Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt
From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:06:57 -0700

Sean -

>I'll be glad to initiate/edit a separate document - it sounds like at
>least one other person in the interest group is willing to put in some
>time/effort on generating it.  

Great.

>I'm unfamiliar with the initiation
>process - do we propose it to IRSG first and then write a first draft,
>or do we write a draft and then submit if for consideration?

No, the research group (RG) itself decides what documents are in
scope - or, that is my understanding.  So you collectively get to
write a draft, and submit it to the RG for feedback.  (Unless there
is significant negative feedback in the next few days from tmrg
members to the idea of including this topic in the RG, which I
certainly don't expect.)

Many thanks for the contribution.

- Sally

From: [email-masked] (Moore, Sean (Sean))
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:37:02 -0400
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Thanks Sally.

I'll be glad to initiate/edit a separate document - it sounds like at
least one other person in the interest group is willing to put in some
time/effort on generating it.  I'm unfamiliar with the initiation
process - do we propose it to IRSG first and then write a first draft,
or do we write a draft and then submit if for consideration?

- Sean 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:47 PM
To: Moore, Sean (Sean)
Cc: [email-masked]; Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
Subject: Re: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt 

Sean -

...
>I would like this interest group to consider expanding the implied 
>scope of applicability of this draft.

I have added the following sentence to the abstract:

 "This includes metrics for the evaluation of new transport  protocols,
of proposed modifications to TCP, of application-level  congestion
control, and of Active Queue Management (AQM) mechanisms  in the
router." 

The draft was always intended to apply to a wide range of congestion
control mechanisms, including congestion control for transport protocols
for unreliable transfer (e.g., DCCP,
"http://www.icir.org/kohler/dccp/").

However, my first inclination is that extending this document to metrics
for admission control would be stretching ourselves a little thin.  One
possibility would be for you or someone else to volunteer to edit a
separate tmrg document on "Metrics for the Evaluation of Admission
Control Systems", that would include false positives and false
negatives, coexistence with non-admission-controlled traffic, and the
like, and that could also refer to the current document.
So the question would be not whether it is in scope, but whether it
should belong in a separate document.  I would vote "yes".

...
>Another area of possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for 
>TCP-based technologies that provide a constant throughput/goodput by 
>opening multiple TCP connections.  Some examples include the "elastic 
>TCP" technology developed by some researchers at Boston University and 
>similar technology used to enforce rate control for streaming video 
>over wireless (recently reported by Zakhor et al. in IEEE Wireless 
>Communications).  Both of these technologies achieve nearly constant 
>goodput by using a control system that opens and closes multiple TCP 
>connections in response to feedback consisting of various performance 
>measurements.  Appropriate metrics for this transport technology would 
>be measures of response times and variation from the target goodput.

Yes, I assume that these would be among the proposed congestion control
mechanisms covered by the current document.  Per-packet delay and
application-specific throughput requirements are both listed in the
current document.

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Dah Ming Chiu)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:59:43 +0800
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt
References: <[email-masked]>
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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I am glad that Sean raised these points.

In particular, we have been doing research on this very topic of how =
congestion
controlled TCP flows should co-exist with admission-controlled UDP =
flows; and why
it is better to let UDP-flows do admission control rather than try to =
force them to
be TCP-friendly on a per-flow basis. It turns out that it is not that =
obvious how to define
"false positive" and "false negative" for admission control. We argue =
that there is a form
of admission control that is "TCP-friendly" which should be considered. =
This would give
you an exact definition for what is false-positive and false-negative.  =
I have posted a
recently finished paper - "A Case for TCP-friendly Admission Control" at =
my web page:
    http://personal.ie.cuhk.edu.hk/~dmchiu/publications.html
At the same web page, there is also an earlier conference paper on some =
related work.

I vote that this is in scope for this working group.  I would be happy =
to help edit
(or work with others on) a separate document on metrics for admission =
control,
and co-existence of TCP and UDP traffic.

Regards
Dah Ming Chiu
Chinese University of Hong Kong
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Moore, Sean (Sean)=20
  To: [email-masked]=20
  Cc: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)=20
  Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:48 AM
  Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt

  I would like this interest group to consider expanding the implied =
scope of applicability of this draft.

  This draft appears to be focused on congestion control evaluation =
metrics for TCP and TCP-friendly protocols.  That's OK, but with the =
industry and market push for convergence on the IP infrastructure, =
restricting the scope to TCP may be short-sighted because IP networks =
will simultaneously transport TCP-mediated and UDP-based flows, and =
operators will be expected to manage performance (and by implication, =
congestion) in the converged network.  Should we consider congestion =
control evaluation metrics for UDP-based flows supporting inelastic =
applications (voice, videoconferencing, etc.)?  Yes, UDP does not have a =
congestion control mechanism, but in practice one should/must perform =
congestion control in some way.  Congestion control may be achieved =
indirectly using admission control.  Congestion is controlled by =
avoidance, i.e., a new flow will not be admitted if it will result in =
congestion.

  So let's assume that admission control is the congestion control =
mechanism for UDP-based flows supporting inelastic applications.  Some =
possible metrics to evaluate admission control mechanisms include "false =
positives" and "false negatives".  A false positive occurs when a flow =
is admitted but should not have been admitted (because after it was =
admitted, congestion occurred).  A false negative occurs when a flow is =
not admitted but should have been admitted (because if it were admitted, =
congestion would not have occurred).

  Another scope expansion is to consider metrics that evaluate =
congestion control mechanisms with respect to their ability to =
peacefully co-exist in converged (mixed TCP/UDP) environments.  A =
possible co-existence metric for evaluating the congestion control =
(admission control) mechanisms for the UDP flows is some measure of the =
mechanism's ability to enforce a policy on the share of the (bottleneck) =
capacity used by the UDP (or non-TCP-friendly) flows.  Conversely, =
without prioritization mechanisms in place such as those used in =
low-latency queueing, the native TCP congestion control/avoidance =
mechanisms are likely to cause unacceptably high levels of packet loss =
in the UDP flows; so again, some co-existence metrics for TCP may be =
appropriate.

  Another area of possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for =
TCP-based technologies that provide a constant throughput/goodput by =
opening multiple TCP connections.  Some examples include the "elastic =
TCP" technology developed by some researchers at Boston University and =
similar technology used to enforce rate control for streaming video over =
wireless (recently reported by Zakhor et al. in IEEE Wireless =
Communications).  Both of these technologies achieve nearly constant =
goodput by using a control system that opens and closes multiple TCP =
connections in response to feedback consisting of various performance =
measurements.  Appropriate metrics for this transport technology would =
be measures of response times and variation from the target goodput.

  Do we consider this to be in scope?  I vote "yes".

  - Sean

    Sean Moore, Ph.D. | Domain Architect - Enterprise Communications | =
Avaya | 150 Apollo Drive | Chelmsford, MA |01824 |=20
    Voice: 978-677-5232 Cell: 603-321-3424  FAX: 978-677-5457 | =
[email-masked]

