Subject: [91attendees] *** Reminder and update "Nerds in Paradise" T-shirts ***

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:32:53 -0700 (PDT)

**** UPDATE: We will offer women's style T-shirts as well as the 
originally announced range of sizes. If you have already ordered
and would like to make a change, please respond with the details.

**** REMINDER: The deadline is approaching, send in your order today!

Dear IETF 91 Attendee,

Twenty-five years ago, the IETF met in Honolulu for IETF 15. This was 
long before the days of hosts and sponsors and thus long before there 
were any official T-shirts for attendees.

A small group of IETFers got together and decided that it would be fun 
to create a T-shirt. The now-famous "Nerds in Paradise" imprint was 
designed by Julia Topolcic and became, as far as we know, the first 
IETF shirt ever. It was printed locally in Honolulu and distributed to 
those who had signed up for it.

This is what the shirt looked like: 

http://www.blkk.com/_Media/img_4721-2.jpeg

To commemorate IETF 15 and that T-shirt, we are planning to produce a 
Version 2.0 in the same ad hoc fashion, based closely on the original 
design. The cost per T-shirt will about US $ 15.00, priced to offset 
the cost of this excercise. The final price will depend on how many 
shirts we order. If there are surplus funds, we will donate them to 
the Open Internet Endowment:

http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/open-internet-endowment-0

If you wish to pre-order, please let us know what size and how many 
you want by 23:59:00 UTC on October 22, 2014. Available sizes are:
Men's and Women's: S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL. 

Send your order to: [email-masked]. You will be required to pay in
CASH when collecting your shirt in Honolulu. We expect to distribute
the shirts on Sunday afternoon, November 9. 

Mail orders are NOT available, we suggest you ask an IETF 91 attendee
to collect the shirt for you if you are unable to attend in person.

See you in Honolulu!

Bob Hinden
Joel A. Jaeggli
Ole J. Jacobsen

---

From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 01:55:43 +0000

Hi Ole,

What color will the shirt be?

Glenn
--------
Sent from my cell, please forgive the typos

> On Oct 17, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 19:02:18 -0700 (PDT)

As close as possible to the original, i.e, pink.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher
The Internet Protocol Journal
Office: +1 415-550-9433
Cell:   +1 415-370-4628
Web: protocoljournal.org
E-mail: [email-masked]
E-mail: [email-masked]
Skype: organdemo

---

From: "Bradner, Scott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 02:04:57 +0000

http://www.blkk.com/photos/random_pix/t-shirts/nerds_in_paradise.html

On Oct 17, 2014, at 9:55 PM, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) <[email-masked]> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> 91attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/91attendees

---

From: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:35:44 +0300

Aren't there any other color options?
I'm getting the impression that in the early IETF days there were more women attending the events. =-O

--
Tassos

---

From: Christer Holmberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 15:08:19 +0000

Real men wear pink.

-----Original Message-----
From: 91attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
Sent: 20 October 2014 17:36
To: Ole Jacobsen
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [91attendees] *** Reminder and update "Nerds in Paradise" T-shirts ***

--
Tassos

Ole Jacobsen wrote on 18/10/2014 05:02:
>>> originally announced range of sizes. If you have already ordered and 
>>> would like to make a change, please respond with the details.
>>>
>>> Twenty-five years ago, the IETF met in Honolulu for IETF 15. This 
>>> was long before the days of hosts and sponsors and thus long before 
>>> there were any official T-shirts for attendees.
>>>
>>> A small group of IETFers got together and decided that it would be 
>>> fun to create a T-shirt. The now-famous "Nerds in Paradise" imprint 
>>> was designed by Julia Topolcic and became, as far as we know, the 
>>> first IETF shirt ever. It was printed locally in Honolulu and 
>>> distributed to those who had signed up for it.
>>>
>>> To commemorate IETF 15 and that T-shirt, we are planning to produce 
>>> a Version 2.0 in the same ad hoc fashion, based closely on the 
>>> original design. The cost per T-shirt will about US $ 15.00, priced 
>>> to offset the cost of this excercise. The final price will depend on 
>>> how many shirts we order. If there are surplus funds, we will donate 
>>> them to the Open Internet Endowment:
>>>
>>> Mail orders are NOT available, we suggest you ask an IETF 91 
>>> attendee to collect the shirt for you if you are unable to attend in person.
>>>
>>> See you in Honolulu!
>>>
>>> Bob Hinden
>>> Joel A. Jaeggli
>>> Ole J. Jacobsen
>>>
>>>

---

From: Dominik Bay <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:20:22 +0200

> I'm getting the impression that in the early IETF days there were more women attending the events. =-O

Maybe you're just spoiled by general expectations of colour / gender in
society.

-dominik

---

From: Colin Doyle <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:21:24 -0700

Heck, they even pull it off.

-- 

Colin Doyle
Networking Fellow
Verilan, Inc.
7327 SW Barnes Rd. #215
Portland, OR 97225

+1 503.810.2129 [mobile]
[email-masked] [email]
cdoyle.verilan [skype]
www.verilan.com [website]
On Oct 20, 2014 8:20 AM, "Christer Holmberg" <[email-masked]>

---

From: Stephen Botzko <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:28:12 -0400

>>>Real men wear pink.
and 8% of us are color blind anyway, and can't tell for sure...

