Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: Comments on draft-johnston-sipping-p2p-ipcom-01.txt

From: Philip Matthews <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:53:24 -0500

[email-masked] wrote:
> Nobody will accept a P2P voice mail service if they know the storage is on
> someone else's PC. 

I think someone would if will *if*:
- the voicemail message is encrypted (so only the intended recipient can access), and
- the storage is on the PC of someone they feel they can trust.

When handled this way, voicemail is very similar to encrypted e-mail,
which get stored on a number of machines as it get transfered from sender to receiver.

- Philip

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip
Use [email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

---

From: "Seamus Gilchrist" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:06:20 -0500

The problem would seem to be making sure that the resource (the PC) or
resources in the case that the voice mail is partially stored on a number of
machines, is available when you want to retrieve the voice mail from it. 
And since it is not really feasible to do this, P2P voice mail service might
need to be hosted (and possibly replicated) on some number of reliable PCs.

Seamus

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Philip Matthews
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:53 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: 'sipping'
Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: Comments on
draft-johnston-sipping-p2p-ipcom-01.txt

I think someone would if will *if*:
- the voicemail message is encrypted (so only the intended recipient can
access), and
- the storage is on the PC of someone they feel they can trust.

When handled this way, voicemail is very similar to encrypted e-mail,
which get stored on a number of machines as it get transfered from sender to
receiver.

- Philip

---

From: "Brian Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:17:24 -0500

I think this part of the discussion has gotten off track.

In a P2P SIP system, the voicemail "server"; the thing that answers the
phone, plays a greeting and lets you record a message, is a "peer", that is,
it's a user agent server (UAS). 

The P2P problem is not answering phones, playing messages and recording
messages, it's how does the call get to the endpoint that does that.

We can, if you want, start a thread on how you might make a completely
distributed voicemail system, but that is a completely different problem
from a P2P SIP system.

Can we now return to our regularly scheduled program?

Brian

> Of Seamus Gilchrist
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:06 AM
> To: 'Philip Matthews'; [email-masked]
> Cc: 'sipping'
> Subject: RE: [Sipping] RE: Comments on draft-johnston-sipping-p2p-ipcom-
> 01.txt
>

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:08:42 -0600

On Mar 30, 2005, at 5:04 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

>> I think this is not true.
>
> It is true.
>
> someone else's PC. Storing on your own PC is however a better choice, 
> as is
> done here:
>
> http://www.hotrecorder.com/
>
>
Actually, I just signed up for Skype In, which gives me both a PSTN 
phone number and voice mail for euros 30 per year. I have absolutely no 
idea where the voice mail is stored, except it's probably NOT on my PC, 
since I can receive voice mail when my PC is turned off. It might be 
sliced up and stored all over the set of Skype clients. It might be on 
a server in London. I just don't know. But as long as it works, I'm not 
all that worried about it. Curious, vaguely, but I hadn't even stopped 
to wonder until I saw this email.

Users are sheep. If it works, we're happy. If it doesn't, we're kebab.

Baah!

--
dean

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:22:00 -0600

> Users are sheep. If it works, we're happy. If it doesn't, we're kebab.

Corporate customers will care however (though it's amazing how much bad
stuff they buy, that we need not mention here).

Even consumers may start to care where their voice mail is stored once there
is a story in the media.

Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Willis [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:09 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: 'Xiaotao Wu'; 'Johnston, Alan'; 'Arjun Roychowdhury'; 'sipping'; 'Brian
Rosen'

Baah!

--
dean

---

From: Arjun Roychowdhury <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:55:35 -0500

I agree - depending on what market this is targetting, this may well
be an issue just waiting for the "media" to uncover. Though I do
believe the vast majority of p2p users are home users (where this is
less of a concern).

But I have a fundamental doubt about this voicemail stuff as
described. Lets for a second assume that the voicemail  of A is indeed
stored in someone else's PC (B).  This is very cool and dandy when
someone is leaving a voice mail for A even though A's PC is off.
(Background drumroll on how p2p saves the day)

So now, A comes online and wants to check his voicemail. However, his
trusty voice mail pal, B is turned off then. So what happens ? A
cannot access his voice mails till B wakes up at 2pm the next day as a
result of a serious hangover in the party the night before ?

If voicemails are to be stored in a p2p fashion, then it also needs to
be accounted for the fact that the owner of the VM would like to
listen to his messages when he chooses. This to me means, the VM
'server's must be always on, and some sort of special nodes in the
network that can be guaranteed to be 'available' by 'someone' (dare I
say a centralized caretaker of a p2p network) . Otherwise,
theoretically, the VM must be distributed to an infinite set of 'peer
UAs' to ensure that someone is always up when A wants to grab his VM
which is unacceptable.

regds
arjun

-- 
Arjun Roychowdhury

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:32:31 -0500

Arjun,

Arjun,

>I agree - depending on what market this is targeting, 
>this may well be an issue just waiting for the "media" to uncover.

We seem to have good agreement on the requirements for voice mail applying
the Client Server SIP model to P2P SIP. It occurs to me however that the CS
SIP voice mail model need not necessarily apply to P2P SIP since the
customer expectation is different.

Since there is a clear presence display, users may not have the expectation
to leave voice mail when there is no presence on line displayed. This is not
a complete copout, but may mitigate the need to some degree to provide
"classic" voice mail in the first place.

>> Users are sheep. If it works, we're happy. If it doesn't, we're kebab.

Dean's sheep may have a different expectation if they (don't) see presence
:-)

Thanks, Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: Arjun Roychowdhury [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:56 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: sipping
Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: Comments on

regds
arjun

-- 
Arjun Roychowdhury