Subject: [RADIR] Bootstrapping radir

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:27:42 +0100

I guess Leslie and I were hoping the R&A Directorate would
self-organize at least one meeting/telechat before or during
the Prague IETF. Any news on that? I believe Jason won't
be in Prague, but that's a technology detail...

    Brian

_______________________________________________
RADIR mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/radir

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:54:17 -0400

Thanks for the nudge, Brian.

radir folks, if there's some time everyone is free this week, I can  
set up a conference bridge.  I can make an hour free any time other  
than Thursday 14:00-16:00 EDT or Friday 07:00-12:00 EDT.  If that  
won't work (and it *is* the week before IETF and everyone is busy, so  
it might not) then we should try to have a f2f in Prague -- I arrive  
Tuesday morning.  I don't really imagine we will get a lot done  
before Prague, but at least we can take another step.

Brian, in terms of your question about who should be on the list, so  
far we have a few tepid "whatevers" and one "just the radir  
membership itself".  At this point I think anyone who is going to  
express an opinion has done so.  To my way of thinking, that means it  
should just be the radir membership itself.

Thomas pointed out that we ought to review the charter.  Seems like a  
good idea.  It's here: http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/radir.html .   
Perhaps we could discuss the charter if we manage to convene a call  
this week.  Then we could move on to trying to figure out how to  
translate that into some kind of actually useful work output...

--John

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:34:29 +0100

Thanks John.

I will remove myself from the list. I will stay registered
as an alternate list admin for the moment, but I'm highly
likely to withdraw from that around about 8 p.m. Prague
time Wednesday next week...

     Brian

On 2007-03-13 15:54, John G. Scudder wrote:
> radir folks, if there's some time everyone is free this week, I can set 
> up a conference bridge.  I can make an hour free any time other than 
> Thursday 14:00-16:00 EDT or Friday 07:00-12:00 EDT.  If that won't work 
> (and it *is* the week before IETF and everyone is busy, so it might not) 
> then we should try to have a f2f in Prague -- I arrive Tuesday morning.  
> I don't really imagine we will get a lot done before Prague, but at 
> least we can take another step.
> 
> Brian, in terms of your question about who should be on the list, so far 
> we have a few tepid "whatevers" and one "just the radir membership 
> itself".  At this point I think anyone who is going to express an 
> opinion has done so.  To my way of thinking, that means it should just 
> be the radir membership itself.
> 
> Perhaps we could discuss the charter if we manage to convene a call this 
> week.  Then we could move on to trying to figure out how to translate 
> that into some kind of actually useful work output...
> 
> --John
>

---

From: Jason Schiller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:41:58 -0500 (EST)

John,

I am not availabe the following times:
Thursday before 10ET
Thursday 2-4ET
Friday before 10ET
Friday 11-12:30ET

Any other time should be ok.

If we end up only doing a f2f at IETF I will not be there,  but if you set
up a bridge I can dial in.

__Jason

==========================================================================
Jason Schiller                                               (703)886.6648
Senior Internet Network Engineer                         fax:(703)886.0512
Public IP Global Network Engineering                       [email-masked]
UUNET / Verizon                         [email-masked]

The good news about having an email address that is twice as long is that
it increases traffic on the Internet.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, John G. Scudder wrote:

> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:54:17 -0400
> From: John G. Scudder <[email-masked]>
> To: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
> Cc: Leslie Daigle <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [RADIR] Bootstrapping radir
>

---

From: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:55:05 -0700

> before Prague, but at least we can take another step.

I could do a call any time today (Wednesday) or late morning (PDT) tomorrow
(Thursday). Heading to IETF on Thursday afternoon.

> should just be the radir membership itself.

I'm OK with that at this time.

> translate that into some kind of actually useful work output...

Good idea.

The lack of decisive motion by members of this list is probably more a
reflection of people being unsure what to do next - how many of you have
ever been on an IETF "directorate" before? I haven't. Are there any
guidelines for how such things tend to be structured?

One question I have is: what critera are to be used for selecting the
additional five members of this group? Some obvious candidates who have
been active in looking at this problem (Dave Meyer, Geoff Huston, Ted Seely,
Vijay Gill, etc.) come to mind.

