Subject: [vmeet] Fwd: Experiment: tools for remote participation in IETF80

From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:48:48 -0500

FYI

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
> Date: January 21, 2011 5:57:38 AM EST
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Experiment: tools for remote participation in IETF80
> 
> Chairs,
> 
> after the last IETF meeting there were some discussions about how to
> allow people to participate in the meetings remotely. We already have
> the jabber rooms and the (outgoing) mp3 feeds but some chairs felt that
> was not enough. The mp3 feeds seemed to be too slow and presentations by
> remote participants (which require at least incoming audio) were a
> challenge.
> 
> A few IETFers have developed a web conferencing and collaboration system
> based on IETF protocols such as SIP, XMPP, BFCP, and RTP. They are
> willing to make it available for WG chairs who want to try it during the
> upcoming IETF in Prague. You can have a look at the system at:
> 
> http://www.meetecho.com/
> 
> Simon Pietro (who chairs the SPLICES WG) can provide you with more
> information about the capabilities of the system and its requirements.
> If you are interested in this, please let him know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gonzalo

---

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:49:30 -0500

> > If you are interested in this, please let him know.

   I see the discussion on <wgchairs>; presumably Gonzalo means

Simon Pietro Romano <[email-masked]>

   The meetecho website is disappointing -- leaves me with very little
idea how to evaluate this tool. "The spirit is willing, but the
flushed-out is weak..."

   ;^)

--
John Leslie <[email-masked]>

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:19:31 +0200

Hi John,

yes, that is the Simon Pietro we were talking about. With respect to the
actual tool, I am more interested in the server part, which uses IETF
protocols. The same way as folks use different XMPP clients to access
the jabber chat rooms, people can use any SIP client to access this.

We have been asked many times why we never used some of the RAI
technologies at the IETFs. Simon Pietro (and his people at the
university) volunteered to set up and support the server during the next
IETF. Since there is no additional support needed to try this out, I
decided to let the WG chairs know. Some of the WG chairs already used
Skype during the last IETF meeting in their sessions. Using SIP-based
VoIP clients instead should not make any difference.

Cheers,

Gonzalo

---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 07:42:24 -0800

> VoIP clients instead should not make any difference.

Gonzalo,

This all sounds quite good.  Thanks!
An unfortunate aspect to the web site is that it does not contain information 
about, or for joining, the group that created the tool.  Adding that will take 
some of the burden off you from having to vouch for this stuff.  It might also 
increase the pool of participants.

Speaking of which, this suggests that there is going to be a team at the meeting 
installing and running this stuff?

As I understand it, a major impediment to use of this sort of tool at an IETF 
meeting is the challenge of linking the room sound system into the Internet 
voice-based mechanism.

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:59:44 +0200

Hi Dave,

> increase the pool of participants.

yes, this has also been pointed out in the WG chairs mailing list. I
have told Simon Pietro to make all the information needed to evaluate
the tool available. He is already working on it. I agree having a web
page will be much more helpful than distributing that type of
information by email.

> installing and running this stuff?

Yes, Simon Pietro and his team at the university are regular IETF
participants. Actually, their implementations (i.e., the different parts
of this platform) have been effectively used as the reference
implementations when developing a few conferencing-related protocols in
WGs within the RAI area. They have run a few demos during the sessions
of those WGs at previous IETF meetings. They will be of course attending
the IETF in Prague.

> meeting is the challenge of linking the room sound system into the Internet 

Indeed. Actually, that was one also of my first comments when Simon
Pietro told me about the possibility to set up the servers and make them
available for this experiment. During the last IETF, a few WG chairs
using Skype simply placed one of the room's microphones against the
speakers of their laptop. Additionally, they used the laptop's
microphone to pick up the audio in the room. We also used this
arrangement during the IESG breakfasts because one of the ADs was
participating remotely. This configuration is obviously far from ideal,
but it was good enough to try different types of interactions. In any
case, Simon Pietro promised to check whether or not it is possible to
plug a laptop to a mixer in the room in order to get perfect incoming
and outgoing audio.

Cheers,

Gonzalo

---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 07:17:39 -0800

> thanks for your comments. My answers inline:

I went to download a client and it occurred to me that it would help to have a 
server available before the meeting, so that participants can familiarize 
themselves with using the service.

The latest ietf.org home page has a "chat live with the ietf community" button 
that starts a jabber session to a common address.  Something similar for this 
new tool might be useful.

d/

-- 

   Dave Crocker

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:32:34 +0200

Hi Dave,

yes, this morning I had already asked Simon Pietro to set up a
conference at the server so that people can test it whenever they wish.
I agree people will need that in order to evaluate the whole system.

Thanks for the feedback,

Gonzalo

---

From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:03:42 -0800

It's worth noting that if you just plug the input and output of a
laptop into a single bus mixer you get a loop, which while
entertaining is probably not what you want.

The invitation to entropy that is 8 rooms of people each independently
playing with own mixer is not conducive to consistent results, so I'd
sharpen up the experimental criteria a bit.

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> NOTE WELL: This list operates according to
> http://mipassoc.org/dkim/ietf-list-rules.html.
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vmeet
>

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:39:26 +0200

Hi Joel,

> entertaining is probably not what you want.

while I agree it could be entertaining, I am pretty sure nobody wants
that :o)

> sharpen up the experimental criteria a bit.

Do you have any particular advice on this one?

Thanks,

Gonzalo