Subject: [therightkey] Transparent time -> Re: Draft charter for a Transparency Working Group

From: Paul Lambert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:09:39 -0800

>>
>> 1) Basic logs and the ability to have assurance on time and order
>
>Not sure how you do time without some notion of trust. But order is a
>basic property of the log, yes.

Order places bounds on observed events in a time sequence.  Log based
 ¹time' would have a different model of usage  and would validate the
order events rather than deliver a continuos clock time. For a broader
usage of time in the logs you have a good point about the Œtrust¹
particularly for time.  Different entries would have different qualities
of time accuracy and veracity that could be quantified.

Paul

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From: Tony Finch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:24:09 +0000

> of time accuracy and veracity that could be quantified.

Tangentially related (since it does not involve Merkle logs) I have a
background project on secure time, based on getting the time from multiple
different sources using tlsdate and requiring that a quorum of them agree.
I have written a few articles on the subject and some rough proof-of-
concept code (not even polished enough to be called a prototype).

http://fanf.livejournal.com/128861.html
http://fanf.livejournal.com/129371.html
http://fanf.livejournal.com/129569.html
https://git.csx.cam.ac.uk/x/ucs/u/fanf2/temporum.git

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <[email-masked]>  http://dotat.at/
Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first.
Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor at first.

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From: Ben Laurie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:33:01 +0000

> different sources using tlsdate and requiring that a quorum of them agree.

You know we're in the process of breaking tlsdate by removing time
from the TLS handshake? Of course, you can get it from the HTTP
headers instead...

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From: Tony Finch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:49:38 +0000

> from the TLS handshake? Of course, you can get it from the HTTP

Yes. Yuck. This is what you get when you use protocols parasitically :-)
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has thoughts on how to
do this properly rather than as a hack.

Tony.