Subject: Re: CAP-12-e: Alarms and SEQUENCE

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:11:16 -0500

Doug wrote on 10/31/2003 05:16:09 PM:
> Better yet, an example of when MODIFY breaks.
> 
> Take TWO VLARMS that are identical in one component.
> Withou a unique identifier  - you can not uniquly identify  the 2nd 
> instance.

I claim that this is a non-sensical / practical case to use.  (Plus its 
the only one I could think of too.)

We dont allow multiple VDAYLIGHTs or VSTANDARDs with the exact same data 
to be a single VTIMEZONE and yet consider the defintions to be different. 
We do not allow 2 VEVENTs in the same calendar to have the exact same set 
of properties and subcomponents yet call them different VEVENTs.  We even 
said in iCalendar that repeat instances for the same date/time are to be 
treated a single instance.  So why would we now invent this different 
consideration for VALARMs?

Taking a practical look I have to chuckle at the suggestion (not at you 
personally Doug) that a CU would want or actually use 2 identical VALARMs 
yet consider them separate.  In all my C&S time Ive yet to hear of any 
shipping product that allowed the user to create 2 identical alarms that 
were separate nor have I heard of users actually asking for it.

After all, what exactly is the practical use for 2 simultaneous & 
identical AUDIO VALARMs that play the same sound at the same time? Does it 
play louder?  Or is it in Stero vs Mono?

Is there any actual use for having 2 PROCEDURAL alarms that run the exact 
same code at the exact same time? 

What about sending off 2 identical email notices to the exact same set of 
ATTENDEEs at the exact same time?

I dont see how having 2 DISPLAY VALARMs triggering at the same time with 
the same information is really a big ticket item on any users wish list. 

Since we have autorepeating VALARMs (which means the VALARM could repeat, 
say, 1 second later for 15 times if I really really wanted it to) and we 
can have multiple VALARMs on any given entry, I see no real need to have 
multiple identical copies of VALARMs and to change iCalendar. 

Bruce
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From: Doug Royer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:38:17 -0700

[email-masked] wrote:

> I claim that this is a non-sensical / practical case to use.  (Plus 
> its the only one I could think of too.) 

So in other words - you can't make it work.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:32:58 -0500

> So in other words - you can't make it work.

I claim your example is not one thats worth considering because its 
non-realistic.  As I pointed out before its not a feature that exists now 
(unless you've got some product now that has it) because its just not 
something people do in practice.

Please explain the real need or benefit of having two identical VALARMs on 
the same entity that do the exact same thing and repeat the exact same 
number of times??  They are indistinguishable from each other to users 
("Gee was that WAV the 1st AUDIO alarm I set or the 2nd??") so there is no 
benefit in them.

Why would a CU want to have 2 AUDIO alarms that play the exact same WAV at 
the exact same time and autorepeats the same number of times?

Does users really want to have multiple dialogs popup at the exact same 
time with the exact same contents and autorepeat the same number of times?

Who here realistically wants to have an email notice sent multiple times 
at the exact same to the exact same invitees and autorepeat the same 
number of times?

Ive never ever once heard a user say "Gee, I wish I could set 10 alarms 
that all do the exact same thing at the exact same time on this particular 
meeting.  Why cant I?"  Just as in iCalendar we said that all repeat 
instances that have the same date/time values are a single instance I 
claim the same is true for VALARMs.

If your alarm clock at home has 2 alarms on it, do you set both of your 
alarms for the same time in order to avoid sleepting thru that big 
meeting?  Or do you stagger them in case you hit Off instead of Snooze?  I 
for one stagger them, just in case.

Bruce

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From: Mark Smith <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:49:00 -0700

[email-masked] wrote:
> non-realistic.