Subject: Re: [Adslmib] Confused about ADSL2 and ADSL2+ Work

From: "Michael Sneed" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:53:02 -0400

Hi Clay,

I can only address your question partially. The IETF is not currently 
working on ADSL2 or ADSL2+ MIBs (or modification/expansion of existing MIBs 
to support ADSL2/ADSL2+), and the adslmib WG is not currently chartered to 
do such work. It is certainly possible to undertake an expansion of the WG 
charter; this would require the approval of the ADs and the IESG, which 
presupposes the  following:

1) consensus that such MIBs are useful
2) consensus that the WG can complete the task in a timely manner
3) sufficient volunteers to assure the work will get done

I think 1) is likely not a problem.

2) is more of an issue, because adslmib has tried to work with significant 
input from the DSL Forum.  If the DSL Forum has not yet begun work on the 
management of ADSL2, then it may be premature to undertake such work in the 
IETF.

3) remains to be seen.  While there has been significant interest in an 
ADSL2 MIB, so far no one has volunteered to work on it.  This might be a 
consequence of the previous issue.

The speed with which such a MIB can be developed is largely dependent on the 
amount of effort the volunteers are able to devote to the work, and on how 
quickly a consensus can be reached.  Again, consensus is unlikely if the DSL 
Forum has not yet addressed the issue, in my opinion.

This said, if there is a sudden outpouring of support for this work, 
convincing arguments that the goals are achievable, and a flood of 
volunteers,  we can certainly attempt to get the charter expanded in the 
near future.

The issue of expansion of the extension MIB transmission mode objects is 
problematic in lieu of a charter expansion, I would think.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mike

>From: Clay Sikes <[email-masked]>
>To: Michael Sneed <[email-masked]>, ADSL MIB <[email-masked]>
>CC: Kent Davidson <[email-masked]>
>Subject: [Adslmib] Confused about ADSL2 and ADSL2+ Work
>Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:39:43 -0400
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm confused about what is being done to add MIB support for ADSL2 and
>ADSL2+. I'm going to summarize some threads that I have seen or been a
>part of with hope that someone will be able to figure out why I'm
>confused and provide me with clear direction regarding MIB support for
>ADSL2 and ADSL2+.
>
>1.  Tuesday, 01 March 2003, I inquired about plans to update the
>AdslTransmissionType TC to support bits defined in the ITU 's G.997.1.
>Greg Bathrick responded that same day agreeing that the
>AdslTransmissionType needed to be extended along with other things.
>Also, he felt that the 997.1 needed to become finalized before work
>could begin.
>
>2. Wednesday, 30 April 2003, I learned from a Paradyne representative at
>the ITU Q4 meeting, which took place two weeks prior, the G.997.1
>underwent a minor revision and was approved.
>
>3. Thursday, 08 May 2003, I emailed the adslmib group inquiring about
>the status of the ADSL-LINE-MIB and ADSL-LINE-EXT-MIB with respect to
>ADSL2 and ADSL2+ support. Rajesh Abbi <[email-masked]>
>responded and indicated that the DSL Forum has just beginning work on
>capturing the requirements as well as a protocol independent object
>model for managing the next generation ADSL technologies.
>
>4. Thursday, 08 May 2003, I responded to Rajesh and inquired as to when
>something would be available and whether or not the AdslTransmissionType
>TC in the ADSL-LINE-EXT-MIB should be extended to support ADSL2 and
>ADSL2+ in the short term. I never got a response.
>
>5.  On Wednesday, 21 May 2003, Morti Morgenstern, asked if the working
>group could start discussing an ADSL2 MIB.
>
>6. On Wednesday, 21 May 2003, Michael Sneed, responded to Morti and
>indicated that ADSL2 is not currently in the charter of the group.
>
>
>Can anyone please tell me who is working on a MIB to support ADSL2 and
>ADSL2+?
>
>If someone is working this issue, is there some estimate as to when the
>MIB would be available?
>
>If this working group is not going to support MIBs for ADSL2 and ADSL2+,
>what will happen to the adslLineTransAtucCap, adslLineTransAtucConfig,
>and adslLineTransAutcActual MIB objects in the ADSL-LINE-EXT_MIB?
>
>Will they be deprecated?
>
>
>As you can see, I'm really confused. Any help will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks!!
>Clay Sikes
>Paradyne Corp.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Adslmib mailing list
>[email-masked]
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/adslmib

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---

From: Clay Sikes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:08:20 -0400

Michael,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

One last question, is this group responsible for the ADSL-LINE-EXT-MIB, or was
that done somewhere else and if so where?

