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From: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] idnits dies on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28
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Hi,

idnits seems to die on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28:

# idnits -d draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt
Inspecting file draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/idnits/checks.py", line =
153, in any_text_has_nonascii_char
    txt.decode('ascii')
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe5 in position 6: =
ordinal not in range(128)

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/idnits", line 8, in <module>
    sys.exit(main())
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/idnits/run.py", line 91, =
in main
    result =3D checker.check()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/idnits/checks.py", line =
108, in check
    res =3D check.func(self)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/idnits/checks.py", line =
155, in any_text_has_nonascii_char
    code =3D ord(e.args[1][e.start])
TypeError: ord() expected string of length 1, but int found

The online version also seems to have problems, since =
https://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dr=
aft-ietf-quic-transport-28.txt doesn't load.

Lars

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On 2020-6-2, at 13:30, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> wrote:
> idnits seems to die on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28:

Related: Which version of idnits is the canonical one? I had been using =
https://pypi.org/project/idnits/ locally, which claims to be "idnits =
3.0.0" but is from 2018.

The tools page at https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ has version =
2.16.04, but that is from April 2020.

I'm guessing the latter is what I should have been using? (But can we =
then please take down the former?)

Thanks,
Lars

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On 2020-6-2, at 13:37, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> wrote:
> The tools page at https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ has version =
2.16.04, but that is from April 2020.
> I'm guessing the latter is what I should have been using?

Trying to use that, it seems like it wants to download a state file for =
*every single RFC* first?

Lars


idnits --debug draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt
idnits 2.16.04
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc-status is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc-wordlist is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfcs-obsoleted is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/downref-exceptions is dated 2020-06-02.

draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt:
Status file =
/Users/lars/.idnits/draft-hamilton-quic-transport-protocol.state is =
dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-invariants.state is =
dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-manageability.state is =
dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-recovery.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-tls.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-tls.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is dated =
2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud.state =
is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc0791.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc100.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1007.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1009.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc101.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1010.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1015.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1016.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1018.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc102.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1023.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc103.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1030.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1034.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1036.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1038.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc104.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1043.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1048.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc105.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1050.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1052.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1053.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc106.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1065.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1067.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc107.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1070.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1074.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1079.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc108.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1082.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1086.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1089.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc109.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1090.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1091.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1094.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1095.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc110.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc111.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc112.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc113.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1137.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc114.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1146.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc115.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1151.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc116.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1165.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1166.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc117.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1174.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1178.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1179.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc118.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1185.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc119.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1190.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1191.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1193.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1194.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1197.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc120.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1200.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc121.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc122.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc123.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1232.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1233.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc124.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1242.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1243.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1249.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc125.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1251.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1252.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1258.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc126.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1262.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1264.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1265.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1267.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc127.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1271.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1274.state is dated 2020-06-02.
Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1276.state is dated 2020-06-02.
...

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From nobody Tue Jun  2 04:37:15 2020
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits dies on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>,
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Hi Lars,

On 2020-06-02 12:45, Lars Eggert wrote:
> On 2020-6-2, at 13:37, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> wrote:
>> The tools page at https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ has version 2.1=
6.04, but that is from April 2020.
>> I'm guessing the latter is what I should have been using?
>=20
> Trying to use that, it seems like it wants to download a state file for=
 *every single RFC* first?

It tries to extract what it thinks are references to RFCs from the
draft, and then checks if it has info about those in cache; otherwise
it will try to get that info.


	Henrik

> Lars
>=20
>=20
> idnits --debug draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt
> idnits 2.16.04
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc-status is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc-wordlist is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfcs-obsoleted is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/downref-exceptions is dated 2020-06-02.=

>=20
> draft-ietf-quic-transport.txt:
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-hamilton-quic-transport-protocol.=
state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-invariants.state is dat=
ed 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-manageability.state is =
dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-recovery.state is dated=
 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-tls.state is dated 2020=
-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-tls.state is dated 2020=
-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-quic-transport.state is date=
d 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud.state=
 is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc0791.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc100.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1007.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1009.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc101.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1010.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1015.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1016.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1018.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc102.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1023.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc103.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1030.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1034.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1036.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1038.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc104.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1043.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1048.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc105.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1050.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1052.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1053.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc106.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1065.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1067.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc107.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1070.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1074.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1079.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc108.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1082.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1086.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1089.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc109.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1090.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1091.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1094.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1095.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc110.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc111.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc112.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc113.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1137.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc114.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1146.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc115.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1151.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc116.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1165.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1166.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc117.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1174.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1178.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1179.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc118.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1185.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc119.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1190.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1191.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1193.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1194.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1197.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc120.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1200.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc121.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc122.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc123.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1232.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1233.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc124.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1242.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1243.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1249.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc125.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1251.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1252.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1258.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc126.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1262.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1264.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1265.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1267.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc127.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1271.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1274.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> Status file /Users/lars/.idnits/rfc1276.state is dated 2020-06-02.
> ....
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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From nobody Tue Jun  2 04:38:10 2020
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 13:37:59 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits dies on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28
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To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>,
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Cc: draft-ietf-quic-transport.all@ietf.org
Message-ID: <ddde8e92-286a-6c95-0f59-8b1e2f9babb4@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits dies on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28
References: <D7CCE2E4-A70B-467A-BDFF-9B973FAE48DA@eggert.org>
 <06FC1E4F-A3EB-4061-8AA9-DB7C78E56E52@eggert.org>
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Hi Lars,

On 2020-06-02 12:37, Lars Eggert wrote:
> On 2020-6-2, at 13:30, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> wrote:
>> idnits seems to die on draft-ietf-quic-transport-28:
>=20

> Related: Which version of idnits is the canonical one? I had been
> using https://pypi.org/project/idnits/ locally, which claims to be
> "idnits 3.0.0" but is from 2018.
>=20
> The tools page at https://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ has version
> 2.16.04, but that is from April 2020.
>=20
> I'm guessing the latter is what I should have been using? (But can we
> then please take down the former?)

Yes, and I'll update the former to indicate that it's an incomplete
prerelease.

	Henrik


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Cc: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-quic-transport.all@ietf.org
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
References: <D7CCE2E4-A70B-467A-BDFF-9B973FAE48DA@eggert.org> <06FC1E4F-A3EB-4061-8AA9-DB7C78E56E52@eggert.org> <F3D1B2FF-D0DA-4396-93C9-6F1743342ADA@eggert.org> <cd693ae8-bf0f-36be-3025-ec399b7881ae@levkowetz.com>
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Hi,

On 2020-6-2, at 14:37, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
>=20
> It tries to extract what it thinks are references to RFCs from the
> draft, and then checks if it has info about those in cache; otherwise
> it will try to get that info.

that's what I thought I remembered it doing, but it sure looks like it =
is getting an awful lot more than those cited. Could you run it at your =
end to confirm?

Thanks,
Lars

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From nobody Thu Jun 11 15:43:56 2020
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From: Samuel Weiler <weiler@w3.org>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] bad chairs addrs on tools pages
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The WG tools pages (e.g. https://tools.ietf.org/wg/capport/)
have links to chaits addrs at tools.ietf.org (e.g. 
capport-chairs@tools.ietf.org), which then bounce.

Perhaps replace with @ietf.org?

-- Sam


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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain


I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions caches
and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard mention
that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?

I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every morning.
If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)

I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop, which
may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing myself.

My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize stuff,
so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to keep
me logged in on both.

If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it loads
faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document page,
which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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From nobody Tue Jun 23 08:29:12 2020
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On 2020-06-23, at 17:23, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> =
wrote:
>=20
> getting logged out regularly of the DT. =20

(DT is not design team, but datatracker, I think.)

I can report the same.  This is not a big problem where the datatracker =
only offers a certain page to logged-in users.  But where the detailed =
options on a page, or even the further processing of an option (draft =
submission!) differ based on whether I=E2=80=99m logged in or not, that =
is an issue.

