Subject: [77attendees] I-Ds for Kindle 2

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:10:01 -0700

For people who are planning to read the WG session material during their travel,
I converted all the I-Ds referenced in the WG agendas to a format that can be
read on a Kindle 2:

http://ietf.implementers.org/77/kindle2/

Just download and unzip the file corresponding to the WG on the root directory
of your Kindle.  I-Ds that were posted with a *valid* XML file have also been
converted to a format that supports reflow, TTS and annotations.  Note that this
is an experimental conversion, so always check with the text version.

Enjoy!

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Personal email: [email-masked]
Professional email: [email-masked]
Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:47:07 -0700

> is an experimental conversion, so always check with the text version.

For best readability of the text format, press the Aa button, and select Actual
Size: true.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin

---

From: "Richard Shockey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:55:09 -0400

Well thank you ... by the time of the next IETF comes along you might want
to consider .epub format. That can be read by the iPad's. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Marc Petit-Huguenin
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:47 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [77attendees] I-Ds for Kindle 2

> is an experimental conversion, so always check with the text version.

For best readability of the text format, press the Aa button, and select
Actual
Size: true.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Personal email: [email-masked]
Professional email: [email-masked]
Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org
_______________________________________________
77attendees mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/77attendees

---

From: Jeff Macdonald <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:16:53 -0500

I've been wondering, does the license allow such transformations? I've
been toying with the idea of providing all IDs in kindle format.

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkudXrYACgkQ9RoMZyVa61f9ZQCeJe3DTd8+DDtBsJjzdPPW2pzd
> 9OgAnA9dKIs7SoS85hEBb8hT2dEqoAE6
> =Inx8
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Jeff Macdonald
Ayer, MA

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:27:05 -0400

> been toying with the idea of providing all IDs in kindle format.

Yes. You can convert IETF contributions into any format. You cannot  
modify them, though.

From

http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf

License For Use Within the IETF Standards Process.  The IETF Trust  
hereby
grants to each participant in the IETF Standards Process, to the  
greatest extent that it is permitted
to do so, a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide right and license  
under all copyrights and
rights of authors granted to the IETF Trust:

   i. to copy, publish, display and distribute IETF Contributions and  
IETF
Documents, in whole or in part, as part of the IETF Standards Process,  
and ...

Regards
Marshall

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:34:39 -0700

> been toying with the idea of providing all IDs in kindle format.

http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/archive/IETF-Trust-License-Policy-20091228.htm:

"c. Licenses For Use Outside the IETF Standards Process.  In addition to the
rights granted with respect to Code Components described in Section 4 below, the
IETF Trust hereby grants to each person who wishes to exercise such rights, to
the greatest extent that it is permitted to do so, a non-exclusive,
royalty-free, worldwide right and license under all copyrights and rights of
authors:

   i. to copy, publish, display and distribute IETF Contributions and IETF
Documents in full and without modification,"

IANAL, but my understanding is that, as the Kindle files are merely pictures of
the line-printer version of the I-D, this distribution is authorized.

As for the mobi files created from the XML files, they are different from the
line-printer version (but in a good way, I think), so if the IETF ask me to
remove the mobi files from the distribution, I will.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin

---

From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:50:45 -0400

A while ago I converted all (at the time!) IDs and RFCs to the Rocket
e-Book, Kindle and Sony eBook formats. I was planning on releasing the
code at some point, but then got sidetracked.

If there is interest, I'll see if I still have the code...

W

-- 
Warren "Ace" Kumari
Once again I am trying a new keyboard, so please excuse the even worse
than usual typing!

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:57:39 -0700

> If there is interest, I'll see if I still have the code...

I also released the source code of my tools:

http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org/2010/01/rfc2629-tools.html

I'll probably release a new version tonight with the modifications I did to
generate the files listed below.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin

---

From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:07:57 -0400

> http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org/2010/01/rfc2629-tools.html

Excellent, thank you very much.

W

> iEYEARECAAYFAkuedRAACgkQ9RoMZyVa61dqbACcD89wv6bmWAu/cFWrU6HQ0Xkz
> iHkAn2Lwi8BsHHGig9yecJQPkSEcVd0Z
> =hwnh

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:25:13 -0700

> is an experimental conversion, so always check with the text version.

Now that the deadline for updating the agenda is over, I uploaded the file for
the agendas that were not available yesterday:

conex
decade
dime
ecrit
emu
fecframe
hip
ippm
isis
martini
mediactrl
mptcp
rmt
savi
sipclf
tsvwg
vcarddav

If you cannot find the file for your favorite session it's because either there
is was no agenda after the deadline or there is no I-D name in the agenda.

