Subject: [AVT] New I-Ds for Ogg technologies (Vorbis over RTP, Ogg file format, Mimetypes)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:36:31 +1100

Hello everybody,

several new I-Ds have been submitted from the Ogg community this week.
The intention of our submissions is to gain IETF standards on the freely
available and open media technologies that are developed in the Ogg
community (http://www.xiph.org/). Required standards embrace things like
container format specifications, rtp transport specifications, and MIME
type specifications. The listed I-Ds are the currently existing
submissions, which we would like to see discussed here. This is also a
request to the Area Directors to progress them onto the standards track.

---

The first two I-Ds relate to a persistent container format that was
specified to hold Internet transportable media data in a simple way.
These should be simple to handle as they have been discussed on this
list before and the format is stable:

1) "The application/ogg Media Type"
Author(s)       : L. Walleij
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-walleij-ogg-mediatype-08.txt

This is an I-D requesting to register "application/ogg" as a mime-type
for any bitstream that conforms to the Ogg bitstream format
specification (see I-D below).

2) "The Ogg encapsulation format version 0"
Author(s)       : S. Pfeiffer
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pfeiffer-ogg-fileformat-01.txt

This I-D specifies the Ogg bitstream format version 0, which is a
general, freely-available encapsulation format for media streams. It is
capable to encapsulate any kind and number of video and audio encoding
formats as well as other data streams in a single bitstream.

---

The next two I-Ds relate to transporting audio data encoded in the
Vorbis format over rtp:

3) "RTP Payload Format for Vorbis Encoded Audio"
Author(s)       : P. Kerr
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kerr-avt-vorbis-rtp-00.txt
        
This document describes a RTP payload format for transporting Vorbis
encoded audio.

4) "The audio/rtp-vorbis MIME Type"
Author(s)       : B. Short
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-short-avt-rtp-vorbis-mime-00.txt
        
This document explains the need for a MIME subtype which identifies a
Vorbis audio payload to be used within a Realtime Transport Protocol
(RTP) bitstream. This document also provides the necessary information
to register
audio/rtp-vorbis as a MIME type.

---

Regards,

Silvia Pfeiffer.
_______________________________________________
Audio/Video Transport Working Group
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt

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From: Allison Mankin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:48:20 -0800

Silvia,

Thank you for the submissions.  We were waiting for a format document
to go with the media type registration (document 2 to go with 
docuement 1) and so I will take these into immediate IESG review now.

Documents 3 and 4 are entirely new to AVT I believe, and so these
are for the working group's discussion.

Allison

> To: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:36:31 +1100
> Subject: New I-Ds for Ogg technologies (Vorbis over RTP, Ogg file format, 
> 
> Hello everybody,
>

---

From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:15:04 -0500

>are for the working group's discussion.

Documents 3 and 4 are extensions of earlier drafts that have been discussed
in AVT. The chairs and authors have been discussing them recently, input on
these from the group would be appreciated.

Colin

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From: Phil Kerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:53:54 +0000 (GMT)

Thanks Colin,

The two new I-Ds (Vorbis RTP and its MIME type) are to be merged into one
document, with the MIME type changing to audio/vorbis.

The next changes to the combined I-D will be to add a missing setup block to the
codebook RTCP message and to add a field to indicate the seq id of the RTP
stream when the new codebook should be applied for decoding.

A new RTCP APP message to cater for stream metadata is also under development.

An I-D to cover TCP over RTP was discussed last month and this is of interest to
the Vorbis RTP draft as it offers a reliable delivery mechanism for the
codebooks, which are critical for stream decoding.  I think it would be good to
review the code book delivery once this new I-D is available, so section 4 may
be subject to a substantial review. 

Regards

Phil

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From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:54:09 -0500

Phil,

This seems like a reasonable plan for completing the drafts. A couple of
comments below.

>stream when the new codebook should be applied for decoding.

Presumably, an initial codebook can be sent as part of the SDP signalling?

>be subject to a substantial review. 

Yes, definitely. The draft should also discuss the congestion control and
reliability requirements for transmission of codebooks. 

Also, is there an associated video codec? 

Colin

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From: Phil Kerr <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Jan 2003 16:18:43 +0000

Colin,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, the initial set of codebooks could be sent using SDP and I'll
investigate this further.  I'll update the draft to highlight this
change together with your suggestions concerning congestion control and
reliability.

Vorbis audio is part of a wider suite of media formats and there are two
video components in development, Theora and Tarkin.  Theora will
probably be the first to reach release-grade and there are discussions
ongoing regarding the appropriate I-Ds to support it.

Regards

Phil

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From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:29:24 -0800

Phil,

>change together with your suggestions concerning congestion control and

Thanks.

>ongoing regarding the appropriate I-Ds to support it.

Okay, good. It's probably worth considering the development of an RTP
payload format reasonably early in the development of the video codec,
to ensure that the result is easy to convey in an efficient manner.

Cheers,
Colin