I would propose to build dt.ietf.org in such a way that it always asks =
the user to login before allowing any access.  datatracker.ietf.org =
could keep its old behavior, so no change for the uninitiated.

(The next question is how often I need to log in, but I don=E2=80=99t =
care because that=E2=80=99s pretty much automatic these days.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
    > I can report the same.  This is not a big problem where the datatrack=
er
    > only offers a certain page to logged-in users.  But where the detailed
    > options on a page, or even the further processing of an option (draft
    > submission!) differ based on whether I=E2=80=99m logged in or not, th=
at is an
    > issue.

I would like all the pages to have all of the buttons, with a login demanded
if I need it.
Yes, that could be confusing if AD-only buttons are presented to non-AD use=
rs.

    > I would propose to build dt.ietf.org in such a way that it always asks
    > the user to login before allowing any access.  datatracker.ietf.org
    > could keep its old behavior, so no change for the uninitiated.

I could live with that, but I'd rather just have some kind of long-term
(stateless) cookie that suggests to the site that I want to be logged in.

=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-

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Hi Micheal -

We did tune memcached quite some time back, and that isn't the issue. 
memcached at the moment (up for 10 days or so) no evictions at all (so 
we're probably a bit overprovisioned).

I have seen logouts myself (one today), but not at an every day rate.

We're looking into what else might be going on that could be causing this.

RjS

On 6/23/20 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson wrote:
> I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions caches
> and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard mention
> that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
> I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?
>
> I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every morning.
> If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)
>
> I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop, which
> may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing myself.
>
> My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
> My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize stuff,
> so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to keep
> me logged in on both.
>
> If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it loads
> faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document page,
> which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.
>
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>   -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org

--------------7637538017B0C59A2C801AE1
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Hi Micheal -</p>
    <p>We did tune memcached quite some time back, and that isn't the
      issue. memcached at the moment (up for 10 days or so) no evictions
      at all (so we're probably a bit overprovisioned).</p>
    <p>I have seen logouts myself (one today), but not at an every day
      rate.</p>
    <p>We're looking into what else might be going on that could be
      causing this.</p>
    <p>RjS<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/23/20 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2119.1592925818@localhost">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions caches
and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard mention
that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?

I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every morning.
If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)

I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop, which
may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing myself.

My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize stuff,
so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to keep
me logged in on both.

If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it loads
faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document page,
which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.

--
Michael Richardson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca">&lt;mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca&gt;</a>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-



</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tools-discuss@ietf.org">Tools-discuss@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss</a>

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:datatracker-project@ietf.org">datatracker-project@ietf.org</a>

Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:webmaster@tools.ietf.org">webmaster@tools.ietf.org</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------7637538017B0C59A2C801AE1--


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Why, when I look at say, ACE, I see:

Past Meetings
interim-2020-ace-06	Mon   2020-05-18		Agenda	Minutes	Materials
interim-2020-ace-07	Mon   2020-06-22		Agenda	Minutes	Materials
interim-2020-ace-05	Wed   2020-04-15		Agenda	Minutes Materials

That is, why is the order 06,07,05?
Is it a bug, or is it sorted by some other criteria I don't understand?

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [




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From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
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I think that is the order that the WG requested the interim sessions.

Russ


> On Jun 23, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> =
wrote:
>=20
> Why, when I look at say, ACE, I see:
>=20
> Past Meetings
> interim-2020-ace-06	Mon   2020-05-18		Agenda	Minutes	=
Materials
> interim-2020-ace-07	Mon   2020-06-22		Agenda	Minutes	=
Materials
> interim-2020-ace-05	Wed   2020-04-15		Agenda	Minutes =
Materials
>=20
> That is, why is the order 06,07,05?
> Is it a bug, or is it sorted by some other criteria I don't =
understand?
>=20
> --
> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh =
networks [
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT =
architect   [
> ]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on =
rails    [
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
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>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
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> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


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--=-=-=
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Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:
    > I think that is the order that the WG requested the interim sessions.

So maybe database order.
What is the right order: meeting name? or date it occured?
Probably date.




--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Message-ID: <3d8a8738-d1fb-696b-ead5-3e806681c2bf@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] logged off of DT
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Hi Michael,

I've identified the point where sessions are lost: with the current sessi=
on
storage, it happens when we deploy a new datatracker release.  I've fixed=

this for the upcoming release.  There will be one more instance of sessio=
n
loss when that release is deployed, but going forward sessions should
survive both httpd restarts and deployment of new datatracker releases.


Best regards,

	Henrik

On 2020-06-23 20:39, Robert Sparks wrote:
> Hi Micheal -
>=20
> We did tune memcached quite some time back, and that isn't the issue.=20
> memcached at the moment (up for 10 days or so) no evictions at all (so =

> we're probably a bit overprovisioned).
>=20
> I have seen logouts myself (one today), but not at an every day rate.
>=20
> We're looking into what else might be going on that could be causing th=
is.
>=20
> RjS
>=20
> On 6/23/20 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions=
 caches
>> and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard me=
ntion
>> that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
>> I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?
>>
>> I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every mo=
rning.
>> If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)
>>
>> I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop,=
 which
>> may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing mys=
elf.
>>
>> My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
>> My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize s=
tuff,
>> so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to=
 keep
>> me logged in on both.
>>
>> If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it load=
s
>> faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document =
page,
>> which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>>   -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] logged off of DT
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The releases line up with when I'd observed with being logged out.

Note that there have been quite a few deployed this month: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/release/

That's not enough to explain being logged out every day, but it is 
enough to explain at least my perception that it was happening alot.

Michael - if you continue to see a high rate of being logged out, please 
let us know (but I'm expecting you won't).

RjS

On 6/24/20 10:48 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I've identified the point where sessions are lost: with the current session
> storage, it happens when we deploy a new datatracker release.  I've fixed
> this for the upcoming release.  There will be one more instance of session
> loss when that release is deployed, but going forward sessions should
> survive both httpd restarts and deployment of new datatracker releases.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> 	Henrik
>
> On 2020-06-23 20:39, Robert Sparks wrote:
>> Hi Micheal -
>>
>> We did tune memcached quite some time back, and that isn't the issue.
>> memcached at the moment (up for 10 days or so) no evictions at all (so
>> we're probably a bit overprovisioned).
>>
>> I have seen logouts myself (one today), but not at an every day rate.
>>
>> We're looking into what else might be going on that could be causing this.
>>
>> RjS
>>
>> On 6/23/20 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson wrote:
>>> I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions caches
>>> and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard mention
>>> that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
>>> I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?
>>>
>>> I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every morning.
>>> If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)
>>>
>>> I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop, which
>>> may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing myself.
>>>
>>> My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
>>> My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize stuff,
>>> so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to keep
>>> me logged in on both.
>>>
>>> If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it loads
>>> faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document page,
>>> which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>>>    -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org

--------------B1BA929272A85E8C35BA1356
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>The releases line up with when I'd observed with being logged
      out.</p>
    <p>Note that there have been quite a few deployed this month:
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/release/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/release/</a></p>
    <p>That's not enough to explain being logged out every day, but it
      is enough to explain at least my perception that it was happening
      alot.</p>
    <p>Michael - if you continue to see a high rate of being logged out,
      please let us know (but I'm expecting you won't).</p>
    <p>RjS<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/24/20 10:48 AM, Henrik Levkowetz
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3d8a8738-d1fb-696b-ead5-3e806681c2bf@levkowetz.com">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Michael,

I've identified the point where sessions are lost: with the current session
storage, it happens when we deploy a new datatracker release.  I've fixed
this for the upcoming release.  There will be one more instance of session
loss when that release is deployed, but going forward sessions should
survive both httpd restarts and deployment of new datatracker releases.


