Subject: [arp222] New Non-WG Mailing List: [email-masked]

From: IESG Secretary <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:19:22 -0700 (PDT)

A new IETF non-working group email list has been created.

List address: [email-masked]
Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/arp222/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/arp222

Description: This list discusses issues associated with large amount of
virtual machines being introduced to data center. 

Virtual machines allow one physical server to support multiple hosts (20,
30, or hundreds of). As virtual machines are introduced to the Data Center
(DC), the number of hosts within one subnet can grow dramatically.  This
DC growth could tremendously impact to networks and hosts. Data Centers
can span multiple subnets in a single site or multiple sites across a
single AS or multiple ASes.

One issue is frequent ARP requests from hosts. All hosts send out
frequent ARP requests due to their cache being aged out in minutes. With
tens of thousands of hosts (each with a distinct MAC address) in one Data
Center (DC), the amount of ARP packets per second is potentially in the
1,000 to 10,000/second.

For additional information, please contact the list administrators, Linda
Dunbar and Sue Hares.

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:35:13 +1200

I'm not going to join this list, no time, but I would be very
concerned if the work only considered ARP traffic. It's axiomatic
that you also have to consider Neighbor Discovery and Router Advertisement
traffic too. And if people start using IPv6's potential to create
virtual hosts by the million, the problem might be an order of magnitude
worse than ARP.

    Brian

On 2010-07-20 10:19, IESG Secretary wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>

---

From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:49:23 -0400

Brian:

This work is going beyond just ARP to a general solution for ND/RA/ ARP and other Layer2 to Layer 2 information. 

In short, we are looking at trying to connect many areas of Layer 2 across layer 3 infrastructure or many areas of Layer 2 across a L2 provider network.  

We are first trying to define the problem to make sure we've included all the things you mentioned: 

draft-dunbar-arp-for-large-dc-problem-statement-00.txt

Then, we believe we've got a generalized solution that will take care of groups of ARP, DCHP, ND, RA, and future IPv6 additions. 

However, as all good IETF nerds do - we want to make sure we carefully defined the problem. We'd appreciate your comments on the scope. We'd love to hear if we've gotten the right scope for the problem. 

If you have 5 minutes at IETF, we can briefly go through the problems we see. 

Best wishes, 

Sue Hares 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:35 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: New Non-WG Mailing List: [email-masked]

    Brian

---

From: Linda Dunbar <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:04:09 -0500

IPv6 Neighbor Discovery protocol corresponds to a combination of the IPv4's
protocols: Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), ICMP Router Discovery, and
ICMP Redirect. ICMP Router Discovery might not be impacted by the large
amount of virtual hosts in Data Center and Cloud Computing. 

I will add those bullets in the slides so that people can debate which part
of IPv6 ND needs to be addressed. 

Linda Dunbar

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Hares [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:49 AM
To: 'Brian E Carpenter'; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Non-WG Mailing List: [email-masked]

Brian:

This work is going beyond just ARP to a general solution for ND/RA/ ARP and
other Layer2 to Layer 2 information. 

In short, we are looking at trying to connect many areas of Layer 2 across
layer 3 infrastructure or many areas of Layer 2 across a L2 provider
network.  

We are first trying to define the problem to make sure we've included all
the things you mentioned: 

Then, we believe we've got a generalized solution that will take care of
groups of ARP, DCHP, ND, RA, and future IPv6 additions. 

However, as all good IETF nerds do - we want to make sure we carefully
defined the problem. We'd appreciate your comments on the scope. We'd love
to hear if we've gotten the right scope for the problem. 

If you have 5 minutes at IETF, we can briefly go through the problems we
see. 

Best wishes, 

Sue Hares 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:35 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: New Non-WG Mailing List: [email-masked]

    Brian

---

From: Linda Dunbar <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:10:57 -0500

We are going to have ARP222 barBOF at 78th IETF this week. Here is the
detailed information

Thursday

*	11:30 - 13:00 
 <http://tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78Arp222> ARP 222 
 
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-arp-for-large-dc-problem-statement-
00>
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-arp-for-large-dc-problem-statement-0
0 
Room: 2.1 Colorado 
contact  <mailto:[email-masked]>  Linda Dunbar
<mailto:[email-masked]>  Susan Hares) 

Agenda includes:

.          Scalable Address Resolution for Data Center and Cloud Computing -
Problem Statements

-         Linda Dunbar - Huawei 

.          Identity and Addressing for Video Delivery - Problem Statements

-         Kathy McEwen - Iridescent Networks

.          A Scalable Ethernet Architecture for Large Enterprises

-        Changhoon Kim - Microsoft

.          Multi-level Origin-Organized Scalable Ethernet 

-        Malcolm Scott - University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory 

.          Virtual Subnet

-        XiaoHu Xu - Huawei

Best regards, Linda Dunbar

-----Original Message-----
From: IESG Secretary [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 5:19 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: [email-masked]

1,000 to 10,000/second.

Dunbar and Sue Hares.