---

From: Kathleen Moriarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:32:12 -0400

> Maybe you're just spoiled by general expectations of colour / gender in
Maybe a return to pink will increase the percentage of women attending the
IETF </sarcasm>.  Let's not worry about color so much.  At the Grace Hopper
Celebration, women were not happy about the abundance of pink... you can't
win.

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:35:34 -0700

Real Nerds wear pink!

Bob

On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:08 AM, Christer Holmberg <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Nerds mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nerds

---

From: Dominik Bay <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:37:27 +0200

On 10/20/2014 05:32 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> Maybe a return to pink will increase the percentage of women attending
> the IETF </sarcasm>.  Let's not worry about color so much.  At the Grace
> Hopper Celebration, women were not happy about the abundance of pink...
> you can't win.

Agreed. I wouldn't see it as a gender-specific colour anyway.
Maybe we can just agree on the original pink version, and on another
black version.

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:46:41 -0700 (PDT)

> Maybe we can just agree on the original pink version, and on another

Just to be 100% clear: The color of the shirt is PINK. There is no 
"agreement", "consensus", "working group", BOF or anything else.
The color was chosen in a closed meeting. There are no avenues for
appeal.

So there.

Ole

---

From: Christer Holmberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 15:54:29 +0000

There is a slogan for the IETF#92 t-shirt ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Hinden [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 20 October 2014 18:36
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: Bob Hinden; Tassos Chatzithomaoglou; Ole Jacobsen; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Nerds] [91attendees] *** Reminder and update "Nerds in Paradise" T-shirts ***

Real Nerds wear pink!

Bob

On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:08 AM, Christer Holmberg <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>> to offset the cost of this excercise. The final price will depend 
>>>> on how many shirts we order. If there are surplus funds, we will 
>>>> donate them to the Open Internet Endowment:
>>>> 
>>>> CASH when collecting your shirt in Honolulu. We expect to 
>>>> distribute the shirts on Sunday afternoon, November 9.
>>>>

---

From: Wendy Roome <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:57:16 -0400

I wasn't involved with IETF back then, but I doubt there were more women
then than now.

The original post said the shirts were printed locally. Most likely, that
was the cheapest color the print shop had in stock. Also, I suspect pink
tourist tee shirts are more common in Hawaii than in (say) North Dakota.

But guys, think about it. Yes, there are women who insist on wearing pink.
But most of them would jump headfirst into a volcano before wearing a
"nerd" tee shirt. And those of us who would gladly proclaim our nerdhood
to the world generally don't have a hangup about wearing pink. If
anything, for me, pink is a turnoff.

If the IETF wants to cater to women, offer tee shirts in women's sizes,
blast it!! In other words, fitted! I don't particularly care about the
color. But I do want something that doesn¹t hang on me like a shapeless
baggy sack!

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. Thanks for letting me rant! :-)

	- Wendy Roome

On 10/20/2014, 10:35, "Tassos Chatzithomaoglou" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>>fun

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT)

> Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. Thanks for letting me rant! :-)

Wendy,

We (the group organizing this) are NOT the IETF, we are just 3 
volunteers, but just to be clear Women's sizes ARE available for
this particular shirt, size range from S to XXXL.

Thanks,

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen 
Editor and Publisher

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:03:42 -0700

Wendy,

> color. But I do want something that doesn¹t hang on me like a shapeless

Sorry to interrupt your rant, but we are offering them in women's styles.  Available sizes are:
Men's and Women's: S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL. 

Please place your order ASAP.

Bob

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:04:37 -0400

<sarcasm> Women don't have to wear pink to identify their gender; nor do
girls.  Strangely enough, even men wearing pink are not misidentified
(terror!) as women; boys who do and are misidentified can manage to survive
undamaged. </sarcasm>

As for having women's sizes, I don't care about fitted but I do care about
not having a design that tucks into my waist because of the assumption of
an extra foot of height.

Alia

---

From: Tomek Mrugalski <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:09:02 +0200

> The color was chosen in a closed meeting. There are no avenues for
Pink it is then. Can we at least negotiate its luminance? How about deep
dark pink (#4e0147)? If dark tints are not your thing, how about a light
one (#ffe5ed)?

No? Oh well, I had to try.

Let's try something else then. Starting discussion about the geekiest
way of dyeing a t-shirt in 3... 2... 1...

Tomek

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT)

> way of dyeing a t-shirt in 3... 2... 1...

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments 
ago.

Ole

---

From: Suzanne Woolf <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:48:24 -0400

I'm wondering if it's a protocol violation for me to speak up without a complaint, nitpick, rant, or comment on anyone else's complaint, nitpick, or rant, but I'll do it anyway: I think the nod to our history and culture is pretty darned cute, and thanks. 

Suzanne

---

From: "John G. Scudder" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:58:35 -0400

On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Alia Atlas <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Women don't have to wear pink to identify their gender; nor do girls.  Strangely enough, even men wearing pink are not misidentified (terror!) as women; boys who do and are misidentified can manage to survive undamaged. 