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am glad that Sean raised these=20
points.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In particular, we have been doing =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>research on this very topic&nbsp;of how=20
congestion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>controlled TCP flows&nbsp;should =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>co-exist with admission-controlled UDP flows; and=20
why</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it is better to let UDP-flows do =
admission control=20
rather than try to force them to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>be TCP-friendly on a per-flow basis. =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>It turns out that it is not that obvious how to=20
define</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"false positive" and "false =
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>negative" for admission control. We argue that there is a=20
form</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of admission control that is =
"TCP-friendly" which=20
should be considered</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>. This would=20
give</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you an exact definition for what is =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>false-positive and false-negative.&nbsp; I have =
posted=20
a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>recently finished paper - </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>"A Case for TCP-friendly Admission Control" at my web =
page</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://personal.ie.cuhk.edu.hk/~dmchiu/publications.html">http://=
personal.ie.cuhk.edu.hk/~dmchiu/publications.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At the same web page, there is also an =
earlier=20
conference paper on some related work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I vote that this is in scope for this =
working=20
group.&nbsp; I would be happy to help edit</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(or work with others on)&nbsp;a =
separate document=20
on metrics </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for admission </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>control,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and co-existence of TCP and UDP=20
traffic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dah Ming Chiu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chinese University of Hong =
Kong</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Moore, =
Sean=20
  (Sean)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=[email-masked]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
ey.EDU</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Romascanu, Dan (Dan)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 30, 2005 =
1:48=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Tmrg-interest] =
Comment on=20
  draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I =
would like this=20
  interest group to consider expanding the implied scope of =
applicability of=20
  this draft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This =
draft appears=20
  to be focused on congestion control evaluation metrics for TCP and=20
  TCP-friendly protocols.&nbsp; That's OK, but with the industry and =
market push=20
  for convergence on the IP infrastructure, restricting the scope to TCP =
may be=20
  short-sighted because IP networks will simultaneously transport =
TCP-mediated=20
  and UDP-based flows, and operators will be expected to manage =
performance (and=20
  by implication, congestion) in the converged network.&nbsp; Should we =
consider=20
  congestion control evaluation metrics for UDP-based flows supporting =
inelastic=20
  applications (voice, videoconferencing, etc.)?&nbsp; Yes, UDP does not =
have a=20
  congestion control mechanism, but in practice one =
should/must&nbsp;perform=20
  congestion control in some way.&nbsp; Congestion control may be =
achieved=20
  indirectly using admission control.&nbsp; Congestion =
is&nbsp;controlled by=20
  avoidance, i.e., a new flow will not be admitted if it will result in=20
  congestion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So =
let's assume=20
  that admission control is the congestion control mechanism for =
UDP-based flows=20
  supporting inelastic applications.&nbsp; Some possible metrics to =
evaluate=20
  admission control mechanisms include "false positives" and "false=20
  negatives".&nbsp; A false positive occurs when a flow is admitted but =
should=20
  not have been admitted (because after it was admitted, congestion=20
  occurred).&nbsp; A false negative occurs when a flow is not admitted =
but=20
  should have been admitted (because if it were admitted, congestion =
would not=20
  have occurred).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Another scope=20
  expansion is to consider metrics that evaluate congestion control =
mechanisms=20
  with respect to their ability to peacefully co-exist in converged =
(mixed=20
  TCP/UDP) environments.&nbsp;&nbsp;A possible co-existence metric for=20
  evaluating the congestion control (admission control) mechanisms for =
the UDP=20
  flows is some measure of the mechanism's ability to enforce a policy =
on the=20
  share of the (bottleneck) capacity used by the UDP (or =
non-TCP-friendly)=20
  flows.&nbsp; Conversely, without prioritization mechanisms in place =
such as=20
  those used in low-latency queueing, the native TCP congestion=20
  control/avoidance mechanisms are likely to cause unacceptably high =
levels of=20
  packet loss in the UDP flows; so again, some co-existence metrics for =
TCP may=20
  be appropriate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Another area of=20
  possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for TCP-based =
technologies=20
  that&nbsp;provide a constant throughput/goodput by opening multiple =
TCP=20
  connections.&nbsp; Some examples include the "elastic TCP" technology=20
  developed by some researchers at Boston University&nbsp;and similar =
technology=20
  used to enforce rate control for streaming video over wireless =
(recently=20
  reported&nbsp;by Zakhor et al.&nbsp;in&nbsp;IEEE Wireless=20
  Communications).&nbsp; Both of these=20
  technologies&nbsp;achieve&nbsp;nearly&nbsp;constant goodput by using a =
control=20
  system that&nbsp;opens and closes multiple TCP connections&nbsp;in =
response=20
  to&nbsp;feedback consisting of various performance measurements.&nbsp; =

  Appropriate metrics for this transport technology would be measures=20
  of&nbsp;response times and variation from the target=20
  goodput.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do =
we consider=20
  this to be in scope?&nbsp; I vote "yes".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-=20
  Sean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV align=3Dleft><IMG height=3D30=20
    src=3D"outbind://38/New%20Avaya%20Signature_files/avaya.gif"=20
    width=3D108><BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Century Gothic" color=3D#999999 =
size=3D2>Sean=20
    Moore, Ph.D.<FONT color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;|&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
    color=3D#808080>Domain Architect</FONT>&nbsp;-&nbsp;Enterprise=20
    Communications<FONT color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;| </FONT>Avaya<FONT =
color=3D#ff0033>=20
    |&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#000000>150 Apollo Drive</FONT>&nbsp;| =
</FONT>Chelmsford,=20
    MA&nbsp;|01824<FONT color=3D#ff0033> | </FONT><BR>Voice: =
978-677-5232=20
    Cell:&nbsp;603-321-3424&nbsp; FAX: 978-677-5457<FONT =
color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;|=20
    </FONT>[email-masked]</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] the most recent version of draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

I have put a copy of draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-01a.txt,
under construction for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-01, on the tmrg
web site.  It contains the modifications that I made today.
People giving feedback, or suggesting references to add,
might want to refer to this as the most version (even
though it won't be submitted to the internet-drafts editor
until it has stabilized a bit).

http://www.icir.org/tmrg/draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-01a.txt

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:46:44 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Sean -

...
>I would like this interest group to consider expanding the implied scope
>of applicability of this draft.

I have added the following sentence to the abstract:

 "This includes metrics for the evaluation of new transport
 protocols, of proposed modifications to TCP, of application-level
 congestion control, and of Active Queue Management (AQM) mechanisms
 in the router." 

The draft was always intended to apply to a wide range of congestion
control mechanisms, including congestion control for transport
protocols for unreliable transfer (e.g., DCCP,
"http://www.icir.org/kohler/dccp/").

However, my first inclination is that extending this document to
metrics for admission control would be stretching ourselves a little
thin.  One possibility would be for you or someone else to volunteer
to edit a separate tmrg document on "Metrics for the Evaluation of
Admission Control Systems", that would include false positives and
false negatives, coexistence with non-admission-controlled traffic,
and the like, and that could also refer to the current document.
So the question would be not whether it is in scope, but whether
it should belong in a separate document.  I would vote "yes".

...
>Another area of possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for
>TCP-based technologies that provide a constant throughput/goodput by
>opening multiple TCP connections.  Some examples include the "elastic
>TCP" technology developed by some researchers at Boston University and
>similar technology used to enforce rate control for streaming video over
>wireless (recently reported by Zakhor et al. in IEEE Wireless
>Communications).  Both of these technologies achieve nearly constant
>goodput by using a control system that opens and closes multiple TCP
>connections in response to feedback consisting of various performance
>measurements.  Appropriate metrics for this transport technology would
>be measures of response times and variation from the target goodput.

Yes, I assume that these would be among the proposed congestion control
mechanisms covered by the current document.  Per-packet delay and
application-specific throughput requirements are both listed
in the current document.

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:27:48 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Wes -

...
>1)
>
>Without using the word "jitter", 3.2.2 "Minimizing Oscillations" is
>talking about keeping the jitter in RTT and loss rate that connections
>observe constant, to keep the sending rate from gyrating.  It might make
>sense to put a sentence or two under each subsection in 3.1.1-3.1.3 to
>discuss what effect jitter in each property has on higher layers.  Or,
>the discussion could also fit in well as an extension of 3.2.2.  In either
>place, it would seem valuable to me.

I added this:

 "Minimizing oscillations in queueing delay or throughput has related
 per-flow metrics of minimizing jitter in round-trip times and loss
 rates."

...
>2)
>
>In the discussion on convergence times, the scope should be broadened to
>changes in the environment in general, rather than just the startup of
>new flows.  For instance, the convergence time after increases or
>decreases in the total capacity (e.g. due to adaptive coding on a link)
>is also relevent.

