Subject: [Cellar] Minimal agenda for our meeting on 8/24/2021

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 21:33:19 -0500

Dear All,

I will be putting together a more familiar agenda for our meeting on
Tuesdays, but here's what I have for the highlights:

   - Michael has asked to step down as Cellar co-chair
   - Murray has answered our question about IANA non-actions
   - Our usual consideration of Github issues.

We'll be able to adjust this agenda at the beginning of the call, of
course.

Best,

Spencer, who is running somewhat later than usual ...

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 12:13:08 -0500

# CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date |Time | Local Times |
|:------:|:-----------:|:------|
|2021-08-24 |21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](
https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)|
| **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam |

## Administrivia

### INFO:
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-07
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

### WEB CONFERENCE:

   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

   THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com
link at any time.)

#### Shared COMIMD for notetaking:
https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual
* Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll
       be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee
       lists, etc.
* Please ask Spencer if you have questions.
:::warning
   The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now.
Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it.
:::

### Logistics for Meeting

#### 2021 virtual interim meeting dates

   * Please note our 2021 dates listed at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/
   * IETF 112 will also be a fully online meeting (announced 2021-08-04),
so **we will not be meeting face-to-face in Madrid, right?**
   * **ACTION:** Co-chairs to propose 2022 meeting schedule in September
meeting, for information and comment.

## Agenda Items

### Note Well:  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

#### Roll call

  Attendees
   * Spencer Dawkins

  Regrets
   *

### News You Can Use

###  WG status update

   * draft-ietf-cellar-codec-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20 was **PUBLISHED AS RFC 9043**
   * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-07 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-tags-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists

###  Milestone review:

   * Matroska maybe at the end of Summer 2021? It's closer than we thought
   * Is it worth publishing an update to ffv1-v4 that includes the goals
we've discussed previously?
   * Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML corrections yet?
(https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
   * FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back
from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a
decision to make about FLAC.

##### Discussion on the call
   *

#### Michael Richardson has asked to step down as co-chair for Cellar,
after years of service in this role.
* We need to have a conversation about succession planning.
* IETF working groups do not name their own leadership - that's an Area
Director responsibity - but ADs make their best choices when they have all
the information we can give them to make choices.

#### Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

 * Any objections? None noted, so approved ...

#### Follow-up on Possible switch to Meetecho for our calls

##### Discussion on previous calls
* We discussed moving to Meetecho (from whereby.com) at the May meeting,
and Spencer had an action to check on iOS and Android clients for Meetecho.
* Spencer verified that Meetecho uses WebRTC, so should work with any
browser, but does **not** currently have an iOS or Android client
available.
*  Michael's experience is that Meetecho REALLY needs to run from a
computer, and not a phone or tablet, just because you need a lot of screen
real estate to keep track of queues, chats, and other stuff.

##### Discussion on the call
   * Is using a computer for Cellar interim meetings a dealbreaker for
anyone?

### FFV1 v4 issues
   * Michael presented slides for
https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob/master/ffv1-v4-goals.md at the IETF 111
Dispatch session.

#### Discussion on the call
   *

### Matroska issues
   *

#### Discussion on the call
   *

### FLAC issues
   *
#### Discussion on the call
   *

## AOB?
   *

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-09-28 :tada:
:::

## Notes from previous meeting for approval

# CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date |Time | Local Times |
|:------:|:-----------:|:------|
|2021-06-22 |21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](
https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)|
| **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam |

## Administrivia

### INFO:
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-06
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

### WEB CONFERENCE:

   https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

   THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com
link at any time.)

   Meetecho:

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=d85e39bd-d5a9-4bc5-a289-1828f8e287f0

### Logistics for Meeting

#### 2021 virtual interim meeting dates

   * Please note our 2021 dates listed at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/
:::warning
Note that we do not have a July meeting - (Virtual) IETF 111 will be
2021-07-26 to 2021-07-30.
Qur next meeting will be 2021-08-24 :zap:
:::
   * IETF 111 in July will definitely be virtual.
   * Sometime around 2021-09-28, we’ll see if we want to meet at IETF 112
on November 6-12, 2021, in person in Madrid.

#### Shared COMIMD for notetaking:
https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

* Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll
       be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee
       lists, etc.
* Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

#### APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com" (
https://whereby.com/cellar-interim)

## Agenda Items

### Note Well:  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

#### Roll call

  Attendees
   * Spencer Dawkins
   * Michael Richardson
   * Jerome Martinez
   * Michael Niedermeier
   * Steve Lhomme

  Regrets
   *  Reto Kromer

### Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

 * Any objections? None noted, so approved ...

