Subject: Re: [Sip] Major Open Issue #113: Overlapping Transactions

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:28:24 EST

In a message dated 12/6/01 4:18:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> I vote for no Overlapping for INVITEs. SIP is an IP protocol. People
>  usually input digits then hit the send button. If the user hit the send
>  button too early, it is a incomplete address call. It is the same
>  approach as the wireless network. For 3G release 5 using SIP, I cannot
>  image supporting overlapping, which will tie up the air resources during
>  call setup.
>   
In the cellular world, true, you had to hit the send only after entering the 
whole number. In the PSTN, not true, the network got each digit separate.

Some would argue that the next generation of phones (IP) should work just 
like the old, "black" rotary dial phones. That argument hampered some of the 
ISDN standardization and certainly hampered the transition from rotary dial 
to DTMF in the US.

I believe it would be appropriate for the IP environment (SIP devices) to 
require that the user enter the whole number and then hit "send". We've all 
learned to deal with that dialing procedure for celluler. Certainly, 3G 
should not support dialing.

Whether this eliminates the need for overlapping INVITEs - I don't know. 
There may be other uses, such as the description in 
draft-ietf-sip-overlap-01, which is a different issue.

Mike Pierce

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From: "Mart Nurmet" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:47:26 -0600

Mike:

Overlap dialing was appropriate for dial pulse signaling to hold the trunk.
This was done away with once MF (Multi Frequency) signaling to be used [it
was not allowed then].  Then the end office collected all the digits and
determined the end of signaling by timing the digit reception or receipt of
the # sign.  Then the end office, forwarded the full string.  Overlap
dialing could possibly be still found on dial pulse trunks but it would hard
to find that anywhere else. In the SIP world that is a fuction that should
not be needed.

- Mart

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From: "Eric Burger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:45:36 -0500

But doesn't this argue that we don't need to emulate overlap dialing?  Like
you said, it was a problem in the transition to DTMF (30 years ago) and ISDN
(10 years ago).  Wouldn't it be reasonable to say it's not a problem
anymore?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:28 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Sip] Major Open Issue #113: Overlapping Transactions

Mike Pierce

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From: "Paul Long" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:14:48 -0600

Eric,

I believe that overlapped sending is expected on desktop telephones. Sure,
people can adapt, but why? At the very least, this will be a quality of
implementation issue, and products that support it will be preferred over
products that do not. The end user does not care or most often even know
what technology is being used, e.g., "Oh, this is a VoIP phone, so I better
press Send."

Paul Long
ipDialog, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Eric
Burger
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:46 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sip] Major Open Issue #113: Overlapping Transactions

-----Original Message-----

Mike Pierce