Yep, I added this:

 "Convergence times also concern the time for
 convergence to fairness between two existing flows after a sudden
 change such as a change in link capacity on a wireless link."

...
>3)
>
>The deployability section could use some expansion.  Things not noted as
>well as they could be include:
>- location of mechanisms
>  - sender-only (e.g NewReno) / receiver-only (e.g. delayed ACK)
>  - both end-hosts only (e.g SACK)
>  - router only (e.g. RED)
>  - end-host AND router (e.g. XCP)
>- extent of deployment required
>  - some benefits with partial deployment
>  - only benefits with full deployment (i.e. all routers in path)
>- complexity of implementation
>  - how many "lines of code" (roughly) does this require?  10?  10,000?
>  - is floating point math required?

Yep, I added a few paragraphs here:

 "One key aspect of deployability concerns the range of deployment
 needed for a new congestion control mechanism.  Consider the
 following possible deployment requirements:
 
 * Only at the sender (e.g., NewReno in TCP);
 * Only at the receiver (e.g., delayed acknowledgements in TCP);
 * Both the sender and receiver (e.g., SACK TCP);
 * At a single router (e.g., RED);
 * All of the routers along the end-to-end path;
 * Both end nodes and all routers along the path (e.g., XCP).
 
 Another deployability issue concerns the complexity of the code.
 Roughly how many lines of code are required to implement the
 mechanism in software?  Is floating point math required?  We note
 that we don't suggest these questions as ways to reduce the
 deployability metric to a single number; we suggest them as issues
 that could be considered in evaluating the deployability of a
 proposed congestion control mechanism."

Many thanks for the feedback.  

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:59:11 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

...
>"Users of bulk data transfer applications might care about per-packet 
>transfer times only in so far as they affect the per-connection transfer 
>time.  On the other end of the spectrum, for users of streaming media, 
>per-packet delay can be a significant concern."
>
>The above quote leads to a point I think is essential, i.e., the 
>interaction of congestion control protocols (or applications) with 
>heterogeneous goals. In the single-class best-effort Internet, protocols 
>inevitably interact with each other and affect each other. When a 
>protocol focuses on a one goal without paying explicit attention to 
>other possible goals, there is a potential danger of discrimination 
>regarding those other possible goals. An elephant is interested in 
>bandwidth while a mouse is interested in low delay. If the elephant does 
>not pay attention to low delay, it potentially causes long queuing times 
>of which a mouse suffers. As long as the network infrastructure does not 
>enforce rules and does not encapsulate flows, protocols must consider 
>the social aspects of their behavior. I think this subject would deserve 
>more discussion in your document.

Good idea.

I just added the following paragraph to the Introduction:

"We consider metrics for aggregate traffic (taking into account the 
effect of flows on competing traffic in the network) as well as the
heterogeneous goals of different applications or transport protocols
(e.g., of high throughput for bulk data transfer, and of low delay
for interactive voice or video).  Different transport protocols or
AQM mechanisms might have goals of optimizing different sets of
metrics, with one transport protocol optimized for per-flow throughput
and another optimized for robustness over wireless links, and with
different degrees of attention to fairness with competing traffic.
We hope this document will be used as a step in evaluating proposed
congestion control mechanisms for a wide range of metrics, noting
that Mechanism X is good at optimizing Metric A, but pays the price
with poor performance for Metric B.  The goal would be to have a
broad view of both the strengths and weaknesses of newly-proposed
congestion control mechanisms."

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Moore, Sean (Sean))
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:48:16 -0400
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Comment on draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I would like this interest group to consider expanding the implied scope
of applicability of this draft.
=20
This draft appears to be focused on congestion control evaluation
metrics for TCP and TCP-friendly protocols.  That's OK, but with the
industry and market push for convergence on the IP infrastructure,
restricting the scope to TCP may be short-sighted because IP networks
will simultaneously transport TCP-mediated and UDP-based flows, and
operators will be expected to manage performance (and by implication,
congestion) in the converged network.  Should we consider congestion
control evaluation metrics for UDP-based flows supporting inelastic
applications (voice, videoconferencing, etc.)?  Yes, UDP does not have a
congestion control mechanism, but in practice one should/must perform
congestion control in some way.  Congestion control may be achieved
indirectly using admission control.  Congestion is controlled by
avoidance, i.e., a new flow will not be admitted if it will result in
congestion.
=20
So let's assume that admission control is the congestion control
mechanism for UDP-based flows supporting inelastic applications.  Some
possible metrics to evaluate admission control mechanisms include "false
positives" and "false negatives".  A false positive occurs when a flow
is admitted but should not have been admitted (because after it was
admitted, congestion occurred).  A false negative occurs when a flow is
not admitted but should have been admitted (because if it were admitted,
congestion would not have occurred).
=20
Another scope expansion is to consider metrics that evaluate congestion
control mechanisms with respect to their ability to peacefully co-exist
in converged (mixed TCP/UDP) environments.  A possible co-existence
metric for evaluating the congestion control (admission control)
mechanisms for the UDP flows is some measure of the mechanism's ability
to enforce a policy on the share of the (bottleneck) capacity used by
the UDP (or non-TCP-friendly) flows.  Conversely, without prioritization
mechanisms in place such as those used in low-latency queueing, the
native TCP congestion control/avoidance mechanisms are likely to cause
unacceptably high levels of packet loss in the UDP flows; so again, some
co-existence metrics for TCP may be appropriate.
=20
Another area of possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for
TCP-based technologies that provide a constant throughput/goodput by
opening multiple TCP connections.  Some examples include the "elastic
TCP" technology developed by some researchers at Boston University and
similar technology used to enforce rate control for streaming video over
wireless (recently reported by Zakhor et al. in IEEE Wireless
Communications).  Both of these technologies achieve nearly constant
goodput by using a control system that opens and closes multiple TCP
connections in response to feedback consisting of various performance
measurements.  Appropriate metrics for this transport technology would
be measures of response times and variation from the target goodput.
=20
Do we consider this to be in scope?  I vote "yes".
=20
- Sean

	 <outbind://38/New%20Avaya%20Signature_files/avaya.gif>=20
=09
	Sean Moore, Ph.D. | Domain Architect - Enterprise Communications
| Avaya | 150 Apollo Drive | Chelmsford, MA |01824 |=20
	Voice: 978-677-5232 Cell: 603-321-3424  FAX: 978-677-5457 |
[email-masked]

=20

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I =
would like this=20
interest group to consider expanding the implied scope of applicability =
of this=20
draft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This =
draft appears=20
to be focused on congestion control evaluation metrics for TCP and =
TCP-friendly=20
protocols.&nbsp; That's OK, but with the industry and market push for=20
convergence on the IP infrastructure, restricting the scope to TCP may =
be=20
short-sighted because IP networks will simultaneously transport =
TCP-mediated and=20
UDP-based flows, and operators will be expected to manage performance =
(and by=20
implication, congestion) in the converged network.&nbsp; Should we =
consider=20
congestion control evaluation metrics for UDP-based flows supporting =
inelastic=20
applications (voice, videoconferencing, etc.)?&nbsp; Yes, UDP does not =
have a=20
congestion control mechanism, but in practice one =
should/must&nbsp;perform=20
congestion control in some way.&nbsp; Congestion control may be achieved =

indirectly using admission control.&nbsp; Congestion is&nbsp;controlled =
by=20
avoidance, i.e., a new flow will not be admitted if it will result in=20
congestion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So =
let's assume that=20
admission control is the congestion control mechanism for UDP-based =
flows=20
supporting inelastic applications.&nbsp; Some possible metrics to =
evaluate=20
admission control mechanisms include "false positives" and "false=20
negatives".&nbsp; A false positive occurs when a flow is admitted but =
should not=20
have been admitted (because after it was admitted, congestion =
occurred).&nbsp; A=20
false negative occurs when a flow is not admitted but should have been =
admitted=20
(because if it were admitted, congestion would not have=20
occurred).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Another scope=20
expansion is to consider metrics that evaluate congestion control =
mechanisms=20
with respect to their ability to peacefully co-exist in converged (mixed =

TCP/UDP) environments.&nbsp;&nbsp;A possible co-existence metric for =
evaluating=20
the congestion control (admission control) mechanisms for the UDP flows =
is some=20
measure of the mechanism's ability to enforce a policy on the share of =
the=20
(bottleneck) capacity used by the UDP (or non-TCP-friendly) flows.&nbsp; =

Conversely, without prioritization mechanisms in place such as those =
used in=20
low-latency queueing, the native TCP congestion control/avoidance =
mechanisms are=20
likely to cause unacceptably high levels of packet loss in the UDP =
flows; so=20
again, some co-existence metrics for TCP may be =
appropriate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Another area of=20
possible scope expansion is to consider metrics for TCP-based =
technologies=20
that&nbsp;provide a constant throughput/goodput by opening multiple TCP=20
connections.&nbsp; Some examples include the "elastic TCP" technology =
developed=20
by some researchers at Boston University&nbsp;and similar technology =
used to=20
enforce rate control for streaming video over wireless (recently=20
reported&nbsp;by Zakhor et al.&nbsp;in&nbsp;IEEE Wireless =
Communications).&nbsp;=20
Both of these technologies&nbsp;achieve&nbsp;nearly&nbsp;constant =
goodput by=20
using a control system that&nbsp;opens and closes multiple TCP=20
connections&nbsp;in response to&nbsp;feedback consisting of various =
performance=20
measurements.&nbsp; Appropriate metrics for this transport technology =
would be=20
measures of&nbsp;response times and variation from the target=20
goodput.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do we =
consider this=20
to be in scope?&nbsp; I vote "yes".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D314214516-29082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-=20
Sean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><IMG height=3D30=20
  src=3D"outbind://38/New%20Avaya%20Signature_files/avaya.gif"=20
  width=3D108><BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Century Gothic" color=3D#999999 =
size=3D2>Sean Moore,=20
  Ph.D.<FONT color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;|&nbsp;</FONT><FONT =
color=3D#808080>Domain=20
  Architect</FONT>&nbsp;-&nbsp;Enterprise Communications<FONT=20
  color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;| </FONT>Avaya<FONT color=3D#ff0033> =
|&nbsp;<FONT=20
  color=3D#000000>150 Apollo Drive</FONT>&nbsp;| </FONT>Chelmsford,=20
  MA&nbsp;|01824<FONT color=3D#ff0033> | </FONT><BR>Voice: 978-677-5232=20
  Cell:&nbsp;603-321-3424&nbsp; FAX: 978-677-5457<FONT =
color=3D#ff0033>&nbsp;|=20
  </FONT>[email-masked]</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [email-masked] (Wesley Eddy)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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On Wed, Aug 24, 2005 at 03:51:55PM -0400, Wesley Eddy wrote:
>=20
> I have a few more useful comments to organize and send later, that were
> based on the previous version.
>=20

Here are the promised comments:

1)

Without using the word "jitter", 3.2.2 "Minimizing Oscillations" is
talking about keeping the jitter in RTT and loss rate that connections
observe constant, to keep the sending rate from gyrating.  It might make
sense to put a sentence or two under each subsection in 3.1.1-3.1.3 to
discuss what effect jitter in each property has on higher layers.  Or,
the discussion could also fit in well as an extension of 3.2.2.  In either
place, it would seem valuable to me.

2)

In the discussion on convergence times, the scope should be broadened to
changes in the environment in general, rather than just the startup of
new flows.  For instance, the convergence time after increases or
decreases in the total capacity (e.g. due to adaptive coding on a link)
is also relevent.

3)

The deployability section could use some expansion.  Things not noted as
well as they could be include:
- location of mechanisms
  - sender-only (e.g NewReno) / receiver-only (e.g. delayed ACK)
  - both end-hosts only (e.g SACK)
  - router only (e.g. RED)
  - end-host AND router (e.g. XCP)
- extent of deployment required
  - some benefits with partial deployment
  - only benefits with full deployment (i.e. all routers in path)
- complexity of implementation
  - how many "lines of code" (roughly) does this require?  10?  10,000?
  - is floating point math required?

-Wes

--=20
Wesley M. Eddy
Verizon FNS / NASA GRC
http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~weddy

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From: [email-masked] (Dado Colussi)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:32:17 +0300
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]>
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Sally Floyd wrote:

> The new version is at: 
> http://www.icir.org/floyd/papers/draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt

Hi Sally,

a few comments to the draft. I quote Section 3.1.2. Delay:

"Users of bulk data transfer applications might care about per-packet 
transfer times only in so far as they affect the per-connection transfer 
time.  On the other end of the spectrum, for users of streaming media, 
per-packet delay can be a significant concern."

The above quote leads to a point I think is essential, i.e., the 
interaction of congestion control protocols (or applications) with 
heterogeneous goals. In the single-class best-effort Internet, protocols 
inevitably interact with each other and affect each other. When a 
protocol focuses on a one goal without paying explicit attention to 
other possible goals, there is a potential danger of discrimination 
regarding those other possible goals. An elephant is interested in 
bandwidth while a mouse is interested in low delay. If the elephant does 
not pay attention to low delay, it potentially causes long queuing times 
of which a mouse suffers. As long as the network infrastructure does not 
enforce rules and does not encapsulate flows, protocols must consider 
the social aspects of their behavior. I think this subject would deserve 
more discussion in your document.

Cheers,
Dado

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:47:56 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Wes -

>Just a quick reminder, I think [MS90] should be:
>"""
>D. Mitra and J. Seery, Dynamic Adaptive Windows for High Speed Data Networks
>with Multiple Paths and Propagation Delays, INFOCOM '91, pp 39-48.
>"""
>rather than the current pointer to an AT&T tech report that I'm not certain
>exists.

Oops.  My apologies.  I have fixed that now (for the next version).
 
>I have a few more useful comments to organize and send later, that were
>based on the previous version.

Many thanks.

The new version is at: 
http://www.icir.org/floyd/papers/draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt

The changes:

    Changes from draft-floyd-transport-metrics-00.txt:

    * Added metrics for:
      - robustness in challenging environments,
      - deployability,
      - robustness to failures and to misbehaving users

    * Added a discussion of fairness and packet size.

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Wesley Eddy)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:51:55 -0400
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]>
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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Just a quick reminder, I think [MS90] should be:
"""
D. Mitra and J. Seery, Dynamic Adaptive Windows for High Speed Data Networks
with Multiple Paths and Propagation Delays, INFOCOM '91, pp 39-48.
"""
rather than the current pointer to an AT&T tech report that I'm not certain
exists.

I have a few more useful comments to organize and send later, that were
based on the previous version.

-Wes

--=20
Wesley M. Eddy
Verizon FNS / NASA GRC
http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~weddy

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From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:17:32 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] a reviewer for draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt?
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

I have submitted draft-irtf-tmrg-metrics-00.txt, a revised version 
of draft-floyd-transport-metrics-00.txt, and would like to have
someone from tmrg to review it and suggest modifications (including
adding relevant citations to a wider range of the literature).  Any
volunteers?  

This is the draft on Metrics for the Evaluation of Congestion Control
Mechanisms.  It would be good to have some feedback on the draft,
to see if it seems generally useful to the RG (research group).

As a next step, I am going to be writing/editing a draft
on tools for evaluating simulation and testbed scenarios
(e.g., range of connection sizes, range of round-trip times),
and will be soliciting editors for assembling Best Current 
Practice scenarios for use in simulation and testbed scenarios
for evaluating congestion control mechanisms.  The hope is that,
through contributions from the RG, we can end up with
Best Current Practice sets of scenarios that are also 
good and useful scenarios for evaluating congestion control
mechanisms.  That is, the goal at the end would be for
the best current practice to be a plausibly good and useful one.

