Subject: RE: Question for vendors and operators

From: George Tsirtsis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:28:02 -0500

All,

I have been encouraged to give Flarion's opinion/use of PANA which requires
me to wear my vendor's hat...which feels a bit uncomfortable on an IETF
mailing list... Still, I endure...

/--------------------------...
Here at Flarion we have developed a new link layer that we call Flash-OFDM.
This is a wireless link layer designed for Wide Area Networks (WAN),
cellular-type deployment and it is designed specifically for *data* i.e.:
The Internet

The technology is designed to localized all L2 effects to the air link ONLY
i.e.: between the mobile node and an Access Router that each include a
Flash-OFDM interface, while the rest of the network is simply IP routers and
back end systems. Each Flash-OFDM interface on the Access Router/base
station is a cell or sector of a cell. 

We happen to run IP directly over Flash-OFDM so we DO NOT use PPP, while we
use Mobile IP for mobility management. NOTE that due to the one-hop nature
of the link layer, there is no backend link layer infrastructure to protect
using link layer security. Still, since this is intended for wide-area
deployment by operators we need to be able to authenticate end users and we
also need to encrypt the airlink. 

Clearly, we can use yet another link layer specific mechanism to carry
whatever authentication we decide to use, but given the single hop focus of
this L2 technology we gain nothing by doing it this way. On the other hand
Flash-OFDM and our mobility management system is ideal for inter-technology
handoffs (e.g.:Flash-OFDM to 802.11), and by using link layer
authentication, we need two different authentication transports for two
different technologies.

So, if PANA existed today we would consider very seriously to adopt it and
so allow an operator to provide a single authentication client that can be
used for our own technology as well as for roaming to/from other
technologies. PANA would offer our customers (operators) one piece of client
authentication code and the ability to have exactly the same per user
settings and behavior, whatever the underlying technology. 
\-------------------------...

Removing my vendor's hat...aahh...feels better...

I also believe that the Internet must have a way to authenticate end points
to control points (especially the access router) in the infrastructure and
vice versa.  This is a fundamental function that is needed, no matter what a
single vendors wants.

Regards
George

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:01 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Question for vendors and operators

Hello,

We would like to hear from vendors and operators if PANA would be
something that solves a problem in their networks and hence would like
to see it standardized. 
Would PANA be something that operators would deploy as an alternative
to doing authentication via PPPoE or PPP or 802.1x or via http
redirect? 

-Basavaraj

---

From: John Vollbrecht <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 16:18:19 -0500

Hi George -

Thanks for sending this.  I do have some clarifying questions below -- John

> mailing list... Still, I endure...

To be sure I understand - does this mean that an L2 connection is established
prior to authentication? Does each L2 connection uses a unique cell or sector of
a cell?

> also need to encrypt the airlink.

Is authentication after L2 connection ok or does the L2 connection need to be
authenticated?  Is encryption done at L2?  Is an authorization dialog needed to
support the link encryption?

> authentication, we need two different authentication transports for two

Are you talking here about link encryption or authentication dialog?  It would
seem Flash-OFDM is already a different transport technology, so how would PANA
play here?

> settings and behavior, whatever the underlying technology.

This sounds more like what you would like is a Client interface that works
accross all technologies - with a common authentication technique.  What role
would you see PANA playing? Would it do user authentication?  L2 Data
encryption?