FDR rocked a rather fetching dress as a wee one. Maybe a pink one but we don't know, because B&W. He is not remembered as an underachiever.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/04/fdr-grew-up-in-a-dress-it-wasnt-always-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls/237299/

Looking forward to my pink tee,

--John

---

From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 13:16:38 -0400

> dark pink (#4e0147)? If dark tints are not your thing, how about a light

My understanding was that the *goal* of this project was a historic 
recreation. Changing the color would be contrary to the goal.

And if you want to change the color because the original offends you, 
then maybe we should also change the font to something more pleasing. 
And maybe the wording isn't politically correct now, so maybe that 
should be changed too.

If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to buy it.

	Thanks,
	Paul

---

From: "Howard, Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 13:23:50 -0400

>The color was chosen in a closed meeting. There are no avenues for

I think it's cool that you're doing a commemorative anniversary T-shirt in
the original color.

As with any T-shirt, people are welcome to modify their own however they
see fit. The hotel might not be thrilled if someone throws a Rit dyeing
party in one of their bathtubs.

Lee

>Ole

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.

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From: "da Silva, Ronald" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:00:08 -0400

For those who don’t want the official retro t-shirt, I’m offering completely random t-shirts, variety of colors, sizes, fonts, messages and images for only $40 each.  You can not pre-order or otherwise specify a color, size or print.. just bring me some cash and I’ll get some random t-shirts for you.  :-)

Your connectivity sponsor (to t-shirts),
-ron

PS: these won’t have anything to do with nerds, IPv6, nits, wifi interference, or ATM.

---

From: "Carlos M. Martinez" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:46:44 -0200

Where I live, guys wear light pink shirts often, particularly during
spring and summer and particularly the younger generations. Looking out
my office glass pane I can spot two right now.

So I don't think there is anything wrong with pink.

---

From: Merike Kaeo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:18:11 -0700

> party in one of their bathtubs.

LOL - first there's the standard and then there's the implementation deviations per
implementor.  Love it.  I like retro and huge thanks to the folks who are making the
t-shirts out of own volition and nostalgic reasons.

- merike

---

From: "Carlos M. Martinez" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:19:20 -0200

I, for one, thank those who put the energy and time into these
initiatives, like the Nerds in Paradise t-shirt or the 'Your DNS needs
urgent attention' i'm also getting from a friend of mine from ICANN SSAC :D

You guys are making the world a little less gray.

-Carlos

---

From: "Roni Even" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 00:28:13 +0300

October is the breast cancer awareness month and pink is the color to mark
it.
So having pink t-shirt should also help this important cause

http://www.nationalbreastcancer.org/breast-cancer-awareness-month 

Roni

> From: 91attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ole
> Jacobsen
> Sent: 20 October, 2014 6:47 PM
> To: Dominik Bay
> Cc: [email-masked]
"agreement",
> "consensus", "working group", BOF or anything else.
> The color was chosen in a closed meeting. There are no avenues for appeal.
> 
> So there.
> 
> Ole
>

---

From: Mwendwa Kivuva <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:45:55 +0300

This thread has more responses than regular drafts. maybe we should have a
draft to develop an RFC for meeting t-shirts :)
Any co-authors?

______________________
Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
twitter.com/lordmwesh

"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on
higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson

---

From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:48:29 +0000

A requirements draft seems to be valuable.
Or should we go for BCP as we had already many high end artful t-shirts.

That said I don't see a pink t-shirt that problematic. It is nice anyway.

Cheers,
Mehmet

From: 91attendees [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of ext Mwendwa Kivuva
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 7:46 AM
To: Roni Even
Cc: Ole Jacobsen; [email-masked]; Dominik Bay
Subject: Re: [91attendees] *** Reminder and update "Nerds in Paradise" T-shirts ***

This thread has more responses than regular drafts. maybe we should have a draft to develop an RFC for meeting t-shirts :)
Any co-authors?

______________________
Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
twitter.com/lordmwesh<http://twitter.com/lordmwesh>
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson

On 21 October 2014 00:28, Roni Even <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
October is the breast cancer awareness month and pink is the color to mark
it.
So having pink t-shirt should also help this important cause

Roni

> From: 91attendees [mailto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>] On Behalf Of Ole
> Jacobsen
> Cc: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
"agreement",
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>

_______________________________________________
91attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/91attendees

---

From: Dean Bogdanovic <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:05:25 +0000

Agree with Mehmet. It is nice to see a change

On Oct 21, 2014, at 4:48 AM, "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

That said I don’t see a pink t-shirt that problematic. It is nice anyway.

Cheers,
Mehmet

From: 91attendees [mailto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>] On Behalf Of ext Mwendwa Kivuva
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 7:46 AM
To: Roni Even
Cc: Ole Jacobsen; [email-masked]<http://ietf.org>; Dominik Bay
Subject: Re: [91attendees] *** Reminder and update "Nerds in Paradise" T-shirts ***

______________________

Roni

"agreement",

_______________________________________________
91attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<http://ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/91attendees