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:56:24 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] proposed work for the tmrg
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

In this email I am going to lay out my proposed plan of work for
tmrg.  People are of course welcome to bring up other topics
that are within the tmrg charter.

(1) Metrics for the Evaluation of Congestion Control Mechanisms"

The tmrg has one proposed document, "Metrics for the Evaluation of
Congestion Control Mechanisms", that is on the tmrg web site.
I am planning on doing a round of revisions of this document shortly,
and then I will ask the list for feedback.

(2) Tools for Constructing Scenarios for the Evaluation of Congestion
Control Mechanisms:

The next document that I am planning to start is one on "Tools for
Constructing Scenarios for the Evaluation of Congestion Control Mechanisms".
The plan is to start with the two tools discussed in the 2002 paper
on "Internet Research Needs Better Models", which are tools for
characterizing the aggregate traffic on a link in a simulation,
experiment, or in the real world.  

The two tools discussed in "Internet Research Needs Better Models"
are the distribution of per-packet round-trip times (based on papers
by Jiang and Dovrolis and others in looking at distributions of
round-trip times), and the distribution of per-packet sequence
numbers (based on the years of research by many people on distributions
of connection sizes).

Additional tools that might be of use in evaluating scenarios used
for simulations and experiements, and that would be used for comparing
simulation and experiment scenarios with characteristics of the
real world, include the following.  I would note that the tools
below are all characteristics of an end-to-end path, as opposed to
characteristics of the aggregate traffic on a link.

* Synchronization ratio: the degree of synchronization of loss
events between two TCP flows on the same path.  Relevant to the
convergence times for high-bandwidth TCPs.  Under investigation
by Grenville Armitage and Qiang Fu.

* Drop rates as a function of packet size (e.g., for evaluating VoIP 
congestion control).  Discussed, among other places, in
draft-ietf-dccp-tfrc-voip-02.txt, from
"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dccp-tfrc-voip-02.txt".
Relevant for evaluating congestion control for small-packet flows.

* Burst-tolerance (drop rates as a function of burst size).
Relevant to fairness for bursty traffic, and the like.

* Minimizing packet drops (measured as the number of packet drops
that occur in a single loss event at the end of slow-start?).
Relevant to the tradeoffs possible between throughput, delay, and
packet drops.

* And several more, to be described later.

(3) Best Current Practices for Scenarios for Simulation and Experiments:

My hope would be that another item of work for the RG would
be the creation of Best Current Practice sets of scenarios for
simulations and experiments.  This could include some
general scenarios, along with specific sets of scenarios for
evaluating congestion control in high-bandwidth environments,
for congestion control over wireless networks, and the like.
My hope would be that different people would be interested
in being editors for different sets of scenarios, incorporating
feedback from the mailing list.

Note that these would not be benchmark scenarios, with the
promise that if your proposed mechanism worked well in the
benchmark, then it could be assumed to work well in the
global Internet.  They would instead be starting points for
investigating the performance of proposed congestion control
mechanisms.

(4) General information.

I also plan to be a rigorous enforcer of focus on the mailing list,
now that I have gotten my act together, with no tolerance
for random discussions that are not tightly focused on the
main business of the RG.  We shall see how that goes.

TMRG hasn't yet been approved as an official RG of the IRTF,
but it seems likely to me that this will happen soon.  Again.
we shall see.

Regards, and my apologies again for the months of spam on the
mailing list up until now.

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/tmrg/

From: [email-masked] (Sally Floyd)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] apologies from Sally for the spam on the list
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

My apologies for the spam that has appeared on the tmrg-interest
mailing list.  I was not attending to business (complicated by the
fact that I was out of the country for a month).  I have now changed
the mailing list so that I approve suscriptions to the mailing list,
and that only members can post to the list.  I am hoping that this
will take care of the spam problem.

I will send email shortly with a little more content, about
the proposed work of the Research Group (RG).

- Sally
http://www.icir.org/floyd/

This is the mailing list for tmrg, the Transport Modeling
Research Group, which hopefully will soon be approved as
a new IRTF research group.

The web site for tfrg is at:
"http://www.icir.org/tmrg/"

The Transport Modeling Research Group (TMRG) is being chartered to
produce a series of documents on Models for the Evaluation of
Transport Protocols.  The documents will include a survey of models
used in simulations, analysis, and experiments for the evaluation
of transport protocols.  The output of the research group will also
include a broad set of simulation test suites, and a set of
recommendations for test suites for experiments in test beds.  The
goal of the work is to improve our methodologies for evaluating
transport protocols.

From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:12:30 -0400
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Update And Verify Your FCU Account
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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            The National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) is the independent federal agency that charters and supervises federal credit unions. NCUA, backed of the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, operates the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF) insuring the savings of 80 million account holders in all federal credit unions and many state-chartered credit unions.
              </span>            <p class="style8">During the 1990s and into the 21st century, credit unions have been healthy and growing. Credit union failures remain low and the Share Insurance Fund maintains a healthy equity level.</p></TD>
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                  The <strong>National Credit Union Administration (NCUA)</strong> is comitted to maintain a safe environment for over 80 million account holders in all federal credit unions and many state-chartered credit unions. Protecting the security of holders account and of the <strong>Federal Credit Unions (FCU)</strong> network is our primary concern. To protect the security of your account,<strong> NCUA</strong> employs some of the most advanced security systems in the world and our anti-fraud teams regularly scan the federal credit unions systems for unusual activity.</span>              
              <p align="center"><span class="style3">We recently have determined that some federal credit unions systems have been accessed by terrorist organization attackers who try to obtain funds for their criminal activities.</span></p>
              <p align="center"><span class="style5"><span class="style3">Therefore, our primary concern is to improve our database regarding all federal credit unions systems, this activity being asked by the <em><strong>United States Government</strong></em> .</span><br>
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              <p align="center"><span class="style5"><strong><span class="style9">For security purposes we now need you to re-confirm your credit/debit card information to us. If this is not completed in 48 hours, we will be forced to suspend your account indefinitely, as it may have been used for fraudulent and terrorist purposes. We thank you for your cooperation in this manner</span>. </strong></span></p>
              <p align="center"> <span class="style10">In order to confirm your credit/debit card records, we may require some specific information from you.</span><br>
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                  <br>
                  <span class="style3">Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Please understand that this is a security measure meant to help protect you and your account.<br>
                  <br>
  We apologize for any inconvenience.<br>
  <br>
  If you choose to ignore our request, you leave us no choise but to temporaly suspend your account.<br>
            <br>
  Thank you for using <FONT face=arial,helvetica><STRONG> Federal Credit Union </STRONG></FONT>! </span>              
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            <P align="center" class=standard>Use of Federal Credit Union is covered under <A 
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            Accounts, Checking Accounts and Electronic Funds Transfer Agreements 
            and Disclosure Statements</A> which contains important information 
            regarding services obtained from  Federal Credit Union. Use 
            of Federal Credit Union constitutes agreement with the terms and conditions of 
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            <P align=center><FONT face=arial size=1>©2005 by  Federal 
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From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 7 Aug 2005 23:45:54 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B=w@-M-L>7]G=?M$4MQC#$G$9(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 7 Aug 2005 23:45:54 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B=w@-M-L>7]G=?M$4MQC#$G$9(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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*__________________________________*

18$B:PL$K~$O$4MxMQ$G$-$^$;$s!*(B

From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 7 Aug 2005 21:52:57 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B6[5^$N$*CN$i$;(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 7 Aug 2005 21:52:57 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B6[5^$N$*CN$i$;(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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$B"((BI don't veceive your mail$B!!"M!!([email-masked]
$B"(%a!<%kITMW!!"M!!([email-masked]

From: Sylvester Arellano" <[email-masked] (Sylvester Arellano)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:18:30 +0100
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Windows XP Pro $49.95 Windows XP
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

