Subject: [89attendees] How to survive a London tube strike

From: Gordon Lennox <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:06:07 +0100

On a lighter note and including insights regarding local culture...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/04/how-to-survive-a-london-tube-strike

Gordon

---

From: Arran Cudbard-Bell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:19:14 +0000

> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/04/how-to-survive-a-london-tube-strike

This is more representative of local culture:
http://london-underground.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/farringdon-tube-mice-attacks.html

---

From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:25:39 -0500

Can we safely assume that this strike will be over before our meeting?

On 2/5/14 12:06 PM, Gordon Lennox wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> 89attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/89attendees
>

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 09:27:17 -0800 (PST)

> Can we safely assume that this strike will be over before our meeting?

Of course not. And there will probably be a blizzard, also known as 
5mm of snow which will close Heathrow. Nothing can be predicted, 
everything is possible :-)

Ole

---

From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:33:13 -0500

> everything is possible :-)

OK, I'll be more precise:

Is the probability low (e.g., <10%) that there will still (or again) be 
a London tube strike at the time of our meeting?

IOW, how frequent are such strikes, and what is the typical duration?

	Thanks,
	Paul

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 18:43:45 +0100

> everything is possible :-)

No, they will not run out of beer or tea in London.

;-)

   Patrik

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:11:06 +0000

On 5 Feb 2014, at 17:33, Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Is the probability low (e.g., <10%) that there will still (or again) be a London tube strike at the time of our meeting?

I would say it’s rather higher than 10%. Boris is trying to close *every* ticket office, which could cost 1000 jobs.  I can’t imagine the unions will give the fight against that up lightly. I would guess any strike action would be on weekdays.

The Daily Mash on form:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/hideous-londoners-forced-to-travel-above-ground-2014020583280

Meanwhile the rain gets worse. The train track through Cornwall has been washed away. One of Brunel’s 1840’s originals gone. Quite close to one of his famous bridges over the Tamar.
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Picture-Strom-damage-Dawlish-train-line-major/story-20563578-detail/story.html

Tim

---

From: Elwyn Davies <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 18:36:03 +0000

> IOW, how frequent are such strikes, and what is the typical duration?

OK.. The current strike is 48 hours.  There is another one planned for
11/12 Feb re the same dispute.  The previous tube strike was some
considerable time ago - one day in 2010 I think (another one in 2012 was
called off).  Whether this dispute will have been settled by IETF time
is unknowable but I would guess we are unlikely to be too much affected
- as most of us will be holed up close to the Metropole. 

/Elwyn

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:54:13 +1300

> - as most of us will be holed up close to the Metropole. 

I'm a Brit who lives outside the UK. Pretty much every time I visit
the UK, there have been tube strikes in the news before my arrival.
I've been delayed on the tube by power cuts, bomb scares, train
malfunctions, work on the track (every weekend) but never, personally,
by an actual strike...

The buses are slower and more complicated to use, but you actually
get to experience the city.

     Brian

---

From: "McDonald, Alex" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:45:11 +0000

Low. Transport strikes are rare and deeply unpopular. There are buses and you can (shock horror) walk, or (you must be nuts, but you're at an IETF so that's a given) hire a Boris Bike. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11598.aspx

Alex McDonald
Standards & Industry Associations Group
CTO Office
NetApp
+44 7795 046686 Mobile Phone
[email-masked]
twitter: @alextangent 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 89attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
> Paul Kyzivat
> Sent: 05 February 2014 17:33
> To: Ole Jacobsen
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [89attendees] How to survive a London tube strike
>

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 09:08:18 +0900

> Can we safely assume that this strike will be over before our meeting?

do folk care?  americans were not planning on riding on trains anyway.
ewwwww!

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 01:30:57 +0100

Guys, what are you talking about. Ny inbox is full off emails about tube strikes. It's fine, seriously, you can share a cab. 

Best,

Kay

> On 5 Feb 2014, at 19:54, Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 10:04:29 +0900

> Guys, what are you talking about. Ny inbox is full off emails about
> tube strikes. It's fine, seriously, you can share a cab.

transport is a major concern of the ietf

and even sharing, a cab from deathrow makes the deathrow express look
reasonably priced

randy

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 02:10:31 +0100

I share this concern, even though I'm new to ietf. 
May be look into carpooling plan B s options.

Sent

---

From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 01:24:46 +0000

Unless you have plenty of time to spare, you do not want to go anywhere by car in London, and certainly not at rush hour times, unless you have no alternatives. And in any case, any buses going in the right direction will still be nearly as quick as a car.

If you are staying in the meeting hotel, and coming into London Heathrow, the Heathrow express is currently not subject to any industrial action, and will be quicker than taxi. You can walk from Paddington station (it is so close I suspect may taxi drivers will be upset at having to take you). You will be in well frequented roads all the way up until the early morning (London is a late night city) so there should not be safety concerns.

You will only need transport to leave the meeting hotel in the evening, and there are still many restaurants within walking district of the hotel.

And that is assuming there is any industrial action during the meeting week. At the moment I am not worrying about that.

Regards

Keith Drage

> From: 89attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On 
> Behalf Of [email-masked]
> Sent: 06 February 2014 01:11
> To: Randy Bush
> Cc: Elwyn Davies; [email-masked]; Ole Jacobsen; Brian E 
> Carpenter; Paul Kyzivat

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 10:31:45 +0900

> May be look into carpooling plan B s options.

ROFL!  you're kidding, right?

you do NOT want to drive in london.  i did for a week once.  the
only positive was learning that the width of a car is inversely
proportional to its velocity.

if you're on an expense account, take the deathrow excess.  wanna
trade a bit of time for a bit of money, the connect.  on a really
tight budget, take the tube.  

do NOT take a taxi.  it is not as bad a mistake as doing so at
narita, but it's in the running.

the uk and the states are in a race to the bottom as far as
infrastructure maintenance is concerned.  so do not expect
everything to work, be clean, or be low friction.  but at least the
british have public transport, and over the last decades they have
even discovered food.

randy

---

From: Elwyn Davies <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 01:32:08 +0000

***DON'T PANIC***

You'll almost certainly be arriving Saturday or Sunday.
The union won't be striking Sat or Sunday - Nothing like the effect of a
good 'ol weekday chaos jam gridlock.

Heathrow Connect/Express won't be affected even if there is a strike.

And if there is a strike you probably want to stay well away from taxis
any time during the rush hours/working day.  Traffic will be chaotic
throughout the London area.

BTW The advance engineeting works calendar for both weekends is showing
clear for both ends of the IETF week. Phew! 

/Elwyn

---

From: David Misell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 01:32:51 +0000

+1

---

From: David Misell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 01:35:53 +0000

If you arrive in a group of 4+1 and one of you buys a network railcard then all of you get discount prices at weekends so its £21 return o the express as long as one of you has the 12months valid network railcard

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 5 Feb 2014 21:32:30 -0500

> do folk care?  americans were not planning on riding on trains anyway.

I gather you're planning to take all your meals in the hotel?

Regards,
John Levine, [email-masked], Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.

---

From: Patrik Fältström <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 06:37:49 +0100

On 2014-02-06 02:31, Randy Bush wrote:
> on a really tight budget, take the tube.

The tube works from Heathrow. I have done it many times -- for example
when going to places not close to Paddington. Takes much longer time
than Heathrow Express -- but I claim it might still be faster than cab.
In rush hour it might be hard to get a seat though, so you might have to
stand a bit. But the turnaround of people is high.

   Patrik

---

From: Stuart Cheshire <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:05:54 -0800

> everything is possible :-)

Especially if it's the Wrong Type of Snow.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_wrong_type_of_snow>

Stuart Cheshire

---

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Feb 2014 07:36:54 -0000

>than Heathrow Express -- but I claim it might still be faster than cab.

