Subject: [Cellar] Special agenda topics for our Cellar meeting on June 22?

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:58:41 -0500

Dear Cellar,

I am assuming that we'll need some agenda time to talk about any remaining
questions/changes for draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1, currently in AUTH48 with the
RFC Editor.

Are there other topics that I need to put at the head of the agenda?

Best,

Spencer

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 12:33:36 -0500

Dear Cellar,

I didn't hear any special requests for agenda items (although we can
certainly add them if you need to), so I've posted an agenda that looks
like this:

I've tried to use more markup in this agenda than previously, to improve
readability and, honestly, my ability to create new agendas without making
dumb manual editing mistakes). If I went overboard, please tell me, and I
can fix that ...

Talk to you all on Tuesday!

Best,

Spencer

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTime
2021-06-22 21:00 Amsterdam
Note 20:00 UTC
Meeting time is 16:00 NYC
anchored to Amsterdam 13:00 San Francisco
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#administrivia>
Administrivia
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#info>
INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-06 Note
that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#web-conference>WEB
CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com
link at any time.)
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#logistics-for-meeting>Logistics
for Meeting
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#2021-virtual-interim-meeting-dates>2021
virtual interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2021 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/ :::warning Note that we
   do not have a July meeting - (Virtual) IETF 111 will be 2021-07-26 to
   2021-07-30. Qur next meeting will be 2021-08-24 ⚡ :::
   - IETF 111 in July will definitely be virtual.
   - Sometime around 2021-09-28, we’ll see if we want to meet at IETF 112
   on November 6-12, 2021, in person in Madrid.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#shared-comimd-for-notetaking-httpscodimdietforgnotes-cellar-virtual>Shared
COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

   - Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
   edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   - Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#appearin-is-now-called-wherebycom-httpswherebycomcellar-interim>
APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com" (https://whereby.com/cellar-interim)
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#agenda-items>Agenda
Items
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#note-well--httpswwwietforgaboutnote-well>Note
Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#roll-call>Roll
call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   -

Regrets *
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#accept-draft-minutes-from-previous-meeting-attached-below>Accept
draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

   - Any objections?

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#follow-up-on-meetecho>Follow-up
on Meetecho

   - We discussed moving to Meetecho (from whereby.com) at the May meeting,
   and Spencer had an action to check on iOS and Android clients for Meetecho.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#wg-status-update>WG
status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20 was posted 2021-02-23, is now in RFC Editor
   Queue, in AUTH48 (see [AUTH48] below)
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-07 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#milestone-review>Milestone
review:

   - Close to celebrating on FFv1, but we need to get through AUTH48
   - Matroska maybe at the end of Summer 2021? It's closer than we thought
   - FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back
   from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a
   decision to make about FLAC.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#from-the-mailing-list-from-steve-on-ebml-errata>From
the mailing list: From Steve, on EBML errata

   - We are proceeding with a short RFC that UPDATES RFC 8794, not
   replacing that RFC, and this draft will contain only corrections for the
   errata we are aware of.
   - Jerome asked for an example of such an RFC - Spencer suggested
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8540/ on the mailing list ("Subject:
   Sample draft for updating RFC 8794"), with suggestions for how to map that
   example onto the new Cellar draft.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#auth48-for-draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20>AUTH48
for draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20

Email subject: AUTH48 [JM]: RFC 9043 <draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20.txt> NOW
AVAILABLE

Current files from RFC-Editor

   1.

   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.txt
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.pdf
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.html
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.xml
   2.

   This diff shows all changes from the approved Internet-Draft:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-diff.html
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-rfcdiff.html (side by side)
   3.

   This diff shows only the most recent changes:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-lastdiff.html
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-lastrfcdiff.html (side by
   side)
   4.

   This diff compares the submitted and current XML files:
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-xmldiff1.html
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-xmldiff2.html (side by side)

   -

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#ffv1-v4-issues>FFV1
v4 issues

   - We agreed at our previous meeting that we would use work on the
   introduction to the FFV1 v4 document as a way of agreeing on contents for
   FFV1v4, and Jerome said he would start work on the Introduction (added as
   an issue)
   - https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob/master/ffv1-v4-goals.md as our
   current plan
   - Any update?