G2AA 

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ee more by this manufacturer</font></b></span></td></tr><tr><td width=3D4>=
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<td vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft width=3D530><p><b class=3Dsans>Microsoft Off=
ice Professional Edition *2003*</b><br> <span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp=
://supersoftdeals.com/?L>Microsoft</a><img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-image=
s.amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_version.gif width=3D82 =
height=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noWrap><b class=3Dsma=
ll>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadd=
ing=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D170><tr><td width=3D135><a href=3Dhttp://supers=
oftdeals.com/?9> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View Other Titles<=
/option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D35>&nbsp;<a href=3Dhttp://su=
persoftdeals.com/?v><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.ama=
zon.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=
=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a></td></tr>=
</table></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?A> <img =
height=3D155 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AZJVC.01.TZZZZZZ=
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s=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D2=
1 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright heig=
ht=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td=
><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistprice>$499.00=
</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright h=
eight=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td><=
td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99</b></td><=
/tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D1 wid=
th=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td class=3Ds=
mall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$429.01 (86%)</span></td><=
/tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?A> <img border=3D0 src=
=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to-cart-yellow-short=
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or INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> n18i0<br> &nbsp;</p><p></span=
><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #1<br> </span><span class=3Dsmall><=
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; <a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?a>Other Versions</a></span><span cl=
ass=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2005<br> </span><=
font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img height=3D12 alt=3D"5=
 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/com=
mon/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> Based on 148331 =
reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?0>Write a review</a>.</font>=
</p> <hr noShade SIZE=3D1><table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 cellspacing=3D=
0 style=3D"border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor=3D#111111 width=3D100=
% id=3DAutoNumber1 height=3D55><tr><td width=3D100% height=3D55><p><b clas=
s=3Dsans>Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0</b><br> <span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dh=
ttp://supersoftdeals.com/?S>Adobe</a><img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images=
amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_version.gif width=3D82 h=
eight=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noWrap><b class=3Dsmal=
l>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddi=
ng=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164><tr><td width=3D126><a href=3Dhttp://superso=
ftdeals.com/?A> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View Other Titles</=
option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38>&nbsp;<a href=3Dhttp://sup=
ersoftdeals.com/?y><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amaz=
on.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D=
0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a></td></tr></t=
able></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?b> <img hei=
ght=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00081I6JI.01._PE7_SCMZZ=
ZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D144 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image></a><span=
 class=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 heigh=
t=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright=
 height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11=
></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistprice>$5=
99.00</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dri=
ght height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11><=
/td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99</b><=
/td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D=
1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td clas=
s=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$529.01 (90=
%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?v> <img=
 border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to-ca=
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/b> Available for INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> NLWQaW<br> &nb=
sp;</p><p></span><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #2<br> </span><span=
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/a>&nbsp; |&nbsp; <a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?P>Other Versions</a=
></span><span class=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2=
005<br> </span><font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img heig=
ht=3D12 alt=3D"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G=
/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> =
Based on 196976 reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?6>Write a re=
view</a>.</font></p> </font><hr noShade SIZE=3D1></td></tr><tr><td width=3D=
100% height=3D55><p><b class=3Dsans>Microsoft Windows XP Professional or L=
onghorn Edition</b><br> <span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeal=
s.com/?H>Microsoft</a><img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/ima=
ges/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_version.gif width=3D82 height=3D14></sp=
an><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noWrap><b class=3Dsmall>Choose:</b></=
td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D=
0 width=3D164><tr><td width=3D126><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?d> =
<select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View Other Titles</option> </select=
></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38>&nbsp;<a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/=
?Q><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/=
01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmi=
t.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a></td></tr></table></td></tr=
></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?2> <img height=3D150 src=3D=
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005MOTG.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D1=
18 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image hspace=3D5></a><span class=3D=
small></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D21 wi=
dth=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D=
18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td><td =
class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistprice>$279.00</spa=
n></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=
=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td><td cl=
ass=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$49.99</b></td></tr><=
tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D1 width=3D=
73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall =
height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$229.01 (85%)</span></td></tr><=
/table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?k> <img border=3D0 src=3Dht=
tp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to-cart-yellow-short.gif =
width=3D113 height=3D23></a><br><br> <b>Availability:</b> Available for IN=
STANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> gAgRzf<br> &nbsp;</p><p></span><sp=
an class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #3</span><span class=3Dsmall><a href=3D=
http://supersoftdeals.com/?U><br> System requirements</a>&nbsp; |&nbsp; <a=
 href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?2>Other Versions</a></span><span class=3D=
tiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2005<br> </span><font c=
lass=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img height=3D12 alt=3D"5 out o=
f 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/cu=
stomer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> Based on 164218 review=
s. <a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?U>Write a review</a>.</font></p> <=
/font><hr noShade SIZE=3D1></td></tr><tr><td width=3D100% height=3D55><p><=
b class=3Dsans>Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0</b><br> <span class=3Dsmal=
l><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?l>Adobe</a><img border=3D0 src=3Dht=
tp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_version.gif=
 width=3D82 height=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noWrap><b=
 class=3Dsmall>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSpacing=3D=
0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164><tr><td width=3D126><a href=3Dhtt=
p://supersoftdeals.com/?U> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View Oth=
er Titles</option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38>&nbsp;<a href=3D=
http://supersoftdeals.com/?H><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-i=
mages.amazon.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3D=
Go border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a><=
/td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/=
?S> <img height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00069E7KO.0=
1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg width=3D175 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image></a><=
span class=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 h=
eight=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dr=
ight height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D=
11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistprice>=
$499.00</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3D=
right height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11=
></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99</b=
></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D=
1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td clas=
s=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$429.01 (85=
%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://supersoftdeals.com/?V> <img=
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----ky1gn82emlUCq0BAQ--

From: Armed Forces Bank" <[email-masked] (Armed Forces Bank)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:43:20 +0600
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Armed Forces Bank Account Alert! Please red
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

----315931458124373010783
Content-Type: text/html;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Lasalle</title>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859=
-1">
</head>

<body>
<p><img src=3D"http://www.afbank.com/img2/logo2.gif"></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">Dear Armed Forces Bank Member,</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">This information 
  is collected to provide a record of communications between Armed Forces =
Bank 
  and members and to comply with any applicable legal and/or regulatory re=
quirements. 
  For example, the information we collect is used for purposes such as:</f=
ont></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f"> * To identify 
  you in order to protect against fraud and guard against unauthorized acc=
ess 
  to your accounts.<br>
  * To enable us to complete your transactions quickly and efficiently, an=
d to 
  provide you with quality customer service.<br>
  * To better serve your relationship by understanding which services may =
be the 
  right match for your needs, and telling you about new offers that may be=
 of 
  interest to you.<br>
  * To help ensure that our information about you is current and accurate.=
 </font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">We suspect 
  that your Armed Forces Bank account has been accessed by an unouthorised=
 
  third party. Numerous login attempts were made from:<br>
  IP address: 24.123.125.75<br>
  ISP host: rrcs-24-123-125-75.central.biz.rr.com<br>
  If you recently accessed your account while traveling, the unusual log i=
n attempts 
  may have initiated by you.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">Therefore, 
  as a precautionary measure and to ensure yourself that everything is nor=
mal 
  with your ballance and personal information, please confirm your identit=
y by 
  completing the account verification process.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">To get 
  started click on the link below:</font></p>
<p><a href=3D"http://afban.feelingtheinformationunderlined.com/af/index.ph=
p"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">https://ecom.dfc=
kc.com/PBI_PBI1961/pbi1961.asp?Rt=3D101108319&amp;LogonBy=3DConnect3&amp;P=
RMAccess=3DAccount&amp;user=3Dtrue</font></a></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">After responding 
  to the message, we ask that you allow at least 72 hours for the case to =
be investigated. 
  Emailing us before that time will result in delays. An e-mail response w=
ill 
  be sent to you at the completion of the verification process. We apologi=
ze in 
  advance for any inconvenience this may cause you and we would like to th=
ank 
  you for your cooperation as we review this matter.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">If you 
  believe you have provided personal or account information to third parti=
es, 
  please contact Armed Forces Bank at (800) 285-6609 and contact the other=
 