Best regards,

	Henrik

On 2020-06-23 20:39, Robert Sparks wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Micheal -

We did tune memcached quite some time back, and that isn't the issue. 
memcached at the moment (up for 10 days or so) no evictions at all (so 
we're probably a bit overprovisioned).

I have seen logouts myself (one today), but not at an every day rate.

We're looking into what else might be going on that could be causing this.

RjS

On 6/23/20 10:23 AM, Michael Richardson wrote:
</pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think that there was some discussion a few months ago about sessions caches
and getting logged out regularly of the DT.  I thought that I heard mention
that session caches were being expanded to accomodate.
I think that I should maybe open an ietf-action ticket?

I just wanted to say that I am pretty consistently logged out every morning.
If we are being LRU'ed, this is going to hurt during IETF108 :-)

I will add that I log in most days from both my desktop and my laptop, which
may mean I'm using two session cache entries, or maybe I'm LRU'ing myself.

My desktop does *not* change IP addresses... ever.
My laptop does move around, but the browsers in question synchronize stuff,
so if the cookie is not IP address specific, then I would expect it to keep
me logged in on both.

If there were page which I would like more caching on (so that it loads
faster, and/or it loads less often), it would be the tracked document page,
which I use more and more often to get to where I need to do work.

--
Michael Richardson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca">&lt;mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca&gt;</a>, Sandelman Software Works
  -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tools-discuss@ietf.org">Tools-discuss@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss</a>

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:datatracker-project@ietf.org">datatracker-project@ietf.org</a>

Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:webmaster@tools.ietf.org">webmaster@tools.ietf.org</a>
</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">


___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tools-discuss@ietf.org">Tools-discuss@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss</a>

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:datatracker-project@ietf.org">datatracker-project@ietf.org</a>

Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:webmaster@tools.ietf.org">webmaster@tools.ietf.org</a>

</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tools-discuss@ietf.org">Tools-discuss@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss</a>

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:datatracker-project@ietf.org">datatracker-project@ietf.org</a>

Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues">http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues</a>
or send email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:webmaster@tools.ietf.org">webmaster@tools.ietf.org</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:16:12 -0700
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] missing links in draft on tools.ietf.org
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--00000000000068f7fc05a8dafe32
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Hello

My draft-hardt-xauth-protocol drafts are not showing up correctly on
tools.ietf.org

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol

properly redirects to

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol-10

but there are no links to -07, -08, -09 at the top

and any version shows up given the full URL, but 07 - 10 links are not
shown at the top, so someone with a full URL link will not know that -10 is
the latest.

FYI: 07 - 10 where all published close together in time.


/Dick

=E1=90=A7

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello<div><br></div><div>My draft-hardt-xauth-protocol dra=
fts are not showing up correctly on <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org">tools=
.ietf.org</a><br><br><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xau=
th-protocol">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol</a><br>=
<br>properly redirects to<br><br><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-hardt-xauth-protocol-10">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-p=
rotocol-10</a><br><br>but there are no links to -07, -08, -09 at the top<br=
><br>and any version shows up given the full URL, but 07 - 10 links are not=
 shown at the top, so someone with a full URL link will not know that -10 i=
s the latest.<br><div><br></div><div>FYI: 07 - 10 where all published close=
 together in time.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>/Dick</div><div>=
<br></div></div></div><div hspace=3D"streak-pt-mark" style=3D"max-height:1p=
x"><img alt=3D"" style=3D"width:0px;max-height:0px;overflow:hidden" src=3D"=
https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=3DaZGljay5oYXJkdEBnbWFpbC5jb20%3D&a=
mp;type=3Dzerocontent&amp;guid=3D252fbf3d-4734-49ac-b02c-e6528fc2c015"><fon=
t color=3D"#ffffff" size=3D"1">=E1=90=A7</font></div>

--00000000000068f7fc05a8dafe32--


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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain


Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
    > The releases line up with when I'd observed with being logged out.

    > Note that there have been quite a few deployed this month:
    > https://datatracker.ietf.org/release/

    > That's not enough to explain being logged out every day, but it is enough to
    > explain at least my perception that it was happening alot.

So it could be that I find myself logged out on laptop and then the next day
logged out on desktop (due to the same server restart).  It is also possible
that I go a few days with the same tab open, reading something.

    > Michael - if you continue to see a high rate of being logged out, please let
    > us know (but I'm expecting you won't).

Thank you!

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From nobody Wed Jun 24 19:15:21 2020
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Draft RFP SoW for "Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing tools"
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In support of the work of the Tools Architecture and Strategy Team =
(TAS), an RFP will be issued for a "Review of the current landscape of =
IETF document processing tools".  A draft SoW is below and I welcome =
your comments/feedback on it.

Jay


# Overview
The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools =
that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community to =
work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset about =
these tools, including technical details, maintenance processes, =
licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of the =
document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool supports.

# Deliverables

## Dataset
This data is to be presented in a table using simple scales and =
classifications in addition to any supporting narrative.  For example, =
for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL v3, Proprietary, =
BSD-like" and more.

The data to be collected is:

1.  A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at =
https://tools.ietf.org and other tools that are not listed there but are =
known to be in use.   The contractor will be responsible for drawing up =
the list, which will then be reviewed, possibly iterated and approved.

2.  Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool

3.  The licensing of the tool (simple classification)

4.  The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS, =
packages, containers, etc)

5.  How each tool is maintained, including
- where the source code is located
- how issues are raised (simple classification)
- the level of version control and release management in use (on a =
simple scale)
- how comprehensive the test coverage is (on a simple scale)=20
- the form of testing framework in use (simple classification)

6.  A subjective assessment of the current maintained state of the tool =
(on a simple scale)

6.  A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a simple =
scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.

7.  What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tools covers.

## Document lifecycle
As part of this work, the contractor will need to construct a model of =
the IETF document lifecycle including document production (authoring, =
review, format conversion, etc), document access (download tools, search =
tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, etc).  This is =
only to cover the work carried out by the IETF community and not the =
work of the RFC Production Centre.

There are no templates for this model and it is expected that there will =
be two or three review and and change cycles.

## Coverage map
The information collected above is additionally to be presented in some =
form of map showing each tool and each stage, the coverage of each stage =
in the lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the suitability of =
each tool.




--=20
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org


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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 13:19:19 +1000
From: "Martin Thomson" <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: "Jay Daley" <jay@ietf.org>, tools-arch@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss]  =?utf-8?q?=5BTools-arch=5D_Draft_RFP_SoW_for_=22?= =?utf-8?q?Review_of_the_current_landscape_of_IETF_document_processing_too?= =?utf-8?b?bHMi?=
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Thanks Jay,

I realize that while I might provide some of this list, I am completely unaware of the extent of it.  But this seems achievable in a relatively short time-scale.

I might prefer to see more details on how the contractor manages the work product.  Specifically, I think that this should be a relatively open process during which tool maintainers can see the assessment and make factual corrections.  A public document or repository might be a good way to ensure that contributions of this sort are easy - and getting those contributions might greatly simplify the process.

Is your intent to include the set of tools employed by the RPC in this?  I think that would be good, but it appears that you intentionally chose "used by the IETF community".

Nits:

Two items are numbered 6.

