Subject: [AAA-WG]: RECENT CHANGE to "members only"

From: William Bulley <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:06:53 -0500

To combat the SPAM growth industry, recently Merit changed
the submission policy for the [email-masked] mailing list.
This was done in concurrence with the Working Group chair.

Since then some members have complained that they cannot
post.  I show over six hundred listed members for aaa-wg
(some are local exploders, some are archivers).  It may
be that your address in that list is different from the
one you are using to post.

If you are having trouble posting to the aaa-wg list, one
solution is to unsubscribe and resubscribe.  If you have
any questions, let me know.

Regards,

web...

-- 
William Bulley                     Manager of Software Engineering
Merit Network, Inc.                Email: [email-masked]
Building One, Suite 2000           Phone: (734) 764-9430
4251 Plymouth Road                 Fax:   (734) 647-3185
Ann Arbor, Michigan  48105-2785

"We're not C++ programmers.  There is one program written in C++
in OpenBSD, out of 300 megabytes of source code." - Theo deRaadt,
father and principal archtitect of the OpenBSD operating system.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:53:20 -0500 (EST)

I think the AAA working group needs to discuss and rethink the recent
change of the mailing list status to members-only submission.

Last Tuesday I attempted to send a few messages to the working group
for consideration, however these messages have apparently gone
nowhere.  On Thursday, I tried posting them again before leaving town
for an extended weekend.  Given the tight working group milestone
schedule, I don't think we should be putting blocks into working group
communication at this time.  If this message makes it successfully to
the AAA WG I will once again resubmit those old messages.

There has been recent discussion about moderation and members-only
posting policies on both the main IETF and the poised working group
mailing list on this issue (see subjects "Mail sent to midcom" and
"More member-only anti-spam").  That discussion included a number of
reasons for not using a members-only policy along with some
suggestions about how a members-only mailing list should run.

I'll note the following issues with regard to the aaa-wg list:

- The list became members-only without any notification.  There has
now been notification to the current subscribers.

- The mailing list software does not send any response back to the
sender of rejected messages.  I needed to wait a "reasonable" amount
of time to decide that my messages were not actually making it
through, thus further delaying the posting process.

- Rejected messages don't seem to go to a moderator for approval.  
Nor is the mailing list owner apparently made aware of the rejected
messages.

- I am subscribed to the IETF AAA WG mailing list with an email
address different from my main email address.  I use this alternate
address to enable better sorting of my incoming email and prefer that
my email address remain listed this way.

- Other postings are not making it to the list.  In particular, but
don't assume it is limited to, messages from [email-masked]
have not been making it to the list.  I see the following messages
missing from the working group archives:

  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-accounting-00.txt
  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-00.txt
  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-framework-00.txt
  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-impl-guide-00.txt
  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-mobileip-00.txt
  Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-nasreq-00.txt

These messages are pretty important to current working group
activities and were sent on February 12.

- There have also been numerous messages recently which have been
crossposted between the aaa-wg mailing list and the diameter mailing
list.  The new policy prevents responses made by subscribers to only
the diameter mailing list from making it to the aaa-wg mailing list
(and its archives).  There also is (or at least was) a similar
members-only policy on the diameter mailing list which poses
interesting interactions between the mailing lists.  In the past the
AAA WG has worked closely with roamops and other ietf working groups
where there were other crosspostings which would have been rejected by
the new policy.

- As indicated below, some of the official mailing list members are
archive processes and local list exploders.  People who read the
mailing list content via those processes are also currently unable to
send messages to the mailing list.

I have not seen discussion of these last three issues on the ietf or
poised mailing list and would think them as important considerations
when deciding to make a mailing list members-only.

[Note: This message is being sent with munged "from" information in
order for it to meet aaa-wg posting requirements.  Mail sent to that
address will go into my AAA folder and does not receive the same
priority as mail sent to my primary email address.  I am currently
monitoring my AAA folder so will see responses there fairly quickly,
but that is not always the case.  Therefore, use the address below for
anything you want to be sure I see.]

Stuart
-- 
Stuart A Barkley                        email: [email-masked]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, William Bulley wrote:

> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:06:53 -0500
> From: William Bulley <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [AAA-WG]: RECENT CHANGE to "members only"
>