	--Vince

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:30:33 -0400

Looks like the window for a phone call is either sometime today  
(nobody has indicated any conflicts), or 1-2 p.m. EDT tomorrow  
(Vince, does 10-11 a.m. PDT count as "late morning"?  Jason is  
unavailable for the subsequent two hours.)

Erik, Thomas, are you available by phone during either of those  
times?  Will you be at the IETF, and when?  (I'm there Tuesday-Friday.)

Also, if one of you has an existing conference bridge we can use,  
that would be great -- there was more latency than I expected to get  
mine set up.

--John

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:37:01 -0400

On Mar 14, 2007, at 11:55 AM, Vince Fuller wrote:
> reflection of people being unsure what to do next -

Yep.

> how many of you have

I haven't been on the routing directorate long, but AFAICT it  
basically gets used as a review and sounding board by the ADs, for  
specific drafts.  There are clearly more ambitious goals for the radir.

Brian, Leslie, others, do you have anything to add here?  The charter  
is all very well but let's face it, somewhat nebulous when it comes  
to organizing and deliverables.

> Vijay Gill, etc.) come to mind.

That's a good question and a good set of names.  There's something to  
be said for looking for some different perspectives too ("let's not  
always see the same hands!") but OTOH, one wants people who are  
engaged and know what's going on.

I think the answer depends in part on the answer to your "what to do  
next" question, so I for one would like to get that answered first.

--John

---

From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:38:05 -0400

P.S. for those who care about that sort of thing, I'm [email-masked].

--John

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From: Jason Schiller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:42:54 -0500 (EST)

I'm in a meeting till 4ET today, but can do any time after that.

___Jason

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007, John G. Scudder wrote:

> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:30:33 -0400
> To: [email-masked]

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From: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:58:17 -0700

> unavailable for the subsequent two hours.)

10-11am PDT tomorrow (Thursday) is doable for me.

	--Vince

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:01:08 -0400

> 10-11am PDT tomorrow (Thursday) is doable for me.

OK, well that's our target then.

Erik?  Thomas?

I'll send conference bridge info if we actually manage to converge.

--John

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:45:14 +0100

On 2007-03-14 18:37, John G. Scudder wrote:
> I haven't been on the routing directorate long, but AFAICT it basically 
> gets used as a review and sounding board by the ADs, for specific 
> drafts.  There are clearly more ambitious goals for the radir.
> 
> Brian, Leslie, others, do you have anything to add here?  The charter is 
> all very well but let's face it, somewhat nebulous when it comes to 
> organizing and deliverables.

Correct. I hope it defines goals and scope. But it doesn't seem appropriate
for the charter to dicate how often you meet and whether it's face2face
or telechat... It does talk about frequent reports though. Hopefully those
of us who are in Prague can talk some of this through.

      Brian
> That's a good question and a good set of names.  There's something to be 
> said for looking for some different perspectives too ("let's not always 
> see the same hands!") but OTOH, one wants people who are engaged and 
> know what's going on.
>

---

From: Leslie Daigle <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:32:24 -0400

> organizing and deliverables.

As Brian noted, the charter is indeed somewhat vague on those points,
but deliberately so.

I've always had it explained to me that directorates serve at the
pleasure of the AD that they are organized under.  This one is
a little odd in that it is organized under the IETF & IAB Chairs.
(We did debate making it an IAB ad hoc group for that reason, but
didn't; it's not like that would have provided more operational
crispness).  That does also mean, btw, that it is the organizing
AD that appoints membership.

The charter is our best attempt to lay out the goal of the directorate.
In terms of specific deliverables, I have a suggestion that is
consistent with that charter:  just pull together a list of known
activities in this area (within the IETF or elsewhere).  Might be
even cooler to have some collected summary of the activities
that happened within the IETF week (would help Jason, who's not
going to be there; would help the IAB & IESG because individuals
will probably be participating in individual parts of it and having
a tough time getting the big picture).

Leslie.

