Subject: [Sip] Certs draft movement?

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0500

Once upon a time, a friend of mine had a dog that we thought liked to  
chase squirrels. When a squirrel would run up a tree, the dog would  
run to the tree and start barking. After a while, we noticed that the  
dog was just barking at trees whether they had a squirrel in them or  
not, and we realized that the dog wasn't all that worried about  
squirrels anymore. He'd gotten so used to barking at trees that he  
thought this was now his goal.

So in putting the draft agenda together for Montreal, I noticed the  
new certs draft, draft-ietf-sip-certs-00.txt, and I thought about how  
I felt about the topic. It's definitely something I once chased  
after, like that dog chasing a squirrel. But Now I'm wondering where  
the "certs squirrel" went.

Do we really believe in the certs draft, or are we just barking at a  
tree out of habit?

--
Dean

_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip
Use [email-masked] for new developments on the application of sip

---

From: Ben Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:00:22 -0500

I, for one, think there is a squirrel in that particular tree.

On Jun 15, 2006, at 4:50 PM, Dean Willis wrote:

>
> Once upon a time, a friend of mine had a dog that we thought liked  
> to chase squirrels. When a squirrel would run up a tree, the dog  
> would run to the tree and start barking. After a while, we noticed  
> that the dog was just barking at trees whether they had a squirrel  
> in them or not, and we realized that the dog wasn't all that  
> worried about squirrels anymore. He'd gotten so used to barking at  
> trees that he thought this was now his goal.
>
> new certs draft, draft-ietf-sip-certs-00.txt, and I thought about  
> how I felt about the topic. It's definitely something I once chased  
> after, like that dog chasing a squirrel. But Now I'm wondering  
> where the "certs squirrel" went.
>
> Do we really believe in the certs draft, or are we just barking at  
> a tree out of habit?
>
> --
> Dean
>
>
>

---

From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:45:43 -0500

I still believe what's in this draft is a good, and important, idea  
and am contributing to finish the work.

RjS

(and I've got plenty of other things to do than bark at a draft just  
for the, um, joy of barking)

---

From: Hannes Tschofenig <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:57:11 +0200

Hi Dean,

at the last IETF I volunteered to contribute to this draft.

I think it is a very important piece in the (SIP) security puzzle.

Ciao
Hannes

Dean Willis wrote:
> chase squirrels. When a squirrel would run up a tree, the dog would  run 
> to the tree and start barking. After a while, we noticed that the  dog 
> was just barking at trees whether they had a squirrel in them or  not, 
> and we realized that the dog wasn't all that worried about  squirrels 
> anymore. He'd gotten so used to barking at trees that he  thought this 
> was now his goal.
> 
> So in putting the draft agenda together for Montreal, I noticed the  new 
> certs draft, draft-ietf-sip-certs-00.txt, and I thought about how  I 
> felt about the topic. It's definitely something I once chased  after, 
> like that dog chasing a squirrel. But Now I'm wondering where  the 
> "certs squirrel" went.
>

---

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:33:39 -0700

We continue to define security mechanism based on certificates (the  
new mikey RSA-R draft being the latest example to soon be approved as  
an RFC). Unless we have a serious proposal of how to solve the  
problems we are using user certificates for in the many RFCs that  
require them, I think we should keep moving forward with this. I do  
have concerns about if any of this will deploy but certs is part of  
the puzzle that can help make it deployable.

Cullen <Woof>

PS. Dogs do worse things to trees than bark at them :-)

---

From: Michael Thomas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:56:34 -0700

> the puzzle that can help make it deployable.

What I see: lots and lots and lots of effort on things that first posit: 
IFF there were
widespread user certificate deployment *then* this work should be useful.

In reality, we so next to no deployment of user certificates, and lots 
of standards
work that has never been debugged even though it's getting to PS.

Doesn't this make anybody else want to step back and do some root cause
analysis? Or do people just have lots of time on their hands to chug out 
standards
that have proven time and again that there's no route to deployment?

       Mike, and domain based certs are barely better

>> in them or not, and we realized that the dog wasn't all that  worried 
>> about squirrels anymore. He'd gotten so used to barking at  trees 
>> that he thought this was now his goal.
>>