Subject: [v6ops] More ranting on mobile ... Was Re: Protocol Action: '464XLAT: Combination of Stateful andStateless Translation' to Best CurrentPractice (draft-ietf-v6ops-464xlat-09.txt)

From: Cameron Byrne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:15:20 -0800

Rajiv,

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Rajiv Asati (rajiva) <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> I agree with Ales to translation being better in mobile environment.
>
> Overall, I do think that if 464XLAT were to be "informational", then we
> would be better off.
>
> Also, let's not forget that there is MAP-T as well - all about
> translation. :-) The challenge in all of this is that the UE needs to be
> mucked up (whether 464XLAT or MAP-T or MAP-E..) and that's a HUGE
> dependency.
>

Ack, it is a HUGE dependency.  And, it has been a huge surprise to me
that changing the host is easier than changing the app.  But, that
seems to be an axiom now.  Roll with it.  Who in 2001 thought that
Skype, a top 10 android app for peer to peer multimedia communication,
would adamantly and openly oppose supporting IPv6 in 2013 [1].

But, if you are looking for beauty contest....

The relevant data point is that there is open source code available
for 464XLAT.  And, a working integration with a mobile network. There
is also a known multi-vendor inter-op documented by an amateur  [2]

The open source code has be merged into a relevant mobile operating
systems https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/34490/

Look for it on a phone near you RSN :)

Hearkening back to this mail
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops/current/msg15116.html

We need more practical solutions, or *A* solution, and less vaporware
beauty contest.  As a network operator, i  look for solutions that are
ready to ship.

For mobile networks, here is a run down of the solutions:

1. Dual-stack IPv4v6 PDP in 3GPP remains a bridge too far, MAJOR
network gear providers don't support it on NEW gear  (which also blows
my mind, THIS IS NOT A LEGACY PROBLEM, YMMV)

2.  IPv6-only + NAT64/DNS64, works but it is only a a 90% solution
because Skype and Neflix don't work

3.  MAP-T / MAP-E, show it working on a mobile.

4. 464XLAT let me show you it working on mobile, or do it yourself [3]

5.  NAT44, this is the vastly most common choice for all GSM / UMTS/
LTE networks.  Why? Because 1 - 4 aren't shipping yet.  464XLAT is
close.

CB

[1] http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2012-December/053918.html
[2] https://sites.google.com/site/tmoipv6/464xlat (have not looked at
this in a year)
[3] http://dan.drown.org/android/clat/

---

From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:55:10 +0000

Cameron,

> that changing the host is easier than changing the app.  But, that

The dependency really is about having to rely on millions of individuals
upgrading the device the OS to a version that is capable of supporting XYZ.

I was quite surprised, when I found that:

	Few of my friends hadn't upgraded iOS since 5.x.
	One of my friends still ran iOS 4.x.

The reality is expected to far-spread, I suspect. And this is what we
worry about when rely on the end-host to make a fundamental change. We
have to wait until the refresh cycle kicks in (like in case of Windows
XP..).

> would adamantly and openly oppose supporting IPv6 in 2013 [1].

We should take [1] as an individual opinion, not his employer's official
stance. A lot of what he described in his email apply to most big
organizations as far as development/processes are concerned.

> But, if you are looking for beauty contest....

No, I am not. :)

> beauty contest.  As a network operator, i  look for solutions that are

I agree. No doubt about it.

Cheers,
Rajiv

-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Byrne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 12:15 PM
To: Rajiv Asati <[email-masked]>
Cc: Vízdal Aleš <[email-masked]>, Ole Troan
<[email-masked]>, Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]"
<[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]"
<[email-masked]>
Subject: More ranting on mobile ... Was Re: [v6ops] Protocol Action:
'464XLAT: Combination of Stateful andStateless Translation' to Best
CurrentPractice (draft-ietf-v6ops-464xlat-09.txt)