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#matroska-issues>Matroska
issues

   -

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#flac-issues>FLAC
issues

   -

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#aob>
AOB?

NEXT MEETING 2021-08-24.

<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#notes-from-previous-meeting-for-approval>Notes
from previous meeting for approval
<https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/blob/master/interim-2021-06/agenda.md#cellar----draft-agenda-for-virtual-interim-meeting-1>CELLAR
-- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

May 25, 2021 21:00 Amsterdam *** 20:00 UTC 16:00 NYC 13:00 San Francisco
(*** Time is anchored to Amsterdam)

INFO:
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-05 (***
Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here***)

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com
link at any time.)

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Moritz Bunkus
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Reto Kromer
   - Jerome Martinez
   - Dave Rice
   - Martin Below

Regrets

   - (possibly) Michael Richardson

   1.

   Note Well. https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
   2.

   Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below) objections
   asked for, and none received
   3.

   Logistics for Meeting. 3a) Shared COMIMD for notetaking:
   https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual
   - Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
      edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc. *

   Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

3b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com"

   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

3c) Roll call

3d) One-time Item: Changes to logistics (IRC, Jabber, Whereby, Meetecho ...)

   - Existing IRC server has been "taken over". Are we moving? Not moving
   yet, but we have a candidate server to move to. We can keep both channels
   open, for the time being. Actually using Github for most conversations for
   FFV1 and Matroska.
   - (Is there an iOS or Android app? Spencer will check!)

   1. WG status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20 was posted 2021-02-23, is now in RFC Editor
   Queue
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-16 was posted 2020-12-01, in ID Exists
   (expiring in about a week - Dave submitted a keepalive version on the call)
   - draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists (thank
   you, Dave, for submitting this)
   - draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-07 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists

   1. Milestone review:

   - Matroska maybe at the end of Summer 2021? It's closer than we thought

Action: we're making a lot of progress on this - we just need to figure out
where we are

   -

   We had the big text move this month, We've submitted several issues as a
   part of this with known fixes.
   -

   FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back
   from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a
   decision to make about FLAC.
   -

   FFV1-v4 requires more research, and it is unclear when we will know what
   a realistic goal date is.

   1. 2021 virtual interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2021 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/
   - IETF 111 in July will definitely be virtual.
   - Sometime around 2021-09-28, we’ll see if we want to meet at IETF 112
   on November 6-12, 2021, in person in Madrid.

   1. From the mailing list: From Steve, on EBML errata

   - Spencer thought we submitted errata last time, but
   https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=8794&rec_status=15&presentation=table
doesn't
   show any errata of any status - did this happen?
   - We have 2 merged changes and 2 pending changes in Github
   - In mailing list discussion, we think we have about four pages of text,
   with the identified errata, and the change to IANA instructions
   - Murray said that's likely fine as an Updates RFC, rather than a much
   bigger RFC that replaces RFC 8794
   - Are we OK with producing a short RFC that would update the EBML RFC,
   probably around end-of-summer?
   - Jerome asked for an example of such an RFC - Spencer can provide this.

   1. From the mailing list: From Steve, on Matroska #495 section reordering

   - Steve rebuilt the txt/html files and sent before/after to the mailing
   list
   - Are we all happy with this? We are all happy.
   - Do we need to do anything else?
   - Merged during interim meeting

   1. FFV1 v4 issues

   - Last month, we said we need some working group time to brainstorm on
   v4 - we can do this as a meeting, on the mailing list, or more broadly
   - What would a good plan look like? Can we schedule that time now?
   - Jerome said he would start work on the Introduction (added as an issue)
   - https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob/master/ffv1-v4-goals.md as our
   current plan
   - We need to discuss line by line on the mailing list.

   1. Matroska issues

   - Merged 512.
   - We will experiment with 513 (as in PR).
   - We'll take a littme more time with 511.
   - Merged 489.
   - 487 - adding a sentence that no known Matroska players use these
   elements.
   - Merged 475 - not possible to have values except 1 or 0. Removed
   support for other values in 2004.
   - Merged 498.
   - We note there are elements with ranges but also restrictions. We could
   remove the ranges but then we don't know how to validate values. We'll
   create an issue on this (do restrictions have priority over ranges?)

   1. FLAC issues