#### Follow-up on Meetecho

* We discussed moving to Meetecho (from whereby.com) at the May meeting,
and Spencer had an action to check on iOS and Android clients for Meetecho.
* Spencer verified that Meetecho uses WebRTC, so should work with any
browser, but does **not** currently have an iOS or Android client
available.

#### Discussion on the call
   * Michael's experience is that Meetecho REALLY needs to run from a
computer, and not a phone or tablet, just because you need a lot of screen
real estate to keep track of queues, chats, and other stuff.
   * Is that a dealbreaker for anyone?

###  WG status update

   * draft-ietf-cellar-codec-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20 was posted 2021-02-23, is now in RFC Editor
Queue, in AUTH48 (see [AUTH48] below)
   * draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-17 was posted 2021-05-25, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-flac-01 was posted 2021-04-27, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-07 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists
   * draft-ietf-cellar-tags-06 was posted 2021-04-12, in ID Exists

###  Milestone review:

   * Close to celebrating on FFv1, but we need to get through AUTH48
   * Matroska maybe at the end of Summer 2021? It's closer than we thought
   * FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back
from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a
decision to make about FLAC.

#### Discussion on the call
   * None

### From the mailing list: From Steve, on EBML errata
   * We are proceeding with a short RFC that UPDATES RFC 8794, not
replacing that RFC, and this draft will contain only corrections for the
errata we are aware of.
   * Jerome asked for an example of such an RFC - Spencer suggested
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8540/ on the mailing list ("Subject:
Sample draft for updating RFC 8794"), with suggestions for how to map that
example onto the new Cellar draft.
   * Steve submitted
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/pull/413 to get this
started - so we can reasonably
   1. pick a date for this milestone, and
   2. ask our AD to approve a new milestone (probably "Submit specification
for RFC 8794 corrections to IESG (Standards Track)"), to make sure that we
can publish this specification when that's appropriate.

#### Discussion on the call
   * Jerome has been working on this.
   * We probably shouldn't plan to finish our EBML corrections draft before
we finish Matroska, because we may find things in EBML that need to be
corrected for Matroska.
   * We created the milestone for this document, for our AD to approve.

### AUTH48 for draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20

Email subject: AUTH48 [JM]: RFC 9043 <draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-20.txt> NOW
AVAILABLE

Current files from RFC-Editor
 1.  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.txt
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.pdf
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.html
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043.xml

 1. This diff shows all changes from the approved Internet-Draft:
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-diff.html
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-rfcdiff.html (side by side)

 1. This diff shows only the most recent changes:
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-lastdiff.html
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-lastrfcdiff.html (side by side)

  1. This diff compares the submitted and current XML files:
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-xmldiff1.html
  https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9043-xmldiff2.html (side by side)

#### Discussion on the call
   * We didn't have Dave, but Jerome was also working on these corrections
with the RFC Editor.
   * Jerome thinks that all of the corrections have been agreed by all of
the authors.
   * **ACTION:** The authors should review the text provided by the RFC
Editor and (if no further changes is needed) just reply toall to the AUTH48
email thread and say "I agree with the most recent text provided by the RFC
Editor".
   * Michael and Spencer will be watching that e-mail thread in case the
RFC Ediror identifies any changes that need to be approved by the document
shepherd (which is Michael in this case).

### FFV1 v4 issues
   * We agreed at our previous meeting that we would use work on the
introduction to the FFV1 v4 document as a way of agreeing on contents for
FFV1v4, and Jerome said he would start work on the Introduction (added as
an issue)
   * https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob/master/ffv1-v4-goals.md as our
current plan

#### Discussion on the call
   * We discussed
https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob/master/ffv1-v4-goals.md on the call.
   * What about infrared images? That could immediately interest people
like autonomous vehicle community (who have money).
   * What about signatures for stored media?
     * What is needed here? Integrity, nonrepudiation, timestamps, ... we
may need to talk about specific use cases to understand the requirements.
   * No change to the current document contents for now
   * We can talk about this on the mailing list between now and IETF 111,
and then between IETF 111 and our next working group meeting
   * **ACTION:** Spencer can take the action to do a short presentation in
ARTAREA at IETF 111 in July, showing the proposed contents for FFV1 v4 and
pointing people to Cellar.
   *

### Matroska issues
   * No discussion on the call

### FLAC issues
   * No discussion on the call

## AOB?
   * No discussion on the call

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-08-24 :tada: