Subject: [rrg] A Challenge for Researchers by John Day

From: "Scott Weeks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:08:16 -0700

I hope this is acceptable to post here...  

I just finished the book "Patterns in Network Architecture: A Return to Fundamentals" by John Day and was going through the 'Documents and Publications' section of pouzinsociety.org where I found this:  "A Challenge for Researchers" - http://02d7097.netsolhost.com/images/A_Challenge_for_Researchers.pdf

Knowing there is a researcher or two on this list ;-) I wanted to forward it onto the group.  To me (an operator interested in the architecture of the internet and its future, not a researcher) it's a very interesting idea!

scott

-------------------
--------------------
--------------------

---

From: William Herrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:09:12 -0400

> Knowing there is a researcher or two on this list ;-) I wanted to forward it onto the group.  To me (an operator interested in the architecture of the internet and its future, not a researcher) it'…

Hi Scott,

This came around back in April and I asked:

http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg04922.html

If anyone offers an answer, I'll take another look. Until then, John
has a vaguely interesting idea but we have no shortage of vaguely
interesting ideas here and it's not our role to show whether or why an
incomplete concept can't be completed.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

-- 
William D. Herrin ................ [email-masked]  [email-masked]
3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:53:57 +0200

In the meantime look for the pna-discuss group in Google Groups.

---

From: William Herrin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:59:51 -0400

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Eddy, Wesley M.
(GRC-MS00)[Verizon]<[email-masked]> wrote:
> Day's PNA is more than "vaguely interesting" as it (correctly)
> factors networking functions into the common primitives that
> recurse throughout all of the existing stacks in use, and
> differences between layers as policy rather than protocol.  It
> further develops naming & resolution of processes within a
> Distributed IPC Facility (DIF) / layer, and describes just what
> you asked for in intimate detail.

Wes,

At the risk of revealing myself to be a cheap bastard, who will refund
my fifty bucks if it doesn't? Certainly nothing I found on
pouzinsociety.org hinted at the answer to my question though I'd be
happy to have you point out what I missed.

Seriously: if you think the idea has merit, lets dive in to the
nitty-gritty of how it might work. That is, after all, what this
research group is for.

Convince me there's more here than a half-formed abstraction and I
-will- go buy the book. If not, I'll wait for the movie.

Regards,
Bill

---

From: Lixia Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:05:36 -0700

On Jul 24, 2009, at 2:09 PM, William Herrin wrote:

>> I just finished the book "Patterns in Network Architecture: A  
>> Return to Fundamentals" by John Day and was going through the  
>> 'Documents and Publications' section of pouzinsociety.org where I  
>> found this:  "A Challenge for Researchers" - http://02d7097.netsolhost.com/images/A_Challenge_for_Researchers.pdf
>>
>> Knowing there is a researcher or two on this list ;-) I wanted to  
>> forward it onto the group.  To me (an operator interested in the  
>> architecture of the internet and its future, not a researcher) it's  
>> a very interesting idea!
>
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> interesting ideas here

I would agree with that statement :-)

> and it's not our role to show whether or why an

I just replied Steve privately suggesting that the architecture list  
may be a good place to send this pointer to.
My reason: the starting point and the basic reasoning of that short  
(and very interesting) article is not IPC, but a basic understanding  
of how to do system research (great subject for a broader discussion).

Lixia

---

From: "Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[Verizon]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:25:42 -0500

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
>William Herrin
>Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 5:09 PM
>
>> I just finished the book "Patterns in Network Architecture: A Return
>to Fundamentals" by John Day and was going through the 'Documents and
>Publications' section of pouzinsociety.org where I found this:  "A
>Challenge for Researchers" -
>http://02d7097.netsolhost.com/images/A_Challenge_for_Researchers.pdf
>>
>architecture of the internet and its future, not a researcher) it's a
>very interesting idea!
>
>
>Hi Scott,
>

I read the book several months ago, and immediately convinced
several colleagues to as well.  Most have found it very
enlightening as it explains fundamentally what networking is,
and only holds IP or CLNP up as examples compared to that.

If you read the book, your question is clearly answered both in
text and in the diagrams that show nesting and layering of DIFs,
however, I doubt anyone is going to take the time to transcribe
the book into email for your benefit ...

---------------------------
Wes Eddy
Network & Systems Architect
Verizon FNS / NASA GRC
Office: (216) 433-6682
---------------------------