Subject: [80attendees] Be careful with your stuff

From: Michael Welzl <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:46:24 +0200

Hi,

My wallet was stolen today out of my bag which I always keep close -  
either at breakfast (in Hilton), or at lunch (in Hilton), or during a  
session which I chaired (?!) in Congress Hall 1, maybe right after,  
while I was talking to colleagues. Anyway I'm sure it was stolen  
because Mastercard knew that someone tried to get money with my card  
at 12:07 today at an ATM. I reported this to the bank manager who is  
trying to get more details on when / where it could have happened.

It's not the end of the world for me because they couldn't get money  
from my cards and I didn't carry much cash - but just be careful.

Cheers,
Michael

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From: "Health" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:53:54 +0800

last ietf in 2007, we were almost robbed in the railway station.
the thefts took out our wallets.
so take care for our belongings.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Welzl" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:46 PM
Subject: [80attendees] Be careful with your stuff

> _______________________________________________
> 80attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/80attendees

---

From: Michael Welzl <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:05:30 +0200

...or it's the same person, over and over again. I think it's  
important that everyone who had something stolen talks to the hotel  
manager. She was very friendly, and seemed helpful and professional  
about trying to track down the time and place as good as possible;  
they have a security cam system, so if the same person shows up again  
they might notice.

On Mar 29, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Charles E. Perkins wrote:

>
> Hello folks,
>
> A lot of people have had wallets stolen.
> It seems that the thieves here are expert
> and insatiable.
>
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>
>
> On 3/29/2011 8:53 AM, Health wrote:
>> From: "Michael Welzl"<[email-masked]>
>> To:<[email-masked]>

---

From: "Charles E. Perkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:00:17 -0700

Hello folks,

Regards,
Charlie P.

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:02:04 +0200

> It seems that the thieves here are expert

praha is the pickpocket capital of central europe, it helps the economy
and is definitely on a moral high ground above being the world's largest
arms seller.

one tourist attraction is going to w square and seeing if you can detect
the teams and how they work.  they even have signaling protocols, though
probably lack good documentation.  perhaps the ietf could help.

randy

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From: "Daniel Cohn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:06:17 +0200

While OTOH the metro system appears to operate on an honor basis (no
turnstiles as in most other cities) seems to indicate a relatively high
honesty index...

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Randy Bush
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:02 AM
To: Charles E. Perkins
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [80attendees] Be careful with your stuff

randy

---

From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:12:42 -0700

They have spot checks for tickets, like when you leave the subway station.
I suspect most locals have monthly passes, so they don't need to worry
about tickets and timestamps.

Andy

-----Original Message-----

randy

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:56:01 +0200

> probably lack good documentation.  perhaps the ietf could help.

Randy, what's your detection success rate, e.g. per hour of observing?
 How thick are they?

And I wonder how many dialects of the control protocol there are.

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:03:48 +0200

> and is definitely on a moral high ground above being the world's largest

I have no idea how this could help the economy. Do you think they pay taxes?

> probably lack good documentation.  perhaps the ietf could help.

Yes, they are very well organized and smart-looking. The problem is our legal system has no effective punishment for them.

Lada

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

---

From: Alan T DeKok <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:19:47 +0200

> And I wonder how many dialects of the control protocol there are.

  I saw the same in Barcelona, the pickpocket capitol of Europe.

  It's simple: look for the people who are staring at everyone else.
They're not tourists (who are looking at the scenery), or locals (who
are looking where they're going).  The people who *continuously* stare
at other people are pickpockets.

  Once you learn that, they're pretty easy to spot.

  Another rule I saw the last time in Prague would apply to people from
more populated countries.  This is Europe: if someone is standing within
30cm of you, they probably have malicious intent.  You should move to an
open space away from other people.  And it's Europe, unless it's rush
hour, there *will* be an open space.

  Alan DeKok.

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From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:22:29 -0500

In the Anaheim, USA IETF during March 2010, my digital camera was stolen
from my backpack at the Hilton hotel.

Hemant

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Alan T DeKok
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:20 PM
To: Scott Brim
Cc: Charles E. Perkins; Daniel Cohn; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [80attendees] Be careful with your stuff

  Alan DeKok.

---

From: Olaf Kolkman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:29:04 +0200

> at other people are pickpockets.

Unless they have an orange lanyard, in that case they are IETF-ers trying to reverse engineer the protocols.

--Olaf

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From: Samuel Weiler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:38:44 -0400 (EDT)

> turnstiles as in most other cities) seems to indicate a relatively high

Or perhaps a high level of enforcement combined with relatively low 
rates for monthly or annual passes?  I've seen ticket inspectors 
in Prague before, and the "pay on the spot" fine is 700CZK.  A monthly 
pass is only 550CZK.

---

From: "Daniel Cohn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:05:52 +0200

Well if the fine is only ~1.3 the cost of the monthly pass, it would
take a very high probability of being caught to statistically justify
buying the pass if honesty is not an issue. 
I don't think there is a ~79% probability of being caught once a month
even riding every day...(neglecting the higher-order terms)

DC