Subject: RE: [Raven] IP: China spies on its own people

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:36:18 -0000

> > "I talked with ... a human rights worker ... who documents atrocities
> from
> > death squads. His documents are interviews with witnesses. If government
> > troops were to capture these documents, they would find his witnesses
> and
> > kill them. So he encrypts them ..."
> > 
> >  - Phil Zimmerman, USENIX Summer '94
> 
> In this case regulated encryption probably means: They can get a licence!

"Dear Despot, I would like a license to operate regulated encryption within
your territory and laws, for the purposes of undermining your forces of
tyranny."

.... ?

Phil

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From: Ed Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:44:58 -0500

>your territory and laws, for the purposes of undermining your forces of

"What time would you like me to come down to the Ministry of Murder and 
Torture to pick up my permit?"

--
--------------------------
Ed Stone
[email-masked]
--------------------------

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 06:42:38 -0600 (CST)

> From: "chefren" <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:42:24 +0100
> Subject: RE: [Raven] IP: China spies on its own people
> 
> On 2 Feb 00, at 8:53, Ed Stone wrote:

[snip]

> > Why is so hard to understand the natural suspicions of governmental 
> > entities who tell us they will police themselves, investigate themselves, 
> > place requirements on themselves, and be judge and jury on themselves?
> 
> Why is it so hard to understand there is now known 
> alternative for democracy?

#1 Democracy is NOT a panacea.  Adolph Hitler was democratically elected.
The democratically elected parliament democratically voted to create one
history's most evil dictatorships.   The designers of the U.S. government
(for example) - a republic - knew better than to trust democracy fully.
The very concept of "checks and ballances" is to recognise that even
democratically selected officials can do bad things, and their power must
always be constrained.  

(Hopefully the political nature of this mailing list exempts it from
Godwin's Law)

#2 Of the world's 6 billion people, barely a billion live in a democratic
state.  Even if democracy were perfect, which it's not, most of the world
is not a democracy.  As often as not, the government is a band of
murderous robbers, blessed with the authority to call their pillaging law.
On the whole, I fear the world's governments and armies more than its
mafias and street gangs.  Recall that IETF decisions affect the Internet
everywhere.

#3 We cannot, now or ever, control how our standards are used.  We can't
make a warlord in Rwanda turn over his audit logs to the IETF or UN or
anyone else, can we?  We can't expect the bad guys to comply with our
policies  or build their equipment to our specs.  We can only equip
everyone (good and bad alike, alas) with the means to protect themselves.

#4 "Impossible" is always better than "forbidden".