Subject: [VCARDDAV] Confusion regarding the correct use of FN, N and NICKNAME in RFC6350 with regards to nicknames and honorifics

From: Gesh hseG <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 02:18:16 +0200

Hello.
The correct usage of FN/N/NICKNAME in the following scenario is unclear to
me:
Suppose I have an acquaintance who is either more or less close to me than
the average acquaintance,
thus leading to my referring to them using a nickname or honorific,
respectively.
Then it appears that in a vCard referring to them, I should specify their
full name in FN,
their name broken down into components in N, and the name by which I refer
to them in NICKNAME.
In addition, assuming I wish for this person to be sorted by the referring
name, I should set the SORT-AS
parameter of N to the value of NICKNAME.
Thus:
FN:Mr. John Joe Doe\, MSc
N;SORT-AS="Dad":Doe;John;Joe;Mr.;MSc
NICKNAME:Dad

FN:Lady Jane Dale
N;SORT-AS="Lady Dale":Dale;Jane;;Lady;
NICKNAME:Lady Dale

FN:Jeff Lebowski
N;SORT-AS="The Dude":Lebowski;Jeff;;;
NICKNAME:The Dude

However, this reading means the property names do not reflect their use
(FN, N, and NICKNAME should
instead be called Full Name, Name Components, Common Name, respectively),
and causes the duplication
of data (the value of SORT-AS and NICKNAME is duplicated).
In addition, it is unclear what name should be used by an application to
refer to a person.

As far as I can tell, preferably, one would use FN to signify the
regionally-correct concatenation of the components
of N. Both of these would refer to the full legal name of the person in
question. Any personal appellations that one
has for the person in question would be given by NICKNAME. These
appellations would be used by applications
to label and sort the person.
Of course, he application may permit the usage of FN, Last Name, First Name
or First Name, Last Name as
the appellation by which a person is labeled and sorted. However, the
default behavior would be to use NICKNAME.

This has the benefit of allowing people to supply vCards which would then
need to be only minimally modified
by their acquaintances - just enough to have the vCard use the name those
acquaintances use to label those people,.
Thus, John Joe Doe from the example above would give the same vCard, who
would then insert a line causing him
to be referred to as "Boss", "Dad", "Kid", etc.

In brief, assuming I refer to a person by a name that is not their full
name, how do I
A) correctly note this in their vCard,
B) write a standards-conforming program that displays and sorts the person
the same way I refer to them?

Thank you in advance,
Gesh

---

From: Cyrus Daboo <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 16:54:40 -0500

Hi Gesh,

> A) correctly note this in their vCard,

I think that is done simply by having NICKNAME present.

> the same way I refer to them?

It seems that what you need is a client sort option that uses as the sort 
key the NICKNAME value if present, else the FN value (using any SORT-AS 
parameter specified for the selected property). If you do that, there is no 
need to add the N value as a SORT-AS on the FN value as you did in your 
examples.

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

---

From: Thomas Tanghus <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 03:53:29 +0100

> I think that is done simply by having NICKNAME present.

I think the FN property in both rfc2426 and rfc6350 is very ambiguous.
Some interpret it as a concatenation of the N values, others as mostly a 
duplicate of NICKNAME.

I see it as neither

Both specs call it (briefly said) "formatted name", which I see as the way you 
would want the name formatted if you for example wanted to send an email to 
said person.

Say you have a vCard with:

N:Public;John;Quinlan;Sir;Esquire

The FN *could* be:

FN:John Q. Public

And the NICKNAME maybe:

NICKNAME:Joey
 
> > the same way I refer to them?

You can't unless you can read minds or let the user specify FN as free form 
text and don't alter it without the user approving the change.

If I'm wrong in my interpretation please correct me, as that is how I have 
implemented it in ownCloud Contacts, and I have had several disputes about it 
already :)

-- 
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen

Thomas Tanghus

---

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 10:12:56 -0500

Le 2014-01-28 19:18, Gesh hseG a écrit :
> B) write a standards-conforming program that displays and sorts the
> person the same way I refer to them?

Just replying to this one to make one thing clear: the RFC does not 
specify how vCards are to be ordered. Therefore, any ordering is 
"standards-conforming".

SORT-AS is defined to be used as input to an ordering algorithm when 
that algorithm considers a particular property. It does not define how 
vCards are to be sorted in general.

Therefore: do as you want.

Simon
-- 
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---

From: Renato Iannella <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 11:36:34 +1000

>   N:Public;John;Quinlan;Sir;Esquire

All 3 properties are semantically independent - that is - you cant assume any part of N must/should/could be in FN, let alone NICKNAME.

The confusion is from N/FN having "name of the object" in their definitions.

In practice, I think, FN is more like the "common name" of the object and FN is more the "formal structured name".

Cheers...
Renato Iannella
Semantic Identity
http://semanticidentity.com
Mobile: +61 4 1313 2206