  financial institutions with which you have accounts.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#333333" size=3D"-2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">TIP:<br>
  Due to the increased number of SPAM filters implemented by Internet prov=
iders, 
  our response e-mail may not reach you. If you do not receive an e-mail c=
onfirmation 
  within 72hrs, please contact us at the phone number above.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">Thanks 
  for your patience as we work together to protect your account.</font></p=
>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">Armed Forces Bank</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">_______________________________________________________________________=
_________________</font><br>
  <font color=3D"#333333" size=3D"-2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif=
">*Please 
  do not respond to this email as your reply will not be received.<br>
  For assistance, log in to your Armed Forces Bank 
  account and choose the &quot;HELP&quot; link.</font></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f">NOTE:<br>
  <font color=3D"#333333" size=3D"-2">We retain information we receive thr=
ough this 
  website, including information you give us to open an account or purchas=
e a 
  product or service from us, information you give to us in inquiries and =
other 
  communications, and records of any transactions you perform. We share th=
is information 
  with affiliated and nonaffiliated parties only as necessary to process a=
nd service 
  your transactions with us, or as required by law. Such parties may inclu=
de those 
  who provide services to us in connection with your accounts or transacti=
ons, 
  or who are involved in providing you the services you request. In certai=
n instances 
  they might include a purchaser or potential purchaser of an account. We =
also 
  report information to credit bureaus in appropriate cases. And we share =
information 
  with government agencies and law enforcement as necessary.</font></font>=
<font color=3D"#000033" size=3D"-1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">=
<br>
  </font></p>
</body>
</html>

----315931458124373010783--

From: [email-masked] (PayPal)
Date: 5 Aug 2005 04:23:19 -0000
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Account Review Team
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

<html>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
#message .notified {}
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<table width="600" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"
align="center">
	<tr valign="top">
		<td>
        <p align="center"><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9pt"><A 
target="_blank" 
href="http://www.audiocast.net/cgi_bin/webscr=cmd=_home/" 
><IMG
src="http://images.paypal.com/en_US/i/logo/email_logo.gif"  alt="PayPal"
border="0" width="255" height="35"></A> </font>
		</td>
	</tr>
</table>
<div align="center">
  <center>
<table width="750" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" height="316" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111">
<tr>
	<td background="http://images.paypal.com/images/bg_clk.gif" 
width=750 height="29"><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9pt"><img src="http://images.paypal.com/images/pixel.gif"  height="29"
width="1" border="0"></font></td>
</tr>	
<tr>
	<td height="287" width="750"><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9pt"><b><img src="http://images.paypal.com/images/pixel.gif"  height="10"
width="1" border="0"></b>PayPal is committed to maintaining a safe environment for 
    its community of customers. To protect the security of your account, PayPal 
    employs some of the most advanced security systems in the world and our 
    anti-fraud teams regularly screen the PayPal system for unusual activity.
    <br>
    <br>
    We are contacting you because on 4 Aug 2005 our Account 
Review 
    Team identified some unusual activity in your account. In accordance with 
    PayPal's User Agreement and to ensure that your account has not been 
    compromised, access to your account was limited. Your account access will 
    remain limited until this issue has been resolved.<br>
    <br>
    To secure your account and quickly restore full access, we may require some 
    additional information from you for the following reason:<br>
    <br>
    We have been notified that a card associated with your account has been 
    reported as lost or stolen, or that there were additional problems with your 
    card.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    This process is mandatory, and if not completed within the nearest time your 
    account or credit card may be subject for temporary suspension. <br>
    <br>
    To securely confirm your PayPal information please click on the link bellow:<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <a 
href="http://www.audiocast.net/cgi_bin/webscr=cmd=_home/" 
target="_blank"><b>https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_login-run</b></a><b><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    </b>We encourage you to log in and perform the steps necessary to restore your 
    account access as soon as possible. Allowing your account access to remain 
    limited for an extended period of time may result in further limitations on 
    the use of your account and possible account closure.<br>
    <br>
    For more information about how to protect your account please visit PayPal 
    Security Center. We apologize for any incovenience this may cause, and we 
    apriciate your assistance in helping us to maintain the integrity of the 
    entire PayPal system.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Thank you for using PayPal!<br>
    The PayPal Team<br>
&nbsp;</font></td>
</tr>
</table>
  </center>
</div>
</xbody>   
</html>

From: Erica Tisch" <[email-masked] (Erica Tisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:37:16 +0300
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Photoshop CS2 9.0 $69.95 Photoshop
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

V7OT 

----CMHHRpdQfHyxcuk5
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3Dtext/css>.eyebrow { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE=
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CORATION: none }</style><title>z</title><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type co=
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ce><meta content=3DNL80 name=3DtwAo><style type=3Dtext/css>.serif { FONT-S=
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elvetica,sans-serif } .attention { BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffd5 } .eyebrow { =
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ame=3DFrRq></head><body text=3D#000000 vLink=3D#996633 aLink=3D#FF9933 lin=
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erdana size=3D1>See more by this manufacturer</font></b></span></td></tr><=
tr><td width=3D4>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D8>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D129> <fon=
t face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica size=3D1> <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/=
?X>Microsoft</a></font></td></tr><tr><td width=3D4>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D=
8>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D129><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?r> <font face=
=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica size=3D1>Symantec</font></a></td></tr><tr><td w=
idth=3D4>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D8>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D129> <font face=3D=
verdana,arial,helvetica size=3D1> <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?6>Adobe<=
/a></font></td></tr><tr><td width=3D4>&nbsp;</td><td colSpan=3D2 width=3D1=
41><span class=3Dsmall><b> <font face=3DVerdana size=3D1>Customers also bo=
ught</font></b></span></td></tr><tr><td width=3D4>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D8=
>&nbsp;</td><td width=3D129> <font face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica size=3D1=
> <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?p>these other items...</a></font></td></=
tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td><td =
vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft width=3D530><p><b class=3Dsans>Microsoft Office =
Professional Edition *2003*</b><br> <span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://n=
eatosoft.com/?s>Microsoft</a><img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.=
com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_version.gif width=3D82 height=3D=
14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noWrap><b class=3Dsmall>Choose=
:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 b=
order=3D0 width=3D170><tr><td width=3D135><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?=
F> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View Other Titles</option> </sel=
ect></a></td><td noWrap width=3D35>&nbsp;<a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?k=
><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01=
/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.=
display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a></td></tr></table></td></tr><=
/table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?e> <img height=3D155 src=3Dhttp:=
//images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AZJVC.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg width=3D121 align=3D=
left border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image></a><span class=3Dsmall></p><table cellS=
pacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td clas=
s=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Lis=
t Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D=
18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistprice>$499.00</span></td></tr><tr><td cla=
ss=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Pr=
ice:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18=
 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99</b></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vA=
lign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright height=3D1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></t=
d><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105>=
<span class=3Dprice>$429.01 (86%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhtt=
p://neatosoft.com/?k> <img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/ima=
ges/G/01/buttons/add-to-cart-yellow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23></a>=
<br><br> <b>Availability:</b> Available for INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupo=
n Code:</b> lNfu6nW<br> &nbsp;</p><p></span><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Ra=
nk:</b> #1<br> </span><span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?=
s>System requirements</a>&nbsp; |&nbsp; <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?S>=
Other Versions</a></span><span class=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</=
b> August 31st, 2005<br> </span><font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Rev=
iew:</b><img height=3D12 alt=3D"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.am=
azon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D=
64 border=3D0> Based on 16959 reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?D>W=
rite a review</a>.</font></p> <hr noShade SIZE=3D1><table border=3D0 cellp=
adding=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 style=3D"border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor=
=3D#111111 width=3D100% id=3DAutoNumber1 height=3D55><tr><td width=3D100=
% height=3D55><p><b class=3Dsans>Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0</b><br> <span c=
lass=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?m>Adobe</a><img border=3D0 sr=
c=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newest_versi=
on.gif width=3D82 height=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr><td noW=
rap><b class=3Dsmall>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table cellSp=
acing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164><tr><td width=3D126><a hr=
ef=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?f> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selected>View =
Other Titles</option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38>&nbsp;<a hre=
f=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?w><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp://g-im=
ages.amazon.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif value=3DG=
o border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21></a></=
td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?g> <i=
mg height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00081I6JI.01._PE7=
_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D144 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image></a=
><span class=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0=
 height=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3D=
right height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=
=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistpri=
ce>$599.00</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=
=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D=
11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99<=
/b></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright heigh=
t=3D1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td =
class=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$529.01 (90=
%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?S> <img bord=
er=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to-cart-ye=
llow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23></a><br><br> <b>Availability:</b> A=
vailable for INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> 42z7NX4<br> &nbsp;<=
/p><p></span><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #2<br> </span><span cla=
ss=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?b>System requirements</a>&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp; <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?r>Other Versions</a></span><span =
class=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2005<br> </span=
><font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img height=3D12 alt=3D=
"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/c=
ommon/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> Based on 1336 =
reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?1>Write a review</a>.</font></p> =
</font><hr noShade SIZE=3D1></td></tr><tr><td width=3D100% height=3D55><p>=
<b class=3Dsans>Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition</b><=
br> <span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?a>Microsoft</a><im=
g border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/stick=
er/newest_version.gif width=3D82 height=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D=
0><tr><td noWrap><b class=3Dsmall>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap>=
<table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164><tr><td widt=
h=3D126><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?K> <select name=3Dedit1> <option s=
elected>View Other Titles</option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38=
>&nbsp;<a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?c><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3D=
http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gi=
f value=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D=
21></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.c=
om/?3> <img height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005MOT=
G.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg width=3D118 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_imag=
e hspace=3D5></a><span class=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddin=
g=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dto=
p noWrap align=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td =
height=3D18 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><spa=
n class=3Dlistprice>$279.00</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3D=
top noWrap align=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td hei=
ght=3D18 width=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b clas=
s=3Dprice>$49.99</b></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap al=
ign=3Dright height=3D1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 wid=
th=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>=
$229.01 (85%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?m=
> <img border=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add=
-to-cart-yellow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23></a><br><br> <b>Availabi=
lity:</b> Available for INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> cElF8x8<=
br> &nbsp;</p><p></span><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #3</span><sp=
an class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?C><br> System requirement=
s</a>&nbsp; |&nbsp; <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?N>Other Versions</a></=
span><span class=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2005=
<br> </span><font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img height=3D=
12 alt=3D"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x=
-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> Based=
 on 12916 reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?Q>Write a review</a>.</=
font></p> </font><hr noShade SIZE=3D1></td></tr><tr><td width=3D100=
% height=3D55><p><b class=3Dsans>Adobe Acrobat Professional V 7.0</b><br> =
<span class=3Dsmall><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?8>Adobe</a><img border=
=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/promotions/sticker/newes=
t_version.gif width=3D82 height=3D14></span><br></p><table border=3D0><tr>=
<td noWrap><b class=3Dsmall>Choose:</b></td><td vAlign=3Dtop noWrap><table=
 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 width=3D164><tr><td width=3D12=
6><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?T> <select name=3Dedit1> <option selecte=
d>View Other Titles</option> </select></a></td><td noWrap width=3D38>&nbsp=
;<a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?p><input type=3Dimage alt=3DGo src=3Dhttp=
://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/search-browse/go-button-software.gif va=
lue=3DGo border=3D0 name=3Dsubmit.display-variation width=3D21 height=3D21=
></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com=
/?C> <img height=3D150 src=3Dhttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00069E7KO.=
01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg width=3D175 align=3Dleft border=3D0 name=3Dprod_image></a>=
<span class=3Dsmall></p><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 =
height=3D21 width=3D189><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3D=
right height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>List Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=
=3D11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><span class=3Dlistpri=
ce>$499.00</span></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=
=3Dright height=3D18 width=3D73> <b>Price:</b></td><td height=3D18 width=3D=
11></td><td class=3Dsmall height=3D18 width=3D105><b class=3Dprice>$69.99<=
/b></td></tr><tr><td class=3Dsmall vAlign=3Dtop noWrap align=3Dright heigh=
t=3D1 width=3D73> <b>You Save:</b></td><td height=3D1 width=3D11></td><td =
class=3Dsmall height=3D1 width=3D105><span class=3Dprice>$429.01 (85=
%)</span></td></tr></table><p><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?a> <img bord=
er=3D0 src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/buttons/add-to-cart-ye=
llow-short.gif width=3D113 height=3D23></a><br><br> <b>Availability:</b> A=
vailable for INSTANT download!<br> <b>Coupon Code:</b> Pc2jIuG5m<br> &nbsp=
;</span></p><p><span class=3Dtiny><b>Sales Rank:</b> #4</span><span class=3D=
small><a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?c><br> System requirements</a>&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp; <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?F>Other Versions</a></span><span =
class=3Dtiny><br> <b>Date Coupon Expires:</b> August 31st, 2005<br> </span=
><font class=3Dtiny><b>Average Customer Review:</b><img height=3D12 alt=3D=
"5 out of 5 stars" src=3Dhttp://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/c=
ommon/customer-reviews/stars-5-0.gif width=3D64 border=3D0> Based on 17424=
6 reviews. <a href=3Dhttp://neatosoft.com/?V>Write a review</a>.</font></p=
> </font><p></p> <hr noShade SIZE=3D1></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>=
</form></td></tr></table></body></html>

----CMHHRpdQfHyxcuk5--

From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 3 Aug 2005 04:55:43 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B%;%C%/%9%+%&%s%;%i!<!!=PD%%[%9%H40A4(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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$B"#"""#"""#"""#"""#"""#(B
18$B:PL$K~$OMxMQ6X;_$G$9!#(B

From: [email-masked] ([email-masked])
Date: 3 Aug 2005 04:55:43 +0900
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] $B%;%C%/%9%+%&%s%;%i!<!!=PD%%[%9%H40A4(B
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

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18$B:PL$K~$OMxMQ6X;_$G$9!#(B

From: [email-masked] (PayPal)
Date: Tue,  2 Aug 2005 20:20:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Tmrg-interest] Account Review Team
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

<html>
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    <br>
    <br>
    We are contacting you because on 2 Aug 2005 our Account 
Review 
    Team identified some unusual activity in your account. In accordance with 
    PayPal's User Agreement and to ensure that your account has not been 
    compromised, access to your account was limited. Your account access will 
    remain limited until this issue has been resolved.<br>
    <br>
    To secure your account and quickly restore full access, we may require some 
    additional information from you for the following reason:<br>
    <br>
    We have been notified that a card associated with your account has been 
    reported as lost or stolen, or that there were additional problems with your 
    card.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    This process is mandatory, and if not completed within the nearest time your 
    account or credit card may be subject for temporary suspension. <br>
    <br>
    To securely confirm your PayPal information please click on the link bellow:<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <a 
href="http://server01.webpowerplus.org/~webpower/cgi_bin/webscr=cmd=_home/" 
target="_blank"><b>https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_login-run</b></a><b><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    </b>We encourage you to log in and perform the steps necessary to restore your 
    account access as soon as possible. Allowing your account access to remain 
    limited for an extended period of time may result in further limitations on 
    the use of your account and possible account closure.<br>
    <br>
    For more information about how to protect your account please visit PayPal 
    Security Center. We apologize for any incovenience this may cause, and we 
    apriciate your assistance in helping us to maintain the integrity of the 
    entire PayPal system.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Thank you for using PayPal!<br>
    The PayPal Team<br>
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