"and and" in "two or three review and and change cycles"

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020, at 12:15, Jay Daley wrote:
> In support of the work of the Tools Architecture and Strategy Team 
> (TAS), an RFP will be issued for a "Review of the current landscape of 
> IETF document processing tools".  A draft SoW is below and I welcome 
> your comments/feedback on it.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> # Overview
> The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools 
> that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community 
> to work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset 
> about these tools, including technical details, maintenance processes, 
> licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of the 
> document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool supports.
> 
> # Deliverables
> 
> ## Dataset
> This data is to be presented in a table using simple scales and 
> classifications in addition to any supporting narrative.  For example, 
> for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL v3, 
> Proprietary, BSD-like" and more.
> 
> The data to be collected is:
> 
> 1.  A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at 
> https://tools.ietf.org and other tools that are not listed there but 
> are known to be in use.   The contractor will be responsible for 
> drawing up the list, which will then be reviewed, possibly iterated and 
> approved.
> 
> 2.  Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool
> 
> 3.  The licensing of the tool (simple classification)
> 
> 4.  The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS, 
> packages, containers, etc)
> 
> 5.  How each tool is maintained, including
> - where the source code is located
> - how issues are raised (simple classification)
> - the level of version control and release management in use (on a simple scale)
> - how comprehensive the test coverage is (on a simple scale) 
> - the form of testing framework in use (simple classification)
> 
> 6.  A subjective assessment of the current maintained state of the tool 
> (on a simple scale)
> 
> 6.  A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a 
> simple scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.
> 
> 7.  What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tools covers.
> 
> ## Document lifecycle
> As part of this work, the contractor will need to construct a model of 
> the IETF document lifecycle including document production (authoring, 
> review, format conversion, etc), document access (download tools, 
> search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, etc).  
> This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF community and 
> not the work of the RFC Production Centre.
> 
> There are no templates for this model and it is expected that there 
> will be two or three review and and change cycles.
> 
> ## Coverage map
> The information collected above is additionally to be presented in some 
> form of map showing each tool and each stage, the coverage of each 
> stage in the lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the suitability 
> of each tool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> jay@ietf.org
> 
> -- 
> Tools-arch mailing list
> Tools-arch@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch
>


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> On 25/06/2020, at 3:19 PM, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:
>=20
> Thanks Jay,
>=20
> I realize that while I might provide some of this list, I am =
completely unaware of the extent of it.  But this seems achievable in a =
relatively short time-scale.
>=20
> I might prefer to see more details on how the contractor manages the =
work product.  Specifically, I think that this should be a relatively =
open process during which tool maintainers can see the assessment and =
make factual corrections.

That=E2=80=99s a good point yes - I will add that.

>  A public document or repository might be a good way to ensure that =
contributions of this sort are easy - and getting those contributions =
might greatly simplify the process.

I think if we limit it to tool maintainers contributing then that will =
work well

>=20
> Is your intent to include the set of tools employed by the RPC in =
this?  I think that would be good, but it appears that you intentionally =
chose "used by the IETF community".

My intent was to exclude tools that the community is not free to use.  I =
think the main tool the RPC use is xml2rfc and that is free for the =
community to use and so I would expect that to be included. =20

Jay

>=20
> Nits:
>=20
> Two items are numbered 6.
>=20
> "and and" in "two or three review and and change cycles"
>=20
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020, at 12:15, Jay Daley wrote:
>> In support of the work of the Tools Architecture and Strategy Team=20
>> (TAS), an RFP will be issued for a "Review of the current landscape =
of=20
>> IETF document processing tools".  A draft SoW is below and I welcome=20=

>> your comments/feedback on it.
>>=20
>> Jay
>>=20
>>=20
>> # Overview
>> The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools=20=

>> that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community=20=

>> to work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset=20
>> about these tools, including technical details, maintenance =
processes,=20
>> licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of the=20
>> document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool =
supports.
>>=20
>> # Deliverables
>>=20
>> ## Dataset
>> This data is to be presented in a table using simple scales and=20
>> classifications in addition to any supporting narrative.  For =
example,=20
>> for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL v3,=20
>> Proprietary, BSD-like" and more.
>>=20
>> The data to be collected is:
>>=20
>> 1.  A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at=20
>> https://tools.ietf.org and other tools that are not listed there but=20=

>> are known to be in use.   The contractor will be responsible for=20
>> drawing up the list, which will then be reviewed, possibly iterated =
and=20
>> approved.
>>=20
>> 2.  Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool
>>=20
>> 3.  The licensing of the tool (simple classification)
>>=20
>> 4.  The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS,=20=

>> packages, containers, etc)
>>=20
>> 5.  How each tool is maintained, including
>> - where the source code is located
>> - how issues are raised (simple classification)
>> - the level of version control and release management in use (on a =
simple scale)
>> - how comprehensive the test coverage is (on a simple scale)=20
>> - the form of testing framework in use (simple classification)
>>=20
>> 6.  A subjective assessment of the current maintained state of the =
tool=20
>> (on a simple scale)
>>=20
>> 6.  A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a=20
>> simple scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.
>>=20
>> 7.  What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tools =
covers.
>>=20
>> ## Document lifecycle
>> As part of this work, the contractor will need to construct a model =
of=20
>> the IETF document lifecycle including document production (authoring,=20=

>> review, format conversion, etc), document access (download tools,=20
>> search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, =
etc). =20
>> This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF community and=20=

>> not the work of the RFC Production Centre.
>>=20
>> There are no templates for this model and it is expected that there=20=

>> will be two or three review and and change cycles.
>>=20
>> ## Coverage map
>> The information collected above is additionally to be presented in =
some=20
>> form of map showing each tool and each stage, the coverage of each=20
>> stage in the lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the =
suitability=20
>> of each tool.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Jay Daley
>> IETF Executive Director
>> jay@ietf.org
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Tools-arch mailing list
>> Tools-arch@ietf.org <mailto:Tools-arch@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch>
>>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Tools-arch mailing list
> Tools-arch@ietf.org <mailto:Tools-arch@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch>
--=20
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org


--Apple-Mail=_E34DFA2C-E87D-423F-83FE-1AF69D8361E0
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 25/06/2020, at 3:19 PM, Martin Thomson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mt@lowentropy.net" class=3D"">mt@lowentropy.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Thanks Jay,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I realize that while I might =
provide some of this list, I am completely unaware of the extent of it. =
&nbsp;But this seems achievable in a relatively short =
time-scale.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I might =
prefer to see more details on how the contractor manages the work =
product. &nbsp;Specifically, I think that this should be a relatively =
open process during which tool maintainers can see the assessment and =
make factual corrections.</span></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>That=E2=80=99s a good point yes - I will add =
that.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""> &nbsp;A =
public document or repository might be a good way to ensure that =
contributions of this sort are easy - and getting those contributions =
might greatly simplify the process.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I think if we limit it to tool maintainers =
contributing then that will work well</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Is your intent to include the set of tools employed by the =
RPC in this? &nbsp;I think that would be good, but it appears that you =
intentionally chose "used by the IETF community".</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>My intent =
was to exclude tools that the community is not free to use. &nbsp;I =
think the main tool the RPC use is xml2rfc and that is free for the =
community to use and so I would expect that to be included. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Jay</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Nits:</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Two items are numbered =
6.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"and and" in =
"two or three review and and change cycles"</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">On Thu, Jun 25, 2020, at 12:15, =
Jay Daley wrote:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">In support of the work of the Tools =
Architecture and Strategy Team<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">(TAS), an =
RFP will be issued for a "Review of the current landscape of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">IETF =
document processing tools". &nbsp;A draft SoW is below and I =
welcome<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">your comments/feedback on it.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Jay<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""># Overview<br =
class=3D"">The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape =
of tools<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF =
community<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">to work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a =
dataset<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">about these tools, including technical details, maintenance =
processes,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of =
the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool =
supports.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""># Deliverables<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">## Dataset<br class=3D"">This data is to be presented in a =
table using simple scales and<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">classifications in addition to any supporting narrative. =
&nbsp;For example,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL =
v3,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">Proprietary, BSD-like" and more.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The data to be collected is:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">1. =
&nbsp;A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org</a> =
and other tools that are not listed there but<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">are known to =
be in use. &nbsp;&nbsp;The contractor will be responsible for<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">drawing up =
the list, which will then be reviewed, possibly iterated and<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">approved.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">2. &nbsp;Details of the maintainer(s) of each =
tool<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">3. &nbsp;The licensing of the tool =
(simple classification)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">4. &nbsp;The =
technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">packages, =
containers, etc)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">5. &nbsp;How each tool is =
maintained, including<br class=3D"">- where the source code is =
located<br class=3D"">- how issues are raised (simple classification)<br =
class=3D"">- the level of version control and release management in use =
(on a simple scale)<br class=3D"">- how comprehensive the test coverage =
is (on a simple scale)<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">- the form =
of testing framework in use (simple classification)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">6. &nbsp;A subjective assessment of the current maintained =
state of the tool<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">(on a simple scale)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">6. &nbsp;A =
subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">simple =
scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">7. =
&nbsp;What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tools =
covers.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">## Document lifecycle<br =
class=3D"">As part of this work, the contractor will need to construct a =
model of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">the IETF document lifecycle including document production =
(authoring,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">review, format conversion, etc), document access (download =
tools,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain =
parts, etc). &nbsp;<br class=3D"">This is only to cover the work carried =
out by the IETF community and<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">not the work =
of the RFC Production Centre.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">There are no =
templates for this model and it is expected that there<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">will be two =
or three review and and change cycles.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">## =
Coverage map<br class=3D"">The information collected above is =
additionally to be presented in some<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">form of map =
showing each tool and each stage, the coverage of each<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">stage in the =
lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the suitability<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">of each =
tool.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">Jay Daley<br class=3D"">IETF Executive Director<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:jay@ietf.org" class=3D"">jay@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">Tools-arch =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tools-arch@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Tools-arch@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch</a><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br=
 style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Tools-arch mailing =
list</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tools-arch@ietf.org" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Tools-arch@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-arch</a></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div>--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Jay Daley</div><div>IETF =
Executive Director<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:jay@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">jay@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Draft RFP SoW for "Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing tools"
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Thanks for all of your comments.  A revised version of the SoW is below, =
which will go to RFP unless I hear anything else.