This concludes this effort for this IETF meeting.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:42:10 +0200

Hi,

given the amount of documents we have to review, we had a conversation
about ebook readers within the IESG. Ebook readers that allow
handwritten annotations such as the Sony or the iliad look particularly
interesting.

Anyway, a quick (and probably stupid) question from someone that has
never used an ebook reader but is considering getting one. I understood
most ebook readers support the txt format... but in this thread you talk
about tools to convert drafts and RFCs to different formats in order to
read them in different devices. What is the advantage of converting the
txt files to those formats? Do you get some type of functionality (e.g.,
zoom or line wrapping) you do not get if you view the txt file directly?

Thanks,

Gonzalo

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:21:46 -0700

> zoom or line wrapping) you do not get if you view the txt file directly?

The problem with I-Ds (and RFCs) is that there are not ordinary txt files; they
are line-printer ready text file, and this is what requires a conversion for
devices that does not support fixed size fonts or that cannot display 80
characters lines (mostly for ASCII art figures and tables).  In fact all this
devices are designed to read novels, and do a very good job at doing this.  To
correctly display a PDF or an RFC, you need a Kindle DX, which has the correct
size to do so without scrolling or reflow.  Unfortunately, the Kindle DX does
not support annotations on a PDF file, which is the reason why I didn't buy one.

One way of doing this conversion is to convert each text page to a picture (a
GIF file); this way the formatting is preserved and there is no problems with
fonts.  On the other hand all the features associated with a normal format are
lost (TTS, annotations, change font, change orientation, etc...).  The bundles I
proposed uses this convertion for all the files.

Another way is to start from the XML file and to generate a mobi file that can
be used on a Kindle.  A mobi file can use TTS, annotations, can be displayed in
various size, etc...

Here's some examples that can help understand.  First is a screenshot of the
Kindle when using the I-D text directly:

http://ietf.implementers.org/screen_shot-2165.gif

Now a screenshot of the I-D text file converted to a series of pictures:

http://ietf.implementers.org/screen_shot-2166.gif

It's readable, but probably too small for some people, but no TTS, no
annotations, etc...

And now the same I-D, but from the XML file converted to a mobi file:

http://ietf.implementers.org/screen_shot-2167.gif

This last format seems close to perfection.  Few people upload the XML file but
it is not the major problem with this.  The major problem is that the XML files
uploaded are in most cases unusuable, because they do not validate and even if
they validate, it is rarely possible to rebuild a document that has a content
identical to the text I-D (short explanation: the original date and the exact
references used are lost), which is a violation of the license granted by the
IETF Trust.  I do think that something could be done about this, and I would be
happy to talk to people in Anaheim about how to fix this issue.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin

---

From: "Richard Shockey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:31:06 -0400

The answer is yes ..if you use say for instance the .epub format you get
lots of advantages including imbedded images and automatic repagination if
you adjust the font size on the display. Which I find extremely useful. The
new iPad and lots of folks are beginning to support it. ( yes mine is on
order)  The Kindle did not directly support either text or epub but does
support pdf you can use the desktop stanza program to convert text to epub
for instance or the kindle native file.

http://www.openebook.org/

This group has not standardized the highlighting or annotation function
...yet these functions tend to be device specific.

I agree with you this is a boon for all us I simply cannot read ID' on a
laptop screen or these crappy netbooks.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Gonzalo Camarillo
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:42 AM
To: Marc Petit-Huguenin
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [77attendees] I-Ds for Kindle 2

Hi,

Thanks,

Gonzalo

---

From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:41:24 +0100

Hi Marc,

thanks for demonstrating that.

On 16.03.2010 15:21, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote:
> ...
> ...

For new RFCs, we should convince the RFC-Editor to

- not use invalid XML (even when accepted by xml2rfc); this is mainly an 
education problem, and

- archive the XML in stable form (with all includes resolves, xml2rfc 
already allows this via xml-to-xml conversion).

For IDs, we should encourage people to submit stand-alone XML (no includes).

Best regards, Julian

---

From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:58:04 -0700

> - not use invalid XML (even when accepted by xml2rfc); this is mainly an

Yes.

> already allows this via xml-to-xml conversion).

The only thing that is missing in the xml-to-xml conversion is filling the
day/month attributes in the date element with the current date.  After this, the
XML file can be used for various conversions without infringing on the license.

> For IDs, we should encourage people to submit stand-alone XML (no

One thing that can be done would be to extract the XML file immediately after
submission (procmail), do the xml-to-xml convertion, fill in the date and then
build a database that people can use to generate various format (HTML, PDF, TXT,
Kindle, etc...).  That does not fix the problem of validation, but that could be
a start.

- -- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin