Subject: Re: [Asrg] New take on emerging idea. (yet another C-R system?)

From: "John Fenley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:43:13 -0600

>From: Chuq Von Rospach <[email-masked]>
>On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 12:37  PM, John Fenley wrote:
>>Am I the only one here that believes that for an e-mail address to be 
>>usefull you must be able to write it down on a piece of paper and give it 
>>to someone? how do you dynamicaly create a consent token on a piece of 
>>paper?
>>
>
>Maybe you don't. But then, there's no assumption here you need one. Perhaps 
>that e-mail you write down is set to go into a "these emails need to be 
>evaluated" folder. Perhaps it's set to do a challenge/response like current 
>whitelists do? You actually have a lot of flexibility -- a system like this 
>doesn't generate a "thing", but gives you the ability to tailor a suite of 
>things to your needs:
>
>the "contact me" address generates a 24 hour token; after taht time, it's 
>rejected.
>
>the address on your business card goes to a "unvalidated but trusted" 
>folder to be looked at -- and the user can accept, reject, send for a C/R, 
>discard, whitelist, whatever.
>
>pull out a pen and make a minor change to the card, and the user now has an 
>address that's pre-whitelisted.
>
>register for Apple eNews with only whitelists the apple.com domain, the 
>first time you get email using that registration token, it changes the 
>whitelist to that address, not the entire domain.
>
>set up your amazon.com account that accepts email from all of amazon.com, 
>but only if the email relays in from a defined netblock.
>
>the nice thing is a system like this can be built simple enough for MY MOM, 
>but can have features that people can use once they figure out they want to 
>use them, but which they aren't required to figure out ahead of time..

If a system works well to begin with: Stops spam, ignores mailing lists, 
allows personal contact, and uses a single address with no modification. why 
would you need customisation features.
In my mind customization features are a symptom of loose thinking: "I don't 
know exactly how this should work, but given all these features they should 
be able to get it to work."
John Fenley

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg

---

From: Chuq Von Rospach <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:26:36 -0700

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 01:43  PM, John Fenley wrote:

> If a system works well to begin with: Stops spam, ignores mailing 
> lists, allows personal contact, and uses a single address with no 
> modification. why would you need customisation features.

because things like "allow personal contact" or "ignores mailing lists" 
are complexities that are going to need flexibility to implement. 
Because some users are going to want it to work the way they want, not 
the way we think they should use it. I really think there's going to be 
a tool here with two modes, a simple mode and a wizard mode. In simple 
mode, it does a few things easy and well. Users who want more control 
can flip a switch and see other options to use.

> In my mind customization features are a symptom of loose thinking: "I 
> don't know exactly how this should work,

none of us know exactly how this works yet, actually, but more 
important, I see it instead as a way to handle a wide variety of needs 
and requirements the way users want them handled. I try to force 
software to do waht customers want the way customers want it done, not 
force customers to do things in ways that make it easy for the 
software...

---

From: J C Lawrence <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:39:53 -0700

On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:43:13 -0600 
John Fenley <[email-masked]> wrote:

> don't know exactly how this should work, but given all these features
> they should be able to get it to work."  

In which case I'm sure you can come up with the following:

  a) A definition of "spam" that will satisfy all the members of this
  list both as to accuracy and content.

  b) A policy for handling spam for an individual's mailbox that will
  satisfy all the members of this list, for their personal addresses,
  role addresses, and corporate/work addresses.

  c) Ditto the population of a random mall in AnyTownEarth.

Different people want different things.  Some of us want very different
things.  Bell curves don't only exist in the middle, and quite
significant (in stature, influence, and numbers) populations often exist
more than a standard deviation out.

Want an example?  

  I do not and will not allow any icon to appear on any desktop I run or
  use.  Not one.  I consider the icon aspect of WIMP (windows icon mouse
  pointer) to be an utterly broken user interface metaphor and so simply
  don't use them.  

I'm a member of a pretty small population there.  <shrug> Happily that
fact is neither a problem or the source of any problems.

Customisation is your friend.  Humans are tool builders, not work
materials.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
[email-masked]               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg