Subject: Re: [Asrg] New take on emerging idea. (yet another C-R system?)

From: "John Constantinescu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:23:12 -0600

>From: wayne
> > An Idea poped into my head the other day, about E-stamps, and
> > whitelists, and i think i have combined them in a way that truly has a
> > chance to stop spam. I would apreciate any suggestions.
> >
> > my plan is at www.pontifier.com
>
>I suggest that you research previous spam ideas more.  While I didn't
>read ever detail of your plan, this appears to be basically the age-old
>challenge-response system.  This kind of system has been discussed at
>length on this mailing list.

Thankyou Wayne. Indeed I had never herd of Challenge-Reponse systems before.
I did do lots of research on e-stamps, then on basean filters, and through 
that discovered RBLs, and trusted networks. then got pissed off when I found 
out that some of my mail may not get though, even though I don't filter it, 
because someone else probly is.

>If this is not a basic c-r system, please explain why it is different
>than the last half dozen similar proposals.  Otherwise, I doubt too
>many people will bother considering your system.
>-wayne

After searching I find that almost all Challenge response systems I can find 
seem to have a drawback that mine(kind of) sidesteps.
They rely on some kind of standard server generated test like the one used 
by yahoo when you sign up for an email account(obscured character 
recognition). These are annoying, and it is true that some people would view 
it as an impediment to communication.

The minor change which I proposed shifts the burden of challenge formation 
from the server to the user. the challenge has become not just a challenge, 
but a first return COMMUNICATION from the user. And anyone seeking 
COMMUNICATION with the user will have no problem responding to the 
challenge.

I guess the other major problem with Challenge-Response systems is handling 
lists(not sending challenges to them, yet not blocking them either), but I 
think I have that solved as well. I will update the plan as soon as I am 
sure.
www.pontifier.com
-John

>
>
>
>
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:33:26 -0400

There is a company that just released a similar application called Qurb.
(www.qurb.com)

It is very simple and uses a 'known sender' Challenge/Response approach that
challenges any message where the sender hasn't been:

Previously sent to
Previously approved as a sender
Added as a contact in the Outlook contacts list.

It can be defeated, but so far has killed a lot of spam that my other
filtering package (CloudMark aka spamnet, aka Vipul's Razor) didn't catch.

I use those two products in concert, but they only work on newer versions of
Outlook.  You're SOL if you use webmail, Eudora, netscape messenger, Notes,
etc.   Overall, together they do an amazing job for me and I get virtually
no spam, while still receiving the commercial and personal mail I want.
None of the recipients of the challenge have complained about it.

While these methods are fairly effective for single users, they clearly do
not solve the problems of many of those on this board, that is reducing the
volume of spam hitting their servers.

They also need care and feeding and that may be too much for some.

Dave Hendricks

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of John
Constantinescu
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:23 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Asrg] New take on emerging idea. (yet another C-R system?)

---

From: J C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:44:12 -0700

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:23:12 -0600 
John Constantinescu <[email-masked]> wrote:

> The minor change which I proposed shifts the burden of challenge
> formation from the server to the user. the challenge has become not
> just a challenge, but a first return COMMUNICATION from the user. And
> anyone seeking COMMUNICATION with the user will have no problem
> responding to the challenge.

> I guess the other major problem with Challenge-Response systems is
> handling lists(not sending challenges to them, yet not blocking them
> either), but I think I have that solved as well. I will update the
> plan as soon as I am sure.  www.pontifier.com -John

You need to look at TMDA more -- it covers, addresses, and exceeds these
areas.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
[email-masked]               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
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---

From: J C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:51:24 -0700

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:44:12 -0700 
J C Lawrence <J> wrote:

> You need to look at TMDA more -- it covers, addresses, and exceeds
> these areas.

Sorry about that.  I meant it to be off-list but fingered 'R' instead of
'r' in some incomprehensible way.