Agreed.  On weekends, it's probably just as fast as the Heathrow
Connect, since HC only runs every 1/2 hr on Sat and once hourly on
Sun, but the Piccadilly line runs all the time.

To get to the Edgeware Rd stop close to the Hilton, you change at
Earl's Court for the northbound District line.  It's not hard.

R's,
John

---

From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:37:06 -0500

> transport is a major concern of the ietf

I've often wondered what exactly would happen if we hosted an IETF *at
a major airport hotel* (e.g. BRU)?
What would we all panic about in the weeks leading up to the meeting?
Would we suddenly manage to publish a bunch more work? Or is the
quantity (and quality) of the "OMG, how do I get form the airport to
the hotel" a constant? (Maastricht would imply not).

Or perhaps the shared hardship and advice helps build a sense of community? :-)
W

---

From: Jen Linkova <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 17:55:16 +0100

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Warren Kumari <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Would we suddenly manage to publish a bunch more work?

I don;t think so as dinners would take much more time due to increased RTT..
To be more productive the the meeting should be hosted in a nice hotel
close to an airport but still in the middle of nowhere
to avoid the temptations and distractions that accompany a big city ;)

>Or is the

If we hosted IETF at a major airport hotel, there would be a lot of
emails "how do I get from the hotel to a decent restaurant.." I'm
afraid ;)
And it would be at least 6 times more trips...;)

> Or perhaps the shared hardship and advice helps build a sense of community? :-)

I choose 'all of the above' option in this survey.

-- 
SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry

---

From: Simon Perreault <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 11:57:51 -0500

> to avoid the temptations and distractions that accompany a big city ;)

Then I don't want to be productive.

Simon

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 6 Feb 2014 18:13:05 -0000

>What would we all panic about in the weeks leading up to the meeting?

Gee, you must be new here.

People will complain that the airport Sheraton is expensive, and there
aren't adequate alternatives nearby.  The airport is right next to
Zaventem, can you walk into town?  (Only on highways with no
sidewalks.)  Do the other hotels have courtesy shuttles?  When do they
run?  Can you take the hotel shuttle to get into town if you're not
staying at the hotel?  You wouldn't want to, most of the hotels are
out by the highway, not in town.  There's the #12 bus, when does it
run, and how many different kinds of tickets are there?

People coming from other places in Europe are more likely to take the
train, e.g. the Eurostar which takes about 90 mins from London or the
Thalys which is 72 mins from Paris or 110 mins from Amsterdam.  But
they go to Bruxelles midi, not the airport, how much is a taxi? You
don't take a taxi, there's a dedicated train to the airport.  But it's
very expensive.  Get your Eurostar ticket to ANY BELGIAN STATION and
it includes the airport connection.  Are there weekly passes for the
aiport train if you want to take it into Brussels where the restos are
much better?  Do the machines sell them, and do you need a chip card?

The Thalys is expensive, is the Fyra from Amsterdam better?  The Fyra
doesn't actually exist, the rolling stock was defective and was all
sent back to the manufacturer.

Oh, and then there's the food.  Belgian food combines the best, i.e.,
least healthy, of French, Dutch, and German.  The national snack is
french fries with mayo, and the national dish is moules frites,
combining shellfish allergies and deep fat, washed down with high
gluten beer.

Any more questions, just ask.  Or not.

R's,
John

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 6 Feb 2014 18:14:04 -0000

>to avoid the temptations and distractions that accompany a big city ;)

Humph. If you want Orlando, you know where to find it.

R's,
John

---

From: Yoav Nir <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:04:05 +0000

> What would we all panic about in the weeks leading up to the meeting?

That's easy!
 - Would it be too noisy because of all those planes?
 - If I stay at XXX instead of the venue, does the [means of getting to the airport] stop close to the venue?
 - Is there a restaurant that serves [dietary restriction-compliant] food at or near the airport hotel?

---

From: David Misell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:28:42 +0000

Jen,
The polycom suites would save travelling, there is one near washington, and the are very good.

Regards

dave