Thanks to Russ for pointing out that these lists may include people who =
wish to bid for this RFP. and so please note that if this applies to you =
then you should either not provide any comment on the SoW, or declare =
that when providing comment.=20

Jay

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=20
# SoW - Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing =
tools

## Overview

The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools =
that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community to =
work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset about =
these tools, including technical details, maintenance processes, =
licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of the =
document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool supports.


## Deliverables

### Deliverable 1 - Dataset

A dataset about the tools containing a combination of text, simple =
scales, simple classifications and supporting narrative.  For example, =
for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL v3, Proprietary, =
BSD-like" and more.

The dataset is to be provided as raw data in CSV format.

The data to be collected for the dataset is:

1. A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at =
https://tools.ietf.org and other tools that are not listed there but are =
known to be in use.=20
2. Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool
3. The licensing of the tool (simple classification)
4. The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS, =
packages, containers, etc)
5. How each tool is maintained, including
    1. where the source code is located
    2. how issues are raised (simple classification)
    3. the level of version control and release management in use (on a =
simple scale)
    4. how comprehensive the test coverage is (on a simple scale)=20
    5. the form of testing framework in use (simple classification)
6. A subjective assessment of the current maintained state of the tool =
(on a simple scale)
7. A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a simple =
scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.
8. What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tool covers.


### Deliverable 2 -  Document lifecycle

A model of the IETF document lifecycle including document production =
(authoring, review, format conversion, etc), document access (download =
tools, search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, =
etc).  This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF community =
and not the work of the RFC Production Centre.

There are no templates for this model nor any existing work to build =
upon and so it is expected that this will be entirely new.=20


### Deliverable 3 - Coverage map

Some form of coverage map/infographic showing each tool and each stage =
of the document lifecycle, the coverage of each stage in the lifecycle =
and the subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool.  This =
coverage map should allow at-a-glance understanding of the coverage of =
each stage and each tool including stages covered by multiple tools and =
stages not covered by any tool.

This coverage map is to be supplied in any common vector format.


## Requirements

### Selecting the tools to assess

The contractor will be responsible for drawing up the list of tools to =
be included for approval by the IETF LLC.


### Review and transparency

The IETF is committed to transparency and community engagement and so =
requires this work to be carried out as follows:

1. All three deliverables are to be developed using a public repository =
so that interested parties can see the work as it unfolds.
2. The initial list of tools proposed by the contractor will go out for =
community comment and potentially revised before the final version is =
presented for approval.
3. The maintainers of the tools are to be given every opportunity to =
recommend changes to the data and the assessments within (though the =
contractor retains the final say in what data they choose to include in =
the deliverable), which means:
    1. Any issues or pull requests raised by maintainers on the =
repository are to be considered and responded to.
    2. Once the initial version of the dataset is complete, it will go =
out for community comment and potentially revised.


### Work of the RFC Production Center

The RFC Production Center (RPC) is solely responsible for two steps in =
the document lifecycle:

1. The publication of the RFC, which uses a number of internal tools to =
manage references, assign DOIs and more.=20
2. The conversion of the XML RFC into the long term ar PDF/A format for =
long term archive, which uses commercial software.=20

The tools used solely for the two processes above are not within scope =
for this RFP but these steps should appear in the document lifecycle and =
coverage map.


## Additional Details

None.
=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=20


--=20
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org


--Apple-Mail=_42C7F47E-FD83-4CD4-AFEE-065B645BD888
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for all of your comments. &nbsp;A revised version of =
the SoW is below, which will go to RFP unless I hear anything =
else.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks =
to Russ for pointing out that these lists may include people who wish to =
bid for this RFP. and so please note that if this applies to you then =
you should either not provide any comment on the SoW, or declare that =
when providing comment.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Jay</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94=E2=80=94&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""># SoW - Review of the current landscape of =
IETF document processing tools</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">## Overview</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF seeks a contractor to review =
the current landscape of tools that have been specifically designed to =
be used by the IETF community to work with IETF documents (I-Ds and =
RFCs) and to build a dataset about these tools, including technical =
details, maintenance processes, licensing and others, and further to =
determine what parts of the document production, management and usage =
lifecycle each tool supports.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">## =
Deliverables</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">###=
 Deliverable 1 - Dataset</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">A dataset about the tools containing a combination of text, =
simple scales, simple classifications and supporting narrative. =
&nbsp;For example, for licensing, a simple classification may include =
"GPL v3, Proprietary, BSD-like" and more.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The dataset is to be provided as raw =
data in CSV format.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The data to be collected for the dataset is:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1. A full catalog of =
tools, including all the relevant tools at <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org" class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org</a> =
and other tools that are not listed there but are known to be in =
use.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">2. Details of the maintainer(s) of each =
tool</div><div class=3D"">3. The licensing of the tool (simple =
classification)</div><div class=3D"">4. The technical environment each =
tool is intended to work in (OS, packages, containers, etc)</div><div =
class=3D"">5. How each tool is maintained, including</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. where the source code is located</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. how issues are raised (simple =
classification)</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. the level of =
version control and release management in use (on a simple =
scale)</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. how comprehensive the test =
coverage is (on a simple scale)&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
5. the form of testing framework in use (simple =
classification)</div><div class=3D"">6. A subjective assessment of the =
current maintained state of the tool (on a simple scale)</div><div =
class=3D"">7. A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool =
(on a simple scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.</div><div class=3D"">8.=
 What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tool =
covers.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### Deliverable 2 - &nbsp;Document =
lifecycle</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A =
model of the IETF document lifecycle including document production =
(authoring, review, format conversion, etc), document access (download =
tools, search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, =
etc). &nbsp;This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF =
community and not the work of the RFC Production Centre.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There are no templates =
for this model nor any existing work to build upon and so it is expected =
that this will be entirely new.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### =
Deliverable 3 - Coverage map</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Some form of coverage map/infographic =
showing each tool and each stage of the document lifecycle, the coverage =
of each stage in the lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the =
suitability of each tool. &nbsp;This coverage map should allow =
at-a-glance understanding of the coverage of each stage and each tool =
including stages covered by multiple tools and stages not covered by any =
tool.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This =
coverage map is to be supplied in any common vector format.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">## Requirements</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">### Selecting the tools to assess</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The contractor will be responsible for =
drawing up the list of tools to be included for approval by the IETF =
LLC.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### Review and transparency</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF is committed to =
transparency and community engagement and so requires this work to be =
carried out as follows:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1. All three deliverables are to be developed using a public =
repository so that interested parties can see the work as it =
unfolds.</div><div class=3D"">2. The initial list of tools proposed by =
the contractor will go out for community comment and potentially revised =
before the final version is presented for approval.</div><div =
class=3D"">3. The maintainers of the tools are to be given every =
opportunity to recommend changes to the data and the assessments within =
(though the contractor retains the final say in what data they choose to =
include in the deliverable), which means:</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; 1. Any issues or pull requests raised by maintainers on the =
repository are to be considered and responded to.</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Once the initial version of the dataset is =
complete, it will go out for community comment and potentially =
revised.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### Work of the RFC Production =
Center</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The RFC =
Production Center (RPC) is solely responsible for two steps in the =
document lifecycle:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1. The publication of the RFC, which uses a number of =
internal tools to manage references, assign DOIs and =
more.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">2. The conversion of the XML RFC into =
the long term ar PDF/A format for long term archive, which uses =
commercial software.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The tools used solely for the two processes above are not =
within scope for this RFP but these steps should appear in the document =
lifecycle and coverage map.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">## Additional =
Details</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">None.</div></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94=E2=80=94&nbsp;</div>=
<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div>--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Jay Daley</div><div>IETF =
Executive Director<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:jay@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">jay@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_42C7F47E-FD83-4CD4-AFEE-065B645BD888--


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From: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Draft RFP SoW for "Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing tools"
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	charset=utf-8

Sorry, some minor changes, please use this version and please remember =
that if you wish to bid for the RFP then you should either not provide =
any comment on the SoW, or declare that when providing comment.=20

Jay

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=20
# SoW - Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing =
tools

## Overview

The IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools =
that have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community to =
work with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset about =
these tools, including technical details, maintenance processes, =
licensing and others, and further to determine what parts of the =
document production, management and usage lifecycle each tool supports.


## Deliverables

### Deliverable 1 - Dataset

A dataset about the tools containing a combination of text, simple =
scales, simple classifications and supporting narrative.  For example, =
for licensing, a simple classification may include "GPL v3, Proprietary, =
BSD-like" and more.

The dataset is to be provided as raw data in CSV format.

The data to be collected for the dataset is:

1. A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools at =
https://tools.ietf.org and other tools that are not listed there but are =
known to be in use.=20
2. Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool
3. The licensing of the tool (simple classification)
4. The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS, =
packages, containers, etc)
5. How each tool is maintained, including
    1. where the source code is located
    2. how issues are raised (simple classification)
    3. the level of version control and release management in use (on a =
simple scale)
    4. how comprehensive the test coverage is (on a simple scale)=20
    5. the form of testing framework in use (simple classification)
6. A subjective assessment of the current maintained state of the tool =
(on a simple scale)
7. A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool (on a simple =
scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.
8. What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tool covers.


### Deliverable 2 -  Document lifecycle

A model of the IETF document lifecycle including document production =
(authoring, review, format conversion, etc), document access (download =
tools, search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, =
etc).  This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF community =
and not the work of the RFC Production Centre.

There are no templates for this model nor any existing work to build =
upon and so it is expected that this will be entirely new.=20


### Deliverable 3 - Coverage map

Some form of coverage map/infographic showing each tool and each stage =
of the document lifecycle, the coverage of each stage in the lifecycle =
and the subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool.  This =
coverage map should allow at-a-glance understanding of the coverage of =
each stage and each tool including stages covered by multiple tools and =
stages not covered by any tool.

This coverage map is to be supplied in any common vector format.


## Requirements

### Selecting the tools to assess

The contractor will be responsible for drawing up the list of tools to =
be included for approval by the IETF LLC.


### Review and transparency

The IETF is committed to transparency and community engagement and so =
requires this work to be carried out as follows:

1. All three deliverables are to be developed using a public repository =
so that interested parties can see the work as it unfolds.
2. The initial list of tools proposed by the contractor will go out for =
community comment and the contractor will need to consider the feedback =
and potentially revise the list before the final version is presented =
for approval.
3. The maintainers of the tools are to be given every opportunity to =
recommend changes to the data and the assessments within (though the =
contractor retains the final say in what data they choose to include in =
the deliverable), which means:
    1. Any issues or pull requests raised by maintainers on the =
repository are to be considered and responded to.
    2. Once the initial version of the dataset is complete, it will go =
out for community comment and the contractor will need to consider the =
feedback and potentially revise the dataset before the final version is =
delivered.
4. The initial versions of the document lifecycle and coverage map will =
also go out for community feedback and the contractor will need to =
consider the feedback and potentially revise these before the final =
versions are delivered.


### Work of the RFC Production Center

The RFC Production Center (RPC) is solely responsible for two steps in =
the document lifecycle:

1. The publication of the RFC, which uses a number of internal tools to =
manage references, assign DOIs and more.=20
2. The conversion of the XML RFC into the long term ar PDF/A format for =
long term archive, which uses commercial software.=20

The tools used solely for the two processes above are not within scope =
for this RFP but these steps should appear in the document lifecycle and =
coverage map.


## Additional Details

None.

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=20


--=20
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
jay@ietf.org


--Apple-Mail=_6511DE79-4053-446A-B6A9-5E5BB0047196
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sorry, some minor changes, please use this version and please =
remember that if you wish to bid for the RFP then you should either not =
provide any comment on the SoW, or declare that when providing =
comment.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Jay<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94=E2=80=94&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">#=
 SoW - Review of the current landscape of IETF document processing =
tools</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">## =
Overview</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
IETF seeks a contractor to review the current landscape of tools that =
have been specifically designed to be used by the IETF community to work =
with IETF documents (I-Ds and RFCs) and to build a dataset about these =
tools, including technical details, maintenance processes, licensing and =
others, and further to determine what parts of the document production, =
management and usage lifecycle each tool supports.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">## Deliverables</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">### Deliverable 1 - Dataset</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A dataset about the tools containing a =
combination of text, simple scales, simple classifications and =
supporting narrative. &nbsp;For example, for licensing, a simple =
classification may include "GPL v3, Proprietary, BSD-like" and =
more.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
dataset is to be provided as raw data in CSV format.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The data to be collected =
for the dataset is:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1. A full catalog of tools, including all the relevant tools =
at <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org</a> and other tools that are not =
listed there but are known to be in use.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">2. =
Details of the maintainer(s) of each tool</div><div class=3D"">3. The =
licensing of the tool (simple classification)</div><div class=3D"">4. =
The technical environment each tool is intended to work in (OS, =
packages, containers, etc)</div><div class=3D"">5. How each tool is =
maintained, including</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. where the =
source code is located</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. how issues =
are raised (simple classification)</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. =
the level of version control and release management in use (on a simple =
scale)</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. how comprehensive the test =
coverage is (on a simple scale)&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
5. the form of testing framework in use (simple =
classification)</div><div class=3D"">6. A subjective assessment of the =
current maintained state of the tool (on a simple scale)</div><div =
class=3D"">7. A subjective assessment of the suitability of each tool =
(on a simple scale), based on 3, 4, 5 and 6 above.</div><div class=3D"">8.=
 What stages of the document lifecycle (see below) each tool =
covers.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### Deliverable 2 - &nbsp;Document =
lifecycle</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A =
model of the IETF document lifecycle including document production =
(authoring, review, format conversion, etc), document access (download =
tools, search tools, etc) and document usage (extracting certain parts, =
etc). &nbsp;This is only to cover the work carried out by the IETF =
community and not the work of the RFC Production Centre.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There are no templates =
for this model nor any existing work to build upon and so it is expected =
that this will be entirely new.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### =
Deliverable 3 - Coverage map</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Some form of coverage map/infographic =
showing each tool and each stage of the document lifecycle, the coverage =
of each stage in the lifecycle and the subjective assessment of the =
suitability of each tool. &nbsp;This coverage map should allow =
at-a-glance understanding of the coverage of each stage and each tool =
including stages covered by multiple tools and stages not covered by any =
tool.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This =
coverage map is to be supplied in any common vector format.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">## Requirements</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">### Selecting the tools to assess</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The contractor will be responsible for =
drawing up the list of tools to be included for approval by the IETF =
LLC.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### Review and transparency</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The IETF is committed to =
transparency and community engagement and so requires this work to be =
carried out as follows:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1. All three deliverables are to be developed using a public =
repository so that interested parties can see the work as it =
unfolds.</div><div class=3D"">2. The initial list of tools proposed by =
the contractor will go out for community comment and the contractor will =
need to consider the feedback and potentially revise the list before the =
final version is presented for approval.</div><div class=3D"">3. The =
maintainers of the tools are to be given every opportunity to recommend =
changes to the data and the assessments within (though the contractor =
retains the final say in what data they choose to include in the =
deliverable), which means:</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Any =
issues or pull requests raised by maintainers on the repository are to =
be considered and responded to.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. =
Once the initial version of the dataset is complete, it will go out for =
community comment and the contractor will need to consider the feedback =
and potentially revise the dataset before the final version is =
delivered.</div><div class=3D"">4. The initial versions of the document =
lifecycle and coverage map will also go out for community feedback and =
the contractor will need to consider the feedback and potentially revise =
these before the final versions are delivered.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">### =
Work of the RFC Production Center</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The RFC Production Center (RPC) is =
solely responsible for two steps in the document lifecycle:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1. The publication of =
the RFC, which uses a number of internal tools to manage references, =
assign DOIs and more.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">2. The conversion of =
the XML RFC into the long term ar PDF/A format for long term archive, =
which uses commercial software.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The tools used solely for the two =
processes above are not within scope for this RFP but these steps should =
appear in the document lifecycle and coverage map.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">## Additional Details</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">None.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94=E2=80=94&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div>--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Jay Daley</div><div>IETF =
Executive Director<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:jay@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">jay@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_6511DE79-4053-446A-B6A9-5E5BB0047196--


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] GitHub Actions support for template
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Anyone using the latest version of https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template will get support for GitHub Actions.

The main advantage of this addition is that you don't need to setup CI to get an automatically updated Editor's Copy.  So no more messing around with tokens and separate systems.

Not all of the features are thoroughly tested, but you should be able to check the status of commits and pull requests, and submit new drafts to the Datatracker by applying a tag.  I haven't verified issue and pull request archiving, and it's a bit slower than using Circle CI, but I think that the convenience more than makes up for that shortcoming.


From nobody Fri Jun 26 08:44:44 2020
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This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a report =
the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e., =
newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
 =20
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf

I have no further data at this time.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


From nobody Fri Jun 26 09:51:32 2020
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2020 18:51:23 +0200
From: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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Hi,

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 05:44:35PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a report
> the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e.,
> newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
>   
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf
> 
> I have no further data at this time.

I can confirm this for evince in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with current updates:

    $ evince --version
    GNOME Document Viewer 3.28.4
    $ evince rfc8798.pdf 
    Segmentation fault (core dumped)

CVE-2019-1010006 should be fixed there, too, see:
https://usn.ubuntu.com/4067-1/

The apport report shows a SIGSEGV during a function to free a string,
just as it did back in 2019 when the first RFC PDFs from xml2rfc v3 were
published:

    evince crashed with SIGSEGV in g_string_free()

Sadly my Ubuntu bug report from back then has disappeared, so I cannot
provide a reference.  Perhaps they did understand that this kind of
program behavior has security implications. ;-)

I have opened a new bug report for this file:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1885313

Back then I noticed the problem with RFC 8655.  This problem still exists
(a further hint that my original bug report might have been hidden
because it may point to a still open security vulnerability):

    $ evince rfc8655.pdf 
    Segmentation fault (core dumped)

There were more PDF renderings of RFCs evince could not handle (or rather
cannot handle since) then, e.g. RFC 8650 and RFC 8651:

    $ evince rfc8650.pdf 
    Segmentation fault (core dumped)
    $ evince rfc8651.pdf 
    Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Those examples and more were included in my 2019 Ubuntu bug report.

Thanks,
Erik
-- 
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability.
                        -- Edsger W. Dijkstra


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I just opened that file with three different viewers.  They all worked.

Russ


> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>=20
> This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a report =
the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e., =
newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
>=20
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf
>=20
> I have no further data at this time.
>=20
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:32:14 +0200
From: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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Hi,

while MuPDF can open and display the file, it produces many instances of
two  messages (one error, one warning):

    $ mupdf rfc8798.pdf
    error: Unable to read ICC workflow
    warning: Attempt to read Output Intent failed
    [...]

For every page, a new burst of several instances of the above two messages
is printed.

Firefox displays the PDF file.

The GNOME Document Viewer (evince) crashes.

There are other PDF renderings of RFCs that crash evince, e.g., RFCs 8651
to 8655.  Those produce the same messages with MuPDF as RFC 8798, but MuPDF
does display them.  Both Firefox's and Chrome's built-in PDF viewers can
display those PDF renderings of RFCs.

I agree with Carsten that this is a bug in evince, but evince works fine
for most PDF files out there, including many that Firefox cannot display
correctly.  Since MuPDF produces error and warning messages, and evince
crashes, it seems to me as if it were likely that the PDF versions of
recent RFCs do have issues.

Thanks,
Erik

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 02:02:20PM -0400, Russ Housley wrote:
> I just opened that file with three different viewers.  They all worked.
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> > On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> > 
> > This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a report the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e., newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
> > 
> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf
> > 
> > I have no further data at this time.
> > 
> > Grüße, Carsten


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> wrote:
    > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 05:44:35PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote:
    >> This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a repo=
rt
    >> the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e.=
,
    >> newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
    >>
    >> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf
    >>
    >> I have no further data at this time.

    > I can confirm this for evince in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with current updat=
es:

and for evince GNOME Document Viewer 3.30.2 for me.
on Devuan Beowulf (same as Debian Bullseye) on amd64.
Chrome's built-in viewer did not crash.

    > CVE-2019-1010006 should be fixed there, too, see:
    > https://usn.ubuntu.com/4067-1/

Thanks.

    > There were more PDF renderings of RFCs evince could not handle (or r=
ather
    > cannot handle since) then, e.g. RFC 8650 and RFC 8651:

    > $ evince rfc8650.pdf
    > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
    > $ evince rfc8651.pdf
    > Segmentation fault (core dumped)

:-(

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From nobody Mon Jun 29 11:19:18 2020
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From: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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Hi all,

as another data point, the AUTH48 versions of the PDF rendering of
RFC 8792 worked fine in evince.  Viewing them in MuPDF did not produce
any error or warning messages.

The published version of the PDF does crash evince, and produce error
and warning messages (as below) in MuPDF.

As an obvious difference between the two files, the published PDF
embeds the XML version of the RFC, while the AUTH48 versions did not.