---

From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:08:42 -0700

John G. Scudder wrote:
> Looks like the window for a phone call is either sometime today (nobody 
> has indicated any conflicts), or 1-2 p.m. EDT tomorrow (Vince, does 
> 10-11 a.m. PDT count as "late morning"?  Jason is unavailable for the 
> subsequent two hours.)
> 
> Erik, Thomas, are you available by phone during either of those times?  
> Will you be at the IETF, and when?  (I'm there Tuesday-Friday.)

Sorry, I've been buried this week.

I'll arrive in Prague on Sunday afternoon and depart at lunch on Friday.

   Erik

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From: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 02:39:52 -0700

> I'll send conference bridge info if we actually manage to converge.

Did I miss something or did this not happen?

Any suggestions for where/when to meet this week at IETF? Ideally, we can
pick a time and arrange a dial-in for Jason (or invite Chris Morrow, his co-
worker, to stand-in for him).

	--Vince

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:47:44 +0100

> worker, to stand-in for him).

My guess is that for Jason, we need to afternoon-evening Prague time.

For me, possible (good) times would be:

Monday 15:20-17:20 (PRG) time slot.
Tuesday pretty much any time other than 18:50-19:50 time slot (and dinner)
Wednesday 15:10-16:10 slot 
Thursday 15:10-16:10 slot

What works for others?

Thomas

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:13:46 -0400

> Did I miss something or did this not happen?

We didn't have a quorum; it didn't happen.

> worker, to stand-in for him).

Some time Wednesday or later would be good for me.

--John

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From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 05:52:25 -0700

> Some time Wednesday or later would be good for me.

If we're down to afternoons Wednesday or later, then I can do a meeting 
any time after 2pm on Wednesday (until 6:30pm), or Thursday between 3pm 
and 7:30pm.

But I can also find some slots earlier in the week.

   Erik

---

From: Jason Schiller <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:28:09 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Thomas Narten wrote:

> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:47:44 +0100
> From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
> To: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]

If my math works correctly Prauge is +5 from the east coast... 

Tuesday and Wednesday are completely open
Thursday not between 2-3p EST (7-8p PRG)

Lets say any time from 7a EST (12noon PRG) to 7p EST (12 midnigth)

Just give me a bit of advanced warning to change my schedual.

__Jason

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From: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:51:27 -0700

> Just give me a bit of advanced warning to change my schedual.

Do we want to have our initial discussion prior to the Wednesday evening
ROAP plenary? If so, then I'd suggest Wednesday afternoon.

My first proposal would be 2:00PM on Wednesday (9:00AM EDT) if that doesn't
create a severe conflict for anyone. I could also live with the 3:10pm 
(10:10AM EDT) slot on Wednesday and simply skip the isis wg meeting that I
was hoping to attend.

If we don't care about meeting prior to the plenary, then the 3:10PM 
(10:10AM EDT) slot on Thursday works for me.

	--Vince

---

From: Jason Schiller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:28:29 -0500 (EST)

> (10:10AM EDT) slot on Thursday works for me.

I have penciled you guys in for both days.  

2:00PM on Wednesday (9:00AM EDT)
3:10PM on Thursday (10:10AM EDT)

Just let me know the dial info.

I think meeting before the ROAP plenary is probably a good idea for
planning purposes.  After might be useful to discuss what you heard while
it is still fresh.

__Jason

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From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:46:47 +0100

> 2:00PM on Wednesday (9:00AM EDT)

I think this time would be preferred (i.e., before the Thursday
sessions). Can everyone confirm they can attend? If so, I'll go about
getting a room with a phone.

Thomas

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From: Jason Schiller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:12:44 -0500 (EST)

> getting a room with a phone.

Confirmed  

__Jason

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From: Vince Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:09:44 -0700

> getting a room with a phone.

Works for me (not surprising, since I proposed the time...)

	--Vince

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From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:38:36 +0100

Yep.

--John

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From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:09:54 -0700

> getting a room with a phone.

OK

   Erik

---

From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:16 -0700

I didn't know if anybody else had asked so I just went and asked Marcia 
for a room with a phone for 2pm.

    Erik