Subject: [XCON] draft-boulton-xcon-session-chat

From: salvatore loreto <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:00:03 +0200

Hi Mary and Chris,

I have just have a quick look at this draft and I have to say that I 
like the idea to have
an xcon draft describing mechanisms and functionalities for a generic 
group chat conference
in a protocol agnostic way.
However the draft seems to me too tight to SIP / MSRP chat mechanisms 
that as far as I know
it is not yet be deployed anywhere, and instead does not say anything 
about other so to say
successful chat protocol like xmpp that is largely deployed and used 
within the Internet.

In order to have a more general description of the problem I think you 
should have a look at
- XEP-0045: Multi-User Chat http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html the 
XMPP protocol extension for multi-user text chat
and to
- http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-saintandre-sip-xmpp-groupchat-00.txt 
that is a first tentative of interworking between xmpp and mrsp-chat.

for example it should be interesting see and discuss in this draft how 
xmpp set a chatroom, a nickname etc. etc.
and describe how it could be possible do the same things using ccmp.

regards
Sal

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---

From: "Mary Barnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:15:04 -0600

Hi Salvatore,

Thanks for the feedback and it's a very good suggestion to look at XMPP
(and perhaps add an example). 

I will definitely take a look at how the XMPP nickname mechanism.
Nicknames are the topic of discussion for this agenda item in XCON on
Thursday:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08nov/agenda/xcon.html

Thanks, 
Mary.  

-----Original Message-----
From: salvatore loreto [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:00 PM
To: [email-masked]; Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00)
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; Peter Saint-Andre
Subject: draft-boulton-xcon-session-chat

Hi Mary and Chris,

I have just have a quick look at this draft and I have to say that I
like the idea to have an xcon draft describing mechanisms and
functionalities for a generic group chat conference in a protocol
agnostic way.
However the draft seems to me too tight to SIP / MSRP chat mechanisms
that as far as I know it is not yet be deployed anywhere, and instead
does not say anything about other so to say successful chat protocol
like xmpp that is largely deployed and used within the Internet.

XMPP protocol extension for multi-user text chat and to

regards
Sal

---

From: salvatore loreto <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:43:08 +0200

Hi Mary,

actually other than a nickname mechanism, xep-045 also define a logging, 
history etc etc
other then supporting private messaging and roster etc. etc.

moreover it is not just a question of example, it is more a matter to 
draft correctly a protocol
agnostic mechanism that works at least for all the current IM/Chat 
protocols.

msrp-chat protocol other that still be a work in progress, it has a too 
limited scope and only
basic features to be take as a good example to describe a Group Chat 
XCON system.

one more comment, I think the title from "Instant Messaging Sessions 
within a Centralized Conferencing (XCON) System"
in to "Group Chat XCON within a Centralized Conferencing (XCON) System"
as Instant Messaging Sessions  are note necessarily chat sessions,  in 
fact generally  are 1:1 sessions
that do not need  any  of the  chat  features at all.

Sal

---

From: "Mary Barnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:06:55 -0600

Hi Salvatore, 

Yes, we do also need the other features you mentions - we just need to
consider some of the dependencies in terms of what sw applications might
need.  

The idea of XCON is entirely protocol agnostic - is your point that the
mechanism we're discussing are as well?

The XCON chat has no dependency on the MSRP chat - we started this doc
as an alternative to that one,  but folks weren't interested since XCON
was not very far along at that point in time. So, the SIMPLE doc is very
specific and limited only to MSRP chat. Per my previous response, we
could minimize discussion of MSRP and add other examples  Also, the XCON
call flows (for which the details are still TBD) will show that there
really is no impact to XCON nor to the chat "media" to use the XCON
framework for setting up, etc. the group chat. 

Good suggestion on the title. 

Thanks,
Mary. 

-----Original Message-----
From: salvatore loreto [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:43 PM
To: Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00)
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; Peter
Saint-Andre
Subject: Re: draft-boulton-xcon-session-chat

Hi Mary,

actually other than a nickname mechanism, xep-045 also define a logging,
history etc etc other then supporting private messaging and roster etc.
etc.

moreover it is not just a question of example, it is more a matter to
draft correctly a protocol agnostic mechanism that works at least for
all the current IM/Chat protocols.

msrp-chat protocol other that still be a work in progress, it has a too
limited scope and only basic features to be take as a good example to
describe a Group Chat XCON system.

fact generally  are 1:1 sessions that do not need  any  of the  chat
features at all.

Sal

Mary Barnes wrote:
> Hi Salvatore,
>
> Thanks for the feedback and it's a very good suggestion to look at 
> XMPP (and perhaps add an example).
>

> should have a look at
> - XEP-0045: Multi-User Chat http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html 
> the XMPP protocol extension for multi-user text chat and to