough.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC [mailto:[email-masked]]

Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:38 PM
To: Woundy, Richard
Cc: Vijay K. Gurbani; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: RE: [p2pi] Updated charter

Rich:

We still need to clarify what the "tracker" means from the technical
point of view.

Radhika

----- Original Message -----
From: "Woundy, Richard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Monday, July 21, 2008 15:17
Subject: RE: [p2pi] Updated charter
To: "Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC" <[email-masked]>,
"Vijay K. Gurbani" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]

---

From: Stanislav Shalunov <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:24:21 -0700

This looks good to me.  Thank you for listening.

--
Stanislav Shalunov