Subject: [RADIR] Problem Statements and Survey of Efforts

From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 10:46:43 -0400

Dear Routing and Addressing Directorate:

On March 28th, the IAB and IESG held a joint teleconference.  Two 
tasks for the RADir came from the discussion.

1.  Problem Statements.  We need to collect the many different views 
of the Routing and Addressing problems.  It is clear that there is 
more than one problem, with many different constituencies.  It is 
best if each the perspectives is documented by one or more person 
that holds this view.  We are asking the Directorate to assemble the 
problem statements into one place (giving appropriate credit).  Do 
not try to capture consensus on the problem statements, but rather 
make the different views explicit.  The goal is to have a set of 
commonly agreed description of the various pieces of the problem, and 
thus a common set of terms to aid discussion.

2.  Survey Efforts.  RADir will identify the efforts and facilitate 
communication between them.  RADir is not responsible for tasking to 
any of these efforts, just for facilitating effective cross-effort 
communication. Please identify the existing efforts.  What is each 
doing?  Are they just starting or are they near completion?  Are 
there efforts that need specific attention for the IAB or the 
IESG?  How is RADir monitoring the effort?  Combined with the 
different views on the problem, how do existing effort fit these 
views?  What are the gaps?

We expect that members of the RADir will be involved in these efforts 
as individuals.  Therefore, we would not be surprised if RADir 
members participate as individuals in the writing of some problem 
statement(s).  It is important to us that the RADir activities are 
seen as neutral, so please explicitly separate your individual 
activities from the RADir activities.

The IAB has a meeting at the end of May.  I know it is an aggressive 
schedule, but it would be very helpful if initial versions of these 
documents are available for that meeting.  If the target is too 
aggressive, keep pushing so that the documents are available for as 
soon as possible.

Thanks for your active support,
    Russ & Olaf

_______________________________________________
RADIR mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/radir

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From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:54:50 -0400

[note: iesg/iab dropped for now]

Russ,

> thus a common set of terms to aid discussion.

Per discussions in Prague, we had already agreed that we would take a
stab at a problem statement. Our plan is to get some level of
agreement amongst ourselves, and then post it to ram list and invite
discussion. Exactly what would happen next sort of depends on the
feedback we get. But I think our hope is that we can get some sort of
agreement. I think we believe (or would like to believe) that there is
one main problem, with other "problems" perhaps being sub problems of
the overall one.  At least, it was not immediately clear to us that
there are really multilple different problems.

We also had a number of questions about how to go about
assembling/collected problems, how much support there needed to be
before inclusion was appropriate, etc.

Given the questions we had, we then thought it would actually be best
to just get you on the phone to talk to the directorate so we could
understand better what you want us to do and how we can best be
helpful.

> views?  What are the gaps?

Here, it was not immediately clear what the deliverable was. Are you
looking for IDs? Would web pages be sufficient?

And on efforts. Are we expected to summarize those efforts? And if so,
how and in how much detail?

Again, having a chat with you would probably be the quickest way to
get onto the same page.

> aggressive, keep pushing so that the documents are available for as 

Above you say "documents" (plural), which led to the previous
questions.

We've got our next call scheduled for 2PM EDT on Tuesday. Would you
be able to join us at the start of the call to discuss in more detail?
And if Tuesday doesn't work, can you suggest some other times?

Thomas

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From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:26:34 -0400

>there are really multilple different problems.

There is no agreement within the IESG or the IAB that there is a 
single problem.  A significant part of this message is to communicate 
this impression to the RADir.

>before inclusion was appropriate, etc.

I do not want to micro-manage this process.  My preference is for you 
to suggest the mail lists that will be used to gather input from the community.

>understand better what you want us to do and how we can best be

I'm pleased to arrange a teleconference, so long as Olaf is included as well.

>looking for IDs? Would web pages be sufficient?

Let's start with an email note.  the goal is not to make this bigger 
than necessary.

>how and in how much detail?

We suspect that we know about most of the efforts, but we want to 
make sure that is the case.  Let's assume that a single paragraph 
that provides the scope and focus of the effort is 
sufficient.  Include a URL to help people that were previously 
unaware of the effort.

>Again, having a chat with you would probably be the quickest way to

Again, I'm pleased to arrange a teleconference, so long as Olaf is 
included as well.

>Above you say "documents" (plural), which led to the previous

More than one deliverable is expected: multiple problem statements 
and one survey of the current efforts.

>And if Tuesday doesn't work, can you suggest some other times?

That may be too late for Olaf, but it works for me.

Russ

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From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 18:42:11 +0200

Hello Thomas,

After reading Russ' note. There is very little to add. But see inline.

> there are really multilple different problems.

In addition to there not being agreement on "one-single" problem  
statement it is felt that the RAdir is not the group that should be  
writing the 'problem statement' since this could easily drift into  
(the perception that) the RAdir determining the consensus. Obviously,  
the members in the RAdir are in an excelent position to come up with  
a problem statement but the intention is that that is separated from  
the RAdir work. This probably needs a bit of extra attention on the  
call.

> And if Tuesday doesn't work, can you suggest some other times?

If you do not mind a few kids in the background then I make myself  
available :-). Please send call details.

--Olaf

-----------------------------------------------------------
Olaf M. Kolkman
NLnet Labs
http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/