Thanks,
Erik

On 26.06.20 22:32, Erik Auerswald wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> while MuPDF can open and display the file, it produces many instances of
> two  messages (one error, one warning):
> 
>      $ mupdf rfc8798.pdf
>      error: Unable to read ICC workflow
>      warning: Attempt to read Output Intent failed
>      [...]
> 
> For every page, a new burst of several instances of the above two messages
> is printed.
> 
> Firefox displays the PDF file.
> 
> The GNOME Document Viewer (evince) crashes.
> 
> There are other PDF renderings of RFCs that crash evince, e.g., RFCs 8651
> to 8655.  Those produce the same messages with MuPDF as RFC 8798, but MuPDF
> does display them.  Both Firefox's and Chrome's built-in PDF viewers can
> display those PDF renderings of RFCs.
> 
> I agree with Carsten that this is a bug in evince, but evince works fine
> for most PDF files out there, including many that Firefox cannot display
> correctly.  Since MuPDF produces error and warning messages, and evince
> crashes, it seems to me as if it were likely that the PDF versions of
> recent RFCs do have issues.
> 
> Thanks,
> Erik
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 02:02:20PM -0400, Russ Housley wrote:
>> I just opened that file with three different viewers.  They all worked.
>>
>> Russ
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is undoubtedly a bug in the viewer, but I have received a report the PDF viewer evince (tested with versions 3.30.2 and 3.36.5, i.e., newer than CVE-2019-1010006) crashes when trying to view:
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8798.pdf
>>>
>>> I have no further data at this time.
>>>
>>> Grüße, Carsten


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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In article <20200626203214.GA16307@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> you write:
>I agree with Carsten that this is a bug in evince, but evince works fine
>for most PDF files out there, including many that Firefox cannot display
>correctly.  Since MuPDF produces error and warning messages, and evince
>crashes, it seems to me as if it were likely that the PDF versions of
>recent RFCs do have issues.

The PDF versions of our RFCs are in the PDF/A-3U profile of PDF. PDF/A
is intended to be bitrot-resistant, with no external references and
such, and the various subprofiles allow various options.  We take
the output of xml2rfc and run it through a commercial package from
Callas software to embed the XML and make it PDF/A compliant.

In my experience, open source software that handles complex formats
like PDF is pretty flaky around the edges, particularly when dealing
with featuers like embdded files that aren't very common.

All of our PDFs work fine in Acrobat and the Apple and Google viewers
so I doubt that the files are bad.

As a workaround, if you run the XML through "xml2rfc --pdf" you'll get
a version without the embedded file which is less likely to trip over
bugs in the processing software.

R's,
John


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From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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In article <3385823f-b484-ad6f-f780-c581edd1b2fe@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> you write:
>Hi all,
>
>as another data point, the AUTH48 versions of the PDF rendering of
>RFC 8792 worked fine in evince.  Viewing them in MuPDF did not produce
>any error or warning messages.
>
>The published version of the PDF does crash evince, and produce error
>and warning messages (as below) in MuPDF.
>
>As an obvious difference between the two files, the published PDF
>embeds the XML version of the RFC, while the AUTH48 versions did not.

Right -- that's a pretty strong hint where the bugs are.

R's,
John


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To: Erik Auerswald <auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <0DE4B90E-B03A-45BB-959B-89B695217188@tzi.org> <20200626165123.GA24364@unix-ag.uni-kl.de>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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On 6/26/2020 11:51 AM, Erik Auerswald wrote:
> I have opened a new bug report for this file:


Thank you. This is how things get fixed. :)

/a


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From: "John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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> As a workaround, if you run the XML through "xml2rfc --pdf" you'll get
> a version without the embedded file which is less likely to trip over
> bugs in the processing software.

I tried it, mupdf displays them without trouble.

If you want to get the same rendering details as the published PDFs, 
here's the arguments they use to xml2rfc:

   xml2rfc --v3 --pdf --id-reference-base-url="https://tools.ietf.org/html/" \
    --rfc-reference-base-url="https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/" \
     --id-is-work-in-progress rfcNNNN.xml

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly


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Date: 30 Jun 2020 16:19:39 -0400
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One last observation, the open source xpdf viewer from Glyph and Cog, 
which was forked into the widely used poppler library, seems to handle our 
PDFs without trouble.

http://www.glyphandcog.com/opensource.html

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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On 2020-06-30, at 22:19, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>=20
> One last observation, the open source xpdf viewer from Glyph and Cog, =
which was forked into the widely used poppler library, seems to handle =
our PDFs without trouble.
>=20
> http://www.glyphandcog.com/opensource.html

Good to know.

(Background for my initial observation: When you give an assignment to =
students and their favorite PDF viewer crashes on the required reading =
material, they=E2=80=99ll simply say they can=E2=80=99t do the =
assignment instead of trying out other readers.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten



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Date: 30 Jun 2020 21:10:23 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC PDF crashes viewer
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> (Background for my initial observation: When you give an assignment to students and their favorite PDF viewer crashes on the required reading material, they’ll simply say they can’t do the assignment instead of trying out other readers.)

Since the PDF RFCs display without trouble in the default viewers on 
Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, and Chrome, I am impressed at the creativity 
of your students who went to the effort to find a PDF viewer that didn't 
work.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 18:19:39 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] missing links in draft on tools.ietf.org
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Hello, checking in on this issue. Thanks!

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:16 PM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> My draft-hardt-xauth-protocol drafts are not showing up correctly on
> tools.ietf.org
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol
>
> properly redirects to
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol-10
>
> but there are no links to -07, -08, -09 at the top
>
> and any version shows up given the full URL, but 07 - 10 links are not
> shown at the top, so someone with a full URL link will not know that -10 =
is
> the latest.
>
> FYI: 07 - 10 where all published close together in time.
>
>
> /Dick
>
> =E1=90=A7
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello, checking in on this issue. Thanks!</div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2=
020 at 2:16 PM Dick Hardt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com">dick.=
hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello<div><br></div><div>My draft-hardt-xau=
th-protocol drafts are not showing up correctly on <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a><br><br><a href=3D"https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol" target=3D"_blank">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol</a><br><br>properly redirects t=
o<br><br><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol-=
10" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protoco=
l-10</a><br><br>but there are no links to -07, -08, -09 at the top<br><br>a=
nd any version shows up given the full URL, but 07 - 10 links are not shown=
 at the top, so someone with a full URL link will not know that -10 is the =
latest.<br><div><br></div><div>FYI: 07 - 10 where all published close toget=
her in time.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>/Dick</div><div><br></=
div></div></div><div hspace=3D"streak-pt-mark" style=3D"max-height:1px"><im=
g alt=3D"" style=3D"width: 0px; max-height: 0px; overflow: hidden;" src=3D"=
https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=3DaZGljay5oYXJkdEBnbWFpbC5jb20%3D&a=
mp;type=3Dzerocontent&amp;guid=3D252fbf3d-4734-49ac-b02c-e6528fc2c015"><fon=
t color=3D"#ffffff" size=3D"1">=E1=90=A7</font></div>
</blockquote></div>

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Hi Dick,

this is a long-standing problem with the (rather ancient) scripts that =
are being used to generate the htmlized pages, which sometimes hick up =
when generating cached pages.  Since these scripts are slow, easy =
recipes for overcoming caching problems, such as =E2=80=9Cregenerate =
every day=E2=80=9D, don=E2=80=99t seem to work.
Manual intervention seems to be required.  I think we also have no way =
to automatically find these problems and their extent (I think by now =
the datatracker should have the necessary HTTP APIs to help in =
constructing something like this, but I don=E2=80=99t know for sure).

So until there is a general overhaul of this infrastructure, we will =
continue to see these problems, and we will continue to need to nudge =
people to do the fixing.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


> On 2020-07-01, at 03:19, Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hello, checking in on this issue. Thanks!
>=20
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:16 PM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> Hello
>=20
> My draft-hardt-xauth-protocol drafts are not showing up correctly on =
tools.ietf.org
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol
>=20
> properly redirects to
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hardt-xauth-protocol-10
>=20
> but there are no links to -07, -08, -09 at the top
>=20
> and any version shows up given the full URL, but 07 - 10 links are not =
shown at the top, so someone with a full URL link will not know that -10 =
is the latest.
>=20
> FYI: 07 - 10 where all published close together in time.
>=20
>=20
> /Dick
>=20
> =E1=90=A7
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>=20
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>=20
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