Please keep me in mind as a potential volunteer for future work. I would
welcome an opportunity to pitch in and help.

Thanks,
Clay

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:10:53 +0100

Michael,
Let me point out that the G.997.1 update in ITU SG15 is approved now.
It contains all the MIB elements needed for ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2plus.
The DSL Forum has addressed the ADSL2(plus) MIB at the last meeting
and sourced liaison to IETF.
The DSL Forum is also progressing on interoperability testing of ADSL2.
This implies system level MIBs will be needed for deployment soon.
I am puzzled why you think there is not sufficient interest to take the work into IETF
to "compile" G.997.1 into a useful SNMP MIB (over the next half to full year?)
Regards,
Frank Van der Putten
ITU-T SG15/Q4 ADSL2(PLUS) editor
DSLForum Board Member

--
Frank Van der Putten, Alcatel Fellow
Veldkant 7, B-2550 Kontich, Belgium
Tel. +32 3 4503032 Fax. +32 3 4503570
Email [email-masked]

---

From: "Umberto Bonollo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:39:10 +1000

Hi Mike,
I can only echo and agree with Frank's comments on ADSL2.
I'd be happy to assist Bob Ray, Rajesh, Frank et al on getting
an IETF ADSL2 MIB draft going.
Some interesting issues will be
the standing of RFC 2662 for ADSL2 (there are solutions that depend on
approach taken)
and based on an analysis by Rajesh et al at DSLF and on
the draft G.997.1, the likelihood that
channel profiles will be introduced for ADSL2 given the
[up to] 4 bearer channels that could exist.

Umberto Bonollo ([email-masked])
NEC Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2003 6:11
To: Michael Sneed
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Adslmib] Confused about ADSL2 and ADSL2+ Work

Michael,
Let me point out that the G.997.1 update in ITU SG15 is approved now.
It contains all the MIB elements needed for ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2plus.
The DSL Forum has addressed the ADSL2(plus) MIB at the last meeting
and sourced liaison to IETF.
The DSL Forum is also progressing on interoperability testing of ADSL2.
This implies system level MIBs will be needed for deployment soon.
I am puzzled why you think there is not sufficient interest to take the work
into IETF
to "compile" G.997.1 into a useful SNMP MIB (over the next half to full
year?)
Regards,
Frank Van der Putten
ITU-T SG15/Q4 ADSL2(PLUS) editor
DSLForum Board Member

---

From: Rajesh Abbi <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:24:00 -0400

Mike,

The DSL Forum started work on ADSL2/... only in the last (May) meeting.  A new
working-text has been started.  At that time it was premature to communicate much
to the IETF - since we didn't even have the first draft of the working-text.  The
intent is to offer the working-text as a basis for the MIB work in IETF.

In any case, looks like at this time there is already sufficient interest in the IETF
working-group to amend the group charter.  The actual MIB work will of course
have to wait for the DSL Forum input.

I encourage Umberto, Clay, Bob and others who are interested in ADSL2 MIB to
participate in the DSL Forum work in order to expedite this process.

Regards,

Rajesh

---

From: Bob Ray <[email-masked]>
Date: 05 Jun 2003 10:18:05 -0500

> participate in the DSL Forum work in order to expedite this process.

My current employer has no interest in DSL.  They have, however,
graciously allowed me to finish up my work with the IETF adslmib working
group.  As such, I will not be participating in any future DSL-related
activities following completion of my current two drafts.  That is, my
participation will cease when and if the two drafts (vdsl and hc-tc) 
achieve RFC status, which I hope is very soon.

I surely hope someone volunteers to pick up where I leave off.  You get
to visit a bunch of neat places. :)

Regards,
Bob Ray
PESA Switching Systems