Subject: Re: [rmcat] Minutes & draft updates

From: "Eggert, Lars" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:04:12 +0000

Hi,

On Nov 23, 2012, at 10:08, Mirja Kühlewind <[email-masked]> wrote:
> @Draft authors: Please remember that we have a tight milestone plan. We are 
> supposed to adopt the first wg docs on requirement and evaluation criteria in 
> December. As there has been a lot discussion during the meeting, I don't 
> think we are able to adopt the current versions. So please update the drafts 
> as soon as possible!

I'd like to second this. It's been very quiet on the list since the Atlanta meeting.

Lars

---

From: Varun Singh <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:32:17 +0200

Hi,

I was away on vacation for the last 4 weeks, but an updated version of the
evaluation draft will be available soon.

However, at the Atlanta meeting there was discussion around existing
ITU quality models which we can use as Quality Metrics (other than PSNR).
Someone volunteered to send the related documents or pointers to them,
but I haven't received them.

Thanks,
-Varun

-- 
http://www.netlab.tkk.fi/~varun/

---

From: "Eggert, Lars" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:42:40 +0000

Hi,

> evaluation draft will be available soon.

thanks!

> but I haven't received them.

In http://eggert.org/papers/2007-infocom-dccp.pdf, we used the E-Model to generate R scores. Is this what was referred to? (Apologies if you've already looked at that.)

Lars

---

From: Varun Singh <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:07:22 +0200

Hi,

> In http://eggert.org/papers/2007-infocom-dccp.pdf, we used the E-Model to generate R scores. Is this what was referred to? (Apologies if you've already looked at that.)

AFAIK, the E-model is for audio.

However, the comment at the meeting was in the context of video. Per
the minutes
(http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/rmcat/minutes?item=minutes-85-rmcat.html):
          Christian: There's a lot known about this at the ITU, they have some
          standard models

So if there are ITU standard models for video then I'd like to look at them
before I submit a new version of the document.

-Varun

---

From: Piers O'Hanlon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:41:16 +0000

Hi Varun,

For video there's all the stuff from the Video Quality Experts Group (VQEG):
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/vqeg/vqeg-home.aspx
Which have led to a number of ITU docs: ITU-T P.920, ITU-T Rec. J.247, J248, ITU-R Rec. BT.1866/7, J340. The problem is that most of this work seems to be based on proprietary systems, which means it gets expensive to run tests. There are a few systems out there (which provide for more than things like PSNR or SSIM) that are available for download including VQM from ITS:
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/resources/video-quality-research/guides-and-tutorials/description-of-vqm-tools.aspx
and MOVIE (and others) from Utexas:
http://live.ece.utexas.edu/research/Quality/index.htm

For more info see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEVQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_quality

Piers